The tale of two Matt Painers

[StateStreet123]

"Hi, I'm Matt Painter. I coached the first half against Iowa and I have Direct TV."

"And I'm Matt Painter. I coached the second half, and I have Cable."


I was at the game. During the first half when Iowa sat back in the 1-2-2 trap I was just waiting for when they were going to up their aggressiveness to trap. The lob passes and slow dribble over the line were fine when they didnt trap. DirectTV Matt was happy. But in the second hal once the trap got aggressivef...YOU HAVE TO GET AGGRESSIVE! And that includes with the dribble once you receive the pass 4 feet from the mid court line!

But regardless of stratey, why why why did we not try somebody other than PJ when it was clear we couldnt get the ball over half court and get in an offense. Cable Matt watched the lead evaporate from 18 to 0 (or worse) before he put in Hill. Listen, I love PJ. It just wasnt working at that particular time SO MAKE A CHANGE.

I know PJ takes care of the ball better than Hill in general. But again, the lead went from 18 to 0. The definition of insanity is,...trying the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result....

Cable Matt lost that game for us. Don't blame PJ. Don't blame Ray. Blame the coaching strategy, which emphasized PASSIVE NOT AGGRESSIVE answer to the trap; and did not try different personnel when it wasnt working.

 

[takedownboiler]

The lob passes were ok to a point. Then it seemed like we would always make one too many instead of dribbling up the floor. Also it seemed like every pass that got us across mid court would leave us just inside the line waiting to be trapped. If we're going to make extra passes that pass that gets us across the line needs to put us in a position to not be trapped.

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

"Hi, I'm Matt Painter. I coached the first half against Iowa and I have Direct TV."

"And I'm Matt Painter. I coached the second half, and I have Cable."


I was at the game. During the first half when Iowa sat back in the 1-2-2 trap I was just waiting for when they were going to up their aggressiveness to trap. The lob passes and slow dribble over the line were fine when they didnt trap. DirectTV Matt was happy. But in the second hal once the trap got aggressivef...YOU HAVE TO GET AGGRESSIVE! And that includes with the dribble once you receive the pass 4 feet from the mid court line!

But regardless of stratey, why why why did we not try somebody other than PJ when it was clear we couldnt get the ball over half court and get in an offense. Cable Matt watched the lead evaporate from 18 to 0 (or worse) before he put in Hill. Listen, I love PJ. It just wasnt working at that particular time SO MAKE A CHANGE.

I know PJ takes care of the ball better than Hill in general. But again, the lead went from 18 to 0. The definition of insanity is,...trying the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result....

Cable Matt lost that game for us. Don't blame PJ. Don't blame Ray. Blame the coaching strategy, which emphasized PASSIVE NOT AGGRESSIVE answer to the trap; and did not try different personnel when it wasnt working.

Matt "Painers", I like Matt "Painer" better.

CMP is a good coach not a great coach so Saturday was not a big surprise.

If this team doesn't figure out how to keep its poise and how to execute its play better we will see more and more ups and downs the rest of the season.

 

[rsomm]

You genius ever get the idea that maybe, just maybe Iowa is the best team in the Big 10?

 

[BBG]

You genius ever get the idea that maybe, just maybe Iowa is the best team in the Big 10?

No. Only unfounded Painter bashing is allowed. How good the other team is irrelevant.

 

[takedownboiler]

I'm a huge Painter fan. And I think Iowa is very good and underrated. But it's been like this with the press since LewJack left.

 

[BBG]

I'm a huge Painter fan. And I think Iowa is very good and underrated. But it's been like this with the press since LewJack left.

Not completely true, Octeus could break the press.

Part of it falls on the players too. They are the ones on the court, making decisions and PJ I think can be Lewjackish.. he just has to get the confidence and do the work to get there.

 

[boiler_pride]

Not completely true, Octeus could break the press.

Part of it falls on the players too. They are the ones on the court, making decisions and PJ I think can be Lewjackish.. he just has to get the confidence and do the work to get there.

Well PJ is not as talented or athletic as LewJack and we can't expect him to develop those traits out of thin air. To me it was obvious he was bothered by Iowa's length and he was having trouble reading the traps. I'm not sure why Painter kept him (and Dakota too, who equally struggled reading the press and providing an outlet for PJ but for some reason gets a pass here) in so long.

Anyway, I think there are lessons to be learned from this game. We still have a very talented team. We *should* be able to make a deep run in the tourney. But we're far from being perfect or even being a top-5 team even in a weak year like this one.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

You genius ever get the idea that maybe, just maybe Iowa is the best team in the Big 10?

If that were true, they wouldn't have been getting FACE MELTED for 2/3 of the game. Purdue blew it, at home, in front of a great crowd and was up 15 with 15 to play. No excuses. No Iowa is not the best in the B1G. This team is passive. The whole team. And the only guy who isn't, Ray, looks hurt and rickety.

 

[DG10]

"Hi, I'm Matt Painter. I coached the first half against Iowa and I have Direct TV."

"And I'm Matt Painter. I coached the second half, and I have Cable."


I was at the game. During the first half when Iowa sat back in the 1-2-2 trap I was just waiting for when they were going to up their aggressiveness to trap. The lob passes and slow dribble over the line were fine when they didnt trap. DirectTV Matt was happy. But in the second hal once the trap got aggressivef...YOU HAVE TO GET AGGRESSIVE! And that includes with the dribble once you receive the pass 4 feet from the mid court line!

Really good post, and I love the two Matt Painters...

How/why he stuck with PJ for 15 minutes defies any and all logic...especially in that Hill had handled the token pressure with ease in the first half, and he not only had no issues when he entered, but he attacked and beat it on his own the very first time that he had the opportunity to do so. The only point in your post that I would disagree with to an extent was the suggestion not to blame the players, as PJ made decisions that the average 4th grade basketball player is taught not to make against pressure defense...and made them multiple times...and Davis is simply careless with the basketball (which is compounded when there is pressure defense).

It was clear from the outset of the second half that even on the rare instance that Purdue handled the Iowa pressure that their primary intention was to run clock...and that comes from the sidelines and coaching staff.

 

[DG10]

You genius ever get the idea that maybe, just maybe Iowa is the best team in the Big 10?

The thought never even crossed my mind, not even for a second...because they simply are not. Better than Purdue perhaps...despite not being as talented...but 3rd best in the B1G at best and maybe not even that.

 

[BoilerDeac]

No. Only unfounded Painter bashing is allowed. How good the other team is irrelevant.

Oh stop. Purdue blew a 19 point lead all because it couldn't handle a press. Nobody isn't giving Iowa credit. I'm a CMP fan, but this was on him.

Honestly, it's kind of sad that Purdue was trounced by something as simple as a full-court press for an entire half. The thing doesn't even work in the NBA, yet Purdue made it look like the most dangerous defensive strategy ever created.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Really good post, and I love the two Matt Painters...

How/why he stuck with PJ for 15 minutes defies any and all logic...especially in that Hill had handled the token pressure with ease in the first half, and he not only had no issues when he entered, but he attacked and beat it on his own the very first time that he had the opportunity to do so. The only point in your post that I would disagree with to an extent was the suggestion not to blame the players, as PJ made decisions that the average 4th grade basketball player is taught not to make against pressure defense...and made them multiple times...and Davis is simply careless with the basketball (which is compounded when there is pressure defense).

It was clear from the outset of the second half that even on the rare instance that Purdue handled the Iowa pressure that their primary intention was to run clock...and that comes from the sidelines and coaching staff.

Agree - Painter made a mistake in not seeing PJT could not handle the press or maybe that was just an example of Painter's famous stubbornness.....saying to PJT - you need to learn how to do this for the future. But in the end Painter's decision flat out lost this game for Purdue.

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

No. Only unfounded Painter bashing is allowed. How good the other team is irrelevant.

Bashing is a bit harsh.

I said that he is a good coach and he is.

Great coaches win and win virtually every season.

Painter ever demonstrates that he is great and I will happily congratulate him or you .

 

[BBG]

Bashing is a bit harsh.

I said that he is a good coach and he is.

Great coaches win and win virtually every season.

Painter ever demonstrates that he is great and I will happily congratulate him or you .

Painter will get there. Other than a couple seasons he has had teams that won pretty consistently.

As TJBOILER said he is still building up from the years he made mistakes. No coach is or ever will be perfect. Not a one and they all stumble to some extent.

 

[*4purdue*]

Agree - Painter made a mistake in not seeing PJT could not handle the press or maybe that was just an example of Painter's famous stubbornness.....saying to PJT - you need to learn how to do this for the future. But in the end Painter's decision flat out lost this game for Purdue.

I can't quite remember a game where the coach made no adjustment to what was killing us for the entire second half. I was at the game and it was obvious to everyone in the stands. The fans were booing when PJ would walk the ball up to what everyone knew was going to be a 1/2 court trap. We never adjusted until it was to late. I like PJ, but he would dribble into a trap and with his size, it was a sure turnover.

 

[Dryfly88]

I can't quite remember a game where the coach made no adjustment to what was killing us for the entire second half. I was at the game and it was obvious to everyone in the stands. The fans were booing when PJ would walk the ball up to what everyone knew was going to be a 1/2 court trap. We never adjusted until it was to late. I like PJ, but he would dribble into a trap and with his size, it was a sure turnover.

Exactly.

I'm not going to jump on the bash CMP wagon. I was just very disappointed that we couldn't seem to figure out that if you keep the ball towards the middle of the floor and ATTACK the press you will have good results. Slowly walking the ball up the floor is not going to do it. That is exactly what they want. Once you cross the 10 second line you attack the defense that is when it's most vulnerable. Instead we would passively pass the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock got to single digits and then hoist up a contested shot.

AJ and Haas shot 80% from the field. Get the damn ball across the line and attack the basket. Iowa played well in the 2nd half and we contributed greatly to that success.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I can't quite remember a game where the coach made no adjustment to what was killing us for the entire second half. I was at the game and it was obvious to everyone in the stands. The fans were booing when PJ would walk the ball up to what everyone knew was going to be a 1/2 court trap. We never adjusted until it was to late. I like PJ, but he would dribble into a trap and with his size, it was a sure turnover.

No doubt Painter saw it too.....That is why I think it was just Painter being very stubborn and bull headed again....with PJT giving him chances over and over to learn on the floor....regardless of he outcome for this game he needs PJT to get it for future games. So that had to be what was going on???

A different coach would have taken PJT out immediately, pulled him aside and pointed out what was needed, and then put him back in to execute properly. But I guess Painter prefers on the job training for these lessons of survival.

 

[BBG]

No doubt Painter saw it too.....That is why I think it was just Painter being very stubborn and bull headed again....with PJT giving him chances over and over to learn on the floor....regardless of he outcome for this game he needs PJT to get it for future games. So that had to be what was going on???

A different coach would have taken PJT out immediately, pulled him aside and pointed out what was needed, and then put him back in to execute properly. But I guess Painter prefers on the job training for these lessons of survival.

Every player is going to learn differently. Maybe PJ learns by doing rather than instruction. I have no clue since I'm not on the bench so who knows.

 

[gelesen]

I'd like to point out a few things. PJ had 2 to's in this game. If you watch the game later after calming down many of the critical turnovers occurred in the front court by Davis and Swanigan (7 between them or half of the team total), This was a team loss not a songle players fault. Iowa also got some outstanding play from some some unexpected players--stuff happens sometimes. By the way, MSU had 16 to's vs Iowa, 2 more than us.

 

[CRBoiler]

I'd like to point out a few things. PJ had 2 to's in this game. If you watch the game later after calming down many of the critical turnovers occurred in the front court by Davis and Swanigan (7 between them or half of the team total), This was a team loss not a songle players fault. Iowa also got some outstanding play from some some unexpected players--stuff happens sometimes. By the way, MSU had 16 to's vs Iowa, 2 more than us.

Yes, agree. I think the press hurt us more by taking us out of our offensive rhythm than it did by creating turnovers. We got past Iowa's press most possessions, but failed afterward. As others have indicated, we need a "beat the press" lineup that can not only get past the press but succeed offensively afterward. Need handlers, passers, & scorers... I'd vote for Hill, AJ, Vince, Mathias, and ??? (Biggie and Ray seemed to have trouble playing in this mode... maybe KS?).

 

[BBG]

Yes, agree. I think the press hurt us more by taking us out of our offensive rhythm than it did by creating turnovers. We got past Iowa's press most possessions, but failed afterward. As others have indicated, we need a "beat the press" lineup that can not only get past the press but succeed offensively afterward. Need handlers, passers, & scorers... I'd vote for Hill, AJ, Vince, Mathias, and ??? (Biggie and Ray seemed to have trouble playing in this mode... maybe KS?).

I'd put Cline in that remaining slot. He seems to have good vision and makes good decisions for the most part.

 

[loftygoal]

This

Painter will get there. Other than a couple seasons he has had teams that won pretty consistently.

As TJBOILER said he is still building up from the years he made mistakes. No coach is or ever will be perfect. Not a one and they all stumble to some extent.

This was a complete, unmitigated disaster. This wasn't a road game. This was in front of a packed house - our house. Painter has been around long enough that this should never happen. That this team was unprepared for handing a full court press is incomprehensible. Painter will get there? Really? When?

 

[uelnesm]

My perspective on Painter:
'09-'10 is last year we went to sweet 16 - that's six years back.
He was very strong '07-'10 that's now getting 6-9 years back.


Is he a top tier big 10 coach like Izzo or Bo Ryan? I don't think so. Is he a good middle of the road coach that seems to get some hot streaks in recruiting. Yeah - he likely is.

Does he get the most out of his players like Keady did? Not sure. I think we should be more dominant inside with our "skyline". Seems like we have a hard time executing an offense that gets the ball inside. I think this is coachable skill.

Can we break a press? Doesn't appear so. Should a team that is likely top 25 in the country with players the caliber that we have be able to break a press at some point over a 20 minute half against a good team like Iowa? I think so. is that a coachable team skill? Yeah. I think it is.

Is Iowa very good - yes

Is Painter a good coach - Sure

Is Painter a great coach - not sure. I don't think a tom Izzo or Bo Ryan coached Purdue team loses that game on Saturday.

 

[alwaysaboiler]

This

This was a complete, unmitigated disaster. This wasn't a road game. This was in front of a packed house - our house. Painter has been around long enough that this should never happen. That this team was unprepared for handing a full court press is incomprehensible. Painter will get there? Really? When?

There have been only 3 games in Purdue history where we have had a 19 point lead and lost. All three have been under painter. I wish people would quit making excuses for him. He runs the ship, he sinks the ship. I honestly do not think things will change until the motion offense in ditched. it is too complicated.

 

[Dryfly88]

There have been only 3 games in Purdue history where we have had a 19 point lead and lost. All three have been under painter. I wish people would quit making excuses for him. He runs the ship, he sinks the ship. I honestly do not think things will change until the motion offense in ditched. it is too complicated.

Is this true? I'm sincerely asking. There have been 118 years of PU basketball and we have only lost a 19 point lead 3 times? That doesn't sound possible.

 

[alwaysaboiler]

I read this, I believe on hammer and rails.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Well, it seems more difficult to overcome that kind of a deficit without a shot-clock and three-point line.

 

[pumsu]

Is this true? I'm sincerely asking. There have been 118 years of PU basketball and we have only lost a 19 point lead 3 times? That doesn't sound possible.

 

[pumsu]

Yes true. Reported in J&C

 

[BBG]

I don't think a tom Izzo or Bo Ryan coached Purdue team loses that game on Saturday.

Izzo just lost to Iowa, I get what you mean, just sayin'

Also comparatively, Painter is somewhat of a "still learning" coach. Not making any excuses for him, just saying he has some learning to do yet.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Izzo just lost to Iowa, I get what you mean, just sayin'

Also comparatively, Painter is somewhat of a "still learning" coach. Not making any excuses for him, just saying he has some learning to do yet.

That game was AT Iowa, Michigan State didn't squander a 19 point lead, and weren't up by 17 at half time.

I despise Izzo and M$U, but I highly doubt that happens to an Izzo-coached team at home.

 

[Dryfly88]

Yes true. Reported in J&C

I think that's amazing it has only happened 3 times. Thanks for verifying.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I think that's amazing it has only happened 3 times. Thanks for verifying.

was one of the games at Xavier 4 or 5 yrs. ago? where we "took the foot off the gas " at 9 mins. to go in the game and lost?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

was one of the games at Xavier 4 or 5 yrs. ago? where we "took the foot off the gas " at 9 mins. to go in the game and lost?

Yes.....2011; Purdue led by 19 with a little over 10 mins left and didn't score a FG the last 6+ minutes of the game.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I would imagine this happens usually @ away games......how many were home games?

 

[loftygoal]

Izzo just lost to Iowa, I get what you mean, just sayin'

Also comparatively, Painter is somewhat of a "still learning" coach. Not making any excuses for him, just saying he has some learning to do yet.

Here's the problem: This is likely a season killer. This is a team that should be able to go deep in the tourney -- but after this fiasco?? I don't know how they recover. I can tell you the mood in the stands was a celebration at half time. We were speculating what IA would do after the half and several of the guys said they would probably come back after the half with a press. If us idiots speculated this certainly Painter should have had the team ready.
Here's news to the Purdue administration -- we don't go to these games to watch the team compete -- we go to watch them win. Winning at home is everything. When they scratch their heads trying to figure out why attendance isn't better, they should refer to this game. The mentality of the athletic dept needs to change - losing at home is unacceptable. Football has hit this slippery slope and fallen deep into the abyss.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Painter has been Head-coaching since 03-04 .....He absolutely should not be STILL LEARNING!!! My gawd that's 12 flipping years. Sheesh BBG! LOL

 

[boilerzz]

Here's the problem: This is likely a season killer. This is a team that should be able to go deep in the tourney -- but after this fiasco?? I don't know how they recover.

 

[BBG]

Here's the problem: This is likely a season killer.

I stopped reading at this point... this is the same rhetoric we heard last year then things turned around. There are way too many games left to give up so easily.