Does Painter adjust after the loss?

[proudopete]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

 

[SKYDOG]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

He hasn’t adjusted in 20 years so I wouldn’t expect him to after a loss.

 

[Jbigler1986]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

Not going to happen. I guess his soul searching after the FDU loss didn't find him anything.

 

[rjmpu82]

Turnovers are our Achille's heel. If we limit TOs to 10 or under, shoot 75% from FT line and 35% from 3 pt range, we are not going to lose very often. We lost at NW base on TOs alone. We had 13 more than NW.....that's 13 extra possessions for them and 13 fewer for us.... a total of a 26 possession discrepancy. Tough to win like that.

 

[tjreese]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

If Matt changes the lineup it is after a loss typically. However, I never saw anyone that he would insert for another after last game and so I'm not sure we will see a lineup change. I don't see any changes on D other than maybe more emphasis on getting back on D quicker. The same approach on D is expected. I do think that Braden looks to the basket a bit more...especially to not kick it out when he has a good chance on a drive. The biggest change if we can see it and it may be very subtle is PJ's influence that Braden doesn't have to do everything to create a good shot and that sometimes just starting the rotation is enough and that will create baskets. I think that thought will be carried over to others to read the D and not force things. Lastly, I believe there will be emphasis on ball placement by the passer and better positioning by the receiver for passes. So I really don't see anything changing in most people's eyes.

 

[tjreese]

Turnovers are our Achille's heel. If we limit TOs to 10 or under, shoot 75% from FT line and 35% from 3 pt range, we are not going to lose very often. We lost at NW base on TOs alone. We had 13 more than NW.....that's 13 extra possessions for them and 13 fewer for us.... a total of a 26 possession discrepancy. Tough to win like that.

I'll remind you though that Purdue got 25 more possessions on the boards. Still, the metrics you desire will win a lot of games

 

[northside100]

If Matt changes the lineup it is after a loss typically. However, I never saw anyone that he would insert for another after last game and so I'm not sure we will see a lineup change. I don't see any changes on D other than maybe more emphasis on getting back on D quicker. The same approach on D is expected. I do think that Braden looks to the basket a bit more...especially to not kick it out when he has a good chance on a drive. The biggest change if we can see it and it may be very subtle is PJ's influence that Braden doesn't have to do everything to create a good shot and that sometimes just starting the rotation is enough and that will create baskets. I think that thought will be carried over to others to read the D and not force things. Lastly, I believe there will be emphasis on ball placement by the passer and better positioning by the receiver for passes. So I really don't see anything changing in most people's eyes.

Please stop with the level headed and logical posts. We didn’t play well and lost a game, blow that shit up!

 

[Boiler BCT 93]

Turnovers are our Achille's heel. If we limit TOs to 10 or under, shoot 75% from FT line and 35% from 3 pt range, we are not going to lose very often. We lost at NW base on TOs alone. We had 13 more than NW.....that's 13 extra possessions for them and 13 fewer for us.... a total of a 26 possession discrepancy. Tough to win like that.

Its not a 26 swing. Its just 13

 

[BoilerDeac]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

Will Painter adjust?

Is there beachfront property in Alaska?

 

[boilerzz]

Fortunately, Painter won't overreact like our fan base.

 

[tjreese]

Please stop with the level headed and logical posts. We didn’t play well and lost a game, blow that shit up!

I "try" to be a voice of reason and do so without insults. I truly believe there are many more that read than post and many of those without strong opinions. What I have to be careful of is dominating the conversations when I "try" to give a fuller picture. However, your concise description may be appropriate.

 

[proudopete]

If Matt changes the lineup it is after a loss typically. However, I never saw anyone that he would insert for another after last game and so I'm not sure we will see a lineup change. I don't see any changes on D other than maybe more emphasis on getting back on D quicker. The same approach on D is expected. I do think that Braden looks to the basket a bit more...especially to not kick it out when he has a good chance on a drive. The biggest change if we can see it and it may be very subtle is PJ's influence that Braden doesn't have to do everything to create a good shot and that sometimes just starting the rotation is enough and that will create baskets. I think that thought will be carried over to others to read the D and not force things. Lastly, I believe there will be emphasis on ball placement by the passer and better positioning by the receiver for passes. So I really don't see anything changing in most people's eyes.

I agree that not much will change. We are top 10 in both O and D according to KenPom. I would switch Gillis with TKR in the starting lineup however. Adding that extra shooting around Zach could make the difference we need.

 

[Jbigler1986]

Will Painter adjust?

Is there beachfront property in Alaska?

Yes. Might not be the same beach you were thinking though.

 

[tjreese]

I agree that not much will change. We are top 10 in both O and D according to KenPom. I would switch Gillis with TKR in the starting lineup however. Adding that extra shooting around Zach could make the difference we need.

I don't expect any changes. I expect Trey to start and Matt to ride as a starter deeper into the season with anticipation that more time is needed. I could be wrong on that as it is just a guess, but Matt obviously has thought of what he would like to have at his arsenal for a few months if he can get there. I do think Mason is going to get plenty of minutes as will Caleb when rebounding and more D is needed. However, as stated before Cam getting minutes instead of Ethan after Lance fouled out was not only a surprise, but an indicator that Cam is getting more trust from the coaches.

 

[BoilerNGold013]

The crazy thing is I dont think there are many answers on defense other than guys playing hard. The scheme is designed with edey to give up the midrange. Guards can still be more agressive but i honestly dont know what other defensive adjustments can be made other than extreme things that i know painter wont do like a zone or pressing full court or doubling buie before he can get into the pick and roll.

I actually saw the most improvements (that I think painter will do) to be had on offense and all of them for braden:

1) take layups when available and do not kick out for 3
2) practise hard hedging bigs and work on splitting that double team
3) dont abandon the transition game and stop crossing half court with 20 sec left on the shot clock when the game reaches 10 minutes and under. Be agressive ALL GAME!!

I honestly dont know how to stop the turnovers. When your best player is a center you are going to have some turnovers. Under 10 per game is a great target but I dont have action items that will reduce them.

 

[qazplm]

If Paint makes adjustments after the loss, what do you think they will be?

To me, turnovers is this teams biggest flaw but, what can be done to get them to a reasonable level?

I also think we need to make some adjustments on the defensive end. Teams target our guards and that needs to be addressed.

I can see Painter changing the starting lineup a bit as well.

Shooters need to shoot better and the free throws is a concern there.

What are the answers here?

When he makes adjustments it usually involves changing the starters. I suspect we won't see TKR starting in the near future.

 

[tjreese]

The crazy thing is I dont think there are many answers on defense other than guys playing hard. The scheme is designed with edey to give up the midrange. Guards can still be more agressive but i honestly dont know what other defensive adjustments can be made other than extreme things that i know painter wont do like a zone or pressing full court or doubling buie before he can get into the pick and roll.

I actually saw the most improvements (that I think painter will do) to be had on offense and all of them for braden:

1) take layups when available and do not kick out for 3
2) practise hard hedging bigs and work on splitting that double team
3) dont abandon the transition game and stop crossing half court with 20 sec left on the shot clock when the game reaches 10 minutes and under. Be agressive ALL GAME!!

I honestly dont know how to stop the turnovers. When your best player is a center you are going to have some turnovers. Under 10 per game is a great target but I dont have action items that will reduce them.

perhaps the only thing in the scheme was to try to prevent Boo from getting the ball? You still had the problem of fatigue with Braden to do that. Perhaps a better study of why Lance got in foul trouble since we know losing him was problematic. If Matt played zone could you imagine the potential problems with a team that shot 50% behind the arc?

 

[Heads up BOILER]

I'll remind you though that Purdue got 25 more possessions on the boards. Still, the metrics you desire will win a lot of games

25 - 17 = 8 easy math says we wasted most of the extra possessions created on the boards unfortunately. Statics show that they actually had 6 more shot attempts than we did, NW 31/66 Pur 20/60 and their percentage made was higher both from 3 and overall. We made up some of the difference from the foul line although we didn’t have as much of a foul differential as we are used to. We took 9 more foul shots and made a higher percentage.

 

[Do Dah Day]

If Matt changes the lineup it is after a loss typically. However, I never saw anyone that he would insert for another after last game and so I'm not sure we will see a lineup change. I don't see any changes on D other than maybe more emphasis on getting back on D quicker. The same approach on D is expected. I do think that Braden looks to the basket a bit more...especially to not kick it out when he has a good chance on a drive. The biggest change if we can see it and it may be very subtle is PJ's influence that Braden doesn't have to do everything to create a good shot and that sometimes just starting the rotation is enough and that will create baskets. I think that thought will be carried over to others to read the D and not force things. Lastly, I believe there will be emphasis on ball placement by the passer and better positioning by the receiver for passes. So I really don't see anything changing in most people's eyes.

Totally agree ... If I'm the coach of a team that got a #1 seed last year, regardless of the outcome, and a team that won a STACKED tournament, regardless of the last game, do I make major changes? Small ones, just as I would make after a win, but not major.

 

[Do Dah Day]

The crazy thing is I dont think there are many answers on defense other than guys playing hard. The scheme is designed with edey to give up the midrange. Guards can still be more agressive but i honestly dont know what other defensive adjustments can be made other than extreme things that i know painter wont do like a zone or pressing full court or doubling buie before he can get into the pick and roll.

I actually saw the most improvements (that I think painter will do) to be had on offense and all of them for braden:

1) take layups when available and do not kick out for 3
2) practise hard hedging bigs and work on splitting that double team
3) dont abandon the transition game and stop crossing half court with 20 sec left on the shot clock when the game reaches 10 minutes and under. Be agressive ALL GAME!!

I honestly dont know how to stop the turnovers. When your best player is a center you are going to have some turnovers. Under 10 per game is a great target but I dont have action items that will reduce them.

Excellent comments ... telling Braden to take the damned shot over passing behind his shoulders would reduce a couple of turnovers. A shot with Edey under the basket is often an offensive put back ... a lot better than a turnover

 

[tjreese]

25 - 17 = 8 easy math says we wasted most of the extra possessions created on the boards unfortunately. Statics show that they actually had 6 more shot attempts than we did, NW 31/66 Pur 20/60 and their percentage made was higher both from 3 and overall. We made up some of the difference from the foul line although we didn’t have as much of a foul differential as we are used to. We took 9 more foul shots and made a higher percentage.

the stats won't reflect shots attempted when fouled. Turnovers probably have a higher percent of scoring than offensive boards. Even with the turnovers and having been stated many times...they shoot a normal percent and Purdue wins

 

[dlaird8]

If Purdue limits turnovers to 10 or less they won’t get beat. It’s literally down to our turnovers.

 

[Gman544]

They have to shoot better than 15% as they did last year in losses.

 

[Carlboiler]

I think myles Colvin will be getting more minutes

 

[tjreese]

perhaps the only thing in the scheme was to try to prevent Boo from getting the ball? You still had the problem of fatigue with Braden to do that. Perhaps a better study of why Lance got in foul trouble since we know losing him was problematic. If Matt played zone could you imagine the potential problems with a team that shot 50% behind the arc?

@SKYDOG @Do Dah Day Actually been thinking a bit more and the next time I think I would REALLY overplay his right hand...enough that he cannot bring the ball to his his right arm without putting it where I can get to it. Obviously he can go left. He isn't going to shoot a 3 with his left and he isn't going to be too far from the rim to be effective with his left...and I think Zach provides a big enough obstacle that his left is not good enough to be effective. That said, another defender must get the weakside board and battle NW's Big for the board.

Caught a few minutes of video at the end. two turnovers feeding post. Zach is fatigued or they probably don't happen (They wore him out with three bodies). In the middle of the lane Zach lets the ball get too close to his body before catching it. Had he met the ball a bit it probably isn't tipped(fatigue). Fletcher feed that was tipped. Mostly really bad angle and distance for Fletcher, but compounding it was Zach starting his drop step to the basket before the ball came which opened up his body more for the tipped ball. I blame the angle mostly for that turnover. NONE were caused by the defense...all were poor execution most likely due to fatigue. Braden's charge where he left his feet on the pass to Mason. I missed this originally as well. Braden jumps up to see over the defense and actually scans the floor a bit over the defense to two players and decides while up in the air to hit Mason. I didn't catch him jumping up to see a different section of the court. I just thought he jumped up to pass to Mason. Replay shows his head scanning the court for the best option.

 

[Erock_94]

Don't think he will make any changes as we are just fine with wash rinse and repeat every year.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

@SKYDOG @Do Dah Day Actually been thinking a bit more and the next time I think I would REALLY overplay his right hand...enough that he cannot bring the ball to his his right arm without putting it where I can get to it. Obviously he can go left. He isn't going to shoot a 3 with his left and he isn't going to be too far from the rim to be effective with his left...and I think Zach provides a big enough obstacle that his left is not good enough to be effective. That said, another defender must get the weakside board and battle NW's Big for the board.

Caught a few minutes of video at the end. two turnovers feeding post. Zach is fatigued or they probably don't happen (They wore him out with three bodies). In the middle of the lane Zach lets the ball get too close to his body before catching it. Had he met the ball a bit it probably isn't tipped(fatigue). Fletcher feed that was tipped. Mostly really bad angle and distance for Fletcher, but compounding it was Zach starting his drop step to the basket before the ball came which opened up his body more for the tipped ball. I blame the angle mostly for that turnover. NONE were caused by the defense...all were poor execution most likely due to fatigue. Braden's charge where he left his feet on the pass to Mason. I missed this originally as well. Braden jumps up to see over the defense and actually scans the floor a bit over the defense to two players and decides while up in the air to hit Mason. I didn't catch him jumping up to see a different section of the court. I just thought he jumped up to pass to Mason. Replay shows his head scanning the court for the best option.

Good call outs. Braden’s jump pass got him into trouble and hurt the team in a big spot with that TO. Hopefully, he learns finally. Loyers entry pass at the end of Ot was a big head scratcher, he caught it and immediately tossed it in to Zach. Maybe that’s what the play called for, but it was an awful angle for post entry. (Hindsight here) if he takes two dribbles left or passes to Braden in the corner (there was around 20-25 secs left still), Zach easily seals his man and the defender either fouls Zach or Zach gets an easy 2.

The fatigued factor you mentioned is interesting, and I think definitely came into play when Braden got called for a travel late in the game after getting bumped. Although the refs had been calling the at type of foul all night, I feel it was a bit out of character for Braden to try and sell that type of foul in crunch time and that close to the sideline. But I think like you said, fatigue came into play and that’s why he may have attempted that type of play.

Good news is that it’s early and we can correct this and if we don’t, we will get killed by Iowa, Bama and Arizona. We can’t hide these type of things like last year and still win in December like we did vs Nebraska and Davidson. Hopefully, the guys correct it and do better. Interested to see how we close out 2023.

 

[tjreese]

Good call outs. Braden’s jump pass got him into trouble and hurt the team in a big spot with that TO. Hopefully, he learns finally. Loyers entry pass at the end of Ot was a big head scratcher, he caught it and immediately tossed it in to Zach. Maybe that’s what the play called for, but it was an awful angle for post entry. (Hindsight here) if he takes two dribbles left or passes to Braden in the corner (there was around 20-25 secs left still), Zach easily seals his man and the defender either fouls Zach or Zach gets an easy 2.

The fatigued factor you mentioned is interesting, and I think definitely came into play when Braden got called for a travel late in the game after getting bumped. Although the refs had been calling the at type of foul all night, I feel it was a bit out of character for Braden to try and sell that type of foul in crunch time and that close to the sideline. But I think like you said, fatigue came into play and that’s why he may have attempted that type of play. I should add that I have wished for a few years to dribble into a pass at times to get a better angle

Good news is that it’s early and we can correct this and if we don’t, we will get killed by Iowa, Bama and Arizona. We can’t hide these type of things like last year and still win in December like we did vs Nebraska and Davidson. Hopefully, the guys correct it and do better. Interested to see how we close out 2023.

AS I said though Braden was in the thick of trees and jumped up not to pass to Mason perhaps, but you can see his head turning while up in the air... someone but video doesn't show it probably around the opposite elbow but behind the arc...and then turns his head back and passes to Mason. He has had trouble leaving his feet in the past, but I understand this one better than some others. Yes, Fatigue played a roll in a lot of things relative to passing and catching as well. If you have video you can see the horrible angle and distance as well as Zach not sealing his man away from the pass due to opening his body too soon look for the ball and then no doubt dunking it. I thought at the time and don't know any different that Braden was trying to make the ref make a call on the travel. Braden is usually pretty good at the line. I can't recall if Fletchers bump by their 5 (Pearson?) happened before or after Braden's.

Few teams will have the bodies to keep throwing at Zach as NW and of course most games are not going to have Lance gone and Braden and Zach playing so many minutes. It is amazing that Zach could play that long...but he did miss shots he normally makes. The stars aligned right for the results to end as they did for a few possessions. FWIW, I have long advocated a dribble if necessary to get the angle since this has happened with quite a few players over the years.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Turnovers are our Achille's heel. If we limit TOs to 10 or under, shoot 75% from FT line and 35% from 3 pt range, we are not going to lose very often. We lost at NW base on TOs alone. We had 13 more than NW.....that's 13 extra possessions for them and 13 fewer for us.... a total of a 26 possession discrepancy. Tough to win like that.

While TOs are a problem, your math does not add up. You can't double the numbers. It's simply 13 (actually 14) extra possessions. Not 26 (or 28). Also you don't take account for the offensive rebound advantage that we had.

That being said, the TO discrepancy was a big key, especially since they led to some NW runouts.

 

[tjreese]

While TOs are a problem, your math does not add up. You can't double the numbers. It's simply 13 (actually 14) extra possessions. Not 26 (or 28). Also you don't take account for the offensive rebound advantage that we had.

That being said, the TO discrepancy was a big key, especially since they led to some NW runouts.

Had Purdue played smart and hard when up 14 for a few minutes longer and blew the lead to 20 or more I don't think a lot of the issues that surfaced would have happened. More desperation might have set in for NW and Purdue would have had a large enough cushion to hold off some runs. Maybe it wasn't possible, but it does seem like Purdue as does so many teams play the opposition instead of the game. We see human nature at play. That said...give NW credit for hanging in there when down, knowing it was early and 14 points is nothing to overcome that early in a game.

 

[LousiBFree]

Any changes would need to focus on reducing turnovers and hitting open shots. Not sure who we insert to make that happen.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Any changes would need to focus on reducing turnovers and hitting open shots. Not sure who we insert to make that happen.

Same problems every season. It’s the way the roster is constructed. It’s not gonna change unless lineups that allow more spacing are used.

 

[LousiBFree]

PS: The thing that is egregious about Matt's failure to adjust his approach is not working on some form of zone defense as an option. Not suggesting it had anything to do with this loss, but it could certainly change the flow of the opposing offense when needed.

 

[Jbigler1986]

PS: The thing that is egregious about Matt's failure to adjust his approach is not working on some form of zone defense as an option. Not suggesting it had anything to do with this loss, but it could certainly change the flow of the opposing offense when needed.

You aren't allowed to say that on this board. But I do agree. Gotta throw in some kind of wrinkle to mess with their flow. If it didn't work either then try something else. But not making any changes at all is ridiculous.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Any changes would need to focus on reducing turnovers and hitting open shots. Not sure who we insert to make that happen.

Comparing the first 8 games last year to this year:

Pts/Game - 77 -> 84 (we have seen TJ point out we are playing at a faster pace with more possessions this year)
FG% - 47% - > 49%
3P% - 34% -> 41% (we have made 7 more and taken 12 less from previous year)
FT% - 78% -> 70% (we have taken 52 more FTs so far)
Rebounding - About the same as last year
Assists - About the same as last year
Steals - About the same as last year
Blocks - 30 -> 40
Turnovers - 10.5/game - > 12.75 game
Player Fouls - About the same as last year

Definitely need to clean up the TO game and hit FTs at a higher clip (good news = these are able to be fixed). However, we are shooting 3s a whole lot better than last year. If we all of a sudden start shooting like last year over the next month, then I'll start to worry. But I'll chalk this NW game up as a poor shooting performance. Let's see how the team shoots the next few games.

 

[tjreese]

Comparing the first 8 games last year to this year:

Pts/Game - 77 -> 84 (we have seen TJ point out we are playing at a faster pace with more possessions this year)
FG% - 47% - > 49%
3P% - 34% -> 41% (we have made 7 more and taken 12 less from previous year)
FT% - 78% -> 70% (we have taken 52 more FTs so far)
Rebounding - About the same as last year
Assists - About the same as last year
Steals - About the same as last year
Blocks - 30 -> 40
Turnovers - 10.5/game - > 12.75 game
Player Fouls - About the same as last year

Definitely need to clean up the TO game and hit FTs at a higher clip (good news = these are able to be fixed). However, we are shooting 3s a whole lot better than last year. If we all of a sudden start shooting like last year over the next month, then I'll start to worry. But I'll chalk this NW game up as a poor shooting performance. Let's see how the team shoots the next few games.

12 TOs is probably a very good number for a goal. Playing a bit faster tends to increase turnovers as does a Big having the ball in his hands more than most teams. I think Purdue can win a LOT of games having 12 turn overs or less...and/or shooting 7 or 8 threes out of 20 attempts.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I think myles Colvin will be getting more minutes

As of now, that would not solve the problem with Purdue's defense.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

As of now, that would not solve the problem with Purdue's defense.

If Myles could give us somewhere between 8-12 solid min per game by being able to guard and be a threat to shoot/score by March, I think that'd be really beneficial for the team. Hopefully, Heide will be the same, if not see more mins than that by March.

That said, we still need to throw them to the fire (like Heide on Buie). They need that type of experience to be ready later in the year. Just remember for all the good and potential we see in those two, we also need to live with the bad/mistakes at times. Hopefully, by March there will be a whole lot more of good than bad as these two will be key off the bench if we want to make a deep run.

 

[SunnyFL24]

I agree that not much will change. We are top 10 in both O and D according to KenPom. I would switch Gillis with TKR in the starting lineup however. Adding that extra shooting around Zach could make the difference we need.

Totally agree!!!

 

[BoilerAndy]

If Myles could give us somewhere between 8-12 solid min per game by being able to guard and be a threat to shoot/score by March, I think that'd be really beneficial for the team. Hopefully, Heide will be the same, if not see more mins than that by March.

That said, we still need to throw them to the fire (like Heide on Buie). They need that type of experience to be ready later in the year. Just remember for all the good and potential we see in those two, we also need to live with the bad/mistakes at times. Hopefully, by March there will be a whole lot more of good than bad as these two will be key off the bench if we want to make a deep run.

Yep. But you don't throw players into a tight game when you KNOW they will make mistakes. It will guarantee a loss and won't be good for their confidence.

Not that he cares, but if Painter had played Colvin when the game was on the line, people here would have been all over his "stupid" substitutions. Colvin should be ready for games like this before the year is over, but he isn't ready now.