Why People Still Support Trump

[SDBoiler1]

According to the (mainstream) polls (if you believe them), about 40% of Americans support President Trump right now. I personally think his approval rating is somewhat higher than the 40% number, but some people aren't going to publically state they support him and his style, even though they do.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-28/why-people-still-support-trump

 

[TheBoris]

The issue of "supporting" Trump poses a tricky dilemma. Do I approve of his antics, tweets, ill-considered statements to the press, etc.? No.

Do I approve of Trump in the White House instead of Hillary, who would goose up the unending invasion of our southern border by illegal Latinos while orchestrating a 550% increase in moslem immigration? Yes.

 

[Purdue4Life]

cause they're dumbasses

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I think most people that voted for him are going to continue supporting him because we never want to admit we are wrong. He certainly won more than 40% of the vote, so it's not surprising. It goes the other way too - those dug in the "resist" movement aren't ever going to support Trump, even if he becomes The Most Bigly President Ever.

For me, I support his SCOTUS nomination, I supported the counter strike on Assad, but he's done nothing else that has swayed my opinion of him nor made me more likely to vote for him in 2020.

 

[TheBoris]

I think most people that voted for him are going to continue supporting him because we never want to admit we are wrong. He certainly won more than 40% of the vote, so it's not surprising. It goes the other way too - those dug in the "resist" movement aren't ever going to support Trump, even if he becomes The Most Bigly President Ever.

For me, I support his SCOTUS nomination, I supported the counter strike on Assad, but he's done nothing else that has swayed my opinion of him nor made me more likely to vote for him in 2020.

You pretentious fool, we are not "wrong". Trump is a far better president than Hillary and her First Moslem of the White House, Huma.

 

[Purdue4Life]

You pretentious fool, we are not "wrong". Trump is a far better president than Hillary and her First Moslem of the White House, Huma.

when's your next klan rally?

 

[TheBoris]

when's your next klan rally?

In conjunction with your "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" rally.

 

[32zone]

I think most people that voted for him are going to continue supporting him because we never want to admit we are wrong. He certainly won more than 40% of the vote, so it's not surprising. It goes the other way too - those dug in the "resist" movement aren't ever going to support Trump, even if he becomes The Most Bigly President Ever.

For me, I support his SCOTUS nomination, I supported the counter strike on Assad, but he's done nothing else that has swayed my opinion of him nor made me more likely to vote for him in 2020.

Did anyone else have trouble getting past the above first sentence because they were laughing too hard?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Did anyone else have trouble getting past the above first sentence because they were laughing too hard?

I'm going to guess that most folks who've been around here longer than you probably think I'm at least semi-reasonable, and are willing to look past petty political differences so as not to devolve into cheap ad hom every time I post something they don't like. Hell, I've gotten into knock-down-drag-out political discussions on here with plenty of people, most of them liberals. It's only since the rise of Trump that I've found myself disagreeing with our uber-conservatives more. Again, I don't apologize for that, nor do I really care what you or TheBoris thinks of me.

 

[TheBoris]

I'm going to guess that most folks who've been around here longer than you probably think I'm at least semi-reasonable, and are willing to look past petty political differences so as not to devolve into cheap ad hom every time I post something they don't like. Hell, I've gotten into knock-down-drag-out political discussions on here with plenty of people, most of them liberals. It's only since the rise of Trump that I've found myself disagreeing with our uber-conservatives more. Again, I don't apologize for that, nor do I really care what you or TheBoris thinks of me.

Gr8, you lack the intellect to understand the difference between Trump's America vs Hillary's America. The latter is more illegal Latinos, more moslems and more Debby Wasserman Shultz. The former is fewer illegal Latinos, less moslems and no more DWS.

Trump's antics are meaningless with regard to the future of our nation. If we had more illegal Latinos and more moslems, then we'd degenerate into the mess that the EU has descended into. The influx of moslem migrants and African goons into Europe countries will destroy their culture, their society and eventually their sovereignty.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Gr8, you lack the intellect to understand the difference between Trump's America vs Hillary's America. The latter is more illegal Latinos, more moslems and more Debby Wasserman Shultz. The former is fewer illegal Latinos, less moslems and no more DWS.

Trump's antics are meaningless with regard to the future of our nation. If we had more illegal Latinos and more moslems, then we'd degenerate into the mess that the EU has descended into. The influx of moslem migrants and African goons into Europe countries will destroy their culture, their society and eventually their sovereignty.

Boris,

I think you're wrong about this. gr8 did NOT vote for Hitlery.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Boris,

I think you're wrong about this. gr8 did NOT vote for Hitlery.

Damn skippy I didn't. But in the end couldn't get behind Trump either.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Damn skippy I didn't. But in the end couldn't get behind Trump either.

I can respect that. I can't stand Trump, he and Hillary are both detestable human beings. Voted against him in the primary, but ultimately decided that a vote for Gary Johnson was essentially a vote for Obama's 3rd term, only without any charm or personality.

I am ticked with the pansy-ass GOP senate and house, who have done nothing but get in Trump's way thus far. They should get booted next year.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

cause they're dumbasses

So you say because I support someone you don't, I'm a dumbass. And Hillary says I'm a deplorable. Guess what....that simply means I'm right and you're not.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I can respect that. I can't stand Trump, he and Hillary are both detestable human beings. Voted against him in the primary, but ultimately decided that a vote for Gary Johnson was essentially a vote for Obama's 3rd term, only without any charm or personality.

I am ticked with the pansy-ass GOP senate and house, who have done nothing but get in Trump's way thus far. They should get booted next year.

New Pal, I'm committed to working against folks like Turtle Head, Coker, Flake, and any other entrenched RINO next year, and I'm a life-long Republican.

 

[SDBoiler1]

New Pal, I'm committed to working against folks like Turtle Head, Coker, Flake, and any other entrenched RINO next year, and I'm a life-long Republican.

These Establishment Rs are largely "Never Trumpers" who care more about lining their own pockets and helping out their special interests, it seems, than doing right by the American people.

 

[BoilersRock]

Seems like there is a solid 35-40% always for Trump, no matter what. The last election could essentially be broken down into three groups: for-Hillary, for-Donald and against-Hillary.

I've wondered how big that third group was and how motivated a like-minded group will be in 2020 (assuming Hillary doesn't try to run again).

 

[TheBoris]

Seems like there is a solid 35-40% always for Trump, no matter what. The last election could essentially be broken down into three groups: for-Hillary, for-Donald and against-Hillary.

I've wondered how big that third group was and how motivated a like-minded group will be in 2020 (assuming Hillary doesn't try to run again).

It will be interesting to see who the Dems pick to run in 2020. If they pick a moderate, they'll win. If they go with some wacko alt-left female (Waters, Pocahontas, Harris) or a moslem, they'll lose.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It will be interesting to see who the Dems pick to run in 2020. If they pick a moderate, they'll win. If they go with some wacko alt-left female (Waters, Pocahontas, Harris) or a moslem, they'll lose.

Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump.

Not so sure about that. It's not like "Uncle Joe" is that popular. He would have had some of the same issues (although not as many) as HRC. He would have been tied to Obama's policies and failures.

He may have beaten Trump, but it wouldn't have been a blowout if he did. There would have been a segment of people who would have stayed home - they voted for HRC because she was a she.

 

[SDBoiler1]

It will be interesting to see who the Dems pick to run in 2020. If they pick a moderate, they'll win. If they go with some wacko alt-left female (Waters, Pocahontas, Harris) or a moslem, they'll lose.

Do moderate Ds exist anymore? Not really.....

 

[TheBoris]

Do moderate Ds exist anymore? Not really.....

Here's how the Dems are shaping up for 2020....

Democratic Party
Further information: Democratic Party (United States)
Declared major candidates
The candidates in this section have held public office and/or been included in a minimum of five independent national polls.

Name Born Current or previous positions State Announced Ref

John Delaney April 16, 1963
(age 54)
Wood-Ridge, New Jersey U.S. Representative from Maryland since 2013
Maryland July 28, 2017

(Campaign • Website)
FEC Filing [61]
Declared minor candidates
Name Born Current or previous positions State Announced Ref

Rocky De La Fuente October 10, 1954
(age 62)
San Diego, California American Delta and Reform
nominee for President in 2016
Candidate for Mayor of New York City in 2017
Candidate for the U.S. Senate from Florida in 2016
New York January 9, 2017 [62]

Geoffrey Fieger December 23, 1950
(age 66)
Detroit, Michigan Democratic nominee for
Governor of Michigan in 1998
Michigan January 13, 2017 [63]
Individuals who have publicly expressed interest
Individuals in this section have expressed an interest in running for President within the last six months.

• Joe Biden, Vice President of the United States 2009–2017; U.S. Senator from Delaware 1973–2009; candidate for President in 1988 and in 2008[64][65][66]
• Julian Castro, U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development 2014–2017; Mayor of San Antonio 2009–2014[67][68][69]
• Stephen Colbert, comedian, television host, actor, and writer; candidate for President in 2008[70][71][72]
• Mark Cuban[note 1], businessman, investor, author, television personality, and philanthropist from Texas[22][23][24]
• John Hickenlooper, Governor of Colorado since 2011; Mayor of Denver 2003–2011[73][74]
• Eric Holder, U.S. Attorney General in 2001 and 2009–2015[75][76][77]
• Dwayne Johnson[note 1], actor, producer, and professional wrestler from Florida[27][28][78]
• Martin O'Malley, Governor of Maryland 2007–2015; Mayor of Baltimore 1999–2007; candidate for President in 2016[79][80][81]
• Bernie Sanders[note 1], U.S. Senator from Vermont since 2007; U.S. Representative 1991–2007; candidate for President in 2016[82][83][84]

• 
  Former Vice President
  Joe Biden
  from Delaware
  
• 
  Former U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
  Julian Castro
  from Texas
  
• 
  Stephen Colbert
  from South Carolina
  
• 
  Mark Cuban[note 1]
  from Texas
  
• 
  Governor
  John Hickenlooper
  of Colorado
  
• 
  Former U.S. Attorney General
  Eric Holderfrom Washington, D.C.
  
  
  • 
    Dwayne Johnson[note 1]
    from Florida
  
  
  • 
    Former Governor
    Martin O'Malley
    of Maryland
  
  
  • 
    U.S. Senator
    Bernie Sanders[note 1]
    from Vermont

Speculative candidates

• Richard Blumenthal, U.S. Senator from Connecticut since 2011[5]
• Cory Booker, U.S. Senator from New Jersey since 2013; Mayor of Newark 2006–2013[85][86][87]
• Jerry Brown, Governor of California since 2011 and 1975–1983; Mayor of Oakland 1999–2007; candidate for President in 1976, 1980, and 1992[88][89][90]
• Steve Bullock, Governor of Montana since 2013[91][92][93]
• Lincoln Chafee, Governor of Rhode Island 2011–2015; U.S. Senator 1999–2007; candidate for President in 2016[94][95][96]
• Jamie Dimon, business executive from Illinois[97][98]
• John Bel Edwards, Governor of Louisiana since 2016[99][100]
• Tulsi Gabbard, U.S. Representative from Hawaii since 2013[101][102][103]
• Eric Garcetti, Mayor of Los Angeles since 2013[104][105][106]
• Kamala Harris, U.S. Senator from California since 2017[107][108][109]
• Jason Kander, Secretary of State of Missouri 2013–2017; Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate in 2016[110][111][112]
• Caroline Kennedy, U.S. Ambassador to Japan 2013–2017[113][114][115]
• John Kerry, U.S. Secretary of State 2013–2017; U.S. Senator from Massachusetts 1985–2013; Democratic nominee for President in 2004[116][117][118]
• Amy Klobuchar, U.S. Senator from Minnesota since 2007[119][120][121]
• Mitch Landrieu, Mayor of New Orleans since 2010[122][123][124]
• Jeff Merkley, U.S. Senator from Oregon since 2009[125][126][127]
• Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts 2007–2015[128][129][130]
• Tom Steyer, hedge fund manager, philanthropist, environmentalist, liberal activist, and fundraiser from California[131][132][133]

Declined to be candidates
The individuals in this section have been the subject of speculation about their possible candidacy, but have publicly denied interest in running.

• Sherrod Brown, U.S. Senator from Ohio since 2007; U.S. Representative 1993–2007[134][135][136]
• Chelsea Clinton, First Daughter of the United States 1993–2001[137][138]
• Hillary Clinton, U.S. Secretary of State 2009–2013; U.S. Senator from New York 2001–2009; candidate for President in 2008 and Democratic nominee in 2016[139][140][141]
• George Clooney, actor, filmmaker, activist, businessman, and philanthropist from Kentucky[142][143][144]
• Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York since 2011; U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development 1997–2001[145][146][147]
• Bill de Blasio, Mayor of New York City since 2014[148][149][150]
• Al Franken, U.S. Senator from Minnesota since 2009[151][152][153]
• Kirsten Gillibrand, U.S. Senator from New York since 2009; U.S. Representative 2007–2009[154][155][156]
• Al Gore, Vice President of the United States 1993–2001; U.S. Senator from Tennessee 1985–1993; U.S. Representative 1977–1985; candidate for President in 1988 and Democratic nominee in 2000[157][158][159]
• Bob Iger, businessman from New York[160][161][162]
• Jay Inslee, Governor of Washington since 2013; U.S. Representative 1993–1995 and 1999–2012[163][164][165]
• Tim Kaine, U.S. Senator from Virginia since 2013; Governor 2006–2010; Mayor of Richmond 1998–2001; Democratic nominee for Vice President in 2016[166][167]
• Joe Kennedy III, U.S. Representative from Massachusetts since 2013[168][169][170]
• Terry McAuliffe, Governor of Virginia since 2014[171][172][173]http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/v...ions-of-running-for-president/article/2632689</ref>
• Seth Moulton, U.S. Representative from Massachusetts since 2015[174][175][176]
• Chris Murphy, U.S. Senator from Connecticut since 2013; U.S. Representative 2007–2013[177][178][179]
• Gavin Newsom, Lieutenant Governor of California since 2011; Mayor of San Francisco 2004–2011; candidate for Governor in 2018[180][181]
• Michelle Obama, First Lady of the United States 2009–2017[182][183][184]
• Tim Ryan, U.S. Representative from Ohio since 2003[185][186][187]
• Sheryl Sandberg, technology executive, activist, and author from California[188][189]
• Adam Schiff, U.S. Representative from California since 2001[190][191]
• Howard Schultz, businessman from Washington[192][193][194]
• Mark Warner, U.S. Senator from Virginia since 2009; Governor 2002–2006[195][196][197]
• Elizabeth Warren, U.S. Senator from Massachusetts since 2013[198][199][200]
• Maxine Waters, U.S. Representative from California since 1991[201][202][203]
• Oprah Winfrey, media proprietor, talk show host, actress, producer, and philanthropist from California[204][205][206]
• Mark Zuckerberg[note 1], computer programmer and Internet entrepreneur from California[207][208][209]

Potential convention sites
Bids for the National Convention will be solicited in the fall of 2017, with finalists being announced early the following spring. The winning bid will be revealed in the summer of 2018.

• Birmingham, Alabama[210]
• Columbus, Ohio[211]
• Indianapolis, Indiana[211]
• New York City, New York[212]
• St. Louis, Missouri[213]

Do moderate Ds exist anymore? Not really.....

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump.

Joe can't remember what day it is.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Do moderate Ds exist anymore? Not really.....

Could say the same about moderate Rs. You guys are all trying to run us out, even in his thread. Anyone who is not 100% conservative is no good to you guys, often condemned for being a liberal.

This one very much goes both ways. I think here are plenty of moderates out there on both sides. I just think the extremes are more outspoken, and of the opinion that anyone more moderate than them is on the other team.

It's the biggest problem with politics - the perception that both sides are running to the extremes. Eventually, the pendulum will come back center. It's not popular right now to be reasonable and willing to compromise.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Joe can't remember what day it is.

Yeah but he's likable, which is more than you can say for Trump or Hillary. Usually the winner of the "who would you rather have a beer with" question wins: Clinton over HW and Dole, W over Gore and Kerry, Obama over McCain and Romney, etc.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Could say the same about moderate Rs. You guys are all trying to run us out, even in his thread. Anyone who is not 100% conservative is no good to you guys, often condemned for being a liberal.

This one very much goes both ways. I think here are plenty of moderates out there on both sides. I just think the extremes are more outspoken, and of the opinion that anyone more moderate than them is on the other team.

It's the biggest problem with politics - the perception that both sides are running to the extremes. Eventually, the pendulum will come back center. It's not popular right now to be reasonable and willing to compromise.

The irony of your statement is that both Obama and Trump ran to the Center during their campaigns but Obama veered pretty far left and Trump has turned out to be more conservative than he ran so far. Many said Trump was a D, but he hasn't acted like one so far.

I saw a stat that said in 1980 there were something like 104 moderates (based on voting records) between both parties, while in 2016 there were a mere 4! And Joe Manchin of WV is looking to get voted out in 2018, for instance.

There really aren't moderates any more. Where is the Tip O'Neil who worked with Ronald Reagan? Where are the Blue Dog Democrats? The "moderate" Rs are either dead or were voted out. Just because someone is a Never Trumper, doesn't mean they are moderate. They are likely neo-cons or RINOs.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Yeah but he's likable, which is more than you can say for Trump or Hillary. Usually the winner of the "who would you rather have a beer with" question wins: Clinton over HW and Dole, W over Gore and Kerry, Obama over McCain and Romney, etc.

Trump doesn't drink. LOL

 

[gr8indoorsman]

The irony of your statement is that both Obama and Trump ran to the Center during their campaigns but Obama veered pretty far left and Trump has turned out to be more conservative than he ran so far. Many said Trump was a D, but he hasn't acted like one so far.

I saw a stat that said in 1980 there were something like 104 moderates (based on voting records) between both parties, while in 2016 there were a mere 4! And Joe Manchin of WV is looking to get voted out in 2018, for instance.

There really aren't moderates any more. Where is the Tip O'Neil who worked with Ronald Reagan? Where are the Blue Dog Democrats? The "moderate" Rs are either dead or were voted out. Just because someone is a Never Trumper, doesn't mean they are moderate. They are likely neo-cons or RINOs.

I don't think Trump campaigned in the center at all. He excoriated guys like Rubio and Kasich for being weak because they weren't conservative enough. It's actually a bit mind blowing to me that you think Trump ran a centrist campaign.

But what do you consider moderate? IMO, the problem is that moderates are labeled RINO/DINO, and dismissed, as you just did.

Hell, I'm a bleeding heart liberal according to some on here.

 

[stout1]

Hell, I'm a bleeding heart liberal according to some on here.

Don't feel bad gr8. Under the current definitions Reagan is a commie pinko and JFK is a hard right reactionary.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I don't think Trump campaigned in the center at all. He excoriated guys like Rubio and Kasich for being weak because they weren't conservative enough. It's actually a bit mind blowing to me that you think Trump ran a centrist campaign.

But what do you consider moderate? IMO, the problem is that moderates are labeled RINO/DINO, and dismissed, as you just did.

Hell, I'm a bleeding heart liberal according to some on here.

Sorry gr8, but Trump ran against both the Establishment Rs and the Ds in his campaign - and he beat 16 other Rs for the nomination and he beat HRC, who most on here, including yourself thought he had "NO CHANCE" of beating.

He didn't excoriate Rubio and Kasich for not being conservative enough, but for being Establishment Rs who were out-of-touch with much of America (especially Rubio). These guys were bought and sold politicians beholden to their special interests. In the R party, Kasich is kind of an outlier, because doesn't as easily fit in nice, neat categories like many other Rs. He does conform to the neo-con Bush mold and is a Never Trumper.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Don't feel bad gr8. Under the current definitions Reagan is a commie pinko and JFK is a hard right reactionary.

Just dumb. I would never say that about Reagan. JFK would be a Republican today with the stances he had in 1960.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Sorry gr8, but Trump ran against both the Establishment Rs and the Ds in his campaign - and he beat 16 other Rs for the nomination and he beat HRC, who most on here, including yourself thought he had "NO CHANCE" of beating.

He didn't excoriate Rubio and Kasich for not being conservative enough, but for being Establishment Rs who were out-of-touch with much of America (especially Rubio). These guys were bought and sold politicians beholden to their special interests. In the R party, Kasich is kind of an outlier, because doesn't as easily fit in nice, neat categories like many other Rs. He does conform to the neo-con Bush mold and is a Never Trumper.

OK, that's fair. But how do you say with a straight face that Trump ran a moderate campaign? He was socially liberal on a couple of topics that I recall, otherwise...

 

[SDBoiler1]

OK, that's fair. But how do you say with a straight face that Trump ran a moderate campaign? He was socially liberal on a couple of topics that I recall, otherwise...

He did run as a Republican - a Republican with a populist bent. He didn't run as a neo-con - he torched neo-cons like Jeb Bush mercilessly.

Some might say that his populist pitch was a chapter out of the old-time D playbook. He appealed to the blue collar people in the "fly over country" - people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, because they felt the Obama-led D party stopped representing their values. (And they don't - they look at them with disdain and HRC called them "deplorable, irredeemable".)

Ds still haven't come to terms with this. One of their historically-strong constituencies has turned their back on them, just like what happened in the south after the Carter administration. The Ds are now the party of the coastal elites. They are the party of identity politics. They are the party of temper tantrums and violent protesters. Their only message is to resist Trump and whine about every little thing he says or does.

They have no leadership anymore. OK, maybe Obama and Eric Holder from the shadows and backchannels, but no one that' obvious. It sure isn't Schumer and Pelosi.

 

[TheBoris]

They have no leadership anymore. OK, maybe Obama and Eric Holder from the shadows and backchannels, but no one that' obvious. It sure isn't Schumer and Pelosi.

So who do the dems run in 2020? Their foremost leaders are all in the far-left wing. Who could emerge as a centrist?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

So who do the dems run in 2020? Their foremost leaders are all in the far-left wing. Who could emerge as a centrist?

Cuban would beat Trump. But probably not looney lefty enough for the stalinists that run the party now.

 

[SDBoiler1]

So who do the dems run in 2020? Their foremost leaders are all in the far-left wing. Who could emerge as a centrist?

I don't see anyone who has a snowball's chance right now. Their "best" choices are totally geriatric.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Cuban would beat Trump. But probably not looney lefty enough for the stalinists that run the party now.

Mark Cuban. LMAO. Must be joking!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Mark Cuban. LMAO. Must be joking!

Which is exactly what the Democrats were saying about Trump four years ago…

 

[SDBoiler1]

Which is exactly what the Democrats were saying about Trump four years ago…

Donald had a much better brand with his show than Cuban does or ever has. Cuban has to share the spotlight - Donald really never did.

I would love for the Ds to run Cuban vs. Donald. Donald would shred him.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

He did run as a Republican - a Republican with a populist bent. He didn't run as a neo-con - he torched neo-cons like Jeb Bush mercilessly.

Some might say that his populist pitch was a chapter out of the old-time D playbook. He appealed to the blue collar people in the "fly over country" - people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, because they felt the Obama-led D party stopped representing their values. (And they don't - they look at them with disdain and HRC called them "deplorable, irredeemable".)

Ds still haven't come to terms with this. One of their historically-strong constituencies has turned their back on them, just like what happened in the south after the Carter administration. The Ds are now the party of the coastal elites. They are the party of identity politics. They are the party of temper tantrums and violent protesters. Their only message is to resist Trump and whine about every little thing he says or does.

They have no leadership anymore. OK, maybe Obama and Eric Holder from the shadows and backchannels, but no one that' obvious. It sure isn't Schumer and Pelosi.

Yeah, see, you and a few others seem to have declared the death of the Democratic party, and I just don't think that's the case. I think Republicans have a district advantage in the House to where they should usually have some kind of majority unless they just fall apart like in 2008. I think the Senate can be generally split because it falls more in line with the electoral college often (i.e. California will have two D Senators while Texas will have two R Senators for the foreseeable future).

I think the 16 election was all about the populist defeating the stuffed suit that no one trusted. I mean, I loathed Trump and would've probably voted for just about anyone other than Bernie or Hillary over him. Literally, any of the other final 8 or so R candidates probably keeps my vote in 2016, except probably Cruz. Hillary didn't appeal to anyone but Democrats. Trump had the benefit of running against a candidate that most moderates hated, and an effective populist bent.

I think it's a mistake - one that Democrats make often and one which led to their current predicament - to declare the other party dead because people have finally figured out that _________ party is the truth. That holds only so long as you have the popular candidate. And I'm not sure it's going to take an Obama wunderkind or a Trump firebrand to beat Trump in 2020. It may just take someone who speaks reasonably and can earn the trust of people. Trump isn't going to be new and shiny come 2020, and as long as Democrats don't put someone half-dead or completely whacky (or both in Bernie!), they've got a good shot IMO.

Of course, this all assumes that Trump's administration is ineffective, which it may or may not be. He's not off to a rip-roaring start, IMO. FWIW, I'm not dead set on voting against him in 2020. As I was after the election, I'm in "wait-and-see" mode. It could be that after all the bluster, he's pretty good. I'm just not seeing it yet.