Villanova
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Current team -Top 7 scorers on rivals ranking : 84, 74, 57, 42, 20, 85, 95 on this team. In the past Villanova has recruited #10, 20, 22, 27, 28 all 5 star players just to name a few to its teams. How many NBA - I do not know.
The difference between this guy and Painter is Villanova has had the ability to both land and then utilize some real nice guard recruits as you can see from the rankings of some of his current and past players and then the subsequent play on the floor, not only with this team but past teams.
The difference between this guy and Painter is Villanova has had the ability to both land and then utilize some real nice guard recruits as you can see from the rankings of some of his current and past players and then the subsequent play on the floor, not only with this team but past teams.
they have consistently been recruiting top players. Let's not pretend this is a roster full of scrubs. This is what consistent high level recruiting gets you. so ya...They are experienced and talented. Wow what a surprise they are good...Maybe if we weren't running off the Bryson's and Kendall's of the world, we would be too.
Kris Jenkins 4* ranked 1 spot above bryson scott...
Josh Hart 4* ranked just below bryson scott...
Ochefu 4* top 50
Archi 4* #57
Brunson 5*
Kris Jenkins 4* ranked 1 spot above bryson scott...
Josh Hart 4* ranked just below bryson scott...
Ochefu 4* top 50
Archi 4* #57
Brunson 5*
3 top 50 guys and 4 top 100 overall as your key rotation PLUS good coaching = chance for a title run. Wright has been to 3 elite 8's, 2 final 4's and won 4 league championships. Obviously not a perfect coach (who is) with some early exits, but a very good one nonetheless.
Their entire Villanova top 7 in their rotation was either a 4 star or 5 star on Rivals. Here's their rankings, players ordered by average minutes per game.
2015 -Villanova
1. Ryan Arcidiacono - #57 (4 star)
2. Josh Hart - #84 (4 star)
3. Kris Jenkins - #74 (4 star)
4. Jalen Brunson - #20 (5 star)
5. Daniel Ochefu - #42 (4 star)
6. Phil Booth - #85 (4 star)
7. Mikal Bridges - #95 (4 star)
Average = 65
Villanova continues a streak that has been in existence since the beginning of Rivals recruiting rankings. Since 2006, every national title winner has had at least 2 top 50 recruits in its top 7 rotation. As a point of reference, Purdue hasn't had 2 top 50 recruits in its top 7 rotation since Etwaun Moore and Jajuan Johnson were on campus.
2015 -Villanova
1. Ryan Arcidiacono - #57 (4 star)
2. Josh Hart - #84 (4 star)
3. Kris Jenkins - #74 (4 star)
4. Jalen Brunson - #20 (5 star)
5. Daniel Ochefu - #42 (4 star)
6. Phil Booth - #85 (4 star)
7. Mikal Bridges - #95 (4 star)
Average = 65
Villanova continues a streak that has been in existence since the beginning of Rivals recruiting rankings. Since 2006, every national title winner has had at least 2 top 50 recruits in its top 7 rotation. As a point of reference, Purdue hasn't had 2 top 50 recruits in its top 7 rotation since Etwaun Moore and Jajuan Johnson were on campus.
Yes, to an extent. But when you're looking at the difference between #40 and #80 - it's typically not some obvious output. Buddy Hield was a #86 recruit, for example. There's a lot that goes into it - most guys do not reach their full potential by age 17.
So being able to continue to develop is a risk.
Some people will develop more than others, obviously. For example, Terone Johnson was a top 50 recruit, similarly ranked to E'twaun. But after four years, you wouldn't put them anywhere near each other.
I just heard on ESPN radio while driving this afternoon that Villanova could be the first team in 26 years to not have a lottery pick on their roster and win the championship. I could be mis-quoting the term "lottery pick" they may have said top 10 pick or something like that. Point being this is unusual to not have a "top draft pick" and win the title. They have many very good college players on that team and play very well together.
So does anybody want to address the question? Not looking to have another Painter turf war. Just thought it was a rule of thumb commonly cited that you need 2-3 NBA guys to win a championship. Did Nova buck the trend with a roster full of "near NBA talent" or do they truly have 2 or 3 draft picks? I heard a talk radio show this morning saying they didn't think Arci's game would translate to the NBA.
there were a lot of things I liked about Bryson and there were things I wish were different. That said, when he decided to leave Purdue (and before he recognized he made a mistake) no remotely close to Purdue programs were interested, I'm sure that Hart and Jenkins could get major offers. So, the comparison between Bryson and them with star power is not represented by other coaches. I wish Purdue had Bryson and Bryson knows now what he does. Perhaps then Bryson would be appropriately ranked between Jenkins and Hart? Bryson left on his own and GBryson has publicly admitted it was a mistake. I would love to see Bryson become the player Bryson desires...
they play great team D, put alot of pressure on the guy w/ the ball, they like to have 3 guys on the side of the court in which the ball is on, and had 4 sr.'s which I think is a big help to go along w/ great guard play. Wright recruits well but he asks recruits to buy into his system . Some do and some in the past haven't or weren't interested in choosing Nova. When he recruited Kris Jenkins older brother, his brother told Jay to look hard at Kris because he has a great shot. Kris was 35 to 40 lbs overweight and Jay told him I'll take you you but you have to get into shape. Jay believes in conditioning , running, and other cardio work on off days. In regards to Archi, he reminds me of a poor man's Hornacek, may get a look in the NBA.
Neither of the guys you mentioned that we "ran off" would have seen the floor for either team last night.
The first 8 min. of the second half they held UNC to 7 or 8 points and that was a big plus to winning. Also shooting 58% for the game from the field. good team and they played like a #2.
Apparently just Hart, 2017 second rounder.
Also found ....
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/ton...onship-game-has-a-historic-lack-of-nba-talent
the plays that ended the first half were big too. UNC had a big miss a contested layup then Nova turns that into a made last shot before half, a 4 point swing.
Reminds me a little bit of Maryland, 2002.....Juan Dixon, Blake, Wilcox, and co.....guys played in the NBA but no "lottery-type" pick.
I could see Jenkins....maybe Ochefu.....possibly Hart getting some opportunities. Not sure about Arcidiacono. Booth and Bridges....were huge components in this tournament run as well as the other starters. Brunson is really really good, but he wasn't immune from some "freshman" mistakes.
Very good team.......really played tough D and smart ball.......well-deserving champions of the tournament....thought I heard somewhere where Nova had the 3rd toughest draw since going to 64. Beat Miami (#3), Kansas (#1), Oklahoma (#2), and UNC (#1)......not bad.....at all. Arguably took out the three other best teams in the tourney in succession.....
Not trying to be inflamitory but did Bryson and Kendal not make the choice to leave on their own? They were not Creaned. Kendal actually has an open door to return. You could argue that they were run off by lack of playing time but that imply's willful intent to get rid of player's at the detriment to your own team. I don't buy it.
I've never thought you needed 2-3 NBA guys... I've always thought you needed top college talent, which often translates to NBA guys, but not always. JJ was a unanimous AA his senior year, and flamed out in the NBA. They don't have to go together.
I just mean we are perpetually young, because the types of players that should be the ones carrying your program are instead leaving. None of these guys was head and shoulders above Bryson or Kendall in high school. So why do our recruits not bloom? You can't sit there and tell me this isn't a different team with developed upperclassmen guards giving us a solid 25-30 minutes a game. Instead we trot out pj and cline, who really should have been playing very small roles this year.
Once again, that is not Painter's problem. Bryson has openly said he made a mistake transferring, probably due to his pride getting in the way. Had he stayed, he would have played a huge role on this team...but that was his own choice. The same can be said for Stephens as Painter isn't pushing him out the door. Look at the in game results and Kendall wasn't producing, as a whole, to the level that Mathias was. When that coupled with Kendall taking an extended leave from the team, that gave Cline the ability to get more in game experience and move ahead of Kendall. Kendall would have the chance to increase his playing time if he spent the time improving his game, but he may see that his chances of passing Mathias, Cline, and Edwards for playing time are less than ideal...hence him looking at transfer options.
It absolutely is Painter's problem. Maybe RJ was a head case. Maybe Scott made a bad decision and left. Maybe Stephens just wasn't cut out for major college bball. Regardless, it's completely on Painter to get the right kids in here, develop them, and get them to contribute. Let's look at the 1's and 2's Painter has landed the past 6-7 years (not including 5th years or guys who couldn't transfer out):
2009- Barlow (talented head case who left early)
2009- Byrd (Sometimes a 4, but including as he should have been a 2/3 but we didn't have a talented frontcourt. Not special but solid)
2010- Anthony Johnson (contributed little and transferred)
2010- TJ (never lived up to his ranking but a solid player on very poor teams)
2012- RJ (talented but only ok results, left early)
2012- RD (like Byrd, not always in the backcourt. Above average thanks to his D but very frustrating on O save the MSU game this year)
2013- Scott (talented but only ok results, left early)
2013- Stephens (really talented, never really developed, left early)
2014- Mathias (solid young player, 5.2 ppg and 40% from the field as a sophomore... not a good B1G starter yet but hopefully can get there)
2014- PJ (good backup PG at this point in his career and glad he's on the team. Forced to be starter due to lack of options)
2015- Weatherford (redshirted and then transferred, which seems odd to lose a year like that)
2015- Cline (4 pts and 36% from the field as a frosh... has time to get better and certainly hope he does)
When 6 of the past 12 "guards" or guard type players recruited as freshman transfer early, regardless of the reasons, it's pretty hard to be successful and win in the NCAA tournament. Then add it that of the 6 that stayed, TJ and RD have been the best, it's very frustrating. Over the past 7 recruiting classes, Painter has not been good at all with landing, developing and keeping talented guards.
Yes even if painter isn't the cause for guys leaving, that much turnover is a problem he is stuck dealing with.
And it becomes a compounding issue when it continues to occur.
Such unbalanced classes can be great for a recruiting year like 2017, but the the pressure is really on to get them then - and even the most ardent painter supporters continually point to his recruiting/lack of talent.
Other schools may have more turnover, but u our guys aren't leaving to go pro - they're going to places like
Ipfw
Iupui
Uic
Niu
App St
Depaul
Houston
Even DII
I mean, I don't know how many circles we can go around. Now we're talking about upperclassmen guards?
We have plenty of upperclassmen that bloom. AJ and Raphael were four year players who went from last place in the Big 10 to being starters on a ranked team.
Recruiting is a cycle. Two years ago, we had a losing season and basically re-modeled the entire program. Those guys that came in the year after that housecleaning were sophomores this year - and Vince, Mathias, Haas and Thompson will be upperclassmen next season.
It seems like a long time ago, but it's not really surprising we would still have some holes in our upperclassmen.
This thread is about Villanova's roster construction. The whole point is that nova's recruiting has NOT been a cycle and has been consistent, and they've built very strong teams around guys that are ranked around where our guys were ranked. If you are going in circles it's all on your end...
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