Oh, the road is tuff? To unranked teams no less. Fire their coaches!!!!! 
Why did #1 Kansas and #3 Maryland lose tonight?
- Thread starter threeeputtt
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Well not West Va - they are #11 and they are tough. I'm just angry we didn't compete at Illinois.
KS guards had 13 TO's on the road against the press. Imagine that.Oh, the road is tuff? To unranked teams no less. Fire their coaches!!!!!
road games are tough. In conference play I always assume home games are must wins and road games against teams with a pulse are ones you hope to get lucky and steal. You can usually be in solid contention to win the conference by going roughly 5-4 on the road. The number of teams that have gone 6-3 or better in road games the last few years is quite small.
Fire all of them! When the new coach loses, fire him too!Oh, the road is tuff? To unranked teams no less. Fire their coaches!!!!!
To all of the Pollyannas, there is a big difference between what happened to Kansas and Maryland and what happened to Purdue. Purdue has been trending down for the last six weeks. I'm not saying they can't right the ship but if they were a stock, I'd sell.
But don't worry, Painter isn't going anywhere. Burke doesn't have the wallet, guts, or brains to make a move. The sad truth is we couldn't hire anyone better. Twenty years from now this board will continue to thrive with people talking about "what could have been". Hell, we've been talking like that for 35+ years now. The difference between Keady and Painter, Keady did more with less. But wait, Painter is still young, right?
This board is filled with opinions. Some I agree with, others I don't. At the end of the day, if everyone is accepting of mediocrity, that's exactly what you'll have. That's true for people on this board, the athletic office, the coaching staff, and the players.
But don't worry, Painter isn't going anywhere. Burke doesn't have the wallet, guts, or brains to make a move. The sad truth is we couldn't hire anyone better. Twenty years from now this board will continue to thrive with people talking about "what could have been". Hell, we've been talking like that for 35+ years now. The difference between Keady and Painter, Keady did more with less. But wait, Painter is still young, right?
This board is filled with opinions. Some I agree with, others I don't. At the end of the day, if everyone is accepting of mediocrity, that's exactly what you'll have. That's true for people on this board, the athletic office, the coaching staff, and the players.
Long ride folks...we will win some and lose some...but we will be near the top at the end and in the Big Dance with a chance to win it all.
Boiler Up!
Boiler Up!
But again, is it because of who we are playing?
Look at Maryland.
They nearly lost to Penn State at home. They barely won at Wisconsin. They just lost to Michigan. Are they trending down?
Don't get me wrong, I was disappointed with our play at Illinois. But at the same time, Illinois is NOT a bad team. They had been in some bad circumstances, they had probably the toughest start to the conference schedule out of any team in the Big Ten and were returning to play at home with their best player coming back. They had their backs against a wall. Again, I was disappointed solely because aside from all of that, we didn't seem to be too focused. That's a problem.
But you can't wig out for every game you lose in Big Ten basketball. As I've mentioned before, in our best Big Ten season in quite some time before Robbie Hummel tore his ACL, Purdue lost 3 games in a row in January. This is a time where teams learn a lot. You aren't playing cupcakes anymore. The point people are making is that it's not a "Purdue" thing to lose games right now.
The good news is that many of our problems are fixable. Our defense stunk the other night. We know how to play better defense - we saw a tremendous improvement in defense last year through the first month of Big Ten. The turnovers are tricky. I certainly don't think we're going to be a team that averages 10/game. And we've shown that we can play long stretches without having a glaring issue. Swanigan is a big part of the turnovers - he's averaging basically 4 a game (had 5 the other night - take his out and we had 11 turnovers, respectable). So that's a tough situation to handle - he's a very talented kid who can provide a lot to you offensive and on the boards. But the turnovers are killing you. And it's not just his fault - his teammates have to recognize good and bad situations before getting him the ball.
The other thing is you have to look at our strengths. AJ ended up shooting 5 times against Illinois, but for most of the game (when it was competitive), he had taken 2 or 3 shots. Even if we're making other shots - we HAVE to have AJ involved. Doesn't mean we have to give him the ball every possession, but we can't afford for AJ to disappear. And a lot of that, at this point in his career, is on AJ's shoulders. He's not a guy focused on himself which is great and is part of the reason he has grown so much, but it's his senior year. He can't disappear in games on the offensive end - let alone on the road. He has to assert himself. Against Michigan, he had 0 fouls, he had 2 against Illinois. If Illinois is trying to prevent him from getting the ball, assert yourself. If we're in the 2nd half and he has 1 or 2 fouls, he's gotta be more aggressive.
WV was more than a press. It reminded me of the old Nolan Richardson Arkansas "40 minutes of Hell" defensive teams. They are quick and apply serious pressure all over the floor. It was constant for the entire game and much more intense than anything we've had to deal with for 40 minutes. I think our TO turnover would have been even higher than KU's, and a lot of those would likely be for failing to cross the 10 second line TOs.
This board reminds me of our national politics. If you do not side with one extreme you are assumed to be on the other extreme. Support the coach blindly or want him fired after every loss, no middle ground.
Totally agree. I support the team but not blindly. I'm a "wait and see" kind of guy and said at the beginning of the season that the truth about things is probably somewhere in the middle of those extremes. Which is why I really don't take things all that seriously on here.
Plus let's be very realistic, if ANY of us actually had a clue about any of this, we'd be coaching somewhere and not posting about it on a forum.
I agree with almost everything you are saying. The only exception or point I would make is that in the IL game AJ was sitting for a long stretch in the 2nd half for no apparent reason. It was so bad all the people that we were watching with were trying to figure out if we missed him getting hurt! We had cut the lead to 6 and momentum was swinging to us and he sat AJ and he stayed there way too long.
I agree completely that AJ has to be engaged and getting as many touches as possible. Except for brief rests or early foul trouble, he needs to be on the floor.
Ah, but they're not, even though our coach is recruiting and trying to get us to play like it's 1990. We need to adjust with the times to get better recruits and give us a better chance at winning.
This. It's fun to "Play Hard" and say "Defense Lives Here," and those don't have to go away (they shouldn't), but it's time for Purdue to accept the fact that it needs to adjust, offensively, to get with the times. You can still play great defense and have an efficient, high-scoring offense.
My dad was able to watch a game with Burke a few years ago at an alumni event, and Burke kept saying over and over, "we need to get back to playing Purdue basketball!"
What is "Purdue basketball?" ...losing in the first or second round of the tourney every year? The slow, methodical, motion offense, with two giant big men at the 4 and 5, will have games where it looks great, but it's a dying breed...look at the Memphis Grizzlies. Slowly but surely, it's happening in college hoops...we'll see what Purdue does, I guess.
I mean, I think you are simplifying it way too much.
There aren't many teams out there at all that have a high-scoring offense and also play great defense…..
There aren't, but Purdue is also definitely in the minority, in terms of teams that play like it's 1990. I mean, we hear it on every broadcast: "it's always a slugfest/rockfight with this Purdue team" or "bring your hard hat." There's a reason why that is continuously said.
That's what I loved about Hummel. He could play 3, but also played plenty of stretch 4 while JJ would play the 5. I realize Hummel is one of the best to have played at Purdue, but still.
there are people coaching that do NOT have any idea or little idea...but they are not in the college ranks that I am aware. I'll also say that I think most would find it difficult unless a tremendous advantage over teh competition in talent...Totally agree. I support the team but not blindly. I'm a "wait and see" kind of guy and said at the beginning of the season that the truth about things is probably somewhere in the middle of those extremes. Which is why I really don't take things all that seriously on here.
Plus let's be very realistic, if ANY of us actually had a clue about any of this, we'd be coaching somewhere and not posting about it on a forum.
I think he wants to do that and if he gets who he wants in 2017 he will be on his way. I think he looked at upside for those not physically aligned the most and thought he could compensate...and he has somewhat.
One thing I have long appreciated about Izzo teams is his ability to blend traditional physical Big Ten brand basketball with the modern finesse and speed game.
Michigan State has had a lot of athletic talent over the years...no question. He has taken that athletic ability and helped cultivate a toughness. When he first came into the league he wanted MSU to acquire and play with the toughness of Purdue...along with Jud's offense...
I mean, I feel like this is a matter of opinion on what you'd like to see, not so much whether it works or not. Wisconsin had a LOT of success hardly playing a "modern" brand of basketball under Bo Ryan and makes Purdue's brand look like an offensive powerhouse. Purdue's also shown a consistent level of competition with highly talented teams. We have finished in the top 3 in the Big Ten 5 out of Painter's 10 years. You don't finish in the top 3 playing "outdated" basketball.
12 months ago people were complaining that Painter hasn't been able to recruit since the Baby Boilers class. Today people are complaining we are barely ranked. I understand there's an "in-between" - but Purdue's currently where most people had us picked to finish the season going into the year. People can't say our non-conference was a "false sense of reality" and then go on to complain that we aren't top 10 (which is what we were around during this "false sense of reality").
I know we are early in the conference season, but if you look at JUST conference statistics (taking out our "weak" non-conference games)….
-Purdue is averaging 70 ppg - Maryland is avg. 72. Purdue's currently 5th in FG %. Purdue is also 6th in 3 point field goal % at a respectable 37% (there are 3 teams in the 37% range so we're basically tied for 4th)
-Purdue is currently 9th in scoring defense. Obviously there's all of these fancy stats that say we're this amazing defensive team (and Painter has been reluctant for months to embrace those saying he didn't think we were that great). This is a big problem. Purdue's also 6th in FG % defense and 13th in 3 point FG % defense.
-Purdue is shooting 79% from the free throw line. This is an area that is incredibly improved - even just from last year. I think this is an area that should get credit for improvement and an area we have to recognize we DO have an advantage and need to take up on that. One of my complaints this season has been our centers avoiding contact. Haas used to draw the most fouls of anyone. This year, they are both shying away from contact. I understand they don't want to get into foul trouble and they need to play smart, but given our free throw shooting - we can certainly go to the line more. Purdue has shot 61 free throws in Big Ten play - there are 5 teams that have shot over 90 and only 1 team has shot fewer than we have.
-Purdue's 5th in rebounding margin. There is just no reason we should not be in the top 3, if not top 2 in rebounding. Purdue's also very middle of the pack in all of the specific rebounding categories. That's something that should be improved.
-And finally, I think this is interesting given all of the talk about PG - Purdue, even during conference play only, is leading the Big Ten in assists.
Great post. Factual and many things people forget. It's like I've said, things are not nearly as bad....or good... as some on here think. The truth is in the middle and your stats prove that.
Thanks for the research. This really helped me get a better understanding of some of our recent struggles. First thing that stuck out to me was that we are 13th in 3PT FG % defense. I know we haven't been at our best on that side of the court lately but, even at our worst, we play better perimeter defense than most of the teams in the B1G. This tells me that this stat is a bit of an aberration and should slide back down to the mean as we play more games. Also, you made a good point about our lack of FT attempts. With as much as we use our bigs, we should always be on of the top FT attempt teams. AJ and (especially) Haas need to attack the rim consistently. But probably more telling is the lack of aggression from our wings and guards. To your point, we've been 75 - 80% from the line all year. Take advantage of it. One comment though. Our assist metric is really more of a team stat than a PG stat. We are an unselfish team and everybody gets in the act. Nice write up.
Sorry, but I have to put a fly in the ointment here. JUST conference games is pretty meaningless because it includes only 4 or 5 games at this point and some teams, like Iowa, have already played MSU and Purdue, for instance. Our schedule so far has been harder than some of the other teams (with Iowa and Michigan). So the schedule you've played biases the data, especially with the very small sample size.
If you look at Purdue full 17 games so far, Purdue is:
4th in the BIG in Scoring Offense @ 78.5 ppg. (IU, Iowa, and MSU score more)
2nd in the BIG in scoring defense @ 61.2 ppg (MSU is just barely ahead @ 61.1)
We shoot 75.1 from the free throw line, 20th in the nation.
We are Top 10 in rebound margin.
We are Top 3 in FG % defense.
All of you just stop trying to cuffs with facts. Purdue sucks. Painter sucks. Burke sucks. Mackey sucks. The Boilermaker Special sucks. I have read enough from the board experts to know that only an undefeated season including a national title won't suck. OK it will still suck a little.
Oh I know it's very early to look at conference only stats. But as I mentioned, looking at our conference only stats is a much "tougher" metric on us than our overall stats (that include many non-conference pansies). I think it's a mix of both though. Our defense has NOT been great in a couple of games. Michigan and Illinois both shot very high percentages against us from 3 in particular. Obviously you can get a hot shooting team every now and then that perfect defense can't fix.
But something like free throws - I think that's an area that certainly we need to be more aggressive with the ball.
I see the trolls are getting to you.
Oddly, certain low post count posters fail to show up after a win, but if we lose, you can be sure of seeing posts from certain repeat offenders. Those fellows are either very bitter fans, or not Purdue fans at all. I get after them ever once in a while, but it is not worth letting them get to you.
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