What position matters the most in getting the number 1 guy?
- Thread starter Tommaker
- Start date
Thanks for the later clarification bc it is definitely different for college vs. nfl. NFL now would be a DE hands down. College...no question it is QB, but if a big time player has the charisma and personality to recruit other big names, like GK has done, it doesn’t matter what position they play.
The market pricing in the nfl does not suggest that DEs are more valuable than QB. You could argue that you’d rather have the number one DE instead of QB because there is a bigger gap between first and second, but it’s certainly not “give me a DE hands down” decision.
I put QB at top because I agree with everything you noted. But I voted DT because of two words: Drew Brees. My reasoning is he wasn't at the top on anybody's list (and yet he'll go down as one of the greatest QB's ever). When I think of ranked players, I think of known qualities that can be measured like size, speed, strength, quickness, etc.. With a QB that's harder to define because it can't measure things like heart and drive (favorite DB line after the loss to USC to the Texas recruiter who passed him over but complimented him on the game: "Guys like YOU are why I wanted to WIN this game!") But with a fast monster DT who slams through lines, and clogs up the middle, you have a much better idea of what you're getting.
Incidentally, I am pleased as punch with George (even though his grandparents owe me a carpet cleaning fee) who looks like he's now number 1 at his position, and the only reason I didn't put DE is I think teams can "play away" from the position. A lot tougher to do that with a DT, especially if it's taking 2 or 3 guys to slow him down.
As I Mature (read; edge closer to senility) I honestly have learned to appreciate what a good kicker can do for you. The ability to kick it through the endzone 90% of the time or put your rolling punt inside the five are powerful tools, especially if you're playing a game of field position (which is every game). I suppose most of my ire is directed at "you had ONE job" field goal kickers. I was at the Purdue/OSU rainy, wet, cold mess-of-a-game where Travis had the slightly longer than a chip shot game winner blocked...by the back of the offensive lineman in front of him. Yeah, I was also at the "Minny Miracle" where he got the kick off with zero ticks left on the clock, but in my opinionated, narrow, prejudiced view, he lost more big games for us than he won. Which weighs heavier for me than leaving Purdue as the all-time points leader (I think?)
I put other to represent offensive lineman. USC's offensive line has made a lot of mediocre QBs look like Heisman trophy candidates. If Purdue's previous QBs had time to throw, they also would look great.
I was going to add an OT option, but looking at what Purdue has been known for (passing), I couldn't justify the best pass blocker as what the team would need the most. A road grader hole/lane opener would also be nice, but you still need a pretty good RB to get see and get through the holes. Ideally the guy who is number 1 at both would be a fantastic get, I just couldn't see him being better than the other listed positions.
Also, you can’t build an OL with just one guy. As good as Orlando Pace was (arguably the greatest college tackle of all time), if he had the offensive line from Hazel’s first two years...the offense still does nothing.
I know. You'd need more than one. But I was thinking of somebody like tony mandarich at MSU and Dennis LIck at UW. A RB could just get right behind them and he would flatten people for the next 5-8 yards
Mandarich was the most dominant tackle I've ever seen play college football.
Mandarich would drive guys five to seven yards off the line on pretty much every running play. Lorenzo White carried it about 50+ times against us and was unstoppable. Never saw a guy finish off guys like Mandarich.
Pace leveled everyone he played against. The “pancake” block was him.
Who cares if you drive them. Put them on their ass
We may disagree on this, but Pace couldn't hold Mandarichs jock strap as seniors in college.
Admittedly Mandarich was on a lot of steroids, but you could run your entire offense behind him . He was big and full of road rage. Normally I'd go with a QB as #1, but if you had a chance at an OL like him, you build your team around him. UW had several similar players and they ran over everybody. Unlike mediocre QBs, you remember the elite linemen.
Mandarich was a roided up tub of lard. He regularly got hurt because his body couldn’t handle the hardcore injections he regularly received. Pace had a much better career.
This is totally true! However at MSU where they never tested for steroids or other drugs, he was a beast!
No question Pace was the better pro, but Mandarich was the better amateur. I watched Mandarich abuse us so bad that Scott Conover had to switch to offense after three years on the defensive side. Lol! Conover was drafted and did play pro ball I believe.
They do now - primarily because of players like Manderich. Maybe not at MSU, but at all other ethical programs. Tony was bad in two ways. He was a monster on the field both physically and mentally while taking his steroids at MSU . He was extreme road rage in cleats .
My opinion remains the same with Pace. If you go out and recruit five 5* offensive lineman first, you can find a 3/4* QB who will excel behind them.
And looking back, I doubt Drew Brees was the first commit of his class. High school QB ratings are rather subjective. There are many 3* QBs coming out of high school who are every bit as good as the 5* players. They just lacked the exposure.
