To all of you bashing Painter

[BoiledSteel]

You need to read this: https://twitter.com/pilotnewsdoug (Sorry for cross posting from the football forum, but it is worth repeating).

Some key points from that twitter rant from someone in the know:

• Past player relations suck thanks to the administration
• We are pretty much last when it comes to renovations and it is turning recruits off thanks to the administration
• The failure to keep our facilities up to date is making it very hard to "sell" Purdue thanks to the administration
• Blaming Painter for this is pretty much unfounded at this point because the administration isn't doing their part
• Painter getting the results he is regardless of the crap the administration is doing is nothing short of phenomenal
  
• Basically there is a ton more going on than any of us know that is impacting all of our major sports programs and until that is fixed, we aren't going to make progress and we will continue to lose recruits because it appears as though the administration doesn't care.

Now I know that some will probably still discount that twitter feed and blame Painter, but the reality is the administration has screwed everything up. Until that is fixed, it is going to be harder to sell Purdue and thus be successful in our major sports programs. Yeah Painter was given a bigger budget but when you still have to sell facilities that are lacking, as an example, it makes it harder to impress the big time recruits and talk them in to coming here.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Lets go deeper in the tournament and show the team doesn't choke in the NCAA, that will also help. I don't like saying it, but Purdue did choke last couple years and has in the past when they should have won. Lets get that monkey off our back . Just saying it like it is.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Lets go deeper in the tournament and show the team doesn't choke in the NCAA, that will also help. I don't like saying it, but Purdue did choke last couple years and has in the past when they should have won. Lets get that monkey off our back . Just saying it like it is.

We have gone deeper but yes the last couple years weren't good. However as things are starting to come to light, that is just a small portion of the problem and will only get us so far until the main issue with the administration is resolved.

 

[mathboy]

You need to read this: https://twitter.com/pilotnewsdoug (Sorry for cross posting from the football forum, but it is worth repeating).

Some key points from that twitter rant from someone in the know:

• Past player relations suck thanks to the administration
• We are pretty much last when it comes to renovations and it is turning recruits off thanks to the administration
• The failure to keep our facilities up to date is making it very hard to "sell" Purdue thanks to the administration
• Blaming Painter for this is pretty much unfounded at this point because the administration isn't doing their part
• Painter getting the results he is regardless of the crap the administration is doing is nothing short of phenomenal
  
• Basically there is a ton more going on than any of us know that is impacting all of our major sports programs and until that is fixed, we aren't going to make progress and we will continue to lose recruits because it appears as though the administration doesn't care.

Now I know that some will probably still discount that twitter feed and blame Painter, but the reality is the administration has screwed everything up. Until that is fixed, it is going to be harder to sell Purdue and thus be successful in our major sports programs. Yeah Painter was given a bigger budget but when you still have to sell facilities that are lacking, as an example, it makes it harder to impress the big time recruits and talk them in to coming here.

I agree with this rant completely. The problem with our sports teams began under the Cordova administration and the fall out of those bad administrative and funding decisions is still affecting our ability to compete. Until the new president is able to make significant and deep changes, we will continue to be disappointed in many of our sports teams, even though we might have superior people in charge.

We have managed to fix some of the problems around basketball facilities, but we still need to invest in more. Our football facilities are not competitive with the schools we play against. Want a winning program that wins consistently? Upgrade facilities. Upgrade assistants. Simple as that.

 

[TC4THREE]

Simple-minded people want an easy problem to define so they can come up with a simple solution even if it is not the correct one. Some of what Doug pointed out was new to me but I've heard stories similar to some of that before. Basically, anyone who has ever paid attention should know that we aren't recruiting from a position of strength in basketball and football. We could have the best recruiter in the country but if we don't give him a comparable product to sell and the tools to sell it then the results aren't going to be what people here want.

 

[Heller]

I agree with this rant completely. The problem with our sports teams began under the Cordova administration and the fall out of those bad administrative and funding decisions is still affecting our ability to compete. Until the new president is able to make significant and deep changes, we will continue to be disappointed in many of our sports teams, even though we might have superior people in charge.

We have managed to fix some of the problems around basketball facilities, but we still need to invest in more. Our football facilities are not competitive with the schools we play against. Want a winning program that wins consistently? Upgrade facilities. Upgrade assistants. Simple as that.

I like you but this is bullshit. Cordova was a disaster but to imply Mitch hasn't had enough time? It's going on four years now, fix it or get the hell out.

 

[BoilerBiker]

I agree with this rant completely. The problem with our sports teams began under the Cordova administration and the fall out of those bad administrative and funding decisions is still affecting our ability to compete. Until the new president is able to make significant and deep changes, we will continue to be disappointed in many of our sports teams, even though we might have superior people in charge.

We have managed to fix some of the problems around basketball facilities, but we still need to invest in more. Our football facilities are not competitive with the schools we play against. Want a winning program that wins consistently? Upgrade facilities. Upgrade assistants. Simple as that.

Cordova may have made matters worse, but it seems a lack of commitment was long before her.

I remember reading how keady wanted upgrades during the 90s. He in part considered the San Fran job the first time in the late 90s due to feelings about the AD commitment and facilities. Then when we did start massive upgrades in 2001, it went to swimming and football before him.

Doug confirmed the rumor of tiller also not being on board with the admin either. This would have predated Cordova also.

...some references here, pages 162-172

 

[BoiledSteel]

Looks like the tweets he had have legs to it for the most part.... we've all been duped by the administration for quite some time it seems.

 

[cprh9u]

We have gone deeper but yes the last couple years weren't good. However as things are starting to come to light, that is just a small portion of the problem and will only get us so far until the main issue with the administration is resolved.

We have gone deeper? What are you talking about? Sweet 16 twice in 11 years... is that what you mean, or what am I missing?

 

[TC4THREE]

what am I missing?

The list is very long.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I like you but this is bullshit. Cordova was a disaster but to imply Mitch hasn't had enough time? It's going on four years now, fix it or get the hell out.

Mitch Daniels has done a great job with the university as a whole. I think that his focus is more on athletics and especially football now than it was for his first few years.

 

[StickPurdue]

Mitch Daniels has done a great job with the university as a whole. I think that his focus is more on athletics and especially football now than it was for his first few years.

Mitch wants to raise the academic standards and bring in more out of state and foreign students to bring in more money. He hasn't shown an inclination to bring money to the athletic program unless he can put some of that towards academics. I can't see him ever making the push to have Purdue compete for championships in the major men's sports.

 

[Heller]

Mitch Daniels has done a great job with the university as a whole. I think that his focus is more on athletics and especially football now than it was for his first few years.

He's okay. He's no Jischke or Hovde.

 

[Emartin70287]

Lets go deeper in the tournament and show the team doesn't choke in the NCAA, that will also help. I don't like saying it, but Purdue did choke last couple years and has in the past when they should have won. Lets get that monkey off our back . Just saying it like it is.

Maybe had they had one more marque recruit from an improved Purdue that they could have been the difference last year(s) and taken them far in the tournament. Shoot, had they landed a great 5th year point gaurd instead of a 2 star Johnny Hill (no disrespect) who know's Purdue's ceiling last year. Its a vicious cycle, you can't only look backwards and say we didn't go far in the tournament when we miss out on recruits. The tournament is a crapshoot, lose one game and you're out. You realize a lot of luck is involved there...

 

[Boilerkid18]

Maybe had they had one more marque recruit from an improved Purdue that they could have been the difference last year(s) and taken them far in the tournament. Shoot, had they landed a great 5th year point gaurd instead of a 2 star Johnny Hill (no disrespect) who know's Purdue's ceiling last year. Its a vicious cycle, you can't only look backwards and say we didn't go far in the tournament when we miss out on recruits. The tournament is a crapshoot, lose one game and you're out. You realize a lot of luck is involved there...

I agree with our ceiling being higher with a better PG than Hill (though he was a hard worker and great defender), but I disagree about it being mainly luck in the tournament. The most prepared team will win 9/10 and the more talented team will win 9/10. Yes, it's only single-elimination so one bad game means being sent home, but bottom line is you should beat the lower seeds period. I'll give a lot of credit to ALR for playing a great game and hitting some "lucky" shots, but we never should've been in position to lose that game.

 

[Dryfly88]

I agree with our ceiling being higher with a better PG than Hill (though he was a hard worker and great defender), but I disagree about it being mainly luck in the tournament. The most prepared team will win 9/10 and the more talented team will win 9/10. Yes, it's only single-elimination so one bad game means being sent home, but bottom line is you should beat the lower seeds period. I'll give a lot of credit to ALR for playing a great game and hitting some "lucky" shots, but we never should've been in position to lose that game.

I think you better check your tournament history. That statement is simply untrue. The higher seeded "more talented" teams do not win anywhere close to 90% of the time. If it was that simple I would be a millionaire from all the pools I would have won at work!!

One and done tournaments just don't work that way. Is it complete luck? Of course not. That's why you see very few "Cinderella" teams making it to the final four. To do so they have to win at least 4 games. But you do see many upsets during the tournament because it only requires 1 win.

I'm with you, it's frustrating as hell to see us lose in the 1st round 2 years in a row. But I've got news for you, we aren't alone. It happens a lot. Just look back at this past years tournament in the 1st round and see how many better seeds lost.

 

[Boilerkid18]

I think you better check your tournament history. That statement is simply untrue. The higher seeded "more talented" teams do not win anywhere close to 90% of the time. If it was that simple I would be a millionaire from all the pools I would have won at work!!

One and done tournaments just don't work that way. Is it complete luck? Of course not. That's why you see very few "Cinderella" teams making it to the final four. To do so they have to win at least 4 games. But you do see many upsets during the tournament because it only requires 1 win.

I'm with you, it's frustrating as hell to see us lose in the 1st round 2 years in a row. But I've got news for you, we aren't alone. It happens a lot. Just look back at this past years tournament in the 1st round and see how many better seeds lost.

I'm sorry I made a mistake in my wording in my previous post. Instead of "will win 9/10" I should have put in "should win 9/10". Based off of talent advantage as well playing better opponents on a regular basis throughout the season, the more talented team (i.e Purdue) "should" win 9/10 times. At the same time, I think if Purdue played ALR 10 times, I do believe we would win 90% of the time.

 

[Dryfly88]

I'm sorry I made a mistake in my wording in my previous post. Instead of "will win 9/10" I should have put in "should win 9/10". Based off of talent advantage as well playing better opponents on a regular basis throughout the season, the more talented team (i.e Purdue) "should" win 9/10 times. At the same time, I think if Purdue played ALR 10 times, I do believe we would win 90% of the time.

But again, that isn't what historically has happened in the tournament. Just for a second take Purdue out of it. Go back and look at the tournament for the past 15 years and see that 90% of the time the higher seed doesn't win. It just isn't that easy. First of all there is poor seeding every year, so right off the start you have some questions about who really is the "better" team. Secondly, the vast majority of these teams are good. You have some duds but by far the majority are quality teams on a neutral court (actually it can be a home court for the underdog) making it even easier for an upset.

I know you would like it to be different, but it just isn't. As long as the tournament is a one and done it will always be this way.

 

[Boilerkid18]

But again, that isn't what historically has happened in the tournament. Just for a second take Purdue out of it. Go back and look at the tournament for the past 15 years and see that 90% of the time the higher seed doesn't win. It just isn't that easy. First of all there is poor seeding every year, so right off the start you have some questions about who really is the "better" team. Secondly, the vast majority of these teams are good. You have some duds but by far the majority are quality teams on a neutral court (actually it can be a home court for the underdog) making it even easier for an upset.

I know you would like it to be different, but it just isn't. As long as the tournament is a one and done it will always be this way.

I actually would not like the tournament to be different, just wish we could go farther in the tournament is all.

 

[Dryfly88]

I actually would not like the tournament to be different, just wish we could go farther in the tournament is all.

I'm with you brother!!

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

I actually would not like the tournament to be different, just wish we could go farther in the tournament is all.

Yup. NCAA tournament is the most exciting. Wouldn't change a thing. To win you have to have some luck, good players and good coaching. Unfortunately we didn't have 2 of the 3 in the last couple of years.

 

[mathboy]

Cordova may have made matters worse, but it seems a lack of commitment was long before her.

I remember reading how keady wanted upgrades during the 90s. He in part considered the San Fran job the first time in the late 90s due to feelings about the AD commitment and facilities. Then when we did start massive upgrades in 2001, it went to swimming and football before him.

Doug confirmed the rumor of tiller also not being on board with the admin either. This would have predated Cordova also.

...some references here, pages 162-172

Agree! This has been an on-going problem for Purdue athletics. Time we fixed it.

 

[mathboy]

I like you but this is bullshit. Cordova was a disaster but to imply Mitch hasn't had enough time? It's going on four years now, fix it or get the hell out.

I agree with the "Bull Shit" comment.

I have heard about... but not seen, results of Mitch improving things. I am not happy that it is taking this long to get the ship righted, which says that there are some deeply ingrained issues, maybe on the BOD.

 

[Dryfly88]

Yup. NCAA tournament is the most exciting. Wouldn't change a thing. To win you have to have some luck, good players and good coaching. Unfortunately we didn't have 2 of the 3 in the last couple of years.

Just in the past 2 years here is a list of the coaches that got beat by a "lower" (worse) seed in the 1st round of the tournament:

Bob Huggins
Cuonzo Martin
Tom Izzo
Scott Drew (twice)
Sean Miller
Archie Miller
Shaka Smart
Fred Hoiberg
Ed Cooley
Matt Painter

I did this really quickly so I might have missed someone, but my point is that this is a pretty impressive list of coaches. Some on here have even suggested a few of them to replace CMP. I'm as frustrated as anyone about our past tournament performance, but as shown here it isn't easy. Lots of factors come into play.

 

[Cevol03]

You need to read this: https://twitter.com/pilotnewsdoug (Sorry for cross posting from the football forum, but it is worth repeating).

Some key points from that twitter rant from someone in the know:

• Past player relations suck thanks to the administration
• We are pretty much last when it comes to renovations and it is turning recruits off thanks to the administration
• The failure to keep our facilities up to date is making it very hard to "sell" Purdue thanks to the administration
• Blaming Painter for this is pretty much unfounded at this point because the administration isn't doing their part
• Painter getting the results he is regardless of the crap the administration is doing is nothing short of phenomenal
  
• Basically there is a ton more going on than any of us know that is impacting all of our major sports programs and until that is fixed, we aren't going to make progress and we will continue to lose recruits because it appears as though the administration doesn't care.

Now I know that some will probably still discount that twitter feed and blame Painter, but the reality is the administration has screwed everything up. Until that is fixed, it is going to be harder to sell Purdue and thus be successful in our major sports programs. Yeah Painter was given a bigger budget but when you still have to sell facilities that are lacking, as an example, it makes it harder to impress the big time recruits and talk them in to coming here.

Completely agree with this article that Painter is doing a great job given the issues with the BOD, AD, and Pres. For all the idiots that want to can him every time we lose a big game or lose a recruit to Izzo, there would be a long line of schools with better support/resources happy to have him if we can him.

And good luck finding a better coach to replace him. Its tough to find a coach wanting to come to a school with built in competitive disadvantages. Ask GA Tech bball fans about that - and that is not a shot at MBob.

 

[Heller]

I agree with the "Bull Shit" comment.

I have heard about... but not seen, results of Mitch improving things. I am not happy that it is taking this long to get the ship righted, which says that there are some deeply ingrained issues, maybe on the BOD.

Remember there are people who like him (and dislike him) based on his political affiliations. Truth is he has some some things that appear to be well received by many. What isn't true to me is that somehow he escapes blame for the whole sports mess.

 

[rjmpu82]

Painter isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Purdue is a tough place to recruit top athletic talent to in the major sports. Lots of things figure into that besides the coach. If Painter could get some significant wins against highly regarded teams during the regular season and get to the Elite 8 at a minimum, it would increase our reputation and athletic brand. Last year I felt the BBall program really missed an opportunity when CBS selected us as one of 5 teams to follow closely during the NCAA tournament. We flamed out in round one and lost a lot of potential exposure. Chances like that have to be taken advantage of. As far as Mitch goes, as a university president as a whole, he is outstanding. Tuition freezes and putting people to work. The students love him. I wish he were a little more on board with improving the athletic situation, but I wouldn't trade him for anyone else.

 

[BoilerBiker]

Mitch wants to raise the academic standards and bring in more out of state and foreign students to bring in more money.

But in his Sept letter....
"We were thrilled to welcome our largest freshman class in recent history, roughly 500 students larger than last fall. The 7,243 new freshmen include more Hoosiers than recent years and a record number of students from minority backgrounds, up about 17% from last year’s class. By design, we reduced the number of international students in the freshman class by about 10%, but we are very pleased that they will be a diverse group in terms of country of origin, adding to our global and dynamic student body"

 

[Inspector100]

I agree with the "Bull Shit" comment.

I have heard about... but not seen, results of Mitch improving things. I am not happy that it is taking this long to get the ship righted, which says that there are some deeply ingrained issues, maybe on the BOD.

I believe they had to find a way to let MB slide into his retirement without embarrassment. MB had some political clout during the selection of MD as president and MD didn't want to just throw him under the bus. I also believe the alumni, with the approach of making their voice heard by using their wallet, forced the BoD and President to act sooner than they planned leading to our new AD before MD actually retired.

So now the current football team is going to make the new AD act on their dismal showings starting with last weekend. It will be obvious to the AD that the new coaching staff isn't the answer. And I believe he will have the ear of the BoD to begin the fixing when this season ends. There is some very good head coaching material out there for Purdue to bring in. I just hope that this doesn't end up in another situation like the Fred Akers hiring.

I also believe that if the new AD can fix football, there will be a sufficient culture change in the relationship of athletics and the BoD that better things will happen with basketball as well.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

Just in the past 2 years here is a list of the coaches that got beat by a "lower" (worse) seed in the 1st round of the tournament:

Bob Huggins
Cuonzo Martin
Tom Izzo
Scott Drew (twice)
Sean Miller
Archie Miller
Shaka Smart
Fred Hoiberg
Ed Cooley
Matt Painter

I did this really quickly so I might have missed someone, but my point is that this is a pretty impressive list of coaches. Some on here have even suggested a few of them to replace CMP. I'm as frustrated as anyone about our past tournament performance, but as shown here it isn't easy. Lots of factors come into play.

That's the tournament for ya, but I don't think any of the above teams had a big lead with only a few minutes left in the game and lost. Our problems were handling the press and we didn't have the guard play to overcome that, but CMP could have done a lot of things to slow Little Rock momentum and he didn't do that enough. They didn't get the ball inside enough to AJ, as I remember yelling at the tube and saying get the f***king ball inside. He didn't call time out at the right time. He didn't choose to foul etc. He seems to have panic. A total bad coaching job...

 

[Dryfly88]

That's the tournament for ya, but I don't think any of the above teams had a big lead with only a few minutes left in the game and lost. Our problems were handling the press and we didn't have the guard play to overcome that, but CMP could have done a lot of things to slow Little Rock momentum and he didn't do that enough. They didn't get the ball inside enough to AJ, as I remember yelling at the tube and saying get the f***king ball inside. He didn't call time out at the right time. He didn't choose to foul etc. He seems to have panic. A total bad coaching job...

I'm not going to argue any of your strategy suggestions. I would only say that I'm sure the fan bases of the listed schools had problems with their coach in these games too. Its hard when you lose a game you think you should have won. You are correct, it's gut wrenching to lose a lead late. However, it can also be frustrating to not even be competitive in the game or to not be close at the end with a chance to win. That was the case with several of these teams listed.