The REAL Reason Putin Is Invading Ukraine??? Interesting perspective, but onenot mentioned??
- Thread starter tjreese
- Start date
So essentially watch McGregor on Tucker's show and blame NATO and the west for trying to expand liberal globalism into Ukraine. We gave Putin no choice. He had no choice.
Tucker lies and says elements in Congress are saying ......and the media is almost unanimously calling for.......... a no NATO no fly zone. No. And not going to happen.
NATO is weaker and will not enforce article 5 because it will cost too much money.
And don't miss the RINO hunting boot camp conference from the patriot professor.
Tucker lies and says elements in Congress are saying ......and the media is almost unanimously calling for.......... a no NATO no fly zone. No. And not going to happen.
NATO is weaker and will not enforce article 5 because it will cost too much money.
And don't miss the RINO hunting boot camp conference from the patriot professor.
I'll disagree with you on one point. Germany was clearly hindering the sanctions response to Russia because of their relationship with, and dependence on, Russian energy (Schroder, the former Chancellor who is on the board of Russian energy companies and Sholz who has ties to Russia energy as well).
I would be willing to 100% bet the farm that they would have pushed back on any article 5 if Ukraine would have been a NATO partner.
1) They don't want to lose Russian energy - the economic cost to them would be huge.
2) Their military is incredibly weak right now.
You can talk about the idiot Tucker and some of the other idiots in the GOP that don't think we should be involved all you want. They're morons...just the squad side of the Democratic party are morons...
Do you think the Obama admin's role in ousting the elected Pres. Yanukovych in 2014 because of his preference for Russia over Europe contributed in any way to Putin's paranoia, Bob?
The released Nuland phone call with our Ukraine amb blew the cover on that interference in Ukraine gov affairs, in case you doubt it.
What role was that? The phone call got him ousted? The one where they talked aboutYou mean all the protests and unrest when Yanukovych did a U turn the EU was coordinated and created by the US? Why don't you quote something in the phone call that shows we interfered?
It wasn't that the people of Ukraine didn't want a Putin puppet as president?
I think Yanukovych being removed absolutely had something to do with how Putin feels now because.......you know......his boy was no longer in power. Seems pretty logical.
I guess you're trying to say that a democratic president was responsible for the Soviet backed president of Ukraine being tossed out, and that pissed Putin off, therefore he invaded Ukraine, and so Obama is responsible for everything happening right now.
Totally logical.
WTF are you even talking about? Did you get your meds from the Ukraine or something and run out?
Our top foreign policy strategists since the Cold War have argued that expanding NATO into Eastern Europe would provoke Russia. That includes guys like Kissinger.
So now I'm pro Russian? Are you paying attention?
I asked in another reply to you to no avail. I'll make it simpler. Do these democracies in eastern Europe get to decide for themselves who to allie with?
Bob, for the sake of argument, even if you are naive enough to think we didn't have a role, do you think that Putin knowing the US was discussing who we should support to take Yanuk's place and so forth contributed to making him more paranoid than he already was?
It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne
Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
You can phrase the question differently, doesn't change my answer.Bob, for the sake of argument, even if you are naive enough to think we didn't have a role, do you think that Putin knowing the US was discussing who we should support to take Yanuk's place and so forth contributed to making him more paranoid than he already was?
It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne
Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us allwww.theguardian.com
The question is the size of the role, isn't it? The fact that American officials were discussing who they would like to see in authority in Ukraine doesn't mean there was interference.......or that it could be significant enough to have much effect......based on what we know from that phone call.
You want to speculate on Putin's paranoia and what causeed it, contributed to it, or increased it? Have at it.
With his paranoia you keep referencing, seems to me the idea the US would be working against him in Ukraine would already be part of that.
Excerpts from this week's WSJ Weekend interview.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine resulted from two immense strategic blunders, Robert Service says. The first came on Nov. 10, when the U.S. and Ukraine signed a Charter on Strategic Partnership, which asserted America’s support for Kyiv’s right to pursue membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The pact made it likelier than ever that Ukraine would eventually join NATO—an intolerable prospect for Vladimir Putin. “It was the last straw,” Mr. Service says. Preparations immediately began for Russia’s so-called special military operation in Ukraine."
Mr. Service, 74, is a veteran historian of Russia, a professor emeritus at St. Antony’s College, Oxford and a fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution. He has written biographies of Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky.
"The November agreement added heft to looser assurances Ukraine received at a NATO summit five months earlier that membership would be open to the country if it met the alliance’s criteria. Mr. Service characterizes these moves as “shambolic mismanagement” by the West, which offered Ukraine encouragement on the NATO question but gave no apparent thought to how such a tectonic move away from Moscow would go down with Mr. Putin. “Nothing was done to prepare the Ukrainians for the kind of negative response that they would get.”
Bob, can you not see that US diplomatic and strategic bungling and corruption here, extending back to the 2014 ouster if not earlier, made the ongoing tragedy much more likely than if we had kept our noses out of Euro-Russian squabbles as we should have? It is not that difficult to understand, Bob.
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In July 2021 he wrote an essay that foretold the invasion. Mr. Service sums it up as saying, “more or less, that Ukrainians and Russians are one people.” Mr. Putin had said so many times before, “but not as angrily and punchily—and emotionally.”
It rankles Mr. Putin that Ukraine would seek to join the West—and not merely because he wants it as a satellite state. He also “can’t afford to allow life to a neighboring Slav state which has even a smidgen of democratic development. His Russian people might get dangerous ideas.”
As a result of the invasion, which began on Feb. 24, “the U.S. has started to get its act together,” Mr. Service says. “But I don’t think American diplomacy covered itself in glory in 2021.”
In the grand scheme of things why does it matter what Putin wants, it should be what the Ukrainians want. Putin is just a rigid authoritarian who wants to leave a legacy of a Russian empire and the Ukrainians obviously don't want to be a part of it. Clearly the Ukrainians have had enough of Russia and tens of thousands of them are dying to try to keep from being out from under the corrupt Russia system. I'm tired of hearing about Putin's line in the sand on NATO. Putin is proving what he is a ruthless monster who will kill anyone who stands in his way.
