Anti-gay bill may cost Purdue talent.

[GMM]

At least you admit your ignorance

See here. There have been other cases and there will be other cases given the intolerant nature of the left.

Have you really not heard of these cases? If so you have terribly biased news sources. These stories have been posted on this message board before. Did you miss them?

 

[Purdue85]

Originally posted by kescwi:
As usual you offer nothing but regurgitation of "conservative" airwaves chatter. I wonder if you even understand the meaning of what you say.

Ditto.. more radical leftist bilge from you.

What's worse, you don't want to understand anything that threatens your cocoon.

 

[kescwi]

Re: At least you admit your ignorance

Sure I have heard about them, how does this bill remedy those situations?

 

[kescwi]

yawn

 

[qazplm]

Re: probably the part

discrimination.

 

[Purdue85]

Originally posted by kescwi:
yawn

Uh-huh... if it's not supported by MSNBC, you don't buy it.

 

[qazplm]

Christianity has roughly 2 billion followers

somehow you might need to come up with just a wee more people than the number in that room before you can "tie it to Christianity."

Do you tie all of Islam to the acts of a few terrorists?

 

[qazplm]

what other kinds of laws

do those states have that Indiana does not have that makes the Indiana law even more unnecessary?

 

[Purdue85]

Re: probably the part

Originally posted by qazplm:
discrimination.

where.

 

[kescwi]

Re: what other kinds of laws

I wouldn't know.

All I want is one person to stand up and show why those who think this law allows discrimination are wrong, other than saying Clinton signed something similar, 19 other states...

If those examples above, none of which come from Indiana, are why it's needed than how does this law correct the problem?

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally posted by ecouch:
The bill was conceived, authored, and voted on by followers of Jesus Christ. Some have cited him as inspiration for needing such legislation.

Here is a picture of the private, invitation only, bill signing. This legislation is tied to Christianity, there is no way to get around that.

Fair enough. I know that the main supporters/proponents of this bill are Christians (though I would argue that they cannot lay claim to the title "Followers of Jesus" - and there is a difference). Still, they do not represent the entirety of the Christian faith. To suggest that everyone who calls themselves a follower of Jesus is like those who supported this bill is akin to suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists because a minority are actually terrorists.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by Beeazlebub:

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by ecouch:
A respected professor at Purdue is looking to get out of Indiana after the followers of Jesus Christ passed a bill making it legal to refuse service to gay folk.

Seriously, lumping all followers of Christ into people who support this bill is just as inflammatory.

I would wager all of those who passed this bill identify as followers of Jesus Christ, and I didn't interpret the above statement as a generalization of all Christians.

A snipe at the hypocrisy of many conservative "Christ followers"? Absolutely.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Ya'll need to look in the mirror.

 

[Beeazlebub]

Originally posted by ecouch:

A respected professor at Purdue is looking to get out of Indiana after the followers of Jesus Christ passed a bill making it legal to refuse service to gay folk.

Seriously, lumping all followers of Christ into people who support this bill is just as inflammatory.

I would wager all of those who passed this bill identify as followers of Jesus Christ, and I didn't interpret the above statement as a generalization of all Christians.

A snipe at the hypocrisy of many conservative "Christ followers"? Absolutely.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Ya'll need to look in the mirror.

I guess I don't understand why categorizing those who perpetuated and support this bill as predominantly self-described "followers of Christ" is inflammatory. Of course there are many others who would similarly align with that label who vehemently disagree with the passage of this bill, but even they wouldn't make the argument that the law's roots aren't nurtured by a fundamental interpretation of religious text, would they?

As far as pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting such a bill while at the same time self-identifying as a follower of Christ, isn't that exactly what PastorJoe did in this same thread? I assume that his idea of living a Christ-like life does not include passing laws that may be used to discriminate against minorities. I certainly find that progressive interpretation much more palatable than the fundamentalist view.

As an atheist, it bothers the hell out of me when religious interpretation worms its way into laws and policies, and I would hope most religious folks agree with me.

 

[Boiler79]

Did he mention the difference in Illinois is that they ban discrimination based on sexual orientation? Indiana has no such ban and the writers of the law refused to add LBGT protection to it.

 

[kescwi]

How do you mean that? Christians shouldn't throw stones at gays or people shouldn't throw stones at Christian for throwing stones at gays?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[kescwi]

I'm not going to be a church apologist here but it's interesting that at best I see maybe two non Franciscan priests/nuns in that photo, can't tell what exactly those on the right are, but appear Franciscan. There are five catholic diocese in Indiana, why so few priests and nuns and so many Franciscans?

For none Catholics, Franciscans are an order that does not really answer to the bishop of the diocese they reside in. But they are deeply involved in social justice, like healthcare.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by kescwi:
How do you mean that? Christians shouldn't throw stones at gays or people shouldn't throw stones at Christian for throwing stones at gays?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

No one is without sin, and I'm not talking about apostasy nor being gay. Everyone has moral flaws in the eyes of someone else, and most are not morally perfect even in their own.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[kescwi]

I couldn't agree with that more.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[qazplm]

Re: what other kinds of laws

Anti gay discrimination laws.....the kind Indiana does not have which means no bakers were ever in danger.

 

[ecouch]

Well, that is obvious. That doesn't mean your views are free from criticism.

In addition, John never wrote that and Jesus never said that. It was added many years later. What it isn't, is a blanket shutdown tactic of criticism or analysis. It isn't good philosophy and taken to extreme cripples discussion and the subsequent justice. In other words, it has no place in this conversation. Just like the no true Scotsman reply.

Your response reads like white noise.

This post was edited on 3/28 8:07 PM by ecouch

 

[BoilerGrad02]

Re: what other kinds of laws

It was completely unnecessary but Pence wanted to make a name for himself with the far right, instead he's killed any chance of his political success at a national level.

The guy is completely tone deaf if he didn't see this damaging Indiana's image and economy but I heard him talk about entitlement reform (something I support) years ago and was dumbfounded on how he lacked even a rudimentary understanding of finance and economics so I'm not all that surprised he would make such a stupid and destructive decision.

His whole selling point on himself is that he's ultra-religious and looks to the bible to shape his decisions and that's about it. Nothing of substance for people that don't believe a 2000 year old book that is full of bat $#!& crazy views (but these bible thumpers like to cherry pick passages and conveniently forget about the atrocities it states) should shape a modern society.

 

[ecouch]

Interestingly, Pence's office said they would not identify anyone in the picture for fears that they would receive backlash. One fellow did step forward and identify himself. In the back resides Reverend Larry Gember of St. James Lutheran Church in Greenfield, Indiana.

Rev. Larry Gember

 

[gr8indoorsman]

What are my views? Does it matter who wrote it? Is it wrong? Nope.

You're running around criticizing Christians for some perceived slight that most Christians probably oppose.

Anyway, I don't care as this whole discussion and outrage is overblown, IMO, and I haven't lived nor paid taxes in IN for 15 years. I live in a liberal haven where we all hold hands, there is no race or religious, or sexual discrimination (because, you know, you can legislate away free thought) and we all get along as the state slowly goes broke...

You guys have fun with your fifteen minutes of the rest of the country pretending to give a shit about the state.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ecouch]

Most Christians oppose this? Have extremists managed to win elections in both the house and senate, securing a majority, along with the governorship? Holy shit!

Your attempts to characterize this as some far out view, outside of modern Christianity, is laughable. This is Christianity that has been practiced for centuries. I hope getting your jabs in about fly over country make you feel better. Meanwhile there actual humans, deserving of compassion, that are suffering in Indiana because of this legislation.

 

[HartPU]

Re: At least you admit your ignorance

Originally posted by kescwi:
Sure I have heard about them, how does this bill remedy those situations?

Because it protects those business owners. What don't you understand about it?

 

[kescwi]

How does it protect them? What don't you get about the question?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Mobes]

Actually, it DOES establish separation between church and state by not having a national church like the Church of England tied to the British Crown. That was a MAJOR point for the Founding Fathers.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by ecouch:
Most Christians oppose this? Have extremists managed to win elections in both the house and senate, securing a majority, along with the governorship? Holy shit!

Your attempts to characterize this as some far out view, outside of modern Christianity, is laughable. This is Christianity that has been practiced for centuries. I hope getting your jabs in about fly over country make you feel better. Meanwhile there actual humans, deserving of compassion, that are suffering in Indiana because of this legislation.

It is not the Christianity I practice. Watch out for that Muslim and his bomb vest and that black guy who's about to stab you, you liberal, union-loving, money mooching tenured teacher.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by gr8indoorsman:

Originally posted by ecouch:
Most Christians oppose this? Have extremists managed to win elections in both the house and senate, securing a majority, along with the governorship? Holy shit!

Your attempts to characterize this as some far out view, outside of modern Christianity, is laughable. This is Christianity that has been practiced for centuries. I hope getting your jabs in about fly over country make you feel better. Meanwhile there actual humans, deserving of compassion, that are suffering in Indiana because of this legislation.

It is not the Christianity I practice. Watch out for that Muslim and his bomb vest and that black guy who's about to stab you, you liberal, union-loving, money mooching tenured teacher.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Suffering?

My heart bleeds. Has there been a case of discrimination yet? Wow is all of us!!
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ecouch]

Okay. I thought you were above this. This is GMM level. Have a good night.

This conversation is more difficult than wanting ND to beat UK.

This post was edited on 3/28 10:38 PM by ecouch

 

[Purdue85]

Re: what other kinds of laws

Originally posted by BoilerGrad02:
It was completely unnecessary but Pence wanted to make a name for himself with the far right, instead he's killed any chance of his political success at a national level.

The guy is completely tone deaf if he didn't see this damaging Indiana's image and economy but I heard him talk about entitlement reform (something I support) years ago and was dumbfounded on how he lacked even a rudimentary understanding of finance and economics so I'm not all that surprised he would make such a stupid and destructive decision.

His whole selling point on himself is that he's ultra-religious and looks to the bible to shape his decisions and that's about it. Nothing of substance for people that don't believe a 2000 year old book that is full of bat $#!& crazy views (but these bible thumpers like to cherry pick passages and conveniently forget about the atrocities it states) should shape a modern society.

The Christian bashing in this thread is duly noted.

And coming from the "tolerant" crowd, as well.

Tolerant, as long as people agree with them...

 

[kescwi]

Re: what other kinds of laws

Do you have anything to add other than what you have heard "conservative" bloggers, radio host, Fox commentators... say.

Again, how exactly does this law restore the religious freedom of Christian business owners?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Originally posted by ecouch:
Okay. I thought you were above this. This is GMM level. Have a good night.

This conversation is more difficult than wanting ND to beat UK.

This post was edited on 3/28 10:38 PM by ecouch

I thought you were above applying broad stereotypes to singly-related groups as well, but I was wrong too. Maybe you missed the irony?

You're a bit over emotional about something that won't impact anyone since it is probably going to be overturned because of the backlash. And that's too bad. If the state wants it, they should be able to have it without a bunch of people who don't live there impacting the decision. That's why we have states.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

Originally posted by ecouch:
Most Christians oppose this? Have extremists managed to win elections in both the house and senate, securing a majority, along with the governorship? Holy shit!

Your attempts to characterize this as some far out view, outside of modern Christianity, is laughable. This is Christianity that has been practiced for centuries. I hope getting your jabs in about fly over country make you feel better. Meanwhile there actual humans, deserving of compassion, that are suffering in Indiana because of this legislation.

I think you're right that Christianity has taken this view for much of its history. However, the tide is beginning to turn. Is it shameful that some (far too many) think that the way of Jesus includes discrimination and exclusion? Absolutely. Do all Christians think that way? Absolutely not (hence why I keep making a pest of myself).

There was a time when Christian churches used the Bible to argue in favor of slavery. That has changed, but it was not an overnight change. Now, we look back on the church's support for slavery with shame. The same will happen with the church and the LGBTQ community. Eventually, we will come to our senses and recognize that grace trumps all.

The Christian church is going to change its view when its younger generations takes the lead. What you're seeing now is the last gasp of the hardline fundamentalists who refuse to change...ever.

 

[kescwi]

I wonder if not listing names has more to do with it highlighting the lack of well known mainstream Christian leaders and clerics showing support.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[GMM]

Then paste the text that says "separation of church and state". If it was such a "MAJOR point" then why didn't they put it in the constitution?

Too many people seem to think the phrase means a total separation of religion and public life. False. What's in the constitution is a restriction on government from interfering with religious freedom. Not a restriction on religion affecting public policy.

 

[qazplm]

no it doesn't

gays are not protected from discrimination in Indiana.

They weren't before, they aren't now.

So business owners were ALREADY FREE to not bake a cake for gay wedding.

 

[qazplm]

Re: probably the part

lol do you have that disease where you can't remember anything five minutes after you hear/read it?

 

[qazplm]

exactly

this is a last gasp...it happens every single time there is progress forward. This is George Wallace standing on the steps of the schoolhouse.

The moment the courts add gays to the protected classes, and/or Congress passes a bill adding gays to public accommodation laws...and one/both of those things will happen sooner or later, bills like these become useless for their intended purpose.

 

[qazplm]

How can there be a case

when Indiana has never had laws protecting gays from discrimination??