this, it just amazes me that we wont every try a zone... today michigan was pretty bad from deep, perfect time to try a zone, especially with haas and swanigan in together.. but nope
Why does Purdue suck in the postseason so much?
- Thread starter Summy1
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this, it just amazes me that we wont every try a zone... today michigan was pretty bad from deep, perfect time to try a zone, especially with haas and swanigan in together.. but nope
Testify brother, been a fan since 1980 and agree with all of this. It's almost like the past 36 years of Purdue bball hasn't even happened to many who post here. Any suggestion of changing up our style of play will get you plenty of knocks on your knowledge of the game, questions about your emotional state, or bizarre rants that it's not about you.agree with the comments thus far. Sorry for the long post, but this 30+ year fan of Purdue basketball is in the mood.Prize for anyone who actually reads all of this.
We are playing NOT to lose, with the weight of history on our backs and the weight of a fan base that is craving a Final Four like no other fan base.
We need to remember to GO FOR IT! It's not going to happen by being passive. To play for EACH OTHER. To only care what the people in that locker room think. Get in that FOXHOLE with each other and just f'n FIGHT as hard as you can and leave it all out there on the court! Win or lose you can live with that attitude. I think Biggie's attitude is aligned with this and different from boiler past. He isn't meek or afraid. He goes for it. Hopefully, everyone else can follow that lead with their mindset.
It's HOW we lose that hurts more than the actual losing. And today was par for the course. Usually, it's a tough, grind it out game where it's close in the end and anyone's game ... and then we lose in the most stomach wrenching way. To boot, our coaching since 1980 is the EASIEST team to plan against because there is ZERO element of surprise. We might as well just hand over our playbook for the season to the opposition. It's ridiculous. (85 - Auburn, 88 - Kansas St, 90 - Texas, 93 - Rhode Island, 95 - Memphis - roy hairston pulled jersey, 96 - georgia and almost lost in 1st round, 12 - Kansas, Cincy, ARK LR)
And for the love of God, please do NOT wear those throwback jerseys. Let's turn the page on the past PLEASE.
I'm not a fire Painter guy or a total pro "zone" or hater, but I do think that Painter needs to use the full deck. Coach K used zone for a stretch to beat Louisville and he said it helped prevent dribble penetration and keep his bigs out of foul trouble, which is precisely what we need for a few minutes each game.
I'm not saying to play it all the time or that it is the end-all-be-all, but to NEVER play it is ridiculous. It's as if he doesn't know how to coach it, so he won't. Or he is too prideful or stubborn. And some on here think that we are "above" or "too good" to play zone like it's a sign of weakness or something. If Coach K (a Knight man-to-man disciple) can do it from time-to-time, we aren't "above" it.
OK. I'm going to step off my soapbox now. Whew. Now I feel better.
Are you satisfied with how the program has been the past few years? What would make it an A
I agree about the guard play. I think this makes a difference. I think Edwards gives us something we have lacked and I'm excited to see what eastern does. Should be a great combo.
wright vs painter is interesting
in year 4 both made the sweet 16.
In year 5 painter sweet 16, wright elite 8.
then 3 years later wright to the final four.
And 7 years later wright with a national title
It's really amazing the lack of tourney success for Purdue.
I think it's hard to narrow down what it is but if I had to pick one thing over time, I'd say it's guard play, specifically, PG.
I'm not picking on PJ, because he does some things well, but is he really a Final Four caliber player at the most important position on the floor?
I think it's hard to narrow down what it is but if I had to pick one thing over time, I'd say it's guard play, specifically, PG.
I'm not picking on PJ, because he does some things well, but is he really a Final Four caliber player at the most important position on the floor?
And have plateued...it is the best that the program is capable of under Painter with his present staff...and, quite frankly, so is St. Mary's and a host of other schools that similar to Purdue are not nationally relevant.
Look at our losses in the tourney. All it takes is an athletic guard who is also a competent passer. Rewatch the VCU game or even the Arkansas LIttle Rock. And you will see he has no answer for good guard play. He is still playing dino ball and expecting to be able to win. Its the last stop for painter, he never seems to trust his players so he micromanages during the game when he should be gameplaning.
Guard play has been a problem for Purdue for years. Hopefully the combo of Edwards and Eastern will change that.
First of all, as the players and asst coaches change from season to season...changes in athletic directors...changes in budgets, two things remain constant...Matt Painter is still the head coach and Mackey is the best damn home court advantage.
So if there is anything left to change it would have to be at head coach. I believe Painter to be a good in-game coach, decent recruiter given our assets, who just can't get the job done when it counts. He's like my dad's convertible that I borrowed way back when to take a girl out on my first date. The car was sharp and got us to the dance, but after the dance was over, it was toast and wouldn't start. Painter gets us to the dance, but a .500ish record in post season tourneys just doesn't get the job done.
At least this year the team should be well rested for the tourney. Thursday or friday's game will be like the 3rd game in 16 days?
Not sure if you are joking but some are not. zone is NOT the magic answer. It could be in the tool box but it isn't going to make a bug difference.
I think the answer is a couple more skilled athletes. Guys like cline play tight because they are over matched athletically. You can gave a couple guys like that but not a majority. You also need skill though, that's the rub.
It seems like the guys coming in may provide some c. Edwards skills. I hope at least
Come NCAA's, all you naysayers are going to be very surprised. I expect an Elite 8 appearance for this group of Boilers, and with the right bracket, they could very well be in the FF.
My question....would a FF shut all you negative Nellie's up for awhile? Would an Elite 8 do the same?
Hey...Minny just lost. MSU lost. IU lost. UCLA lost. Kansas lost. Butler lost. And a whole lot more teams that "weren't supposed to" did.
Boy did those bring back bad memories (85 - Auburn @ Auburn with 2 great NBA players in OT I think?, 88 - Kansas St (with one NBA player banking it from 25 ft for the win), 90 - Texas (was it two or three NBA players with Sheffler shooting very poorly and TExas living off the three), 93 - Rhode Island (can't remember this one...seems like I recall the Spiders running Flex though), 95 - Memphis - roy hairston pulled jersey, 96 - georgia (wasn't that the senior dominated team that was very talented that had a bad season with Tubby the coach?)and almost lost in 1st round, 12 - Kansas, Cincy(should have won...AJ faded when the center for Cinncy was ejected), ARK LR 24-6...guard goes unconcious and Purdue misses some bunnies)agree with the comments thus far. Sorry for the long post, but this 30+ year fan of Purdue basketball is in the mood.
We are playing NOT to lose, with the weight of history on our backs and the weight of a fan base that is craving a Final Four like no other fan base.
We need to remember to GO FOR IT! It's not going to happen by being passive. To play for EACH OTHER. To only care what the people in that locker room think. Get in that FOXHOLE with each other and just f'n FIGHT as hard as you can and leave it all out there on the court! Win or lose you can live with that attitude. I think Biggie's attitude is aligned with this and different from boiler past. He isn't meek or afraid. He goes for it. Hopefully, everyone else can follow that lead with their mindset.
It's HOW we lose that hurts more than the actual losing. And today was par for the course. Usually, it's a tough, grind it out game where it's close in the end and anyone's game ... and then we lose in the most stomach wrenching way. To boot, our coaching since 1980 is the EASIEST team to plan against because there is ZERO element of surprise. We might as well just hand over our playbook for the season to the opposition. It's ridiculous. (85 - Auburn, 88 - Kansas St, 90 - Texas, 93 - Rhode Island, 95 - Memphis - roy hairston pulled jersey, 96 - georgia and almost lost in 1st round, 12 - Kansas, Cincy, ARK LR)
And for the love of God, please do NOT wear those throwback jerseys. Let's turn the page on the past PLEASE.
I'm not a fire Painter guy or a total pro "zone" or hater, but I do think that Painter needs to use the full deck. Coach K used zone for a stretch to beat Louisville and he said it helped prevent dribble penetration and keep his bigs out of foul trouble, which is precisely what we need for a few minutes each game.
I'm not saying to play it all the time or that it is the end-all-be-all, but to NEVER play it is ridiculous. It's as if he doesn't know how to coach it, so he won't. Or he is too prideful or stubborn. And some on here think that we are "above" or "too good" to play zone like it's a sign of weakness or something. If Coach K (a Knight man-to-man disciple) can do it from time-to-time, we aren't "above" it.
OK. I'm going to step off my soapbox now. Whew. Now I feel better.
Now in motion or any read offense such as Purdue runs with a few sets is it easier to prepare for Purdue than a team that runs mostly sets? Maybe the real issue has more to do with the players than the game plan and maybe Purdue over achieves in the season? Lastly, you forgot the Florida game where two NBA players put it together and beat Purdue by 20. Talking Purdue and not high school, just what kind of zone would you (or anyone that has an opinion) play with Purdue players today or would you play a match-up zone? This question is for "any" that thinks a zone is the answer with the Purdue players. Now next year, in spite of some very real short comings with a zone, there will be some different personnel that I believe a more legitimate zone discussion could possibly exist, but then again I may just be missing how Purdue is going to play a zone knowing offensively Purdue plays two bigs at a time so someone can rest.
Bo made an elite 8 in year 4, then a FF in year 13. CMP didn't/won't achieve either of those benchmarks.
So what your saying is that Bo Ryan didn't make a FF until year 13. Exactly what I was saying.
One of my memories that I still shake my head about is the regional semi against UConn. If you remember they were extremely athletic and big. There weekless was perimeter shooting. Do you think CMP adjusted to this? Nope. Got to watch Izzo a week later in the national semi exploit that. Hmmmm that was it for me.
My bad. I thought you were implying that CMP is on a similar progression, which is clearly not the case.
#1-No Athletes #2-No point guard that can create for himself and/or others #3-At present lack a defensive stopper #4-Difficult to compete with limited depth even harder when 3 of your 8 rotation players are 6'0" or under.#5-Either better recruiting and/or better retention of players.
TC, If Painter had reached an Elite8 in year four, he'd have enough support to get to year 13. I have no doubt about that. Look what he had for support after not much but hope and the excuse of a knee injury with the baby boilers. I'm not a stat guy, but did Bo let his program bottom out into last place sometime between year 4 and 13? If he hadn't then, there is that... and this may be false equivalency to use Wisco and Bo.
Let's ignore that the two teams what would likely have been Painter's best ever had to deal with losing Robbie. Not to mention we kicked Barlow off the team right before the ncaa tourney before losing to VCU. Just like the fumble changed the trajectory of the football program, the RH injuries may have been what slowed the program down significantly as far as making a final 4. I do like the team he is building and love the pieces coming in and feel like we are in a better place with the structure of the team and recruiting than we have ever been under him.
mental aspect is huge, but so is talent since the mental may come and go and the talent has less variation..but both are huge and the mental is many times dismissed
Well, we made it to the BTT Championship last year...
The fact of the matter is every team loses in tournaments except one, so a lot of people have a perception of not winning. Over half of the tournaments have been won by 2 teams (Michigan State and Ohio State).
Only 6 teams have won the Big Ten Tournament and Purdue's is #5 in Big Ten Tournament final appearances (ahead of Michigan, Indiana, Minnesota).
Um you do realize Wisconsin got its current coach in the exact same way you're complaining about?
Twin, I don't expect an Elite8 now. And think a FF is pie in the sky stuff. That's just my gut feeling right now...and I've been wrong plenty. Let's hope this ends up being another one of them. MSU and IU didn't have a #1 seed...double bye. Michigan wrecked a plan, got in to town just in time to play, played consecutive days and took us into OT. I hear some say the loss will be good for our "legs" to rest. Mich didn't seem to need rest. I find that to be an odd perception. Now, if we flame out in the first two rounds, will you shut up? Or, is that unrealistic and extremely childish and rude to ask such a question? You know me, I'm pretty honest and realistic. You know that if we reach an Elite8 you will read nothing but praise for Painter from me. Not sure why we must be labeled either. Not a big fan of the Negawatts, Negative Nellie or Settlers stuff.
People overanalyze tournaments way too much. SO MUCH of tournament success has to do with match-ups. For example, put us in Wisconsin's position and I think we have a very good shot at the championship game - and that's removing one of the byes. And hell, even put us in Northwestern's position. But we played the worst match-up in the entire conference in our first game (do you actually think Michigan is the 8th worst team in the Big Ten?) - and the next game waiting is our next worst match-up. So no, I didn't expect to go far.
So this idea of without knowing AT ALL what your match-ups are in the NCAA Tournament that one can come up with an imaginary benchmark is silly. 1 team finishes their season with a win. I hate losing - I was AT the game yesterday - and obviously losing in the Final Four is a helluva lot less bitter than losing in the first round, but at the end of the day it's a game. Having the outcome of a tournament affect your life - not worth it.
People over analyze tournaments? Then you analyze the hell out of it? LOL!! I joke. Put us in Wisconsins position and you have pure speculation as how it turns out. In NW spot and you still have no guarantee of any outcome. And.... Is Michigan the 8th worse? Well, are we really the best? We won the league but Mich is clearly better, twice...apparently they're better so we're not best. That can be looked at both ways. But, I'm guessing you don't appreciate that eye opener. I'm tired of the ghost excuse. "We got screwed by the refs", "We got a bad seed", "We got a bad match up", "If not for the knee injury we'd have (insert faux outcome)". And, of course it's just a game. So, why does everyone get so butthurt and emotional when someone says the team underachieved? They want better? A different coach?
No question...you could see that by winning the Big season Purdue's route would be much harder than being in Wisconsin's position. I would much rather play Wisconsin than Michigan..or Minny for that matter. Mature perspective on life as well. I think about how frustrating it is for us and then think "we" put nothing into it. What about all the sacrifices and hours the coaches and players put into it.
"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved; the pig is committed."
I'm not trying to equate the two. All I'm doing is showing other coaches who had struggles and large gaps in between success in the tournament before breaking through.
And just so I get this straight, you're saying if we had won one more game in the tournament in 2009 or 2010 then you'd feel differently than you do here in 2017?
I've always thought the key to winning tournaments was having a great guard on the floor that could dictate the tempo of the game and also act as a coach on the floor. When it comes to tournaments, it's usually a guard who elevates his game to a new level rather than a big man. I cringe when I see swanigan taking a 3! Why? Because when he misses, we have no chance at a rebound. In our losses, it was obvious our guard play and their inability to hit a ft in crunch time has cost us several games. Much like our latest loss. Look at the classic ucla verses nc state. Walton played his usual game, but nc st guards elevated their game, and yes, it was a fluke they won. The same was true when us lost to Russia in that olympics. The game should never have been close, but their guards elevated their game. Essentially guards have always elevated their games in tournaments while big players have basically remained the same or were worse. Was joe Barry Carroll better during the season or tournament? Can Swanigan take his game to another level? History would say no.
And just so I get this straight you think Elite8 teams should get the same hardware as Final4 teams? Or final4 teams the same as NC teams? Don't play that card. Whether you like it or not, we're judged by NC, Final4 and Elite8's. Sweet16s are a dime a dozen at the level we should be. We are not Northwestern or Ball State. We are Purdue!
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But you're basing your complaints about the Big Ten tournament loss yesterday. You didn't suddenly bring this crap up again for the hell of it.
And that logic also makes no sense. Why would you be fine in one tournament, but not another?
If you actually look at match-ups based on seeds, I'd be willing to bet that Painter has actually outperformed his seed more in the NCAA Tournament than Big Ten. Purdue's rarely lost to a worse seed than them under Painter.
I understand the frustration. But people who repeatedly post this stuff after every loss should stop with the faux outrage every time someone posts "Fire so-and-so!" or "Extend Painter!" because you think the settler joke has been run into the ground.
I don't think that's necessarily the case - I think it's more so that it's a helluva lot easier to find a good guard than a good center or PF. Having a very offensively productive PF/C is not common.
That being said, I do think that sometimes we have not seen Swanigan, our best player, "rise up" when the team is either struggling or in a critical game (i.e. not the best go-to guy for end of game situations). Yesterday in the second half, he kind of disappeared. He kept inching out to the perimeter more - and as you mentioned, the three point shootin is a love/hate thing. Swanigan's 3 point shooting percentage has gone down 7% in like less than a month - he was shooting 50%, now he's at 43%. Still good, but he had that number because he was very selective on hi 3 point shooting. He took 1, maybe 2. Lately, it's been closer to 3 per game.
Caleb is such a critical part to our efficiency - because he's also great at sharing the basketball. He's not a selfish guy, but we do need him to be an efficient guy. The great thing about him is that he can be such a force beyond points and rebounds. But he needs to take advantage of his positives/advantages - something I think he's been letting slip away from him at times.
