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What's the best program to compare to Purdue?

bonefish1

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Oct 4, 2004
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Taking multiple factors into consideration, with the most important being consistent success (especially in the tourney), what program should be the best measuring stick for Purdue and why? Feel free to add others that I haven't included.
MSU
Wisky
Stanford
NC State
GA Tech
K State
Baylor
Vandy
Florida
'Cuse

I vote MSU because other than the head coaches success, I think Purdue and MSU are very similar in a lot of ways. Everything from the campus, facilities, geography, being the #2 school in the state, etc, etc.
 
Historically and even today Purdue is a land grant institution. (They are supported via federal funding as such) Consequently they have an Agriculture school and are the Extension school in the state. Usually these are engineering schools also.

In the B1G the land grants are MSU, PSU, IL, MN, OSU, NEB, MD, RUT, WIS. HOWEVER, of these ONLY MSU has other dominate schools in their state, with the state name...thus I would say MSU. Outside of the B1G we compare to OK State, Texas AM, Iowa State, North Carolina State, Oregon State, Clemson, Virginia State and Auburn being Land Grant Institutions with other large schools in the state carrying the state name.

Of these schools nation wide the land grants with weird names where you sometimes have to wonder where they are located are: CLEMSON & AUBURN as the best comparison to Purdue.
 
Taking multiple factors into consideration, with the most important being consistent success (especially in the tourney), what program should be the best measuring stick for Purdue and why? Feel free to add others that I haven't included.
MSU
Wisky
Stanford
NC State
GA Tech
K State
Baylor
Vandy
Florida
'Cuse

I vote MSU because other than the head coaches success, I think Purdue and MSU are very similar in a lot of ways. Everything from the campus, facilities, geography, being the #2 school in the state, etc, etc.

Obviously there will be differences no matter which comparison you make but I kind of think NC State because they have had success historically, even a couple national championships, and are still not even the most visible team in the state. Recruiting has got to be tough for them.

Also I kind of view Iowa State as similar. They have had some very good teams over the years but not much success in March to show for it.

That said I would not use any program as a measuring stick for us. We have a unique set of circumstances as does every school and we should just be constantly looking at the program and our performance and evaluating what areas we can improve upon. Some of you that think changing the coach is a cure all are very simple minded. If you want to win championships in football and basketball at Purdue you need a change of thinking in the higher level administration first. Winning national championships is not a big deal to our trustees or president, and in my opinion it should not be. They want/need athletics to be self-sustaining and respectable. Winning big comes somewhere way below those things. Until that changes, you could keep changing coaches every 4-5 years if you want but you're going to be continuously disappointed with the results if your end game is to win a national title in football or basketball.
 
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Taking multiple factors into consideration, with the most important being consistent success (especially in the tourney), what program should be the best measuring stick for Purdue and why? Feel free to add others that I haven't included.
MSU
Wisky
Stanford
NC State
GA Tech
K State
Baylor
Vandy
Florida
'Cuse

I vote MSU because other than the head coaches success, I think Purdue and MSU are very similar in a lot of ways. Everything from the campus, facilities, geography, being the #2 school in the state, etc, etc.
The Cubs (tic)
 
Obviously there will be differences no matter which comparison you make but I kind of think NC State because they have had success historically, even a couple national championships, and are still not even the most visible team in the state. Recruiting has got to be tough for them.

Also I kind of view Iowa State as similar. They have had some very good teams over the years but not much success in March to show for it.

That said I would not use any program as a measuring stick for us. We have a unique set of circumstances as does every school and we should just be constantly looking at the program and our performance and evaluating what areas we can improve upon. Some of you that think changing the coach is a cure all are very simple minded. If you want to win championships in football and basketball at Purdue you need a change of thinking in the higher level administration first. Winning national championships is not a big deal to our trustees or president, and in my opinion it should not be. They want/need athletics to be self-sustaining and respectable. Winning big comes somewhere way below those things. Until that changes, you could keep changing coaches every 4-5 years if you want but you're going to be continuously disappointed with the results if your end game is to win a national title in football or basketball.
This an excellent assessment. I have a friend with some connection to Wisconsin and he pointed out how they were a door mat for decades in both major sports. The reason for the change was a complete change in school administration and a commitment to winning in athletics by the board and the president. It's no accident.
 
This an excellent assessment. I have a friend with some connection to Wisconsin and he pointed out how they were a door mat for decades in both major sports. The reason for the change was a complete change in school administration and a commitment to winning in athletics by the board and the president. It's no accident.

And they found the right guy to turn things around.....Barry Alvarez would have no problem if he chose to run for Governor.
 
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And they found the right guy to turn things around.....Barry Alvarez would have no problem if he chose to run for Governor.

Barry was a very popular guy. If their football situation doesn't turn "stable" shortly, he's going to get a lot of heat. They've managed to maintain a level of success during the instability, but it's gotta iron itself out soon. He's really stuck his neck out into that program - for some understandable and obvious reasons - but their turnovers has been remarkable really (and again, they've still been able to have success).
 
Obviously there will be differences no matter which comparison you make but I kind of think NC State because they have had success historically, even a couple national championships, and are still not even the most visible team in the state. Recruiting has got to be tough for them.

Also I kind of view Iowa State as similar. They have had some very good teams over the years but not much success in March to show for it.

That said I would not use any program as a measuring stick for us. We have a unique set of circumstances as does every school and we should just be constantly looking at the program and our performance and evaluating what areas we can improve upon. Some of you that think changing the coach is a cure all are very simple minded. If you want to win championships in football and basketball at Purdue you need a change of thinking in the higher level administration first. Winning national championships is not a big deal to our trustees or president, and in my opinion it should not be. They want/need athletics to be self-sustaining and respectable. Winning big comes somewhere way below those things. Until that changes, you could keep changing coaches every 4-5 years if you want but you're going to be continuously disappointed with the results if your end game is to win a national title in football or basketball.

So from an administration standpoint, what are 2 or 3 major, tangible changes that could be made that would improve FB and BB? (Just saying "a commitment to winning" isn't the right answer).
Is the biggest problem the self funded AD?
Is it Burke?
Is it Daniels?
If Daniels and the board of trustees said to Painter or Hazell "you can have anything you need to get the program to championship level. What do you need?" What do you think would be the answer?
 
So from an administration standpoint, what are 2 or 3 major, tangible changes that could be made that would improve FB and BB? (Just saying "a commitment to winning" isn't the right answer).
Is the biggest problem the self funded AD?
Is it Burke?
Is it Daniels?
If Daniels and the board of trustees said to Painter or Hazell "you can have anything you need to get the program to championship level. What do you need?" What do you think would be the answer?

The whole point is, you need a BOT and President that wants that before it even matters. They don't and, in my opinion, probably shouldn't care that much about athletics. So we could sit all day and speculate what to do with each program if they both had blank checks but that is putting the cart before the horse. However, if you want specific things that could be done if the whole focus were just to field the best football/basketball team as possible, I can think of two. First and foremost, drop admission requirements for those athletes and develop some meaningless curriculum that makes it easy for them to pass classes and stay eligible. Secondly, build a luxury dorm to house athletes and do whatever you have to do to make it legal by NCAA standards (ie have a required of regular students living there too).

Let it be known, that I'm not in favor of either thing but if you want to remove some recruiting pitfalls compared to other schools I think those could be some major things. Also, that alone won't guarantee improvement without a coach that knows how to use those players. I think it would benefit the basketball program right now because I feel what limits us there is not our coach but our ability to land enough top tier recruits. The football program, I don't think we see major improvement even if we got better recruits because I'm just not sure the coaching staff has the first clue on how to develop players and put together a team.
 
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The whole point is, you need a BOT and President that wants that before it even matters. They don't and, in my opinion, probably shouldn't care that much about athletics. So we could sit all day and speculate what to do with each program if they both had blank checks but that is putting the cart before the horse. However, if you want specific things that could be done if the whole focus were just to field the best football/basketball team as possible, I can think of two. First and foremost, drop admission requirements for those athletes and develop some meaningless curriculum that makes it easy for them to pass classes and stay eligible. Secondly, build a luxury dorm to house athletes and do whatever you have to do to make it legal by NCAA standards (ie have a required of regular students living there too).

Let it be known, that I'm not in favor of either thing but if you want to remove some recruiting pitfalls compared to other schools I think those could be some major things. Also, that alone won't guarantee improvement without a coach that knows how to use those players. I think it would benefit the basketball program right now because I feel what limits us there is not our coach but our ability to land enough top tier recruits. The football program, I don't think we see major improvement even if we got better recruits because I'm just not sure the coaching staff has the first clue on how to develop players and put together a team.

I've said it before with a different President that people often critiqued, and I'll say it again with the current President - university presidents are ONLY going to do so much when it comes to athletics. It is not a significant make up of most universities to where they really spend a whole lotta time on.

Basically, we've seen Purdue have four presidents while Burke has been at Purdue. None of them have really treated athletics much differently. There have been some small differences between personalities and such, but it's relatively been the same on the overarching approach.

Obviously the one common factor through 4 different presidents has been the athletic director. Purdue doesn't need some massive assistance from the university - Big Ten schools for the most part are not really getting that (there may be a student fee for tickets, but in terms of revenue - student fees actually tend to bring in less than charging students for tickets).

Purdue's big problem now is that football revenue has been so bad. For the most part, BOT/Presidents are basically just going to give approval to what the athletic director proposes. They aren't saying no, come back to me with someone else. So that falls on the athletic director.

Purdue's NOT struggling because of the reasons you are putting forth. You know what school has the toughest admissions in the Big Ten outside of Northwestern? Wisconsin. They're doing a-ok. Not Purdue. And to act like Purdue doesn't have easy classes/majors is just flat out denial. Purdue's a very good school, do not get me wrong, but it's not like it's some secretive Ivy League school that is so hard to get into and there's no easy majors at school with 30,000 students. You cannot use this excuse when you see other much better academic schools like Northwestern, Stanford, etc. have success. "Luxury dorms" for athletes are not allowed. Purdue also has a pretty nice dorm in a recently renovated Cary Quad that's literally across the street from the athletic campus.

The fact of the matter is that Purdue had success with similar situations - Purdue was good in football with worse facilities than they have now.

I think the biggest problem is just overall management - not just from Burke but from various departments. Purdue does not strive to be the best as an athletic department. It's been happening for years - every single time I get solicited by athletics, there's a complaint/negative tone. There's just a lack of positivity, vision, etc.
 
I've said it before with a different President that people often critiqued, and I'll say it again with the current President - university presidents are ONLY going to do so much when it comes to athletics. It is not a significant make up of most universities to where they really spend a whole lotta time on.

Basically, we've seen Purdue have four presidents while Burke has been at Purdue. None of them have really treated athletics much differently. There have been some small differences between personalities and such, but it's relatively been the same on the overarching approach.

Obviously the one common factor through 4 different presidents has been the athletic director. Purdue doesn't need some massive assistance from the university - Big Ten schools for the most part are not really getting that (there may be a student fee for tickets, but in terms of revenue - student fees actually tend to bring in less than charging students for tickets).

Purdue's big problem now is that football revenue has been so bad. For the most part, BOT/Presidents are basically just going to give approval to what the athletic director proposes. They aren't saying no, come back to me with someone else. So that falls on the athletic director.

Purdue's NOT struggling because of the reasons you are putting forth. You know what school has the toughest admissions in the Big Ten outside of Northwestern? Wisconsin. They're doing a-ok. Not Purdue. And to act like Purdue doesn't have easy classes/majors is just flat out denial. Purdue's a very good school, do not get me wrong, but it's not like it's some secretive Ivy League school that is so hard to get into and there's no easy majors at school with 30,000 students. You cannot use this excuse when you see other much better academic schools like Northwestern, Stanford, etc. have success. "Luxury dorms" for athletes are not allowed. Purdue also has a pretty nice dorm in a recently renovated Cary Quad that's literally across the street from the athletic campus.

The fact of the matter is that Purdue had success with similar situations - Purdue was good in football with worse facilities than they have now.

I think the biggest problem is just overall management - not just from Burke but from various departments. Purdue does not strive to be the best as an athletic department. It's been happening for years - every single time I get solicited by athletics, there's a complaint/negative tone. There's just a lack of positivity, vision, etc.

Slow down. I think you missed the key parts where I said that athletics shouldn't be that important to the BOT and President and that I don't think those changes would benefit the football program with the current coaches.

That said, luxury dorms do exist. I've seen things online about Kentucky's and I have family that worked at Kansas and told me about one they recently built. I believe there are rules providing that it has to have some proportion of the general student population in them as well so they are not labeled as an added benefit for just the athlete but when schools decide they want to recruit the top athletes they find ways to provide as much as they can within what the rules allow (and some don't let the rules stop them either).

Also I know that some of the majors Purdue funnels athletes into aren't all that challenging for you or I but I'm guessing they are far more involved than what you'll find athletes at other places taking. It's not about what level of school Purdue is against anyone else. It's about what exceptions you make for athletes who are looking to go somewhere just to play football or basketball and not have to worry about school. I've lived in South Bend for over 15 years now. I can tell you for certain that Notre Dame makes exceptions to get certain football players in that wouldn't have a prayer of getting into the school without football. They also get plenty of help that goes beyond tutors and academic support. The way I figure it, Notre Dame probably isn't even close to the worst as this goes (see North Carolina).

I'm not advocating either of these things for Purdue and I believe there is room for improvement without these sorts of things. But these are the types of things you find at schools who have bought into, from the top down, doing whatever it takes to win at athletics. Those things don't happen without support from outside the athletic department.
 
This an excellent assessment. I have a friend with some connection to Wisconsin and he pointed out how they were a door mat for decades in both major sports. The reason for the change was a complete change in school administration and a commitment to winning in athletics by the board and the president. It's no accident.
Purdue has spent over $100 million on both upgrades to the basketball & football facilities over the past 5-10 years & has plans for more to both. They gave CMP the salary increase to both him & his assistants that he held them hostage for. At some point it falls on the coaches. Either win or find new ones. I'm not sure what else you want the school to do.
 
Purdue has spent over $100 million on both upgrades to the basketball & football facilities over the past 5-10 years & has plans for more to both. They gave CMP the salary increase to both him & his assistants that he held them hostage for. At some point it falls on the coaches. Either win or find new ones. I'm not sure what else you want the school to do.

But this is part of the problem. MOST of the "Mackey Renovation" has little or nothing to do with men's basketball. The renovation cost included the new baseball stadium, updating women's soccer, moving the Grand Prix track, building new football practice fields, etc.

Basically it gave MEN'S BASKETBALL 1 practice court (most practice facilities have 1 for men, 1 for women - ours share 1), somewhere to workout (shared with other sports) some new offices and a renovated locker room. Hell, they are currently doing crowdfunding so they can pay for a video board, lighting and a sound system to bring Mackey out of the 1990s - not included in the renovation!

This was one of the worst $100 million projects I've ever seen completed at a major university. It was marketed horribly to fundraise and basically put an expensive band-aid on facilities that will need to be upgraded sooner than later.
 
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Slow down. I think you missed the key parts where I said that athletics shouldn't be that important to the BOT and President and that I don't think those changes would benefit the football program with the current coaches.

That said, luxury dorms do exist. I've seen things online about Kentucky's and I have family that worked at Kansas and told me about one they recently built. I believe there are rules providing that it has to have some proportion of the general student population in them as well so they are not labeled as an added benefit for just the athlete but when schools decide they want to recruit the top athletes they find ways to provide as much as they can within what the rules allow (and some don't let the rules stop them either).

Also I know that some of the majors Purdue funnels athletes into aren't all that challenging for you or I but I'm guessing they are far more involved than what you'll find athletes at other places taking. It's not about what level of school Purdue is against anyone else. It's about what exceptions you make for athletes who are looking to go somewhere just to play football or basketball and not have to worry about school. I've lived in South Bend for over 15 years now. I can tell you for certain that Notre Dame makes exceptions to get certain football players in that wouldn't have a prayer of getting into the school without football. They also get plenty of help that goes beyond tutors and academic support. The way I figure it, Notre Dame probably isn't even close to the worst as this goes (see North Carolina).

I'm not advocating either of these things for Purdue and I believe there is room for improvement without these sorts of things. But these are the types of things you find at schools who have bought into, from the top down, doing whatever it takes to win at athletics. Those things don't happen without support from outside the athletic department.

Yes, nice dorms exist! Cary Quad is considered to be one of the nicer ones on campus and almost every football/men's basketball player lives there when they live on campus - it's nice and it's also perfect proximity to athletics facilities.

As for academics, look - Purdue is a good school. But again, if a football player can't PASS classes in OLS with all of the legal assistance given to them - I don't know what to say. I'm not looking for straight As here. I know people who had that major. Purdue's not THAT hard. Purdue's a great school, but the academic hardship excuse for football/men's basketball is just not a major thing. Yes, are certain kids going to be hard to get in? Absolutely - but our peers in the Big Ten are basically on the same page (and like I said, other schools have even tougher stipulations, like Wisconsin who excels in both sports). To act like every kid on our football/basketball team hit the admissions averages for Purdue students - just not true at all.
 
As for academics, look - Purdue is a good school. But again, if a football player can't PASS classes in OLS with all of the legal assistance given to them - I don't know what to say. I'm not looking for straight As here. I know people who had that major. Purdue's not THAT hard. Purdue's a great school, but the academic hardship excuse for football/men's basketball is just not a major thing. Yes, are certain kids going to be hard to get in? Absolutely - but our peers in the Big Ten are basically on the same page (and like I said, other schools have even tougher stipulations, like Wisconsin who excels in both sports). To act like every kid on our football/basketball team hit the admissions averages for Purdue students - just not true at all.

I don't disagree with any of that and, personally, I'd rather raise the standards than lower them. Then again, my main concern isn't for the basketball team to get to the Final Four. For those people here with that narrow focus, things like that make it harder for us to land the elite recruits that other schools routinely get and we don't. Those recruits have choices and we're competing with schools that are willing to offer the most they can possibly offer, and sometimes more than allowed. I don't think people get that when it comes to recruiting. It's a very uneven playing field when it comes to recruiting and we're still competing with all these teams when it comes to going to a Final Four. If a 5 star kid from Indy just wants the quickest path to the NBA, why would he come to Purdue when he has offers from UNC, for example, where he can play basketball at the top level and doesn't have to worry about classes or grades. Or why would Romeo Langford consider us over Louisville when they are a great basketball program and are sending strippers to greet him on his visits? Obviously these two examples are cases where teams went beyond the rules for recruiting but I would hazard to guess that these aren't the only cases that have happened. Just the ones we know about at present. There are other schools out there doing everything they can while trying to stay within the rules. The things I mentioned are those types of things and I don't even think we should do those. I just think it's important that people take a step back and look at the big picture before calling to fire the coach after a 25-win, top 20 season. Purdue, as an institution, does not push the envelope when it comes to athletics and we are competing with many schools that do. I try to use that to frame my expectations.
 
Slow down. I think you missed the key parts where I said that athletics shouldn't be that important to the BOT and President and that I don't think those changes would benefit the football program with the current coaches.

That said, luxury dorms do exist. I've seen things online about Kentucky's and I have family that worked at Kansas and told me about one they recently built. I believe there are rules providing that it has to have some proportion of the general student population in them as well so they are not labeled as an added benefit for just the athlete but when schools decide they want to recruit the top athletes they find ways to provide as much as they can within what the rules allow (and some don't let the rules stop them either).

Also I know that some of the majors Purdue funnels athletes into aren't all that challenging for you or I but I'm guessing they are far more involved than what you'll find athletes at other places taking. It's not about what level of school Purdue is against anyone else. It's about what exceptions you make for athletes who are looking to go somewhere just to play football or basketball and not have to worry about school. I've lived in South Bend for over 15 years now. I can tell you for certain that Notre Dame makes exceptions to get certain football players in that wouldn't have a prayer of getting into the school without football. They also get plenty of help that goes beyond tutors and academic support. The way I figure it, Notre Dame probably isn't even close to the worst as this goes (see North Carolina).

I'm not advocating either of these things for Purdue and I believe there is room for improvement without these sorts of things. But these are the types of things you find at schools who have bought into, from the top down, doing whatever it takes to win at athletics. Those things don't happen without support from outside the athletic department.
you have to remember that nd took Paul Hornung's advice rather strongly.
 
Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Clemson, Auburn...........
I think Auburn is a very good example.

Land grant college. Rural setting. Big Brother State school as a competitor.

I drive through Alabama several times a year with my job. If you have ever been to Auburn you know that without the school there isn't much there. I don't know any Auburn alums or current students but I would bet that they feel very much the same about the Univ of Alabama as we do about IU. I don't know that I have the answer about how a school goes about changing the way it addresses athletics and basketball and football specifically. I just know that when you are in Auburn you know you are in a football crazy town and they love their Tigers.
 
Yes, nice dorms exist! Cary Quad is considered to be one of the nicer ones on campus and almost every football/men's basketball player lives there when they live on campus - it's nice and it's also perfect proximity to athletics facilities.

As for academics, look - Purdue is a good school. But again, if a football player can't PASS classes in OLS with all of the legal assistance given to them - I don't know what to say. I'm not looking for straight As here. I know people who had that major. Purdue's not THAT hard. Purdue's a great school, but the academic hardship excuse for football/men's basketball is just not a major thing. Yes, are certain kids going to be hard to get in? Absolutely - but our peers in the Big Ten are basically on the same page (and like I said, other schools have even tougher stipulations, like Wisconsin who excels in both sports). To act like every kid on our football/basketball team hit the admissions averages for Purdue students - just not true at all.

Agreed. PUs academic standards are no tougher than any other B10 school and probably well below schools like Duke, Stanford , etc.
if a top recruit wants to come to Purdue, he'll get in and stay eligible.
So, I wish people would quit acting that's a unique recruiting challenge for Purdue. It's not.
 
I don't disagree with any of that and, personally, I'd rather raise the standards than lower them. Then again, my main concern isn't for the basketball team to get to the Final Four. For those people here with that narrow focus, things like that make it harder for us to land the elite recruits that other schools routinely get and we don't. Those recruits have choices and we're competing with schools that are willing to offer the most they can possibly offer, and sometimes more than allowed. I don't think people get that when it comes to recruiting. It's a very uneven playing field when it comes to recruiting and we're still competing with all these teams when it comes to going to a Final Four. If a 5 star kid from Indy just wants the quickest path to the NBA, why would he come to Purdue when he has offers from UNC, for example, where he can play basketball at the top level and doesn't have to worry about classes or grades. Or why would Romeo Langford consider us over Louisville when they are a great basketball program and are sending strippers to greet him on his visits? Obviously these two examples are cases where teams went beyond the rules for recruiting but I would hazard to guess that these aren't the only cases that have happened. Just the ones we know about at present. There are other schools out there doing everything they can while trying to stay within the rules. The things I mentioned are those types of things and I don't even think we should do those. I just think it's important that people take a step back and look at the big picture before calling to fire the coach after a 25-win, top 20 season. Purdue, as an institution, does not push the envelope when it comes to athletics and we are competing with many schools that do. I try to use that to frame my expectations.

How do you know what Purdue does or doesn't do to entice recruits? How do you know we're not giving $100 handshakes and providing extra favors with our recruiting 'hostess'?
I know we'd all love to believe P is squeaky clean, but it's not like if something were going on, that it would be publicized.
I'm sure UNC and Louisville fans/alums were as shocked as anyone with the recent allegations.
You act like the only way to get top recruits is to cheat. That's not true.
Do some kids want to go to a program as a means to the NBA? Of course, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd love to have more 1 n done players because that probably means better results on the court.
 
How do you know what Purdue does or doesn't do to entice recruits? How do you know we're not giving $100 handshakes and providing extra favors with our recruiting 'hostess'?
I know we'd all love to believe P is squeaky clean, but it's not like if something were going on, that it would be publicized.

If we are cheating, we are the worst cheaters in the history of cheating.
 
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Purdue has spent over $100 million on both upgrades to the basketball & football facilities over the past 5-10 years & has plans for more to both. They gave CMP the salary increase to both him & his assistants that he held them hostage for. At some point it falls on the coaches. Either win or find new ones. I'm not sure what else you want the school to do.
IF the problem is coaching then the school must make changes there also. I do not have the information required to know the answer to that which is why I do not jump up and down screaming to fire everybody. That responsibility falls on the AD. His employment is in the hands of the Pres and BOT. My point was that the Wisconsin administration changed from one with disdain for athletics to one with strong support for it and the results are positive for athletics there.
 
IF the problem is coaching then the school must make changes there also. I do not have the information required to know the answer to that which is why I do not jump up and down screaming to fire everybody. That responsibility falls on the AD. His employment is in the hands of the Pres and BOT. My point was that the Wisconsin administration changed from one with disdain for athletics to one with strong support for it and the results are positive for athletics there.

But again, Wisconsin's coach who got up and left to Oregon State said the academic requirements made it really hard for him to recruit (particularly jucos). This was a standard above what the Big Ten required and made it virtually impossible for jucos and to some degree transfers to come play football at Wisconsin specifically. Alvarez basically said he knew it was a challenge, but wasn't going to fight that battle.
 
But again, Wisconsin's coach who got up and left to Oregon State said the academic requirements made it really hard for him to recruit (particularly jucos). This was a standard above what the Big Ten required and made it virtually impossible for jucos and to some degree transfers to come play football at Wisconsin specifically. Alvarez basically said he knew it was a challenge, but wasn't going to fight that battle.
Are JUCOs and transfers the life blood of wisconsins program? Probably not.
Is it a factor. Yes.
My friends input was that Wisky sucked for decades due to no support of at all relative to other college athletics programs. When that changed they began to improve facilities and pay more for coaches. Then we all saw improvements build. It wasn't instantaneous. Barry Alvarez, then Belima, and on the hoops side, Stu Jackson, then Dick Bennet, then the Count.
I personally don't want easy admissions requirements at my SCHOOL. I like the respect a Purdue degree carries with it. Wisky has done it without selling out academics. Purdue is not that far away in hoops. It can be done. Maybe a new coach is the answer. But don't forget that it can backfire too and make things even worse. Like football. Glad I'm not an AD.
 
Are JUCOs and transfers the life blood of wisconsins program? Probably not.
Is it a factor. Yes.
My friends input was that Wisky sucked for decades due to no support of at all relative to other college athletics programs. When that changed they began to improve facilities and pay more for coaches. Then we all saw improvements build. It wasn't instantaneous. Barry Alvarez, then Belima, and on the hoops side, Stu Jackson, then Dick Bennet, then the Count.
I personally don't want easy admissions requirements at my SCHOOL. I like the respect a Purdue degree carries with it. Wisky has done it without selling out academics. Purdue is not that far away in hoops. It can be done. Maybe a new coach is the answer. But don't forget that it can backfire too and make things even worse. Like football. Glad I'm not an AD.

Do you look at someone with a degree from UNC differently because of a scandal in their basketball program? UNC is a damn good school and hard to get into.
 
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Also, let's face it. The admissions requirements for athletes is different than for regular students.
And let's not start acting like we care what our athletics graduation rate is. The only people who bring that up are those alum from crappy programs.
 
Can't think of many teams that are usually top 25 and can never go deep in the tourney. Baylor is kind of but they have elite eights while Purdue has S16s.
 
Can't think of many teams that are usually top 25 and can never go deep in the tourney. Baylor is kind of but they have elite eights while Purdue has S16s.
When was Baylor last in the E8? I can't remember that happening recently.
 
Do you look at someone with a degree from UNC differently because of a scandal in their basketball program? UNC is a damn good school and hard to get into.
Actually, yes. As a hiring manager at a major firm, I have received specific guidance regarding hiring from unc, and what to look for on a new hire's scholastic record.

:cool:
 
Agreed. PUs academic standards are no tougher than any other B10 school and probably well below schools like Duke, Stanford , etc.
if a top recruit wants to come to Purdue, he'll get in and stay eligible.
So, I wish people would quit acting that's a unique recruiting challenge for Purdue. It's not.
Well, I think it is not the entrance requirements that are the constraints. It is the Purdue requirements regarding declaring a major by the end of the second year. Probably doesn't affect one and drones, but it does affect other athletes.


If you want a good laugh, check out what Ohio state basketball players take for courses. You will quickly see why OSU can bring in the players they do. They are UNC redux.

:cool:
 
Actually, yes. As a hiring manager at a major firm, I have received specific guidance regarding hiring from unc, and what to look for on a new hire's scholastic record.

:cool:

I'm calling BS on this comment. I don't believe it for a second.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that your management is going to let what happens in a schools basketball program impact a hiring decision. (Unless you're only hiring basketball players).
 
Well, I think it is not the entrance requirements that are the constraints. It is the Purdue requirements regarding declaring a major by the end of the second year. Probably doesn't affect one and drones, but it does affect other athletes.


If you want a good laugh, check out what Ohio state basketball players take for courses. You will quickly see why OSU can bring in the players they do. They are UNC redux.

:cool:

Here's a link to all the things a kid can choose to major in at Purdue.
Athletic training, video games, film and video, etc. etc,
There are more than enough majors that will allow someone to remain eligible.

http://www.admissions.purdue.edu/majors/majors_az.php

Do you still want to tell me that academics or even having to 'declare' a major is a hindrance to recruiting at Purdue? Try again.....
 
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I'm calling BS on this comment. I don't believe it for a second.

So, can you name all the athletes that played at UNC for the last 15 years, in all their sports?

This scandal is not confined to the 5 starters on this year's basketball team, right? How do you know which people from UNC to avoid? You had better look at their scholastic record for specific classes.

By the way, I am one of the executives that determined we need to exercise caution in hiring UNC grads, and to not take their college transcript at face value.

:cool:
 
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Here's a link to all the things a kid can choose to major in at Purdue.
Athletic training, video games, film and video, etc. etc,
There are more than enough majors that will allow someone to remain eligible.

http://www.admissions.purdue.edu/majors/majors_az.php

Do you still want to tell me that academics or even having to 'declare' a major is a hindrance to recruiting at Purdue? Try again.....
I don't doubt there are easier majors at Purdue than those you or I took. I noted there is not a "General Studies" major, which is available at a number of other BIG schools. That's my point. You must declare a major, and compete scholastically with the general student population in that major.

You should read up on what Ohio State Basketball and football players take for classes. It might pry open your eyes a bit.

:cool:
 
I don't doubt there are easier majors at Purdue than those you or I took. I noted there is not a "General Studies" major, which is available at a number of other BIG schools. That's my point. You must declare a major, and compete scholastically with the general student population in that major.

You should read up on what Ohio State Basketball and football players take for classes. It might pry open your eyes a bit.

:cool:

People will believe what they want to believe.
 
West Virginia comes to mind for me. Similar success, has some very good years, some solid years, and every once in awhile a bad year or 2. Their arena is similar to ours, and they seem to have similar problems in March.
 
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