This team needs a Kramer, Cardinal, Lowe, or etc

[hunkgolden]

Bunch of very nice guys who have been raised to respect others. I see a team that tends to play soft without a that guy to set the tone of "We're not taking any crap from your team today". Need someone not afraid to get in someone's grill. Would like to see Painter channel his inner Keady and show a little fire - perhaps this would ignite someone on the team.

 

[*4purdue*]

Bunch of very nice guys who have been raised to respect others. I see a team that tends to play soft without a that guy to set the tone of "We're not taking any crap from your team today". Need someone not afraid to get in someone's grill. Would like to see Painter channel his inner Keady and show a little fire - perhaps this would ignite someone on the team.

I think it's unfair to not put Davis in that category. Granted, he's a little more mild than Kramer & Cardinal, but he's of the same mold. As for CMP, I'm with you. I think CMP needs to show more fire as well. He's one of the most passive coaches I've seen.

 

[BBG]

I think it's unfair to not put Davis in that category. Granted, he's a little more mild than Kramer & Cardinal, but he's of the same mold. As for CMP, I'm with you. I think CMP needs to show more fire as well. He's one of the most passive coaches I've seen.

How can we assume he isnt? All we know what is going is based off of snippets from tv for the most part. There were posts previously where he's been over heard dropping f bombs and what not during timeouts.

Not saying you are wrong, it's just dangerous to assume something that can't be 100% verfied. Also, maybe he has tried it in practice but it made things worse? I have no clue just speculating, but people respond differently to different methods.

 

[Dryfly88]

I think it's unfair to not put Davis in that category. Granted, he's a little more mild than Kramer & Cardinal, but he's of the same mold. As for CMP, I'm with you. I think CMP needs to show more fire as well. He's one of the most passive coaches I've seen.

I would love to see more fire from CMP too, but that just isn't his personality. For him to be more "Keady Like" wouldn't be natural for him. I think he has to stay true to his own self.

With that said..... Man, would I love to see him yank off the coat and send it into the 5th row!!!

 

[CRBoiler]

I've seen some of that edge from PJ - remember the tie up with that huge dude several games back - drawing a blank on the name. And other times too.

I see the look on Kendall's face sometimes - just wish he was hitting more shots to back it up.

I also see it on Mathias's face at times, though he doesn't seem to be a 1-on-1 in-your-face kinda guy - if he added 20 lbs of muscle (or maybe add 10 lbs of muscle and lose 5 lbs of the soft stuff) without losing quickness, that'd help him back it up. He's not an imposing physical specimen at this point.

I do think Davis has some of it, but it's maybe more reactive than proactive if you know what I mean, which kinda makes sense as a defense-focused player.

And then there's Weatherford

I think we have guys who have the potential to convey that kind of domineering toughness, and I agree with OP that we could use it. Many other teams do have more of it than we do.

 

[Grover]

I think it's unfair to not put Davis in that category.

Kenny Lowe would never fist bump an opponent during play...

 

[IamBob]

I would love to see more fire from CMP too, but that just isn't his personality. For him to be more "Keady Like" wouldn't be natural for him. I think he has to stay true to his own self.

With that said..... Man, would I love to see him yank off the coat and send it into the 5th row!!!

One of Coach Keady's best skills was just having the exact perfect timing to get a tech. I believe some of his T's came just because he wanted one to fire up the crowd which fires up the team.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Bunch of very nice guys who have been raised to respect others. I see a team that tends to play soft without a that guy to set the tone of "We're not taking any crap from your team today". Need someone not afraid to get in someone's grill. Would like to see Painter channel his inner Keady and show a little fire - perhaps this would ignite someone on the team.

This isn't just something lacking at Purdue; it's lacking across all of college bball.

These kids all know eachother and are all "buddies," whether that be from AAU ties or whatnot, the culture has changed in college bball.

 

[bonefish1]

We need guys who can create their own shot and knock down open 3's, not another guy who prides himself on defense.

 

[rgarlitz]

A couple thoughts on this topic:

1) Our two best players right now (Vince and AJ) just don't seem that demonstrative on the court. That's ok, they have to be who they are.

2) Painter: Maybe he feels like he needs to keep his composure to be at his best during games. Some guys can really lay on the Gene Keady/Barry Alvarez stuff and make it effective. But some guys just loose control. Painter probably knows himself pretty well by now.

3) Isaac Haas WILL BE that guy for us when he becomes a full-time starter. I see it in PJ as well. Those two guys might only help us in certain situations this year, but we have some of those personalities on the roster.

 

[Boiler Buck]

This team needs potential scorers @ all 5 positions.....guys who are a threat to & can get 10-20 on any given night. Most FF type teams often have this. Offensively, they cannot or will not keep up w/ the elite B1G teams because they have the 1, 2 & 3 (when Davis is there) positions who simply are not consistent scoring threats.

 

[FleeTheScene]

Buddy hield is pretty friendly with other players. Always smiling and looks like he's having fun playing basketball. He seems to do alright for himself.

I get the sentiment here, and toughness may very well be a weakness, but I think the bigger weakness seems to be offensive inefficiency more than needing to be a little meaner.

 

[Keithlyt]

I have been watching Purdue basketball for over 45 years...basketball fan for almost fifty...and Painter has the lease amount of passion of any coach I have ever seen...I don't care what is or isn't his personality...when the other coaches are working the refs and suddenly we have five fouls in a row called on us...and he stands there with his hands outstretched and his mouth hanging open...that isn't impressing or getting any official attention...he has NO passion...and that's what we need...as it has been said above...we don't have a Kramer..we don't have a Cardinal..but we have several players who have shown that they have that fire...all they need is a spark..that is one of the many places that made Keady national coach of the year...when the passion was lacking..when they needed a spark...he brought it..and brought the team up..got the crowd frenzied..and suddenly they were all playing like Iowa in the second half...until we get one guy who is the consistant firebrand...or until Painter realizes that passion is a part of his job ...we are going to struggle against any team that has it...

 

[Jbigler1986]

We do have Weatherford for next year. He is supposed to be that type of player. Kinda wish we had him this year at times. Our defense has been better the last few games. Hopefully it continues.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Guys like Kramer, Todd Foster, Cardinal and Lowe just flat out wanted it more than anyone on the court and were willing to do whatever it took to will their teams to victory. They were smarter and saw things developing before anyone else. That work ethic was contagious and became woven in the fabric of those teams. We could use one or two of those absolutely.

 

[lbodel]

I have been watching Purdue basketball for over 45 years...basketball fan for almost fifty...and Painter has the lease amount of passion of any coach I have ever seen...I don't care what is or isn't his personality...when the other coaches are working the refs and suddenly we have five fouls in a row called on us...and he stands there with his hands outstretched and his mouth hanging open...that isn't impressing or getting any official attention...he has NO passion...and that's what we need...as it has been said above...we don't have a Kramer..we don't have a Cardinal..but we have several players who have shown that they have that fire...all they need is a spark..that is one of the many places that made Keady national coach of the year...when the passion was lacking..when they needed a spark...he brought it..and brought the team up..got the crowd frenzied..and suddenly they were all playing like Iowa in the second half...until we get one guy who is the consistant firebrand...or until Painter realizes that passion is a part of his job ...we are going to struggle against any team that has it...

Painter has won Big Ten Coach of the Year 3 times in 10 years. And he didn't win it last year (when you could really make a strong argument he should have).

Just as a point of reference...
Ryan - 4 times
Izzo - 3 times
Matta - 3 times

You don't win those by having "the least amount of passion of any coach you have ever seen"...

 

[scipiospinks]

We need guys who can create their own shot and knock down open 3's, not another guy who prides himself on defense.

Thank you.

We've won the rebounding battle every game. For a while we had the best fg% defense in the country. I'm sure it's fallen some but I'm guessing it's still good. CMP teams play plenty tough. We don't have a guy who will handle pressure, or create their own shot. I loved Kramer but he benefitted from playing next to some really good players. The last thing this team needs is a guy on the floor double teaming Hammons because they'll let Kramer shoot wide open 15 footers.

We need less prison ball and more skill.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I have been watching Purdue basketball for over 45 years...basketball fan for almost fifty...and Painter has the lease amount of passion of any coach I have ever seen...I don't care what is or isn't his personality...when the other coaches are working the refs and suddenly we have five fouls in a row called on us...and he stands there with his hands outstretched and his mouth hanging open...that isn't impressing or getting any official attention...he has NO passion...and that's what we need...as it has been said above...we don't have a Kramer..we don't have a Cardinal..but we have several players who have shown that they have that fire...all they need is a spark..that is one of the many places that made Keady national coach of the year...when the passion was lacking..when they needed a spark...he brought it..and brought the team up..got the crowd frenzied..and suddenly they were all playing like Iowa in the second half...until we get one guy who is the consistant firebrand...or until Painter realizes that passion is a part of his job ...we are going to struggle against any team that has it...

Bill Walsh and Tom Landry won 5 Super Bowl's between them, with the "passion" of a librarian.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Bill Walsh and Tom Landry won 5 Super Bowl's between them, with the "passion" of a librarian.

This. I really couldn't care less about Painters fire or sideline antics. Except!! I don't want him allowing our team to be brutalized or abused by lop-sided calls. Other than that? I don't care. I've seen far too many calm coaches get the job done.

 

[lbodel]

Thank you.

We've won the rebounding battle every game. For a while we had the best fg% defense in the country. I'm sure it's fallen some but I'm guessing it's still good. CMP teams play plenty tough. We don't have a guy who will handle pressure, or create their own shot. I loved Kramer but he benefitted from playing next to some really good players. The last thing this team needs is a guy on the floor double teaming Hammons because they'll let Kramer shoot wide open 15 footers.

We need less prison ball and more skill.

The thing is, Weatherford will most likely never start. You aren't going to have a team full of scholarship players who all start - obviously. Let alone even see playing time.

With transfer rates so high, many teams don't really "solidly" go beyond 8 players that are "high caliber" players because people don't want to ride the bench. There's 13 scholarships. Having a very deep team is not a common thing anymore and Purdue's team this year is not "typical" - especially considering you have a guy like Basil asking to redshirt - most guys would just leave.

Not everyone's going to be a starter on a team. Weatherford will be a tough guy in practice and he'll probably see some back-up duty to a guy like Carson Edwards. He'll be a "spark plug" more so than starter.

And going back to your post, Purdue's FG % defense is good on the season - in the Big Ten, it's flat out average. We're not stopping guys off the dribble well.

I agree that Kramer benefited a lot by the guys around him. But that's no different than what we'd be looking at with our team - we have young shooters and then guys like Swanigan, Edwards, Haas, etc. It's not like we have a bunch of offensive duds.

It's also not uncommon for teams to play guys that aren't big offensive threats - not just a Purdue thing.

 

[scipiospinks]

The thing is, Weatherford will most likely never start. You aren't going to have a team full of scholarship players who all start - obviously. Let alone even see playing time.

With transfer rates so high, many teams don't really "solidly" go beyond 8 players that are "high caliber" players because people don't want to ride the bench. There's 13 scholarships. Having a very deep team is not a common thing anymore and Purdue's team this year is not "typical" - especially considering you have a guy like Basil asking to redshirt - most guys would just leave.

Not everyone's going to be a starter on a team. Weatherford will be a tough guy in practice and he'll probably see some back-up duty to a guy like Carson Edwards. He'll be a "spark plug" more so than starter.

And going back to your post, Purdue's FG % defense is good on the season - in the Big Ten, it's flat out average. We're not stopping guys off the dribble well.

I agree that Kramer benefited a lot by the guys around him. But that's no different than what we'd be looking at with our team - we have young shooters and then guys like Swanigan, Edwards, Haas, etc. It's not like we have a bunch of offensive duds.

It's also not uncommon for teams to play guys that aren't big offensive threats - not just a Purdue thing.

I'll disagree that this team would be similar to the Kramer teams. There is no Moore or Hummel on these teams. Our young shooters aren't hitting enough shots, and despite that, it's pretty much all they do. Mathias can run the offense a bit, but he's certainly not dynamic. We don't have duds, but we also don't have a guy who can create his own shot. Edwards is probably the best. I'm not saying Kramer would be bad or worthless, but if given the choice I would not say that is what this team needs.

 

[Keithlyt]

first of all...you can be a pretty crappy coach and go to a final four with enough talent playing well at the right time ( i.e. Mike Davis ...anyone want to say he was a great coach? Keady said over and over when he won those awards ..he got more credit than he deserved...in painters case...absolutely ) if you haven't see our team look flat or lost on the floor (Everytime we get pressed) ..if you haven't seen our team act like everyone around them is supposed to wilt and die just because we showed up...then you haven't been watching...to say that a team can win without a coach with passion...well..maybe so....but it is much more rare....and we NEED that...so you keep your coach without passion..if we win..its not due to painter...its in spite of him...

brutalizing our team...I have seen Haas just beat up..thrown to the ground ...and painter says nothing...doesn't need passion...well...when he wont even defend his own team...protect them from harm...can't see how ANY Purdue fan can defend that...

and comparing pro football to college basketball coaching...not anywhere the same...pay players for performance and the coaches shouldn't have to have that much passion...and having the best players in the sport helps...

 

[Bucket Boy]

first of all...you can be a pretty crappy coach and go to a final four with enough talent playing well at the right time ( i.e. Mike Davis ...anyone want to say he was a great coach? Keady said over and over when he won those awards ..he got more credit than he deserved...in painters case...absolutely ) if you haven't see our team look flat or lost on the floor (Everytime we get pressed) ..if you haven't seen our team act like everyone around them is supposed to wilt and die just because we showed up...then you haven't been watching...to say that a team can win without a coach with passion...well..maybe so....but it is much more rare....and we NEED that...so you keep your coach without passion..if we win..its not due to painter...its in spite of him...

brutalizing our team...I have seen Haas just beat up..thrown to the ground ...and painter says nothing...doesn't need passion...well...when he wont even defend his own team...protect them from harm...can't see how ANY Purdue fan can defend that...

and comparing pro football to college basketball coaching...not anywhere the same...pay players for performance and the coaches shouldn't have to have that much passion...and having the best players in the sport helps...

You are kidding right? Painter is on Ref from opening tip. I sit right behind team every home game. You my friend are clueless!!!!!!! I think it may be dumbest post I have read in my years of following this board. Congrats

 

[77 grad]

Bryson Scott had that "fire" and "passion." Where is he?

The key is to have it yet, control it and make it work for you. I'm glad we have more than a few guys who do that.

 

[rjmpu82]

From another perspective, I got a text from a long time friend that has lived in NB his entire life except for the 3 years of his surgical residency. His son played football for NB about 5 years ago. He wanted to know how we have lost a single game all season. Said with AJ and IH, we are almost impossible to stop and then we start dropping 3's. Granted, he hasn't seen us play every game, but he was quite impressed with the entire team yesterday, top to bottom.

 

[pig1960]

I sit relatively close to the bench. Painter has passion and is constantly working the refs. It doesn't play out because he doesn't have the over the top antics of an Izzo or even Keady. I think if you look at the statistics the whole idea coaches influence the whistle is overblown. It's just a fans natural inclination to explain away a loss. More likely that there is a slight home whistle.

 

[Lionheart1]

I agree with the poster this team needs a leader with an "edge" to his personality. Someone who doesn't let them come out of the lockeroom flat like they have on occasion this year and/or help them regain it during the game. I would say this single thing is more important to their overall success than their other "issues": point guard, turnovers, and inconsistent outside shooting.

 

[lbodel]

I'll disagree that this team would be similar to the Kramer teams. There is no Moore or Hummel on these teams. Our young shooters aren't hitting enough shots, and despite that, it's pretty much all they do. Mathias can run the offense a bit, but he's certainly not dynamic. We don't have duds, but we also don't have a guy who can create his own shot. Edwards is probably the best. I'm not saying Kramer would be bad or worthless, but if given the choice I would not say that is what this team needs.

I mean, they are very different teams. Those teams with Moore/Hummel did NOT have the interior presence that we have. JaJuan was a good guy, but we had size (and sometimes rebounding) issues with those teams. We didn't have a 7' true center, let alone a back up 7'2" center, we didn't have a power forward, etc.

There are strengths and weaknesses to both. E'twaun and Robbie were absolutely great assets, but when one of those guys didn't have a good game, we typically struggled.

 

[bonefish1]

From another perspective, I got a text from a long time friend that has lived in NB his entire life except for the 3 years of his surgical residency. His son played football for NB about 5 years ago. He wanted to know how we have lost a single game all season. Said with AJ and IH, we are almost impossible to stop and then we start dropping 3's. Granted, he hasn't seen us play every game, but he was quite impressed with the entire team yesterday, top to bottom.

Well, most people would believe that if you have 2 7-footers who were going to play in the NBA, then you've got a significant advantage over most teams. But, it's still a guard (or 3-4 who can handle the ball and create) dominated game.
Teams know that the recipe to beat Purdue is to disrupt the flow of the guards setting up the offense and make it difficult to get the ball inside. One AJ or IH get the ball down low, you're in trouble but Iowa showed how to prevent that.
Purdue isn't lacking fire, it's lacking skill at the PG position. Someone who can get off a tough shot, create something out of nothing, get a decent look late in the shot clock, etc.

 

[bonefish1]

Having 'fire' and showing it on TV is overrated. If you ever watched Stevens when he was at Butler, he was calm as a nun on the sideline. But, he was a great coach.
With someone like Davis, he should be enough to get guys jacked up. Painter will work the refs as needed but he's not going to make an ass of himself on the sideline if that's not his nature.

 

[Mandeville LA]

This. I really couldn't care less about Painters fire or sideline antics. Except!! I don't want him allowing our team to be brutalized or abused by lop-sided calls. Other than that? I don't care. I've seen far too many calm coaches get the job done.

I guess everyone sees something different. In the last game I caught a glimpse of Painter working one of the refs pretty hard over what he thought was a couple of bad no calls on Haas. I am pretty sure he does that a lot. If he feels he is getting his point across and the refs are reacting the way he wants them too, what's the point. If you can read his lips on TV his players can hear him loud and clear.

 

[scipiospinks]

I mean, they are very different teams. Those teams with Moore/Hummel did NOT have the interior presence that we have. JaJuan was a good guy, but we had size (and sometimes rebounding) issues with those teams. We didn't have a 7' true center, let alone a back up 7'2" center, we didn't have a power forward, etc.

There are strengths and weaknesses to both. E'twaun and Robbie were absolutely great assets, but when one of those guys didn't have a good game, we typically struggled.

That didn't happen too often. Not when Hummel and Moore and JJ all played together at least. And that works for every team. When Hammons and Haas struggle we typically struggle. Moore was a playmaker, which this team doesn't have. This is a guard driven game. Having a dominant post is certainly nice, but more important to have a guard who can open the floor, create shots for himself or others and protect the ball. Again, Kramer had a great role because he could just play defense and not turn it over. He didn't have to shoot because grant, Hummel and Moore could hit shots, he didn't have to create much on the drive because Moore and Jackson could do that. He was a great player to have because he could lock down anyone and didn't hurt the offense that much. Yes, he would help this team because he was a nice player, but he wouldn't help that much. Without a playmaker at guard we are what we are. A solid team with some upside to beat good teams yet the ability to have a clunker.

 

[spradecki]

Bunch of very nice guys who have been raised to respect others. I see a team that tends to play soft without a that guy to set the tone of "We're not taking any crap from your team today". Need someone not afraid to get in someone's grill. Would like to see Painter channel his inner Keady and show a little fire - perhaps this would ignite someone on the team.

They are nice guys who are Not soft but play with unusual sportsmanship. That is a good thing.
Rather have that any day vs a dellavedova type cheap shot artist.

I like painter

 

[DenverBoiler]

Wooden, Coach K, Lute Olsen. That is three of the best coaches ever and they aren't / weren't over the top chair throwers. Painter works the refs constantly- his way. He would look like a fool if he tried to act crazy, it would come across completely disingenuine.

I don't post much but I agree with the "we don't have a score off the dribble player and we need one badly" crowd. All too often when plays break down, we throw up garbage at the rim, with Biggie in the high post still and out of rebounding position. I still think Vince this that player, he just needs a "go to" move off the dribble he feels confident in. With his length he should be able to get his shot any time he wants it. I hope that is what he is working on right now.