Tom Cotton on Gitmo
- Thread starter gr8indoorsman
- Start date
Seems to me to just be another right wing nut job, of which, sadly, too many have been elected to Congress in 2014.
Isn't he the same guy who said that ISIS will attack us by collaborating with the illegal immigrants and Mexican drug cartels to take over Arkansas?
I hope that he is right. tic
What an idiot. How many more fools, besides those on this message board, are going to give this guy any legitimacy?
This country is going down the $hitter faster than those who give this guy the time of day.
America is doomed as long as we put these types of imbeciles in office.
It's time for a reality check, America.
God help us
Isn't he the same guy who said that ISIS will attack us by collaborating with the illegal immigrants and Mexican drug cartels to take over Arkansas?
I hope that he is right. tic
What an idiot. How many more fools, besides those on this message board, are going to give this guy any legitimacy?
This country is going down the $hitter faster than those who give this guy the time of day.
America is doomed as long as we put these types of imbeciles in office.
It's time for a reality check, America.
God help us
But, as Time magazine reports,
federal officials have repeatedly stated that there is no active plot
or operational threat that would entail ISIS infiltrating the southern
border.
Well, one thing I had hoped the US learned from 9-11 was to not wait until plots are active and threats are operational to actually act and do something to prevent them from happening. Once the plots or threats get to that level it is to late.
Nothing in what you linked was that far off-
-Terror groups use oil money, money from wealthy middle east countries/families, and money from drug trade and human trafficking to support their operations. The cartels are also into drug trade and human trafficking. Cartels also use terror to as a means for control. A collaboration is just not that far off.
-Drug cartels use illegal immigrants to smuggle money, weapons, drugs, etc across the border. This is public knowledge. Why would not terror groups try the same thing?
Especially over the last year there has been some smoke that these groups might start working together. Not sure why this is such a right wing nutjob.
-I would think everyone would want to prevent another mad rush of children at the border crossing. Cannot blame for him wanting to secure it.
federal officials have repeatedly stated that there is no active plot
or operational threat that would entail ISIS infiltrating the southern
border.
Well, one thing I had hoped the US learned from 9-11 was to not wait until plots are active and threats are operational to actually act and do something to prevent them from happening. Once the plots or threats get to that level it is to late.
Nothing in what you linked was that far off-
-Terror groups use oil money, money from wealthy middle east countries/families, and money from drug trade and human trafficking to support their operations. The cartels are also into drug trade and human trafficking. Cartels also use terror to as a means for control. A collaboration is just not that far off.
-Drug cartels use illegal immigrants to smuggle money, weapons, drugs, etc across the border. This is public knowledge. Why would not terror groups try the same thing?
Especially over the last year there has been some smoke that these groups might start working together. Not sure why this is such a right wing nutjob.
-I would think everyone would want to prevent another mad rush of children at the border crossing. Cannot blame for him wanting to secure it.
And you know this to be untrue how?
Your link is to a Liberal Blogger - nice but that is your stance
Probably never thought a policeman in NY would get attacked by a hatchet wielding idiot or that the Boston Marathon would get terrorized by home made pressure cooked bombs
If you knew what has been quelled before crossing the border in Texas, you may change your tune
but you don't know, so keep reading your blogs and believing all is well
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Your link is to a Liberal Blogger - nice but that is your stance
Probably never thought a policeman in NY would get attacked by a hatchet wielding idiot or that the Boston Marathon would get terrorized by home made pressure cooked bombs
If you knew what has been quelled before crossing the border in Texas, you may change your tune
but you don't know, so keep reading your blogs and believing all is well
Posted from Rivals Mobile
In that video, what did you take offense to? Was there something in there that he said that was incorrect in your opinion?
IMO, he's 100% correct that closing GTMO is based on politics, not evidence nor reason that it provides ideological propoganda which fuels terrorist organizations. He's 100% correct that those folks don't need a reason, and that whether GTMO remains open or not, they will continue to plot against us and attempt to carry out attacks. He's 100% correct that they should rot in hell, but failing that, they can rot in GTMO.
So, don't deflect. Tell me what he said or asked that was wrong?
IMO, he's 100% correct that closing GTMO is based on politics, not evidence nor reason that it provides ideological propoganda which fuels terrorist organizations. He's 100% correct that those folks don't need a reason, and that whether GTMO remains open or not, they will continue to plot against us and attempt to carry out attacks. He's 100% correct that they should rot in hell, but failing that, they can rot in GTMO.
So, don't deflect. Tell me what he said or asked that was wrong?
C'mon man
You haven't specifically stated, what you found to be incorrect about anything he said, but you have managed to invent some crap about Arkansas, to take an unwarranted cheap shot.
The country was taking that precipitous dive down the shitter, when the Dems controlled both houses of congress and the Whitehouse. Fortunately, there were enough people paying attention to return the House and Senate to Republican control, but we have to wait two more years to take the Whitehouse from the empty suit, currently occupying it.
It's humorous, that a guy who supports Pelosi, Reid and Obama has the audacity to call any other politician an imbecile.
So, in your mind, Obama crawling in bed and pulling the covers over his head, and pretending that Islamic terrorists don't exist is the ideal solution. The Left wants to ignore the problem and hope it goes away, if they even acknowledge the problem exists. Neville Chamberlin would be proud.
You haven't specifically stated, what you found to be incorrect about anything he said, but you have managed to invent some crap about Arkansas, to take an unwarranted cheap shot.
The country was taking that precipitous dive down the shitter, when the Dems controlled both houses of congress and the Whitehouse. Fortunately, there were enough people paying attention to return the House and Senate to Republican control, but we have to wait two more years to take the Whitehouse from the empty suit, currently occupying it.
It's humorous, that a guy who supports Pelosi, Reid and Obama has the audacity to call any other politician an imbecile.
perhaps
the people, most of them, left there.
What about all the people we rounded up who actually weren't doing anything wrong? You think those people, and their families, and their friends, might now have reasons for thinking differently?
Or do you believe every single person caught up and detained for years were terrorists of some sort or another?
And let's say EVERY single one WAS in fact a terrorist. Every last one. And let's say we didn't torture a single person there, and treated them like princes.
What is the perception of what we've done, and how will that affect folks out there in the world who see it as a negative symbol?
You know, pre-Bush, we treated terrorists like criminals, and the conviction rate for said criminals was pretty darn high. After, we treated them like some quasi-mix of unlawful combatants, criminals, and dusted off the commissions...and guess what happened to our conviction rate? Or the time it took/takes to process them?
You go back to treating these folks like criminals, you cycle them through, lock them away, under the normal system...GITMO would have been empty long ago, because they'd all be sitting in prison now.
the people, most of them, left there.
What about all the people we rounded up who actually weren't doing anything wrong? You think those people, and their families, and their friends, might now have reasons for thinking differently?
Or do you believe every single person caught up and detained for years were terrorists of some sort or another?
And let's say EVERY single one WAS in fact a terrorist. Every last one. And let's say we didn't torture a single person there, and treated them like princes.
What is the perception of what we've done, and how will that affect folks out there in the world who see it as a negative symbol?
You know, pre-Bush, we treated terrorists like criminals, and the conviction rate for said criminals was pretty darn high. After, we treated them like some quasi-mix of unlawful combatants, criminals, and dusted off the commissions...and guess what happened to our conviction rate? Or the time it took/takes to process them?
You go back to treating these folks like criminals, you cycle them through, lock them away, under the normal system...GITMO would have been empty long ago, because they'd all be sitting in prison now.
Re: perhaps
Why on earth does it matter if there are 30 more people pissed off at the US? Cotton is right. Those people don't need a reason, they already have one.
I don't have a problem with some of the means we used at GITMO; I have a problem with others. I don't have a problem with a small number of folks sitting in prison while we vet them as terrorists. I don't think the impact it has is going to go start some sort of revolution that doesn't already exist.
And frankly, I want those people held at as remote a location as possible for two reasons: 1) they can't infect other Americans with their ideology in our prisons; 2) they aren't threats to be broken out because it's impossible to get there.
One of those is easily correctable, the other not so much considering our prison overcrowding issues, even at the Federal level.
I have no problem treating them as POWs rather than criminals. None whatsoever. I'd even not mind straying from the Geneva accords (as we have) in the name of national security, but obviously some of the insanity down there needed to stop.
Why on earth does it matter if there are 30 more people pissed off at the US? Cotton is right. Those people don't need a reason, they already have one.
I don't have a problem with some of the means we used at GITMO; I have a problem with others. I don't have a problem with a small number of folks sitting in prison while we vet them as terrorists. I don't think the impact it has is going to go start some sort of revolution that doesn't already exist.
And frankly, I want those people held at as remote a location as possible for two reasons: 1) they can't infect other Americans with their ideology in our prisons; 2) they aren't threats to be broken out because it's impossible to get there.
One of those is easily correctable, the other not so much considering our prison overcrowding issues, even at the Federal level.
I have no problem treating them as POWs rather than criminals. None whatsoever. I'd even not mind straying from the Geneva accords (as we have) in the name of national security, but obviously some of the insanity down there needed to stop.
so you think
GITMO is an issue for "30 more people?"
Really? I can only say wow to that. GITMO is a pretty big deal both in our country and in other places. You can argue it SHOULDNT be, but it is. You can argue that NONE of the means were problematic, or some, it doesn't matter. When dealing with reputation, perception rules. IF there was some sort of legit reason for having GITMO, if it were somehow necessary, then that would be one thing. It isn't, and it wasn't.
It most certainly is not NOW. There is no remaining intelligence value whatsoever to the folks remaining.
As for infection...really? There are a lot more convicted terrorists in our prisons right now, what's a few more going to do? And you think these folks aren't going to mostly end up in the SHU? And you really think there is a real threat of a terrorist breakout?? Come on.
We aren't treating them like POWs. And POWs eventually get released. We are treating them like criminals without giving them trials...and holding them nearly indefinitely. None of these guys is nearly the bogeyman required to even stray a little bit from our ideals or the law, and none of them are nearly the bogeyman required to worry that somehow if they set foot into an American prison things will fall apart.
Zacarias Moussaoui, the "20th 9/11 hijacker," is currently sitting in a supermax in Colorado, and has been convicted for almost a decade. Which of the remaining folks at GITMO are really any worse than him?? One of them, the mastermind of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is currently going to be tried in federal court, so that's one who sooner or later will be out of GITMO.
No reason to not simply move the rest of them to various parts of the country, try them quickly, and send them off to supermaxes around the country.
GITMO is an issue for "30 more people?"
Really? I can only say wow to that. GITMO is a pretty big deal both in our country and in other places. You can argue it SHOULDNT be, but it is. You can argue that NONE of the means were problematic, or some, it doesn't matter. When dealing with reputation, perception rules. IF there was some sort of legit reason for having GITMO, if it were somehow necessary, then that would be one thing. It isn't, and it wasn't.
It most certainly is not NOW. There is no remaining intelligence value whatsoever to the folks remaining.
As for infection...really? There are a lot more convicted terrorists in our prisons right now, what's a few more going to do? And you think these folks aren't going to mostly end up in the SHU? And you really think there is a real threat of a terrorist breakout?? Come on.
We aren't treating them like POWs. And POWs eventually get released. We are treating them like criminals without giving them trials...and holding them nearly indefinitely. None of these guys is nearly the bogeyman required to even stray a little bit from our ideals or the law, and none of them are nearly the bogeyman required to worry that somehow if they set foot into an American prison things will fall apart.
Zacarias Moussaoui, the "20th 9/11 hijacker," is currently sitting in a supermax in Colorado, and has been convicted for almost a decade. Which of the remaining folks at GITMO are really any worse than him?? One of them, the mastermind of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is currently going to be tried in federal court, so that's one who sooner or later will be out of GITMO.
No reason to not simply move the rest of them to various parts of the country, try them quickly, and send them off to supermaxes around the country.
Re: so you think
That said, Cotton is right: its closure is purely political and the rationale behind it is ignorant. If you'd come out and say, "we're going to move these people to stand criminal trials and be put into supermaxes throughout the country," then fine, but they're not. They're looking at releasing some more of them back to their home countries and promising to "track them."
As to "a big deal for 30 people", sorry I was off by 40. It currently holds 142, of which 73 are approved for release. So my bad. It's a big deal for 70 people. You got me there!
Either way, I don't think the Prez will be able to get it closed in his term since it failed to get through the lame duck session. Too bad. This will affect my sleep tonight, I'm sure.
I don't have an issue with most of this, except the "wasn't" part. It probably isn't warranted any longer.
That said, Cotton is right: its closure is purely political and the rationale behind it is ignorant. If you'd come out and say, "we're going to move these people to stand criminal trials and be put into supermaxes throughout the country," then fine, but they're not. They're looking at releasing some more of them back to their home countries and promising to "track them."
As to "a big deal for 30 people", sorry I was off by 40. It currently holds 142, of which 73 are approved for release. So my bad. It's a big deal for 70 people. You got me there!
Either way, I don't think the Prez will be able to get it closed in his term since it failed to get through the lame duck session. Too bad. This will affect my sleep tonight, I'm sure.
ummm...
that was exactly what Obama proposed sooner after his first election..."to move these people to stand criminal trials and be put into supermaxes" but the republicans blocked that, and continue to block it.
It's a big deal for MORE than just the people being held. So you think GITMO only matters to the folks there, that our reputation only takes a hit for those handful of people?
SOME of them may be released...so if your point is, some of them might be released, you don't have to close GITMO for that, most of them were released already in one way or another by multiple admins, a few more may be released as well because we don't have evidence and because we can't detain them til they die without even a tiny sliver of due process.
that was exactly what Obama proposed sooner after his first election..."to move these people to stand criminal trials and be put into supermaxes" but the republicans blocked that, and continue to block it.
It's a big deal for MORE than just the people being held. So you think GITMO only matters to the folks there, that our reputation only takes a hit for those handful of people?
SOME of them may be released...so if your point is, some of them might be released, you don't have to close GITMO for that, most of them were released already in one way or another by multiple admins, a few more may be released as well because we don't have evidence and because we can't detain them til they die without even a tiny sliver of due process.
Re: ummm...
Foreign terrorists aren't required to get due process and if you look at them as POWs, they don't get released until the war is over. I don't see this war being over any time soon.
the people we captured in Afghanistan
are unlawful combatants, and yes, they do fall under Common Article 3. We do actually have some obligations, just not full POW obligations.
Furthermore, the Supreme Court has already ruled multiple times that we have some due process obligations toward the prisoners in GITMO.
As usual, you don't know WTF you are talking about.
are unlawful combatants, and yes, they do fall under Common Article 3. We do actually have some obligations, just not full POW obligations.
Furthermore, the Supreme Court has already ruled multiple times that we have some due process obligations toward the prisoners in GITMO.
As usual, you don't know WTF you are talking about.
Re: ummm...
Right, but you conveniently left out the second part, which was "release some to their home countries and track them." Kinda like what we did with the five Taliban albeit to Qatar so we could get Bergdahl back. I don't agree with that part.
Right, but you conveniently left out the second part, which was "release some to their home countries and track them." Kinda like what we did with the five Taliban albeit to Qatar so we could get Bergdahl back. I don't agree with that part.
Re: you should tell the supreme court
You are correct. I actually read about that yesterday, that during the Bush administration, they had ruled on it several times.
so what?
The fact that five were released in trade, whether you think that right or wrong, says nothing about whether we need GITMO or not.
Heck, in fact, if they were all in the normal judicial process, and not held as some weird mix of POW and unlawful combatant, they'd be in jail right now, if not convicted already, and we wouldn't have likely been able to release them as easily.
The fact that five were released in trade, whether you think that right or wrong, says nothing about whether we need GITMO or not.
Heck, in fact, if they were all in the normal judicial process, and not held as some weird mix of POW and unlawful combatant, they'd be in jail right now, if not convicted already, and we wouldn't have likely been able to release them as easily.
