Nailed it...
I think I'll stay with that starting lineup...
Yep...Kind of hard to start when you're no longer on the team.
Man you killed that one!!!
Wheeler, Sasha and Dow......
- Thread starter PU52Chevy
- Start date
Yep...Kind of hard to start when you're no longer on the team.
Man you killed that one!!!
Not picking at your words or point, NPB, if there's anything that should be evident after Painter's off-season comments, the best player(s) will play, regardless whether or not we, as fans, think someone has "improved".
I don't get this "recruiting over" mantra.
Every coach will always continue to get the best recruits at every position he can. If he has a stud (or 2) at the 5, he will continue to recruit another stud at the 5.
You're always looking to improve.
You're always looking for the next players to push your current players. That isn't "recruiting over" your existing. That's just life.
LOL - can you imagine someone asking Saban if he’s recruiting over such and such player?
Dow is going to be a RS Sophomore next year. We were supposed to have Tre and Haarms, so Dow wouldn’t have played. Painter tried very hard to land Dickinson and Kalkbrenner in this class. They likely wouldn’t have played much this coming year with Haarms back, but the following year the position would have been Tre and one of those two... Dow still wouldn’t have played. Then Tre leaves and Furst comes on board. That leaves the 5 spot with one of Dickinson or Kalkbrenner and Furst. Dow still doesn’t play.
Painter tried to have 4 centers on the roster for next season. With Furst committed, he would have had 4 centers on the roster the following season too. Do you think Painter actually thinks we need 4 centers? I’m sure he doesn’t, because it makes the roster incredibly imbalanced. My guess is he didn’t have Dow in his future plans, so he went out and got a 3rd string center anyways.
Neither of us know for sure Painter’s reasoning for having 4 centers, or what his future plans are for Dow. We are both purely guessing. We disagree, and that’s fine.
Not sure what we're disagreeing on.
Coaches always "recruit over" players, if we're going to use that terminology. Coaches always look to get deeper, better, stronger.
"Generally"
Not sure if you've seen the nonsensical comments on the football forum about the number of WRs we have, but coaches ALWAYS try to get the best players they can.
As we've seen, sometimes that results in "unbalanced" recruiting classes, which results in unbalanced rosters.... like we have now. (Football AND basketball)
If you can get an elite player, you TAKE an elite player. It's no more complicated than that.
I see about 3 maybe 4 ways of playing on D . 1 can play behind, 1 behind&side and 2 fronting the low post. Those that front play O on the perimeter and the other 2 low to mid post. Where Dow lands I dont know
Football is different. With WR you can have 5 on the field at the same time if you wanted. Between Haarms, Tre, Dow, and Edey, only ONE of those players can be on the court at once. It’s highly likely Dow and Edey wouldn’t have played again next year. That will be Dow’s 3rd year in the program. If you aren’t playing after 3 year’s in the program, you likely aren’t going to ever play.
Having 4 players at Center DOES make our roster unbalanced (well 3 now that Haarms left).
I’m not following here...
I’m sure Painter will put Dow in his absolute best defensive scheme to succeed. However, Dow may not be capable of playing any of the defenses you outlined above.
I feel dizzy reading your posts. You're complaining about a coach potentially trying to have a roster that's:
5th year center
junior
redshirt sophomore
true freshman
How is that unfathomable to you? Centers are typically the slowest position to adjust to basketball. And there's thread after thread about how we're too small next season after losing Haarms.
And it's not like at the same time we're short on guards.....
That seems pretty damn smart to me.
Why would you have a position 4 deep? It’s highly likely two of those players won’t play. The point in this was to show Painter was recruiting over Dow, because imo, he doesn’t see Dow as having a big impact in the future.
You have 13 scholarships. It’s a position that requires the most development, and is also the most likely to require you to be 3 deep due to foul trouble. And you don’t ever want to get stuck without one.
I’d liken it more to QB in football.
I just don’t see the need for 4 players that can only play 1 position. I’m happy to agree to disagree on this though!
I saw/spoke to an assistant coach tonight...he said that Gillis and Newman had the best work ethic of anyone on the team...he was very confident that both would be very successful during their time at Purdue in that both possess that mindset and work ethic that other great players had...refreshing to hear, and, encouraging as well.
I had heard something similar much earlier. It gave me hope that we will be better next year, and it worried me that some of the guys playing were not putting in the right amount of effort. Turns out that they weren’t.
The only flaw here is that Painter is not a wait your turn type coach that many on here would have you believe.
You say that centers are "typically the slowest position to adjust" but all of Purdue's starting centers in the Painter era where big contributors their first year at Purdue. Look at the list.
Landry
JJ
Hammons
Haas
Haarms
Williams
Can you name me one center in the Painter era that came in, didn't play much their freshmen or sophomore year but ultimately became a big contributor. I don't know of one.
Here is what I am wondering, assuming Wheeler sticks around if he suddenly becomes the player we all hoped he would be, you have to wonder whether the reason he slumped was due to some outside influences of his own that are now no longer there.
I am NOT suggesting that is the case, but it will be something to ponder if he suddenly turns it around.
I am NOT suggesting that is the case, but it will be something to ponder if he suddenly turns it around.
Yes, football is different (I really don't think we need to recognize that).
In the past, we've seen 2 big men on the court at once. Painter didn't like the results this past season, but there was a glaring reason for that.
Unbalanced basketball rosters is a common situation in CBB, even though coaches try to avoid it.
I found it interesting that Brian said Purdue would consider over signing the 2021 class.
Gotcha.
I believe it was during the Dakich interview, Matt Painter talked about trying to play both bigs and didn't like the results. At times, he had success with Haarms and Haas (at that time, some fans on here were clamoring for more of that combo). Different team chemistry, but the type of team chemistry we're re-establishing.
All I see at this time as possible ways of playing when Tre (for whatever reason) is not playing. On D, Dow he can play behind and/or side a low post player. Edey, he will have to play behind I expect. Wheeler/Gillis...if called upon I look for them to front the low post based upon someone Purdue really wants to defend down low. On O, if Dow is playing he can go to the blocks and possibly be able to score at mid post. My biggest concern with Dow on O is handling the ball. Edey is probably very similar to Dow on O at this time. Gillis/Wheeler if chosen to play a 5 will most likely be behind the arc on O. If they can really stroke it and yet defend a a decent rate, they can flip the size issue in defending.
All of this is a guess since we really don't know how the players progress upto the season starting
Agreed. You take the best possible player you can get, regardless of position. With injuries, transfers, etc, you can't predict what your team will look like year to year so you just try to load up on the best talent and work with what you have.
I still believe in Wheels. I'm not a "light bulb goes on" guy, but I like his form and his shot looks good coming off his hands (unlike NE which was cringe worthy). Maybe it's just a matter of him getting up 1000 jumpers a day and seeing it go in more often. Then playing to his strengths (running the floor, hitting the glass) instead of trying to do things that aren't (dribble penetration).
Define "best".
An example of my point: At the time of his recruitment, many widely thought Francis Okoro was Painter's #1 priority. He went to Oregon... Just transferred to Saint Louis U.
SLU.
The Billikens.
Unless something changes, he'll likely be an "okay" performer. At SLU.
There's a difference in what you want and what you get.
But, to answer your question, probably not. Both projects, which I'm not a fan of because they rarely work out.
That’s kinda my point. Outside of Tre, none of the centers Painter recruited in 2018 have done anything in college. Maybe we recruited the wrong guys?
I get what the hope is, but Dow and Edey had around 4 years combined basketball experience entering college...
I don’t think we need to hand out scholarships just to fill up our roster.
Same...I had heard something along those same lines, but, it was affirmation of what I had heard, and, of what I had suspected as well regarding the latter.
Agree, but, it is very clear that there are not any concerns about the true/incoming freshman in that regard.
Hopefully that group of 4 or 5 can get our program work ethic rebalanced.
Haarms/Williams games did not work well together...but, that was more on Haarms than anyone/anything.
If Haarms had put the time in and truly developed his game, there were minutes for him and a spot on the floor for sure...the guy had every opportunity that anyone could ask for...and then some for that matter...he was in the program for four years...yet, he still had no back to the basket game, he was not able to stretch the defense (at least not to the extent that by that point he should have been able to if he had put in the time and work), he never developed into a good rebounder, and he could not put the ball on the floor or make a post-entry pass...had he done some of those things, he would have played more...much more...but he did not, nor was he apparently interested in doing so.
Re: "Outside of Tre..." ............. Maybe. You seem to be eager to declare that, after one RS year and one year behind Tre and Matt. And the "Outside of Tre" is a big exception, brother!
To be clear, I don't know what the future holds for Dow. He might never make it, or he might turn into a solid player. Time will tell. Painter has a pretty good track record with big men.
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