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I think you need to go back and look at OG's recruiting ranking. He was a 3* player that become a top 25 pick in the draft. He improved a ton while at IU. That's like saying Oladipo wasn't developed at IU.
I agree. Crean is a genius at developing talent. I still can't believe you guys ran him off.
 
JJJ was severely underutilized at MSU but was still a top 5 pick and that has everything to do with JJJ’s measurables and skill set than it does how he was used at MSU.

he was mentioned as a very top end player after one year BEFORE he went to MSU. MSU had nothing to do with him getting in the league

so basically the same arguments
 
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Relax Steel. Cheeseman is playing it straight. I have no problem with him being an IU fan. He talks basketball and is rational. If he calls out a few homers on their stuff, so be it. However, it is a Purdue board, so some homer stuff is to be expected and tolerated.
Sorry but no. a lot of his posts that have been on here seem to be the 'pointing out homer' stuff and if he doesn't like it, he can stop coming here. It is not up to an iu fan to attempt to dictate what is and isn't posted on here. Can you imagine the reception we would get if we tried something like that on peegs? Yep insta ban.

So no, I am going to continue to call him out as I see fit. If you or others don't like it, I truly and honestly couldn't care less. Him and his other iu buddies like notaboileriron deserve to be held accountable for the things they post here.
 
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I never said crean wasn't good guy. I actually think he is a great guy. I never said Purdue didnt develop talent well (and yes I agree, it's individual will power that determines how much development happens). Haas developed very nicely at Purdue, as have many other players.
...and I never ever said you said those things. Bottom line I think the talent of the individual was already there...I mean they were not the focus of the offense for IU although Zeller was a bit. You think IU was responsible for putting them in the NBA and I don't. Doesn't mean much on who is correct...perception in a lot of things carries weight...
 
When Haas signs his pro deal then the discussion is over...…

I guess I am just a positive thinking kind of Purdue guy that knows he will....he works hard and has the skill why would he not.

Give it a few weeks and then the likes of the homer Wol and all these IU trolls can STFU.....

Oh and F#$% IU, always!
 
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And we'll try it this way, if IU had nothing to do with Thomas Bryant getting drafted then I don't want to hear any Purdue fans saying Purdue or Painter had anything to do with Swanigan being drafted. If you think someone like Thomas Bryant had more NBA interest over Caleb Swanigan before they played a single game in college then you can't make that claim. If you think Cody Zeller was a top 5 NBA pick before he played a single college game then we can't have this discussion. If you think either of those players went to IU and nothing in the two years they spent there had anything to do with their development or their draft position then you can't lay that claim with Biggie.

If you can come on here and say that I'll drop this. But you will never say that Purdue or Painter didn't assist in the development of Biggie because that wouldn't fit the narrative you're pushing here with the IU bigs.
How have the rest of you not figured out this is an iu troll? Classic example, created a Purdue-centric user name, started posting last Wed. and has posted nothing but positive IU crap and argue with longtime real Purdue fans.
 
How have the rest of you not figured out this is an iu troll? Classic example, created a Purdue-centric user name, started posting last Wed. and has posted nothing but positive IU crap and argue with longtime real Purdue fans.
Oh, I knew...
 
How have the rest of you not figured out this is an iu troll? Classic example, created a Purdue-centric user name, started posting last Wed. and has posted nothing but positive IU crap and argue with longtime real Purdue fans.

I don't owe you anything but I was born and raised a Boiler fan in Tippecanoe Co and didn't leave Tippecanoe Co until I got my second degree from Purdue. I only started posting when Purdue fans stated things about Evan Fitzner, something they know nothing about. I live 10 minutes from St. Mary's campus and have seen the Gaels play multiple times over the last 5 years.

I haven't posted any positive IU crap outside defending the notion that someone like Cody Zeller wasn't developed at IU. If that makes me an IU troll, what is my prize? Believe it or not, you can still be a Purdue fan and still call sh*t for what it is.
 
I don't owe you anything but I was born and raised a Boiler fan in Tippecanoe Co and didn't leave Tippecanoe Co until I got my second degree from Purdue. I only started posting when Purdue fans stated things about Evan Fitzner, something they know nothing about. I live 10 minutes from St. Mary's campus and have seen the Gaels play multiple times over the last 5 years.

I haven't posted any positive IU crap outside defending the notion that someone like Cody Zeller wasn't developed at IU. If that makes me an IU troll, what is my prize? Believe it or not, you can still be a Purdue fan and still call sh*t for what it is.
Outed.
 
Oh, I knew...
I don't owe you anything but I was born and raised a Boiler fan in Tippecanoe Co and didn't leave Tippecanoe Co until I got my second degree from Purdue. I only started posting when Purdue fans stated things about Evan Fitzner, something they know nothing about. I live 10 minutes from St. Mary's campus and have seen the Gaels play multiple times over the last 5 years.

I haven't posted any positive IU crap outside defending the notion that someone like Cody Zeller wasn't developed at IU. If that makes me an IU troll, what is my prize? Believe it or not, you can still be a Purdue fan and still call sh*t for what it is.
Wow you forgot to throw in the "I'm just being a realist". Reality is Crean couldn't develop a Polaroid.
 
Wow you forgot to throw in the "I'm just being a realist". Reality is Crean couldn't develop a Polaroid.

Yet Tom Crean has more players in the NBA than Matt Painter and it's not close. The ignorance displayed here is astounding. I don't like Tom Crean, think he's a lousy coach, and would take Matt Painter over him everyday and twice on Sunday but if you can't put aside your homerism and at least acknowledge he could put players in the NBA that's your fault.
 
Victor Oladipo was ranked 144 by Rivals and ended up being the 2nd draft pick - if that isn’t player development I am curious what defines player development.
You guys don't pay attention. Oladipo developed playing and training with NBA players during the summers in Indianapolis. There were articles on the Indy Star website discussing it. I guess you could give Crean credit for knowing he didn't know what to do with him and sent him elsewhere for training.
 
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You guys don't pay attention. Oladipo developed playing and training with NBA players during the summers in Indianapolis. There were articles on the Indy Star website discussing it. I guess you could give Crean credit for knowing he didn't know what to do with him and sent his elsewhere for training.

So that's it then? Playing in a couple pro-am pick up games in the summer is the only reason? I guess Carsen Edwards going to Joey Burton over the last couple summers is the only reason Carsen Edwards became an AA and NPOY candidate? Sames rules apply right? The jokes right themselves here. It's hard to be objective when you're pushing a narrative right?
 
Sorry but no. a lot of his posts that have been on here seem to be the 'pointing out homer' stuff and if he doesn't like it, he can stop coming here. It is not up to an iu fan to attempt to dictate what is and isn't posted on here. Can you imagine the reception we would get if we tried something like that on peegs? Yep insta ban.

So no, I am going to continue to call him out as I see fit. If you or others don't like it, I truly and honestly couldn't care less. Him and his other iu buddies like notaboileriron deserve to be held accountable for the things they post here.


Accountability and credibility goes both ways. The more you berate others and personally attack them, The less respect others have for you and your posts. You even admit you could care less about what other Boiler fans think of your actions and posts. The best forum moderation/policing is using a mirror and reading your own posts. Did you really mean to say that before you posted it?
 
Accountability and credibility goes both ways. The more you berate others and personally attack them, The less respect others have for you and your posts. You even admit you could care less about what other Boiler fans think of your actions and posts. The best forum moderation/policing is using a mirror and reading your own posts. Did you really mean to say that before you posted it?

Of course he doesn't. He's a Purdue fan on a Purdue board and any person with a contrarian point of view is simply an IU troll. Of course nobody forgets, he has to remind somebody every other post.
 
Yet Tom Crean has more players in the NBA than Matt Painter and it's not close. The ignorance displayed here is astounding. I don't like Tom Crean, think he's a lousy coach, and would take Matt Painter over him everyday and twice on Sunday but if you can't put aside your homerism and at least acknowledge he could put players in the NBA that's your fault.
recruited a lot of NBA talent is true
 
any person with a contrarian point of view is simply an IU troll.
False. It's just folks like you that think you can fool people in to believing your a Boiler with your over-the-top iu love. There are plenty of people on here that have an different view that can express it without outing themselves as iu people behind a Boiler id.

It's a tactic that happens frequently on here and like you, sooner or later they are exposed because for the cream and crimson fodder they really are.
 
recruited a lot of NBA talent is true

What does that mean? How can you sit there and say players can't develop in college? If there was no one and done rule are you telling me someone like Cody Zeller is the 4th pick in the draft coming out of high school? In what world? Cody Zeller came back for his sophomore year, developed a mid-range and face up game and became the 4th overall pick. That is development in any sense of the word developed imaginable. How does someone like IU or Tom Crean not get credit for that?

Never mind IU, look at his time at Marquette. Dwayne Wade was a 3* with offers from Marquette, DePaul, and the directional Illinois schools. He's a first ballot HoFer and arguably the greatest SG of his generation. He's speaks volumes of Tom Crean. Travis Diener? Steve Novak? Wes Matthews? All those guys have enjoyed better NBA career than anybody Matt Painter has recruited with the exception of E'Twuan Moore. Being able to coach X's and O's and develop players aren't the same thing.
 
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Back to big men. I remember a couple athletic big men with decent rankings and potential who didn’t work out at IU, Peter Jurkin and Hanner Mosquera- Perrea.
 
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False. It's just folks like you that think you can fool people in to believing your a Boiler with your over-the-top iu love. There are plenty of people on here that have an different view that can express it without outing themselves as iu people behind a Boiler id.

It's a tactic that happens frequently on here and like you, sooner or later they are exposed because for the cream and crimson fodder they really are.

What IU love have I shown? Is suggesting it's ridiculous to claim IU doesn't get credit for developing Cody Zeller really IU love? I don't care if you're a Purdue fan, IU fan, Duke fan, if you can't see they way Cody Zeller developed at IU into the 4th overall pick, you don't understand basketball. Period. You deserve to get called out and anything else is simply pushing a narrative or being a blatant homer.

Is coming on here and giving my personal experiences of watching Evan Fitzner play at St. Mary's IU love? Someone made a ridiculous statement that said he wasn't a good three point shooter and wouldn't be a threat to shoot at IU and I simply stated that wasn't true. Whoever made that statement obviously had never seen Evan Fitzner play, or else that statement would have never been made. That's all he is is a pick and pop 3 point shooter. You may not agree with that because it's not a pro-Purdue agenda (I know this is a PURDUE board) but that doesn't mean I'm an IU troll. It means you're incapable of having any dialogue with somebody who doesn't support your opinion.
 
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In my business we call that an outlier or noise.

It'd be an outlier if he were the only one. Travis Diener? Dwayne Wade? Steve Novak? Wes Matthews? OG Anunoby? Non of those guys were 5* or McDonald's All-American's coming out of high school who all developed under Tom Crean and had lengthy NBA careers sans OG who started 62 games as a rookie last year.

You don't have to be an IU fan or troll to recognize this.
 
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It'd be an outlier if he were the only one. Travis Diener? Dwayne Wade? Steve Novak? Wes Matthews? OG Anunoby? Non of those guys were 5* or McDonald's All-American's coming out of high school who all developed under Tom Crean and had lengthy NBA careers sans OG who started 62 games as a rookie last year.

You don't have to be an IU fan or troll to recognize this.
You hadn't posted on this board ever until a week ago and not a one of your posts is positive toward Purdue. You've defended iu players, Tom Crean, and etc. And you can't understand why some would think you're nothing but an iu troll? You're either not very bright or you think Purdue fans aren't very bright.
 
You hadn't posted on this board ever until a week ago and not a one of your posts is positive toward Purdue. You've defended iu players, Tom Crean, and etc. And you can't understand why some would think you're nothing but an iu troll? You're either not very bright or you think Purdue fans aren't very bright.

I only posted after the Evan Fitzner comments. I stated that from the start. If that doesn't get posted, you probably never hear from me. I defended Evan Fitzner, a former St. Mary's player, a team I've followed heavily since I moved into the area. They're fun to watch and play great basketball. Not once did I defend Tom Crean. I've called him a lousy coach who couldn't win the big games. Don't confuse that with his ability to develop talent. It's patently false to say Tom Crean isn't good a taking unheralded talent and putting it into the NBA. That doesn't make me a Tom Crean apologist by any means.

I've posted plenty of insight and positives on Purdue basketball, you're too blind to read it because you have this built in notion that I'm an IU troll because I state things you don't agree with. That's on you, not me. It's not that I don't think Purdue fans aren't bright, I just think some on here are ignorant and can't see things objectively because of a Purdue bias. Don't get it twisted, I'm a diehard Purdue fan but also a diehard college basketball fan. College basketball is a lot more fun to discuss with other people when you can view things objectively. You should try it.
 
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False. It's just folks like you that think you can fool people in to believing your a Boiler with your over-the-top iu love. There are plenty of people on here that have an different view that can express it without outing themselves as iu people behind a Boiler id.

It's a tactic that happens frequently on here and like you, sooner or later they are exposed because for the cream and crimson fodder they really are.
I think you are incorrect about Bay Area. However since you don’t care about what others think, then I suspect you will ignore anyone else’s opinions anyway.

By the way, disregarding what others think seems hostile to the rest of us, and you lose a lot of respect from us. It’s not a good strategy for this board.
 
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When Haas signs his pro deal then the discussion is over...…

I guess I am just a positive thinking kind of Purdue guy that knows he will....he works hard and has the skill why would he not.

Give it a few weeks and then the likes of the homer Wol and all these IU trolls can STFU.....

Oh and F#$% IU, always!
calling me a homer? Of what college? My alma mater UTSA? USF? Purdue?

While you guys were arguing, I did some fact finding. I visited several Utah Jazz boards, Cavs boards and Rockets boards to see how our Boilers did in the Summer leagues. The truth was their boards were more occupied discussing other players.

Haas played in every game for Utah leading their team in fouls at 4.5 per 15 mins played. I guess the NBA refs are as bad as college refs not understanding Haas'game. He also colllected an average of 4.8 rebounds in those limited minutes which was good. Stats wise and discussion wise, he's being listed as their third best center on their summer league team. His chances of making their team appear slim. They like a guy from UNC and another couple of guys.

Mathias did ok for Cleveland , however his 3 point % was bad. For him to make the team, he needs to do a lot better.

Vince was the best of the bunch, even starting several games. I'm not sure what the addition of Melo will do to him making the team. I have to believe he will at least make the team and Houston will realize their mistake signing Melo. I noticed his age and hometown. I then realized my son played against him in travel league basketball in grade school when we lived in Springboro, OH. Those were such fun times with parents constantly yelling at and berating their own coach for not playing their sons. And telling the coach and the refs where to go. I can't remember how many times I heard a fan yell that's traveling as he would use his arms in a circular manner as if others were watching him. Boy did we have some stupid and emotional fans. I felt sorry for the kids who didn't come close to meeting their parent's expectations.

I didn't check how Stephens was doing. JJJ proved why he was drafted in the top 5, and Swanigan also proved he belongs and put his talents and work efforts on display. I didn't check on any IU player or their performance.

I found it odd there are no Purdue threads talking about our three Seniors and their Summer league performance while there is a very heated one talking about Sasha and Wheeler and their limited sample of games. As I indicated in the Sasha thread, critical decisions and evaluations in the NBA are made using very small samples, so every minute on the floor and every game counts.

Why am I posting this? You called me and others out. You spoke without providing facts to back up your point. It's one thing to be proud of your players. It's another thing to be boastful and misleading while calling out others. Will our three Boilers become Pros? Maybe they will. Is Yancy a Packer? Do you give Hazell any credit for developing his talent? I don't know if Crean developed any players at IU. I've heard people here talk about Yogi for several years. I heard he signed an NBA contract. Did Crean develop Olidapo? I don't know. Will he be more successful in the pros than Swanigan. And as a result, will other big men follow his path to IU? Maybe.

That's why I say what goes around, comes around. The more you bad mouth other teams and their players, and their fans, the more they are likely to point out the flaws and deficiencies of your own. In other words, don't throw stones if your own basketball arena is made of glass without air conditioning. I realize several other Boiler fans probably just put me on ignore for defending the rights of IU fans to voice their opinions on a Purdue board. Some of you are probably boiling over.

I find it interesting that coaches and players have a lot of respect and friendship for opposing teams and players, but fans don't . My son and a high school rival became very close friends at college. In track, every fan roots for and encourages every player to perform their best regardless of their team. I guess that's why we don't have track sports forums. We're always in agreement with each other and never arguing.
 
By the way, disregarding what others think seems hostile to the rest of us, and you lose a lot of respect from us. It’s not a good strategy for this board.
Why on earth would I remotely care if some anonymous people on a forum have 'respect' for me? You do realize that this site doesn't have any impact on my or any of our lives right? Especially to the point with worrying whether people 'respect' me or not.

If I want to have a good discussion with people then this site is not the place for it and I found that out quickly after I first started coming here. The only reason to visit this site is to stir the trolls up and to entertain yourself. There are many people on here that crap all over threads and if the mods don't care, then why should I?
 
Why on earth would I remotely care if some anonymous people on a forum have 'respect' for me? You do realize that this site doesn't have any impact on my or any of our lives right? Especially to the point with worrying whether people 'respect' me or not.

If I want to have a good discussion with people then this site is not the place for it and I found that out quickly after I first started coming here. The only reason to visit this site is to stir the trolls up and to entertain yourself. There are many people on here that crap all over threads and if the mods don't care, then why should I?

Reminding a group of anonymous people that you don't care if people respect you are not when you actively seek out respect by calling any and all others with differing opinions trolls is the exact definition of triggered.

Steel, you've been outed.
 
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So that's it then? Playing in a couple pro-am pick up games in the summer is the only reason? I guess Carsen Edwards going to Joey Burton over the last couple summers is the only reason Carsen Edwards became an AA and NPOY candidate? Sames rules apply right? The jokes right themselves here. It's hard to be objective when you're pushing a narrative right?

Didn't Eastern also seek outside help to develop and improve his game? To say one coach doesn't know how to develop talent when another one does , you need to first examine your own player development first before looking like a fool making wild ass claims.
 
Reminding a group of anonymous people that you don't care if people respect you are not when you actively seek out respect by calling any and all others with differing opinions trolls is the exact definition of triggered..
Nice try but you fell a little short there you triggered iu poser.

That you tom crean? You can go ahead and come clean now, we've figured you out.
 
Didn't Eastern also seek outside help to develop and improve his game? To say one coach doesn't know how to develop talent when another one does , you need to first examine your own player development first before looking like a fool making wild ass claims.

Can't attest to Eastern. But it's more than common knowledge that many D1 athletes seek out personal trainers and instructors during their off-season while away from campus. It's not just just limited to IU. Anyone who thinks Victor Oladipo became the second overall pick in the NBA draft because he played in the St. Vincent's Pro-AM league in Indy for a summer (something Purdue players do as well) is mindless and really doesn't know what they're talking about.
 
What does that mean? How can you sit there and say players can't develop in college? If there was no one and done rule are you telling me someone like Cody Zeller is the 4th pick in the draft coming out of high school? In what world? Cody Zeller came back for his sophomore year, developed a mid-range and face up game and became the 4th overall pick. That is development in any sense of the word developed imaginable. How does someone like IU or Tom Crean not get credit for that?

Never mind IU, look at his time at Marquette. Dwayne Wade was a 3* with offers from Marquette, DePaul, and the directional Illinois schools. He's a first ballot HoFer and arguably the greatest SG of his generation. He's speaks volumes of Tom Crean. Travis Diener? Steve Novak? Wes Matthews? All those guys have enjoyed better NBA career than anybody Matt Painter has recruited with the exception of E'Twuan Moore. Being able to coach X's and O's and develop players aren't the same thing.

Using an analogy that everyone has a background, I hope to provide better clarity, and so I offer “education” for review. In some tests of measure “Criterion” measures are used. This is a measure of a specific hurdle that is measured, not how well a student gained knowledge. This may have very little to do with student gain (development) as a result of a really good teacher providing that gain. Consequently, the collective accomplishment of a group of students in judgment of that teacher for student gain must account for IQ, previous learning and with hope that work ethic is equal between the groups of comparison for starters. Back in the 80s (1982 I think) Bill Sanders and Bob McLean recognizing the shortcomings of trying to evaluate teacher’s “development” on a single hurdle to clear (getting into the NBA for coaches) TVAAS was developed. http://team-tn.org/data/tvaas/

Here is a snippet… “The Tennessee Value-Added Assessment System (TVAAS) measures the impact schools and teachers have on their students’ academic progress. TVAAS is a powerful tool because it measures how much students grow in a year, and shines more light on student progress than solely considering their score on an end of year test.

For example, a student who is behind academically may show significant academic growth but not pass the end of year test. Another student may also not pass the end of year test, but not show any growth. The school system added a lot of value to the first student’s academic development, and little value to the second student’s academic development. However, only looking at the end of year test scores would not tell this full story. TVAAS allows educators to consider their students’ achievement (their score on the end of year assessment), as well as their growth (the progress students make year to year)

If that is confusing consider why some schools do NOT allow parents to request certain teachers (not that I’m for that) or how some teachers in a school district that have an average cognitive index of 100 compares to a school with an average cognitive index of 108 for example if measuring how many people get AP credit. Where “SOME” get confused is conflicting that single hurdle for measure to be the catch all for development similar to why the average IQ of 100 doesn’t have as many engineers as the average IQ 108.

There are some students that will never “GAIN” what others do, because they can’t learn a full year of knowledge, and in that same class some will learn more than a year. Each team has players that develop more than some players that make it to the NBA, just like we see in education and learning on student gain. Quite simply…that single measure as a definition of development is flawed many…many times. Anyway, all of us have some experience with education and hopefully this explains a better understanding. If not, there is little that can be done to help with that dilemma
 
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