This has all been wildly entertaining... I genuinely would like to thank everyone involved
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If your whole point is to convince me and others that Tom Cream is a great developer of talent, you are wasting your time
I have no idea what you replied to...teh conversation I thought was on "development of BIG" and measured by "PUTTING"players in the NBA
Well I care! There are many people on this board that actually do meet each other in real life outside this board. I've found out many people read my Facebook posts, and have introduced themselves to me simply because they read and liked my internet posts. Many people have met TReed in person and really like her. There are many people here I'd like to meet in person like Boiler Gal and DeStewart. Maybe I'll invite SI Boiler into my home. He probably already knows my real name and lives down the block from me. I live on Whippoorwill Rd. Maybe he goes to my church? Maybe he rooted for my son playing for Carterville basketball and football.
This board is not really moderated. We are supposed to be civil to all posters and moderate ourselves.
I do now understand that trying to convince myself that you have any grasp or knowledge of basketball is a waste of my time. Moving along.
Perhaps take an extra minute or two next time and see what I am replying to since I always use quote reply to give context.
Yep, the purpose of a troll is to get everybody off topic and at each others throats, the dbag accomplished his goal.
I can only assume you're inferring to TJReese as a DBag? He is the one who said the incredulous statement about IU not developing talent. That is what started this after all.
Not sure how that makes him a dbag. Wrong for sure, but dbag seems harsh.
unfortunately, I'm at work and typing between comments and such. Nothing was intended or directed at you. I'm only trying to provide real understanding of using the NBA as a development measure and tried to shift gears to education in anticipation that everyone has some background in that area.
Probably a good bet on your part switching gears. I think you were losing a lot of people not knowing what you were talking about.
just trying to provide understanding for those with more understanding in education in hope that they can connect the dots relative to "PUTTING BIGS" in the NBA as THE measure of a coach in developing talent and a reminder why I never went into teaching as a career. I just throw it out there and if you get it...fine and if not no problem...perhaps you are right?
Don’t think you have to have a grasp of the education system to see how someone like Cody Zeller’s game developed while at IU and how it correlates to where he was picked in the NBA draft. And I certainly hope you aren’t in inferring you were a basketball coach at anything higher than the Church League level?
this actually leads me to think its Not an iu troll.
they wouldn't defend him, and like him even less than we do.
youre no longer in the camp that believes message boards impact recruiting?
I tutored and taught children with learning disabilities at the elementary and college level. I know exactly what you meant. My teaching methods have often been criticized by so called intelligent people. But my reply has always been to look at the results. And many of my students never achieved a grade higher than a C, and they were still at the bottom of their class, but it was their first C they received in their life. It is those students that I am most proud of rather than the ones who averaged 98.96754%. I ften found the most talented were also the laziest and complained the most.
Rather than taking credit for developing any student, I take credit for motivating them to want to learn and improve themselves. Sometimes motivating a person is harder than teaching.
Notice I said 'our lives'. So no, what is posted here has no impact on my life.
So, you are implying that YOU are a basketball coach since you seem to simply ooze with all this basketball expertise?
Naw, probably not.
However you don’t need to resort to personal attacks to make your point, which you have yet to convince me about. No, I don’t think Crean did much player development, and that comes from a direct and knowledgeable source. (Not me).
Why do you think Crean’s relationship with Indiana’s high school coaches soured?
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No one here is convincing anyone else of anything, you might as well both stop. It's just turning into rehash after rehash of the same argument that will never end.
Never claimed that? Simply a keen observer of college basketball to call out such a nonsense and closet-minded post about IU not being able to develop bigs.
I've given you plenty of examples of Crean developing talent dating back to his Marquette days. The fallacy presented by tjreese is that he doesn't believe guys like Zeller, Vonleh, Bryant, etc developed at IU which is patently false. I wrote part time for a site while I was getting my Masters from 2010-2013 and extensively covered B10 basketball. I watched IU and Zeller a lot as they were one of the best teams in the country then. Cody Zeller as a freshman was almost exclusively used on the block as a back to the basket center. His sophomore year, his game evolved and he developed a consistent mid-range shot and a face-up game, something you need to have in the modern day NBA game for a Center. He doesn't get drafted 4th overall without that repertoire. Now you can certainly say development is a two-way street, and it is as the player not only has to have the drive, but the willingness to improve on all aspects of his game. Obviously Zeller is a very coachable player but he also had to be utilized in certain sets to show case those skills. And he was at IU. He wasn't exclusively used on the block like he was as a freshman. He ran pick and roll, he flashed to the elbow and shot mid-range jumpers, could take his man off the dribble. That is all in essence development or an evolution of his game. To think IU and/or Crean played no part in such is myopic. It's a ridiculous assumption.
And that was Crean's highest rated recruit. Look at some like Victor Oladipo, a 3* coming out high school. No doubt Victor had athleticism, but he had little to no ball skills coming into IU. The jump from his freshman year to sophomore year was an incredible and his jump from sophomore to junior was even better. He was a first team All-American, a NPOY candidate, and the second overall pick. Oladipo as a freshman was strictly a slashing guard. He couldn't shoot. He couldn't dribble. He couldn't do much of anything. But as junior he ran many of the sets in the half court, became a very reliant three point shooter, and one of the best overall players in college basketball. And to think IU or Crean played no part in that? It's mind blowing. A poster early suggested Oladipo only developed because he played in a couple Pro-Am games in Indy over the summer. Can you not see how such a ridiculous statement that is?
Look at all the All-American's under Crean. Wade, Zeller, Oladipo, Ferrell, etc. Are we really going to sit there and say coming out of high school those guys were expected to be All-American's at some point in their career?
IU fans don't like Tom Crean because he couldn't win games with the players he developed. That's coaching. That's motivating. But you won't find one IU fan that can't acknowledge Tom Crean's ability to not only develop but players in the NBA. And that was evident long before he came to IU. Wade, Diener, Novack, Matthews? None of those guys were all stars coming out of high school and all of those guys enjoyed solid NBA careers. More so than the overwhelming majority of players Painter has recruited. It's just silly to say these things because he's an old IU coach. I've always thought of Tom Crean to be a pretty lousy coach, but I would never let that cloud my judgement that he could at least develop individual players and put them in great spots to make it at the next level.
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No , no f'ing way I just started watching the last few years. BTW, I can correlate the pregnancy rate in Indianapolis with the hamburgers eaten in South Bend. Have a good day..you are too smart for me to fool.
Well, I was hopeful it would be comprehended and the quiet majority probably did.
When I wanted to know the mph I always thought it important to know not only the mileage when stopping, but that mileage I started with as well as the time that elapsed. I always had a hard time figuring that calculation with a single mileage at the end (absent the other data)...no matter how many times I did it. You are right...I showed or tried to show the problem in student gain as well. It is fine, he or she can believe what he or she wants. but the methodology is flawed. Yes, no reason to rehash it. If everyone were in agreement there would be little written...
When I wanted to know the mph I always thought it important to know not only the mileage when stopping, but that mileage I started with as well as the time that elapsed. I always had a hard time figuring that calculation with a single mileage at the end (absent the other data)...no matter how many times I did it. You are right...I showed or tried to show the problem in student gain as well. It is fine, he or she can believe what he or she wants. but the methodology is flawed. Yes, no reason to rehash it. If everyone were in agreement there would be little written...
You see.....that's what bothers me sir.....I just can't figure it out. There's 18 miles unexplained on your odometer. By the way, could I get your autograph.....my wife would get such a kick out of that. I don't want to trouble you, though....
Oh sir, just one more thing.....you know that basketball discussion we had....where you said....now, wait a minute...i got it down here somewhere.....oh that's right....yes, the one about the zone.....
I think I am gone for a while. I took some time off over the summer and came back way to early. These clowns from IU think they have found lightning in a bottle with boy wonder down south. If I wanted this kind of conversation I would go home for a visit.
It all started sir with the word "development". That told me a progress...a change...a delta. Knowing no delta can exist without a measure between at least two points I was conflicted in trying to understand "development" or "progress" without that understanding. Silly me. It just seemed sir that using a single point of measure was illogical in measuring "progress" or "development" since by definition that requires more than a final destination...hence the or at least a significant reason for struggling. Then to understand that more than one variable is needed...like a starting point in addition to a few others, the weighting of those variables seemed pretty important as well in trying to discern that relationship. And then it just got worse sir as I saw the final result that was measured again and again and still not knowing the variables and their significance to that relationship.You see.....that's what bothers me sir.....I just can't figure it out. There's 18 miles unexplained on your odometer. By the way, could I get your autograph.....my wife would get such a kick out of that. I don't want to trouble you, though....
Oh sir, just one more thing.....you know that basketball discussion we had....where you said....now, wait a minute...i got it down here somewhere.....oh that's right....yes, the one about the zone.....
I've had some Jack since then (I do have your recommendation of Makers Mark as well on hand) and with a few more drinks I could probably understand things more clearly...sir...
My son is a college track athlete. he's a decathlete. As such, he has several coaches. As an incoming freshman, he had never pole vaulted, or thrown a discuss, javelin or shot put in his life. over the course of 4 years, he "developed' into an all conference decathlete. I bring this up because he credits his assistant coaches for all of his development, and has said many times his head coach was a head case.
I bring this up because many people here are saying Crean doesn't develop his players . So I'll ask the question, how much credit should be given to a head coach for developing his players? I've heard a lot of Duke's success was due to Coach k's assistants. I've heard a lot of Purdue's previous recruiting success was due to Zo and the other assistant rather than our head coach.
I look at Haas. It's clear, he really developed his game over the past 4 years. but who should be given the credit? Haas? Painter? an assistant? If Haas would have gone to his original committed school, would have developed as much?
how much credit does a head coach really deserve? and how much should go to the player or assistants?
I bring this up because many people here are saying Crean doesn't develop his players . So I'll ask the question, how much credit should be given to a head coach for developing his players? I've heard a lot of Duke's success was due to Coach k's assistants. I've heard a lot of Purdue's previous recruiting success was due to Zo and the other assistant rather than our head coach.
I look at Haas. It's clear, he really developed his game over the past 4 years. but who should be given the credit? Haas? Painter? an assistant? If Haas would have gone to his original committed school, would have developed as much?
how much credit does a head coach really deserve? and how much should go to the player or assistants?
I don't say this often of our iu visitors, but that was funny all things considered.Because Tom Crean is a really weird dude.
Wait, was that a trick question?
This is the same guy who told Armaan Franklin’s Mom that he knew where Armaan was committing.
Would love this to actually impact his decision.
Would love this to actually impact his decision.
He said Franklin committed to Purdue 2 days ago, and that Bob Knight was going to be in attendance for the Purdue game at assembly hall this year. Dude is a major tool.
If you go through this guy's posts, he really likes to tell people how great his sources are and how he has deep ties to the IU basketball program. But, never could have predicted he would tell Armaan Franklin's mom that his sources were better than her when it comes to his recruitment. LOL You can't make this stuff up.
I actually wondered if it was @BoilerIron trolling folks but he didn’t mention anything about Mason Gillis. (TIC)
Because Tom Crean is a really weird dude.
Wait, was that a trick question?
JM, it is a fact that whenever someone from here, mathboy in particular, pointed out to the Peegsters that Crean had soured the Indiana HS coaches that was vehemently denounced as a total fabrication. Now that is accepted as absolute wisdom by the Indiana faithful. To the best of my knowledge, he (and others) was (were) never given credit for the perceived insight and recognized as having been unfairly treated. He could vouch for what I am posting as correct.
I think this would be true among all fan bases. For the most part all fans are going to defend their coach/players at all costs while they are with the organization, but after they are gone, most people will recognize their short comings.
Trojan, you obviously did not post here during the Hazell era.
I guess I should have clarified that my statement was about coaches/players that have had at least decent success while at their organization haha.
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