Understanding what makes a great college basketball program

[Purdue85]

If you haven't listened to Friday's (1/15/21) Dan Dakich show, you need to. (Link to the 1/15 Dan Dakich show)

He goes about laying out, piece by piece, exactly why IU basketball is "inept" (his words).

He explains how/why Purdue basketball has an identity, and IU basketball (like many other programs) does not.

It's not about getting the "best" (highest-rated) recruits. It's not about talent.

He argues that there is not a guy on IU's roster that would start for Purdue. He makes it clear that's not a statement on talent, it's a statement on their play, their winning attitude, and the underpinnings of the program.

Many folks who post here should take note: he loves Matt Painter because Matt Painter is a great COACH, who has established the foundation of a great PROGRAM. Many other coaching names (pick your flavor of the day) have not.

The bonus feature is a conversation with Matt Painter as he closes the show.

It's well worth your time. And, there are lessons for life sprinkled all throughout, if you really pay attention.

 

[boilerHup]

Dakich is right about a lot of things, but he's wrong about IU needing an "IU guy". They need a guy capable of slaughtering sacred cows. I think at this point anyone who came up in the Knight system has bought into the cargo cult that surrounds the candy-stripe pants and the no-name jerseys and the banners.

I mean, Purdue has some neat traditions, too, but we aren't smelling our own farts over them. If Matt Painter was abducted by aliens and we replaced him with an up-and-comer like Craig Smith and Craig Smith wanted to paint over "Time To Play Hard" on the wall at Mackey, you might hear some grumbling, but it wouldn't be anything near the shitshow that would ensue if IU's next coach decided to change the color of their warmup pants.

Think about that. People would launch a grassroots campaign to get the university president to step in and dictate to the coach the color of the pants the players wear during warmups. Don't act like it wouldn't happen.

If the rich alumni donors had told Bob Knight in 1971 that his uniforms had to look a certain way, I don't think there's any way he would have done anything other than say, "Screw you, it's my program, we'll do things my way, and I'm going to win so many games that you're going to have no choice but to pretend like you always loved me."

But no, they keep hiring guys who try to baptize the current regime with the trappings of the old one, as if the paint on the court or the song that gets played during a particular timeout are what made the program great. You know what makes for a winning program? Wins. "I don't understand why we aren't winning. This is Indiana. We have five banners and candy-stripe pants." It's cargo cult basketball. If the players look the same and the court looks the same and the band looks the same, then by God it must be the coach's fault! Never mind that under Knight all of those things changed right before IU went on their 11-year streak as a national power.

No matter who their next coach is, I guarantee you'll hear, "There's great tradition here at Indiana, and we're going to do our best to live up to it." Music to this Purdue fan's ears, as it tells me they are going to continue to wallow in mediocrity. They'd be much better off with, "You guys have sucked for the past 20 years, but now I'm here to straighten things out." If the next guy doesn't have the ego to be able to say that, he doesn't have what it takes to survive in Bloomington.

 

[Do Dah Day]

whew ... eee ... daumn!!!! what does Dakich really think LOL

 

[DAG10]

Dakich is right about a lot of things, but he's wrong about IU needing an "IU guy". They need a guy capable of slaughtering sacred cows. I think at this point anyone who came up in the Knight system has bought into the cargo cult that surrounds the candy-stripe pants and the no-name jerseys and the banners.

I mean, Purdue has some neat traditions, too, but we aren't smelling our own farts over them. If Matt Painter was abducted by aliens and we replaced him with an up-and-comer like Craig Smith and Craig Smith wanted to paint over "Time To Play Hard" on the wall at Mackey, you might hear some grumbling, but it wouldn't be anything near the shitshow that would ensue if IU's next coach decided to change the color of their warmup pants.

Think about that. People would launch a grassroots campaign to get the university president to step in and dictate to the coach the color of the pants the players wear during warmups. Don't act like it wouldn't happen.

If the rich alumni donors had told Bob Knight in 1971 that his uniforms had to look a certain way, I don't think there's any way he would have done anything other than say, "Screw you, it's my program, we'll do things my way, and I'm going to win so many games that you're going to have no choice but to pretend like you always loved me."

But no, they keep hiring guys who try to baptize the current regime with the trappings of the old one, as if the paint on the court or the song that gets played during a particular timeout are what made the program great. You know what makes for a winning program? Wins. "I don't understand why we aren't winning. This is Indiana. We have five banners and candy-stripe pants." It's cargo cult basketball. If the players look the same and the court looks the same and the band looks the same, then by God it must be the coach's fault! Never mind that under Knight all of those things changed right before IU went on their 11-year streak as a national power.

No matter who their next coach is, I guarantee you'll hear, "There's great tradition here at Indiana, and we're going to do our best to live up to it." Music to this Purdue fan's ears, as it tells me they are going to continue to wallow in mediocrity. They'd be much better off with, "You guys have sucked for the past 20 years, but now I'm here to straighten things out." If the next guy doesn't have the ego to be able to say that, he doesn't have what it takes to survive in Bloomington.

Spot on and very well-stated...ironic (or maybe not so much) that someone on this side of the rivalry understands it so much more/better than literally ANYONE on the other side of it...I am good with that though, as, to your point, it is in Purdue's favor that way.

 

[tjreese]

Dakich is right about a lot of things, but he's wrong about IU needing an "IU guy". They need a guy capable of slaughtering sacred cows. I think at this point anyone who came up in the Knight system has bought into the cargo cult that surrounds the candy-stripe pants and the no-name jerseys and the banners.

I mean, Purdue has some neat traditions, too, but we aren't smelling our own farts over them. If Matt Painter was abducted by aliens and we replaced him with an up-and-comer like Craig Smith and Craig Smith wanted to paint over "Time To Play Hard" on the wall at Mackey, you might hear some grumbling, but it wouldn't be anything near the shitshow that would ensue if IU's next coach decided to change the color of their warmup pants.

Think about that. People would launch a grassroots campaign to get the university president to step in and dictate to the coach the color of the pants the players wear during warmups. Don't act like it wouldn't happen.

If the rich alumni donors had told Bob Knight in 1971 that his uniforms had to look a certain way, I don't think there's any way he would have done anything other than say, "Screw you, it's my program, we'll do things my way, and I'm going to win so many games that you're going to have no choice but to pretend like you always loved me."

But no, they keep hiring guys who try to baptize the current regime with the trappings of the old one, as if the paint on the court or the song that gets played during a particular timeout are what made the program great. You know what makes for a winning program? Wins. "I don't understand why we aren't winning. This is Indiana. We have five banners and candy-stripe pants." It's cargo cult basketball. If the players look the same and the court looks the same and the band looks the same, then by God it must be the coach's fault! Never mind that under Knight all of those things changed right before IU went on their 11-year streak as a national power.

No matter who their next coach is, I guarantee you'll hear, "There's great tradition here at Indiana, and we're going to do our best to live up to it." Music to this Purdue fan's ears, as it tells me they are going to continue to wallow in mediocrity. They'd be much better off with, "You guys have sucked for the past 20 years, but now I'm here to straighten things out." If the next guy doesn't have the ego to be able to say that, he doesn't have what it takes to survive in Bloomington.

I think in spite of how some view Knight he had substance in many players on many teams. This is not to suggest it was 100%, but there was more substance then than since...at least it appears that way to me. Accurate or not it seems there are more me players wanting the attention as individuals outside perhaps the Sampson years...and amplified with Crean who almost blew a 10 point lead in the final minute or so today...

 

[ChoiceBeef]

This was an epic rant by Dan and he knows what is wrong with the program. I don’t care that anyone at IU ignores him because I like them being a dumpster fire.

If you want to know when the rivalry changed it was 1/30/12. We got our teeth kicked in by IU at Mackey. This was when Sheehey said we weren’t their rivals. Since then we are 13-2. One team took it to heart.

Matt’s post game comment.
"They played harder than us, they played better than us and at the end, those guys out there were having fun. That's what it's all about, that's what happens when you play hard."

 

[BoilerAndy]

This was an epic rant by Dan and he knows what is wrong with the program. I don’t care that anyone at IU ignores him because I like them being a dumpster fire.

If you want to know when the rivalry changed it was 1/30/12. We got our teeth kicked in by IU at Mackey. This was when Sheehey said we weren’t their rivals. Since then we are 13-2. One team took it to heart.

Matt’s post game comment.
"They played harder than us, they played better than us and at the end, those guys out there were having fun. That's what it's all about, that's what happens when you play hard."

"If you want to know when the rivalry changed it was 1/30/12. We got our teeth kicked in by IU at Mackey. This was when Sheehey said we weren’t their rivals. Since then we are 13-2. One team took it to heart."

Sheehey was a prophet. It truly is hard to call it a rivalry.

I thought about that game yesterday when the Boilers came charging down the court with the last possession, unchallenged, and classy Painter told them to hold up. With 4 seconds left, the humbled hoosiers were already walking off the court.

 

[Purdue85]

This was an epic rant by Dan and he knows what is wrong with the program. I don’t care that anyone at IU ignores him because I like them being a dumpster fire.

If you want to know when the rivalry changed it was 1/30/12. We got our teeth kicked in by IU at Mackey. This was when Sheehey said we weren’t their rivals. Since then we are 13-2. One team took it to heart.

Matt’s post game comment.
"They played harder than us, they played better than us and at the end, those guys out there were having fun. That's what it's all about, that's what happens when you play hard."

That "rant" by Dan Dakich wasn't just a wake up call to IU, it should serve notice to any other program in America.

Namely, Purdue.

Any Purdue fan who casually calls for the replacement of Matt Painter for the latest coaching fad... any Purdue fan who spouts off in a hissy fit after an early-season loss... any Purdue fan who gets p*ssed when we don't achieve that fake milestone (a "Final Four")... Dan's entire broadcast should serve as a reminder to WHO and WHAT we are.

If you want to wander aimlessly, with no program definition, searching for "The Next Big Thing" that will satisfy you ..... look at IU. If you want that, you're following the wrong program.

 

[purduepat1969]

That "rant" by Dan Dakich wasn't just a wake up call to IU, it should serve notice to any other program in America.

Namely, Purdue.

Any Purdue fan who casually calls for the replacement of Matt Painter for the latest coaching fad... any Purdue fan who spouts off in a hissy fit after an early-season loss... any Purdue fan who gets p*ssed when we don't achieve that fake milestone (a "Final Four")... Dan's entire broadcast should serve as a reminder to WHO and WHAT we are.

If you want to wander aimlessly, with no program definition, searching for "The Next Big Thing" that will satisfy you ..... look at IU. If you want that, you're following the wrong program.

I'll agree with everything you've said here except your "fake milestone" comment. Achieving a Final Four or a National Championship is an epic milestone, whether you agree with it or not. It doesn't justify losing your identity over it. But its a goal every program should strive toward. Again, I'm not suggesting Purdue should compromise on it's morals or identities. But if you're complacent about not having achieved it, you've already lost.

 

[Purdue85]

I'll agree with everything you've said here except your "fake milestone" comment. Achieving a Final Four or a National Championship is an epic milestone, whether you agree with it or not. It doesn't justify losing your identity over it. But its a goal every program should strive toward. Again, I'm not suggesting Purdue should compromise on it's morals or identities. But if you're complacent about not having achieved it, you've already lost.

In all the points I made, nowhere did you read that it shouldn't be a goal. Nowhere. You're trying to find something with which you can argue. In the absence of finding that, you're trying to create something.

The "FF" absolutely is a fake milestone. If Painter made a FF and lost the first game, the same people would be moving the goal post and droning on about Painter not being able to win it all. I could go on, but my point is spot on.

If you have to set up a straw man argument that I'm complacent, you've already lost. If you think me not b*tching, p*ssing and moaning on an internet forum about Painter not winning one more game (from E8 to FF) is being "complacent", you're trying to characterize me in such a way to create something disagreeable within what I wrote.

And, the "... you've already lost" is a meaningless, throw away phrase.

 

[Wolegib]

I recall a time when many Purdue posters dissed Dakish as knowing less than myself. it's interesting after he says something positive about the program how smart he has become.

 

[purduepat1969]

In all the points I made, nowhere did you read that it shouldn't be a goal. Nowhere. You're trying to find something with which you can argue. In the absence of finding that, you're trying to create something.

The "FF" absolutely is a fake milestone. If Painter made a FF and lost the first game, the same people would be moving the goal post and droning on about Painter not being able to win it all. I could go on, but my point is spot on.

If you have to set up a straw man argument that I'm complacent, you've already lost. If you think me not b*tching, p*ssing and moaning on an internet forum about Painter not winning one more game (from E8 to FF) is being "complacent", you're trying to characterize me in such a way to create something disagreeable within what I wrote.

And, the "... you've already lost" is a meaningless, throw away phrase.

You love the term "straw man". Is that one of your buzzwords you learned somewhere? You really have issues with people disagreeing with you on anything. It would be "interesting" working for you in the business world. And BTW, you're trying to create a "straw man" in that you believe that my comment about complacency referred to you. It didn't...😁

 

[mathboy]

I recall a time when many Purdue posters dissed Dakish as knowing less than myself. it's interesting after he says something positive about the program how smart he has become.

I don’t think “many” Purdue posters would have posted this tripe. Probably one made the funny statement, but the humor seems lost on you. On the other hand, it was a creative way to turn the thread to being about you rather than the game.

 

[Purdue85]

You love the term "straw man". Is that one of your buzzwords you learned somewhere? You really have issues with people disagreeing with you on anything. It would be "interesting" working for you in the business world. And BTW, you're trying to create a "straw man" in that you believe that my comment about complacency referred to you. It didn't...😁

Straw man ... it's what you did. You tried to concoct an argument to argue against.

It is what it is, bro.

Your comment about complacency was directly in response to my point, and you wrote the phrase, "if you're complacent...". If you wrote that in error and used poor grammar, no sweat. Own it, instead of blaming someone else.

 

[Wolegib]

I don’t think “many” Purdue posters would have posted this tripe. Probably one made the funny statement, but the humor seems lost on you. On the other hand, it was a creative way to turn the thread to being about you rather than the game.

it's not about me mathboy, it's about you. I'm calling you and your friends out. Just look in the archives to see how many times you dissed Dakich and his columns. and now after he finally says something good about Purdue, you think he's great and all knowing and agree with him. That's what most would call being a flip flop artist.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I recall a time when many Purdue posters dissed Dakish as knowing less than myself. it's interesting after he says something positive about the program how smart he has become.

Dakich has historically been very complimentary of Painter and the Boilermakers. Why would many Purdue posters say he doesn't know anything? Are you confusing this board with the Hoosiers board?

 

[purduepat1969]

Straw man ... it's what you did. You tried to concoct an argument to argue against.

It is what it is, bro.

Your comment about complacency was directly in response to my point, and you wrote the phrase, "if you're complacent...". If you wrote that in error and used poor grammar, no sweat. Own it, instead of blaming someone else.

"You're" didn't refer to you, it was short for "If your program is complacent"...

 

[Wolegib]

Dakich has historically been very complimentary of Painter and the Boilermakers. Why would many Purdue posters say he doesn't know anything? Are you confusing this board with the Hoosiers board?

Just look at the archives! Not the past week. How many times have people here complained about the coverage from Indy!

 

[mathboy]

Just look at the archives! Not the past week. How many times have people here complained about the coverage from Indy!

it's not about me mathboy, it's about you. I'm calling you and your friends out. Just look in the archives to see how many times you dissed Dakich and his columns. and now after he finally says something good about Purdue, you think he's great and all knowing and agree with him. That's what most would call being a flip flop artist.

I don’t think I’ve ever dissed Dakich to tell you the truth. I really don’t care about him that much one way or the other. Furthermore, I don’t think very many of the folks here do either. I do think you are confusing this board with the IU free board.

 

[Purdue85]

"You're" didn't refer to you, it was short for "If your program is complacent"...

So, it was a spelling error. "You're" = "you are"

👍

 

[Purdue85]

I don’t think I’ve ever dissed Dakich to tell you the truth. I really don’t care about him that much one way or the other. Furthermore, I don’t think very many of the folks here do either. I do think you are confusing this board with the IU free board.

You're wasting your time.

Bigs has to rag on Purdue fans.

Look at how many times Bigs rags on Purdue fans, then agrees with them.

He's a flip flop artist.

😁

 

[BoilerAndy]

Just look at the archives! Not the past week. How many times have people here complained about the coverage from Indy!

Someone needs attention. Sorry I bit.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

You're wasting your time.

Bigs has to rag on Purdue fans.

Look at how many times Bigs rags on Purdue fans, then agrees with them.

He's a flip flop artist.

😁

Poor guy is leading a boring life and is looking for some attention.