Will Purdue Ever Become An Elite Basketball School?

[BoilerInChiTown]

I'm hopeful that we will be national champion or at least reach the final four(s) and become an elite program once and for all in the not too distance future. Purdue has always been a respectable basketball program/school, but we never seem to get over the hump since the inception of the single elimination NCAA tournament.

I was in school when Keady was the head coach, watch CMP and the Big Dog played. We even had a decent football program with some good players like Mike Alstott. I like CMP and think he is hard working and respectable coach, but I'm not sure about his recruiting skills. To me, in order for the Purdue to take the next step we must able to recruit at a very high level and on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, we will not able to compete in recruiting with the like of MSU until we have much more success in the NCAA tournaments.

If CMP is the coach that will take us there, he must have someone on his staff that could connect with these top recruits. He does not seems to have the right approach, personality etc. and does not seems to have the right person on his staff currently that could bring in those top recruits. Success in the NCAA requires some lucks, good players and good coaching. It's obvious, that this year will be CMP's best year to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament in the next several years. Last year was very good team that could have gone deep, but we didn't have any luck or very good coaching. The biggest problem was that we didn't have the guards plays, but the coaching job CMP did at the end of the game was almost unexcusable. He seems to have panic, didn't get the ball inside to AJ enough, didn't call time outs at the right time, didn't choose to foul etc.

If everything goes well, I expect this year team to be better and expect them to make the elite eight. However, I may be satisfied to beat IU twice, win the BIG and make the sweet sixteen. Anything less is underachieving and is the same old same old and is not acceptable to me and many Purdue fans. We here at Purdue expect more and deserve more. We deserve to be more than just respectable. If it takes Purdue to clean house like the Chicago Cubs did to reach their goals, then so be it. If you don't like that then you not a true Purdue fan.

 

[StickPurdue]

I'm hopeful that we will be national champion or at least reach the final four(s) and become an elite program once and for all in the not too distance future. Purdue has always been a respectable basketball program/school, but we never seem to get over the hump since the inception of the single elimination NCAA tournament.

I was in school when Keady was the head coach, watch CMP and the Big Dog played. We even had a decent football program with some good players like Mike Alstott. I like CMP and think he is hard working and respectable coach, but I'm not sure about his recruiting skills. To me, in order for the Purdue to take the next step we must able to recruit at a very high level and on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, we will not able to compete in recruiting with the like of MSU until we have much more success in the NCAA tournaments.

If CMP is the coach that will take us there, he must have someone on his staff that could connect with these top recruits. He does not seems to have the right approach, personality etc. and does not seems to have the right person on his staff currently that could bring in those top recruits. Success in the NCAA requires some lucks, good players and good coaching. It's obvious, that this year will be CMP's best year to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament in the next several years. Last year was very good team that could have gone deep, but we didn't have any luck or very good coaching. The biggest problem was that we didn't have the guards plays, but the coaching job CMP did at the end of the game was almost unexcusable. He seems to have panic, didn't get the ball inside to AJ enough, didn't call time outs at the right time, didn't choose to foul etc.

If everything goes well, I expect this year team to be better and expect them to make the elite eight. However, I may be satisfied to beat IU twice, win the BIG and make the sweet sixteen. Anything less is underachieving and is the same old same old and is not acceptable to me and many Purdue fans. We here at Purdue expect more and deserve more. We deserve to be more than just respectable. If it take Purdue to clean house like the Chicago Cubs did to reach it goals, then so be it. If you don't like then you not a true Purdue fan.

There was an article that ranked the top 50 pro prospects pre season. Biggie was not in the top 50. If Biggie stays for a junior year, Purdue has a very realistic shot at back to back elite 8s. At a minimum they should get two sweet sixteens in a row. If they can land a good 2018 class (Which has potential based on all the minutes about to open up), Purdue will have a chance at continues success. I'd love to see a final four run and it is certainly possible. If CE is able to have the impact I hope for, the odds would be good to compete for a Big Ten Championship and make a deep! Only one month to go!!

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

There was an article that ranked the top 50 pro prospects pre season. Biggie was not in the top 50. If Biggie stays for a junior year, Purdue has a very realistic shot at back to back elite 8s. At a minimum they should get two sweet sixteens in a row. If they can land a good 2018 class (Which has potential based on all the minutes about to open up), Purdue will have a chance at continues success. I'd love to see a final four run and it is certainly possible. If CE is able to have the impact I hope for, the odds would be good to compete for a Big Ten Championship and make a deep! Only one month to go!!

I hope he stays, but on the other hand, I hope he has a monstrous year (20pts, 10rebs), get us to the FF and get drafted high in the 1st round. I'm seeing him having very good year with 15pts & 9.5rebs and goes late in the 1st round.

 

[BoilerBiker]

If Butler did it, Purdue can do it

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I'm hopeful that we will be national champion or at least reach the final four(s) and become an elite program once and for all in the not too distance future. Purdue has always been a respectable basketball program/school, but we never seem to get over the hump since the inception of the single elimination NCAA tournament.

I was in school when Keady was the head coach, watch CMP and the Big Dog played. We even had a decent football program with some good players like Mike Alstott. I like CMP and think he is hard working and respectable coach, but I'm not sure about his recruiting skills. To me, in order for the Purdue to take the next step we must able to recruit at a very high level and on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, we will not able to compete in recruiting with the like of MSU until we have much more success in the NCAA tournaments.

If CMP is the coach that will take us there, he must have someone on his staff that could connect with these top recruits. He does not seems to have the right approach, personality etc. and does not seems to have the right person on his staff currently that could bring in those top recruits. Success in the NCAA requires some lucks, good players and good coaching. It's obvious, that this year will be CMP's best year to make a deep run in the NCAA tournament in the next several years. Last year was very good team that could have gone deep, but we didn't have any luck or very good coaching. The biggest problem was that we didn't have the guards plays, but the coaching job CMP did at the end of the game was almost unexcusable. He seems to have panic, didn't get the ball inside to AJ enough, didn't call time outs at the right time, didn't choose to foul etc.

If everything goes well, I expect this year team to be better and expect them to make the elite eight. However, I may be satisfied to beat IU twice, win the BIG and make the sweet sixteen. Anything less is underachieving and is the same old same old and is not acceptable to me and many Purdue fans. We here at Purdue expect more and deserve more. We deserve to be more than just respectable. If it takes Purdue to clean house like the Chicago Cubs did to reach their goals, then so be it. If you don't like that then you not a true Purdue fan.

Be prepared to get labeled a moron, retard, loser, and troll by the "board experts".

 

[skfboiler]

No

 

[mathboy]

I think the OP in this thread has a pretty good perspective. I can't disagree with his goals, and mostly with his action items. Yes, I want the MBB a WBB programs to excel. I want any school to fear coming to Mackey. I want to beat MSU out of more than one 5-star recruit. I want a million dollars too.

I do find it interesting that IU, Illinois, OSU, and MSU all have better facilities than we do. Yes, we just sent $100 million for new facilities, but when compared to the spending at those imitations we just pissed in a bucket. Funny thing is that all of them are recruiting better than us. Let's just ignore the better facilities, better administration support, and higher recruiting budgets and just focus on perceived personality flaws of the coaching staff. Wait, does that still make sense?

Now, I do think that if we can work to level the playing field with the tangible items I mentioned, and we still find winning eludes us, then clean out the offices and start with a new bunch. However, before we do that, we need to get our coaches the best chance to succeed.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

I think the OP in this thread has a pretty good perspective. I can't disagree with his goals, and mostly with his action items. Yes, I want the MBB a WBB programs to excel. I want any school to fear coming to Mackey. I want to beat MSU out of more than one 5-star recruit. I want a million dollars too.

I do find it interesting that IU, Illinois, OSU, and MSU all have better facilities than we do. Yes, we just sent $100 million for new facilities, but when compared to the spending at those imitations we just pissed in a bucket. Funny thing is that all of them are recruiting better than us. Let's just ignore the better facilities, better administration support, and higher recruiting budgets and just focus on perceived personality flaws of the coaching staff. Wait, does that still make sense?

Now, I do think that if we can work to level the playing field with the tangible items I mentioned, and we still find winning eludes us, then clean out the offices and start with a new bunch. However, before we do that, we need to get our coaches the best chance to succeed.

Illinois will have a chance of getting most the top recruits coming out of Illinois. Northwestern is good school but it is still Northwestern...Same can be said of OSU, they should have a chance at most of the top recruits out of Ohio since they are the only BIG school in that state. Most people will considered MSU to be an "elite" program so they will always get their share of the top recruits. IU are still benefiting from their previous NCAA tournament successes. Meanwhile Purdue without much success in the NCAA tournament will not be as successful. They will win some and lose some in their own state of Indiana against IU, Butler & ND.
I can't disagreed that better resources, better administration support and better facilities won't help with recruiting. It will definitely helps. As we all knows that most of the revenues come from football, better resources will come once our football program is off life support. But I also think that better success in the NCAA tournament will greatly help with recruiting too.

 

[bonefish1]

Yes, Purdue could absolutely become elite, but it'll take a commitment of resources from the top down. The BOT and Ath Admin need to prioritize championships, not just being competitive. Which means that to be elite, you need to have elite facilities, provide elite pay packages, etc, etc.
There's no reason Purdue can't be, it just requires the commitment (and some sustained tourney success).

A good example is the UM and MSU situation. During the Fab 5 days, nobody would argue that UM wasn't an elite program. Now, MSU has overtake them in the state. Same thing can happen to PU.

 

[Boiler Buck]

A good example is the UM and MSU situation. During the Fab 5 days, nobody would argue that UM wasn't an elite program. Now, MSU has overtake them in the state. Same thing can happen to PU.

Above very doubtful ......Painter is no Izzo.

Still Painter is a good coach and is a slightly above average recruiter, and thus Purdue will stay relatively competitive mid pack team with occasional years with experienced teams where a B1G championship might become a possibility. That is OK for some and certainly those in the ADMIN..

As to an elite program not going to happen with Painter. A FF, maybe......someday(I can hope can't I?). But Painter does not show the recruiting ability needed to keep things going year after year to be an elite program.

 

[mathboy]

Above very doubtful ......Painter is no Izzo.

Still Painter is a good coach and is a slightly above average recruiter, and thus Purdue will stay relatively competitive mid pack team with occasional years with experienced teams where a B1G championship might become a possibility. That is OK for some and certainly those in the ADMIN..

As to an elite program not going to happen with Painter. A FF, maybe......someday(I can hope can't I?). But Painter does not show the recruiting ability needed to keep things going year after year to be an elite program.

I think we are running into a chicken and egg argument here. Better facilities and better administrative support will not improve a coach's x & O capability, right? However, better facilities and better support will impact his ability as a recruiter. Elite players will execute the x & O plans far more successfully than non-elite players.

I don't know if Painter, given elite level resources and support, could recruit better or coach better, but I'd like to find out before casting him aside. He seems to be competitive on the X & O side of things with the player he gets. With better players, can he run an elite level program?

 

[IamBob]

Is Lee Rose still around?

 

[cprh9u]

There was an article that ranked the top 50 pro prospects pre season. Biggie was not in the top 50. If Biggie stays for a junior year, Purdue has a very realistic shot at back to back elite 8s. At a minimum they should get two sweet sixteens in a row. If they can land a good 2018 class (Which has potential based on all the minutes about to open up), Purdue will have a chance at continues success. I'd love to see a final four run and it is certainly possible. If CE is able to have the impact I hope for, the odds would be good to compete for a Big Ten Championship and make a deep! Only one month to go!!

Hey, let's just make one to start with. That would be 1 more than Painter has made in 11years at Purdue.

 

[cprh9u]

I think the OP in this thread has a pretty good perspective. I can't disagree with his goals, and mostly with his action items. Yes, I want the MBB a WBB programs to excel. I want any school to fear coming to Mackey. I want to beat MSU out of more than one 5-star recruit. I want a million dollars too.

I do find it interesting that IU, Illinois, OSU, and MSU all have better facilities than we do. Yes, we just sent $100 million for new facilities, but when compared to the spending at those imitations we just pissed in a bucket. Funny thing is that all of them are recruiting better than us. Let's just ignore the better facilities, better administration support, and higher recruiting budgets and just focus on perceived personality flaws of the coaching staff. Wait, does that still make sense?

Now, I do think that if we can work to level the playing field with the tangible items I mentioned, and we still find winning eludes us, then clean out the offices and start with a new bunch. However, before we do that, we need to get our coaches the best chance to succeed.

Instead of just spouting off about how bad our facilities are and how we have lower recruiting budgets, why don't you actually back it up? Well, since you don't deal in fact and logic, here are some stats from USA Today on recruiting spent from 2008 - 2013:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...cruiting-kansas-kentucky-louisville/24911927/

Team 2012-13 Spent 5 year average spent (08-13)
MSU $210,577 $130,399
Purdue $171,220 $140,123
Wisconsin $73,193 $59,719
IU $420,559 $214,129
Nebraska $323,356 $219,933

We were 2 spots behind Connecticut and 3 spots ahead of MSU. Seems about right and seems like enough to compete, especially being in such a talent rich state and region. Also keep in mind Painter got more money committed to recruiting around 2011 or 2012. I couldn't find more recent numbers, but it would be an interesting compare.

I googled facilities, and saw Mackey as a top 5 venue in the B1G, but I couldn't really find much on total facilities, such as locker rooms, practice facilities, etc. Maybe someone else has actual facts on that.

 

[PU52Chevy]

I just support the student athletes and coaches 110% and know we will win championships again someday and make it to Final 4's again.

If you don't believe and support, then you become part of the problem.

I am proud of the young men Matt Painter brings into the Purdue family and I feel and know he will continue to move us in the right direction of Championships and Final 4's.

Boiler Up!

 

[mathboy]

Instead of just spouting off about how bad our facilities are and how we have lower recruiting budgets, why don't you actually back it up? Well, since you don't deal in fact and logic, here are some stats from USA Today on recruiting spent from 2008 - 2013:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...cruiting-kansas-kentucky-louisville/24911927/

Team 2012-13 Spent 5 year average spent (08-13)
MSU $210,577 $130,399
Purdue $171,220 $140,123
Wisconsin $73,193 $59,719
IU $420,559 $214,129
Nebraska $323,356 $219,933

We were 2 spots behind Connecticut and 3 spots ahead of MSU. Seems about right and seems like enough to compete, especially being in such a talent rich state and region. Also keep in mind Painter got more money committed to recruiting around 2011 or 2012. I couldn't find more recent numbers, but it would be an interesting compare.

I googled facilities, and saw Mackey as a top 5 venue in the B1G, but I couldn't really find much on total facilities, such as locker rooms, practice facilities, etc. Maybe someone else has actual facts on that.

I like that you went to facts rather than just argue. Thank you! When it comes down to our desires, we both want Purdue to succeed. You are certainly welcome to your opinion on how to get there, and I to mine.

I suspect that the reason Whisky is so low has to do with the way they do their accounting. No way are they less than 40% of our budget, and so significantly less than all other division 1 schools. I would put those numbers under suspicion of being in error.

Now here is an interesting fact from the same article: Of the 49 public schools in the five power conferences, the average five-year spending total was $954,000, with annual average spending of $191,000. So Purdue spends on average $140,000, or 25% less than the average school in any of the power conferences? Wow, that seems like a bit of a restriction to me. Last year we spent less than half of what IU spent, and 23% ($40k) less than MSU. Doesn't that sound a bit like our boys might have some budget constraints?

Lowly Nebraska spent about twice the amount we did last year. Same for Illinois, they spent over $317K. Hum, these are nice facts, when you stop and look at them. I wonder if our assistant coaches still have to rent sub compacts or worse when they visit a recruit? I wonder how many in-home visits our coaches had to skip because they didn't have the budget. Hey, wasn't JJJ persuaded to go to MSU after leaning toward Purdue when Izzo did an in-home visit at the last minute? Sure would have been nice if Painter had answered the door at JJJ's home when Izzo came calling. He could have handed Izzo a handkerchief for all those tears.

Thanks for digging out these facts. My contention that our administration is not committed to our athletic programs seems to stand up very well in light of these numbers.

 

[mathboy]

Instead of just spouting off about how bad our facilities are and how we have lower recruiting budgets, why don't you actually back it up? Well, since you don't deal in fact and logic, here are some stats from USA Today on recruiting spent from 2008 - 2013:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...cruiting-kansas-kentucky-louisville/24911927/

Team 2012-13 Spent 5 year average spent (08-13)
MSU $210,577 $130,399
Purdue $171,220 $140,123
Wisconsin $73,193 $59,719
IU $420,559 $214,129
Nebraska $323,356 $219,933

We were 2 spots behind Connecticut and 3 spots ahead of MSU. Seems about right and seems like enough to compete, especially being in such a talent rich state and region. Also keep in mind Painter got more money committed to recruiting around 2011 or 2012. I couldn't find more recent numbers, but it would be an interesting compare.

I googled facilities, and saw Mackey as a top 5 venue in the B1G, but I couldn't really find much on total facilities, such as locker rooms, practice facilities, etc. Maybe someone else has actual facts on that.

One could question the accuracy of this report. You will note that USA today still lists Maryland and Rutgers as part of the ACC.

If you look at only the BIG schools, Purdue falls right at the median. There are 6 schools that spent less last year, and 7 schools that spent more. Seems like we should have hauled in and "average class". I remain unimpressed by our recruiting budget.

 

[dwhitebash11]

I was watching Mike & Mike on ESPN2 this AM, and for once, there was something that really stood out to me when they were talking about Nick Saban, his background, and current domination in CFB, and it really goes for all things in life.

Mike Greenberg said there are two kinds of people in this world. Those who complain about how much better things were back in the "day", and those who adjust to the current days. And no matter how you slice it, those who talk about how good the past used to be, are NEVER as successful as those who adjust to the current way of life in whatever it may be, not limited to just sports.

Nick Saban is THAT guy. He's been there in the past, he won doing things the old school way. But he realized he had to revamp his style in order to stay not only relevant, but dominant.


I thought it was pretty eye-opening, as I am one of those old-school guys, and I think Painter is/was too. I'm not saying stop emphasizing defense, which we should NEVER do, but NCAAB has changed drastically the past 10-15 years, and maybe Purdue Athletics needs to adapt, as it seems they are falling behind the 8ball on it. Our football program used to be prestigious, top 25 nearly all year, contending for a Rose Bowl and conference championship. Basketball seems to be getting back to the consistency, but we'll see what plays out the next few years.

 

[mathboy]

Interesting. Just heard that our $100 million is getting trumped by Illinois spending $132 million, and Northwestern spending $260 million on facilities.

Here we sit, too little, too late.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Leave for a couple of days and find I'm on Peegs when I return with all the hand wringing over elitism.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Leave for a couple of days and find I'm on Peegs when I return with all the hand wringing over elitism.

Same topic, maybe, but it's easy to tell the difference. Grammar, spelling, and dental hygiene make it easy.