I know. You read stuff and then make up really odd conclusions about it. Glad you understand that, at least.
Why did he do it?
- Thread starter Bethboilerfan
- Start date
What was your point, aside from wiping trumps ass?
Why is it so hard for you to comprehend even the basics? I clearly stated that if ANY president did what was done yesterday, he or she should be vilified.
Yet you’re here doing everything you can to defend the indefensible. To me that just says you love Trump more than the country, simple as that.
And you can cry about Obama all you want. I’ve never defended him either , but he sure as hell didn’t get on a stage for the world to see and lick Putin’s nutsack
Aww, are you upset that I said someone loves trump more than their country? Quit being such a snowflake, ya commie.
A lot of this investigation was going on into Russian meddling into American politics some of it back to 2012, and much what was linked here about the 12 Russian indictments and the operative Maria Buttina(sp) was in the 2014-2016 time period. Hate to break it to you, but Obama was President then, and Trump was a civilian for much of that time, declared candidate for Presidency for part of it, and President -elect for part of it.
So again, it is hypocritical and at the same time interesting that nobody really cared/cares about Obama not doing much under actions that occurred during his Presidency, but want to hang Trump out to dry for it. Obama did nothing about actions of Russia and denied their actions/effectiveness as late as OCT of election year, and Trump just denies it. WTH is the difference and why the 180 in ways they are treated? But hey, go ahead and ignore that part.
Patently unwilling to doubt Trump, no, just will wait to see how things develop. I see a lot of up in arms nonsense in this thread made up of complete random, irrational thoughts. Just like the Iran deal, Trump talking with NK, and now Russia, I think they are largely wastes of time. Will wait to see how they work out though. Pretty much spot on with Iran being a waste of time. Those countries will do what they want regardless.
So a few things here
Not sure where Trump was defended.
-Personally, I think what Obama did was worse. JMO. He made fun of Romney for his 1980 style anti Russia foreign policy, bent over backwards for Russia, then talks almost Patton like toward them at a summit, but gets caught after he he thought mics were off saying we will talk after election because he has to win it, then all but ignored Russia's meddling during his Presidency.
With Trump, he said what he said yesterday almost on a monthly basis. One knows where he stands for most part. Although I do think he confuses Russia meddling with collusion on his part.
I would rather know what I am dealing with in Trump's case rather than what Obama was up to. Not that either are good positions. But anyway, do not understand why Trump gets crucified and Obama got a pass. Think what the media or your political party tells you to much? And before someone tries to say Obama is not President, he was during this meddling and interference.
I also find it ironic that people that disdain Trump the most for his behavior, act a lot like him. It is that way in the real world as well as here. The name calling, outbursts, attempted putdowns, loosely if connected at all thoughts. You and Trump, behavior wise, are very similar.
First of all, this is a message board on a sports site. You want more decorum? You’re probably in the wrong place.
Second, and more important, just wow with the blind defense of Trump. He only stood up yesterday and pretty much committed treason but wah, he gets picked on. Get bent, Jesus effing Christ.
I thought about this a bit more and here’s what it boils down to:
Obama: Lying
Clinton: Lying
Strozk: Lying
Media: Lying
Sexual Assault Accusers: Lying
Climate Change: A lie
All US Intelligence Agencies: Lying
Putin: Oh I believe him.
I mean come the eff on. How ANYONE can defend him is just baffling.
I don't see it as hypocritical at all. We're not talking, in this case, about each president taking action to stop the Russian interference.
When it became clear in the middle of the summer that the Russians were trying to interfere, the way they were going about it and the methods they used had never been seen before. I don't think the Obama admin realized the extent nor the effectiveness of the attack. They told them to cut it out a couple times to no avail. Congressional dems were curious with him for not publicizing the info.
At the same time, Trump is telling anyone who will listen how the election was rigged. Imagine the turmoil that would be created.......and the total outrage by Trump supporters, if Obama comes out and says the Russians were trying to influence the upcoming election......and on behalf of Trump. The entire election could have been a nightmare with the loser refusing to conceed, partisan investigations, accusations back and forth.......and a country paralyzed by a contested presidential election.
Knowing what we know now about Trump, can we even imagine his reaction if Obama had publicized what he knew?
I think Obama made the best decision......let the election go on without releasing the info and deal with it afterward. Trump and his supporters should be damn happy with that decision, things could very easily be different if Obama had acted.
It's easy to judge Obama's inaction in hindsight. But if the results of an attack were known before the battle, history would be much different. The Obama IC had never seen this kind of attack before and they have said they didn't know how to stop some of it and didn't realize how broad and extensive it ended up being......and it would be pretty damn hard for the public to care about it at the time when we didn't even know about it.
That was about what Obama didn't do about the interference AS it was happening. With Trump, that's not the case. We know what happened. We have known for his entire term. Yet he has NEVER unequivocally agreed with that fact.....even today with this missing contraction bullshit, he still has to add it could have been someone else. He hasn't shown he cares about what's best for the country by denying the truth, he's shown he cares more about keeping his ego intact.
To compare Obama's actions or inaction to Trumps is apples and oranges. One cared about trying to keep the election process fair, the other cares about himself.
I see your points, agree with some of them, and thanks for the well thought out post.
I was not even sure what Trump tried to say or back track on today, and that was before he added in it could have been anybody. Still did not quite make sense to me.
I do think more than anything he views this issue as diminishing his election win, and he confuses meddling/interference with collusion by him. Add to that his incoherent communication and firestorm of tweets and it leads to problems.
I think a lot of this for me, is that I have realized and understood that Russia(as have other countries) has been involved in political meddling since at least the 80s. Some real old timers in intel think they were involved in anti war protests in late 60's/early 70's. And my reaction just goes to one of why does everyone suddenly care now?
In a way it is good people care. Just interesting that citizens had a real laissez faire attitude about it til now. Will be interesting to see if this topic has this much scrutiny when party of President changes hands.
I don't think the public has known about Russian attempts in the past. Im not sure it's something a cold war era president would want the people to know.
I also don't think it was very effective but I have no facts to back that up. Someone said the other day it's been going on since Truman......but what could election interference have amounted to before social media or electronic voting? Spies trying to stuff ballot boxes? Forming anti American organizations?
My point is that dismissing the current interference by saying it's been going on a long time ignores the effectiveness of the methods at various points in history. They could have an effect in 2018, much more than even 10 years ago.
All Americans should care no matter which party is in the WH. But it's likely the parties will exchange points of view at some point.
If you're really interested in this topic there are many non fiction books written by people who were in the agencies in charge of these espionage/counter operations. Everything from voting to infrastructure to defense intelligence.
