Over at H&R Purdue site. Multiple posters are discussing in a thread firing Painter and replacing him with Robbie Hummel in 2 years as coach. REALLY?
This Fire Painter mantra has just gotten silly...
- Thread starter TJBoiler
- Start date
Well, as Jesus said, where 2 or 3 are gathered, someone says something stupid. No offense guys; don't hate me.
More seriously, I can understand the frustration. For better or worse, college basketball programs are judged by their performance in a highly unpredictable knockout tournament. And from that vantage point, Purdue has not done very well (although I will say there are still scores of P5 schools who would kill to have our tournament success). But if you accept tournament performance as the only barometer of success, you're bound to be frustrated.
From my perspective, tournament success definitely matters, but there are a lot more things to consider--regular season performance, player development, player off-court behavior and academic performance. From those perspectives, Purdue fares better. And I'll be perfectly honest, I am satisfied with that. I would like a Final Four and a National Championship--who wouldn't? But I also recognize that we do have a pretty good thing going with the current program.
I know all the responses of people who take the opposite view--I'm handing out participation trophies, or I'm accepting mediocrity, or whatever. But in fact, it's hard to run a successful and (relatively) clean D1 basketball program. I think Painter does that successfully, and that's not something to throw away.
More seriously, I can understand the frustration. For better or worse, college basketball programs are judged by their performance in a highly unpredictable knockout tournament. And from that vantage point, Purdue has not done very well (although I will say there are still scores of P5 schools who would kill to have our tournament success). But if you accept tournament performance as the only barometer of success, you're bound to be frustrated.
From my perspective, tournament success definitely matters, but there are a lot more things to consider--regular season performance, player development, player off-court behavior and academic performance. From those perspectives, Purdue fares better. And I'll be perfectly honest, I am satisfied with that. I would like a Final Four and a National Championship--who wouldn't? But I also recognize that we do have a pretty good thing going with the current program.
I know all the responses of people who take the opposite view--I'm handing out participation trophies, or I'm accepting mediocrity, or whatever. But in fact, it's hard to run a successful and (relatively) clean D1 basketball program. I think Painter does that successfully, and that's not something to throw away.
Great post.
Plus he isn't getting fired. And I expect that even with a new AD if the team finishes in the top 10 like it did this year, he won't be fired then either.
And that isn't accepting mediocrity either because Painter isn't mediocre. He just isn't. He is probably more "above average" right now than anything else.
Also the coach that some are looking for does not exist. There is no perfect coach and any new coach will make mistakes ad well.
I understand the frustration, I was epically mad at how the season ended ad well, but most of the responses on here to me seem more emotionally charged that rationally thought out. The issues we had are not unique to just Purdue by any stretch and as mathboy keeps saying, watch more than Purdue and you will see it.
Here is what I envision happening if Painter is fired, the new coach better never make a mistake and get a final four in a few short years, or the flip side of those that don't want Painter fired will be doing what the fire Painter crowd are doing now.
And again for the record I am in the wait and see crowd simply because he isn't getting fired. And if Carsen can live up to half the expectations on here, Matt will have a complete team and we all will then know whether he can be successful or not.
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Ya, 2013 and 2014 were hard to swallow.
The first round exits in 2015 and 2016 (especially how Purdue lost) have been really tough.
Still, I don't want Painter fired, and for a variety of reasons:
1) I don't want Morgan Burke hiring his replacement. I don't hate Morgan, but he's not up to the task.
2) How many quality coaches would even apply for the gig under a lame-duck AD?
3) I want to see how next year pans out. There's a talented and cohesive group coming back next year. The front line should still be formidable with Isaac and Caleb. I think Vince Edwards will emerge as the play maker that's been missing on this team. IMO, a more free flowing offense (as opposed to forcing everything inside) will help our outside shooters. I'm not here to argue about point guards, but I was reasonably pleased with PJ this year. I think he'll be more effective if Vince emerges as the guy who can both slash to the hoop and step back and knock down 3s. We need that kind of player on the floor, but I'm not convinced it has to be the point guard.
4) Painter has his limitations, but how many coaches are really going to look at our program and say, "Man, they fired a guy who won 26 games. Let me jump on that!"
The first round exits in 2015 and 2016 (especially how Purdue lost) have been really tough.
Still, I don't want Painter fired, and for a variety of reasons:
1) I don't want Morgan Burke hiring his replacement. I don't hate Morgan, but he's not up to the task.
2) How many quality coaches would even apply for the gig under a lame-duck AD?
3) I want to see how next year pans out. There's a talented and cohesive group coming back next year. The front line should still be formidable with Isaac and Caleb. I think Vince Edwards will emerge as the play maker that's been missing on this team. IMO, a more free flowing offense (as opposed to forcing everything inside) will help our outside shooters. I'm not here to argue about point guards, but I was reasonably pleased with PJ this year. I think he'll be more effective if Vince emerges as the guy who can both slash to the hoop and step back and knock down 3s. We need that kind of player on the floor, but I'm not convinced it has to be the point guard.
4) Painter has his limitations, but how many coaches are really going to look at our program and say, "Man, they fired a guy who won 26 games. Let me jump on that!"
I'm thinking it's more likely that Painter leave after next year than he gets fired. Money has skyrocketed and his salary hasn't. Plus he may not want to deal with a new AD which is why it's critical we hire one ASAP. He is going to want more money and it's important it be dealt with this summer or kiss 2017 recruits goodbye.
It's not silly if your coach hasn't performed for several years. Look at Oklahoma State.
Do you think he would take another job or just quit? I'm not sure he is going to be getting offers right now from other big programs.
Robbie is a good choice, painter can butter his bread in New Mexico once Craig Neal is canned. The death threats are not going to fly and he needs to go before he wrecks that program over in Albuquerque.
A lot of programs would consider him an upgrade and the money is getting stupid even at less than elite programs. We'd have more to spread around if we could figure out how to put a few fans in Ross Ade on fall Saturdays instead of continuing to drain off more money in a sport that isn't producing.
Yeah. This is could play out considering the circumstances.
Painter has some leverage, but I don't see an extension coming this year in the middle of the AD transition. The new AD will not be attached to him. Could spell Missouri all over again and there will be less resistance to him leaving this time around.
I vote for a fresh beginning. Let's recruit Pitino, build casinos in W.Laf. build adult entertainment clubs, and ......oh wait..... let's not, let's put more pressure on Painter to do better, hire Robbie as asst. coach, and increase the recruiting budget 10x. Lets put Purdue on the map with outlandish uni's too
I have thought the same to myself...like you, I think it makes sense and is a genuine possibility, and far more so if next year is not as good as most expect or it ends like the past two years have...very similar to the Jamie Dixon situation, except Dixon left to return to his Alma Mater and Painter does not have that option obviously...but I could definitely see him making a move on his own, especially if there was something appealing to him out there.
He made it past the 1st round in the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 5 tries out of 8 years at Oklahoma State (his first year no less). OK State finished in top 3 in the Big 12 once in 8 years and he had a sub-.500 (44%) win record in the Big 12.
That's NOT a comparison.
Also, this will be Oklahoma State's 3rd coach since 2006. Easier to complain about than to accomplish.
Rutgers new basketball coach got 5 years and 8 million just walking in the door and some incentives that can be earned on top of that. People who think that Painter makes way above market value just don't understand that market. UNLV is reportedly ready to throw 3 million a year at Mick Cronin.
Painter isn't getting fired....But in 2016 Painter had 4 chances to prove he could coach up a great team this year to 4 goals....
1. Conference reg. season title -- competitive, but failed
2. Tourney title - close, but failed
3. Beat iu for in state bravodo - failed
4. Great NCAA showing - major fail
So I definitely understand the disappointment and questioning his performance this year as in striving for the above people feel that he didn't make the coaching moves to help his great team achieve as a team to their maximum ability.
1. Conference reg. season title -- competitive, but failed
2. Tourney title - close, but failed
3. Beat iu for in state bravodo - failed
4. Great NCAA showing - major fail
So I definitely understand the disappointment and questioning his performance this year as in striving for the above people feel that he didn't make the coaching moves to help his great team achieve as a team to their maximum ability.
At least OK State isn't content with performing below expectations!
Hopefully this most recent tournament doesn't become the cherry on top for the studs in Indiana not to come to Purdue.
Purdue hasn't done well in Indiana since the class of 2012 (and even then, it couldn't land a Gary Harris, GRobIII, etc.), so why would you expect for it to change?
All of the big boys (Scruggs, Wilkes, Williams, etc.) aren't coming to Purdue.
By the time they finish firing and hiring new coaches, they should really have that program in the toilet. Good luck Okie's!
Wow this thread has quickly become ridiculous. I'm astonished at how many "fans" of a school with such a good academic reputation can be such idiots...
Hmm I wonder what caused this "ridiculous" thread...maybe another "ridiculous" meltdown, this time, at the hands of ARKANSAS - LITTLE ROCK.
Ridiculous thread = warranted.
Good point. Painter has gotten Purdue into the tournament the last 2 years after 2 awful seasons. Plus in the Big 10 final. Unfortunately lost a couple of tough 1st rd games in the tourney in overtime. He also has a good nucleus coming back this coming year.
Watching the upsets in the tourney. My view is you get into the tourney and it's mostly a crapshoot. Almost a lottery ticket today. Even these teams from the small conferences that have to go through so many hoops to get in are primed for their one shot at getting attention. Cincy had lost 3 1st rd tourney games until beating Purdue last year. Cincy lost again this year. I am sure their fan base is frustrated.
BTW West Virginia who alot of people thought would go to Final 4 under Huggins. They looked like they just flat out quit in their 1st rd game. Purdue lost 2 games 2 years in a roll in OT. Purdue may have blown those leads but they didn't quit.
I think these days, the first round is the toughest round for these 3-7 seeds. The 10-14 seeds are no joke. They typically are guard oriented, which obviously can be a threat with the 3 pt line. They can't sustain success for the most part because they don't have that inside presence - but for 1 game, you just need to be on a little bit and a team they're playing needs to be off just a little bit. While the way last year's game sucked, it wasn't exactly an upset. And we've played some "popular upset" picks like LR before and took care of business every time. So to point it out as some disturbing trend or what not - eh. Memory's are short I guess.
In the tournament under Painter:
Purdue is 3-6 against better seeded teams (including two #1 seeds and one #2 seed).
Purdue is 5-2 against worse seeded teams.
I made a similar point previously. The committee seems to refuse to seed any power conference "bubble teams" lower than a 10 or 11. Consequently teams like 29 win ALR or MTS get stuck with 12 or 13 seeds when actually they are more deserving of a 10 seed than some of those power conference teams. It's a perfect formula for an upset.
They got Brad Underwood. I think their program will be quite far from the toilet. Painter had ours there a couple of years ago.
crean made it to the sweet sixteen, big deal....... he's losing 4 players to the nba and only won 2 games in the tournament (obviously they are losing to UNC this coming friday night, that's a no brainer..... that have a 22% chance of winning that game on one site and a 19% chance of winning on another site, then add the Crean factor in and i think you take another 10% chance off of those original numbers). Then also, Robert Johnson is not available for friday due to a twisted ankle re-injury. So bottom line, IU's two win NCAA tourney effort is just shameful with 4 sure-fire future nba players on their team....are they gunna fire Crean? Big poop that he beat Kentucky, a team that was awful compared to their norm. Indiana is same ole Indiana. I can't wait to watch Clappy friday night, his fake tan will turn to red and embarrassment. A crimson-faced clappy-tan, can't wait.
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For all the talk of Rob there are some important considerations. First, he may not be done playing. He is here rehabbing from an injury. Second, he isn't anywhere near being at staff level. Three, we have Kenneth Lowe on the staff and we need that inroad to NW Indiana and likely South Chicago.
There is no legitimate talk of Rob...could not possibly be any...it is a pipe dream of people that like Rob the player/person, and nothing more. First off, as discussed already, Painter is not going anywhere unless he elects to do so on his own, and even that is incredibly unlikely at this point. Second, if/when he does, no way does someone with absolutely zero coaching experience replace him.
While I like Kenneth a great deal, I don't know that he is genuinely serving as any inroad to NW Indiana, never mind Chicago...not that he could not, especially if he were an actual assistant, but Purdue desperately needs someone that is a big time recruiter on that staff...maybe he could fill that role...I would not mind seeing him get a chance.
Quit acting dim and take your head out of the sand.....you know damn well what he's talking about: Purdue has landed 1 Mr Basketball in the last 2+ decades.....during the year in which the state of Indiana had the worst crop of talent it has had in over a decade when Justin Cage won it in 2003.....and the 1 Mr Basketball in 20+ years they did land just so happened to have a guardian who just so happened to have played football and basketball at Purdue take custody of him when he was making his college decision; this is hardly a scenario Purdue would be able to duplicate again.
It's stupid because it basically acknowledges that the 'average' power conf teams are better than the good mid-major without actually acknowledging it. I wouldn't want to face Michigan as a 13 seed either. Overall, there is more parity in basketball when it comes to a tournament. However, as I mentioned, the smaller conference teams for the most part do not have what it takes to grab more than just a game, maybe two. You know, put Little Rock on our schedule 5 times and we probably beat them 4/5. However, it's just the 1 game, single elimination part of the NCAA Tournament that is just brutal.
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