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The good and the bad (vs. Davidson)

charlespig

All-American
Jun 20, 2014
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The good:
  1. REB. We took 43% of ORBs, when D1-avg is only 29%. Defensively, we took a whopping 87% of REBs. Individually, E-Bo has 5 ORBs (7 total), Nojel 4 ORBs (6 total), and Eifert 4 ORBs (5 total). Cline has 6 DRBs and Haarms 5. It's a collective effort. Now I know how it feels to be an MSU fan to just throw the ball up and still score b/c your team get 2nd and 3rd chances consistently.
  2. Carsen's scoring. 29 pts (5-10 from 2s, 6-11 from 3s, 1-1 FT). He is the only one who can finish reliably. Our offense goes as Carsen goes.
  3. Haarms' post-up. For a stretch, Haarms was unstoppable posting up his poor defender, who just doesn't have the height. I wonder why we stopped doing that entirely the rest of the game. Also, given Haarms' height, why aren't we lobbing him some alley-oop? He doesn't even need to jump much.
  4. Haarms' decision-making. I was surprised when I see Haarms have a 4:1 AST/TO ratio. One of those was a beautiful pass off double-team to a diving Nojel. He played 19 mins and had 10 pts, 5 REBs, 4 ASTs - if you double that it's 38 mins, 20 pts, 10 REBs, and 8 ASTs! Best of all, he didn't pick up one foul at all tonight.

The bad:
  1. Missing open 3s. While our 38.2% (13-of-34) is respectable, that number could easily be 50% if not for MULTIPLE open 3s that we missed. Eifert took 5 and 4 of them are wide open, but he made only 1. The same with everyone not named Carsen Edwards. We can have one possession where we got 3 ORBs and missed all three 3s. It's frustrating to come up empty. On the bright side, you just have to be drooling how dangerous this team can be if the guys can actually be calmed down and knock down those open 3s.
  2. Carsen's decision-making. Sometimes he seems to be forcing things, like the last possession of the first half (he was going 1-on-3 and fortunate that Nojel got the ORB putback). In addition, he has 4 TOs (only 3 ASTs).
  3. Setting picks. Maybe I am spoiled by the unmovable Haas' screens that we've had in the last 4 years, but it feels like this year our players aren't doing as good a job as setting screens. The first 3 from Cline was a set play where we had two players screening for him as he curled around the baseline, and still the defender was able to get reasonably close to him b/c those screens aren't solid enough.
  4. The court. Somehow it seems like the floor is very slippery, esp. in the first half, and multiple players slipped. And then the angle feels like it is from the ceiling.
  5. Officiating. I am not impressed at all. Seems like they are calling us too tight, and a lot of petty fouls that wouldn't be fouls in the B1G.
 
The good:
  1. REB. We took 43% of ORBs, when D1-avg is only 29%. Defensively, we took a whopping 87% of REBs. Individually, E-Bo has 5 ORBs (7 total), Nojel 4 ORBs (6 total), and Eifert 4 ORBs (5 total). Cline has 6 DRBs and Haarms 5. It's a collective effort. Now I know how it feels to be an MSU fan to just throw the ball up and still score b/c your team get 2nd and 3rd chances consistently.
  2. Carsen's scoring. 29 pts (5-10 from 2s, 6-11 from 3s, 1-1 FT). He is the only one who can finish reliably. Our offense goes as Carsen goes.
  3. Haarms' post-up. For a stretch, Haarms was unstoppable posting up his poor defender, who just doesn't have the height. I wonder why we stopped doing that entirely the rest of the game. Also, given Haarms' height, why aren't we lobbing him some alley-oop? He doesn't even need to jump much.
  4. Haarms' decision-making. I was surprised when I see Haarms have a 4:1 AST/TO ratio. One of those was a beautiful pass off double-team to a diving Nojel. He played 19 mins and had 10 pts, 5 REBs, 4 ASTs - if you double that it's 38 mins, 20 pts, 10 REBs, and 8 ASTs! Best of all, he didn't pick up one foul at all tonight.

The bad:
  1. Missing open 3s. While our 38.2% (13-of-34) is respectable, that number could easily be 50% if not for MULTIPLE open 3s that we missed. Eifert took 5 and 4 of them are wide open, but he made only 1. The same with everyone not named Carsen Edwards. We can have one possession where we got 3 ORBs and missed all three 3s. It's frustrating to come up empty. On the bright side, you just have to be drooling how dangerous this team can be if the guys can actually be calmed down and knock down those open 3s.
  2. Carsen's decision-making. Sometimes he seems to be forcing things, like the last possession of the first half (he was going 1-on-3 and fortunate that Nojel got the ORB putback). In addition, he has 4 TOs (only 3 ASTs).
  3. Setting picks. Maybe I am spoiled by the unmovable Haas' screens that we've had in the last 4 years, but it feels like this year our players aren't doing as good a job as setting screens. The first 3 from Cline was a set play where we had two players screening for him as he curled around the baseline, and still the defender was able to get reasonably close to him b/c those screens aren't solid enough.
  4. The court. Somehow it seems like the floor is very slippery, esp. in the first half, and multiple players slipped. And then the angle feels like it is from the ceiling.
  5. Officiating. I am not impressed at all. Seems like they are calling us too tight, and a lot of petty fouls that wouldn't be fouls in the B1G.
I would mention also Eastern’s defense on Gudmundsson. I think that Eastern is so good defensively that it can be easy to take it for granted, but it was one of the main reasons why Davidson was unable to keep it close.

Purdue has to have one of the best starting backcourts in the country with Carsen and Nojel. One dominates on offense and the other dominates on defense.
 
I think some of Carsen's bad decisions are a result of forcing trying to be a "playmaker". Early in the game he split a double and had an open look at the FT line, but then just chucked it into the stands. That's not Carsen being Carsen.

Agree 100% on the floor and refs being bad. There were 0 FT in the first half last night. I don't want to watch a foul fest, but it's basically impossible that nobody got fouled while shooting for an entire half.
 
We are about to find out how good we really are at the guard position. VT has has some really good guards.
 
We are about to find out how good we really are at the guard position. VT has has some really good guards.
You are absolutely right. I watched them play there starting 5 all can make plays off the dribble and 2/3 of them can shoot the 3 ball well. There athletic and play an uptempo style. Bench not much of a threat from what I watched but they get after it on defense. They not a press virgins type team but they do pressure fulll court and try trapping sometimes. There not tall 6”6 to 6”7 is there starting 5 but they play bigger than there size they play hard fast and tough we gotta come with it Sunday. Gonna be a dog fight of a game and they wanna put the ACC on notice that they are legit. We take care of the ball and spread the offense around and get some others involved in the offense if they make it hard on our shooters bcuz they are fast and very athletic can guard the perimeter well we have to go inside to Haarms to utilize his size advantage which he will have like we did against Davidson we will make it hard on them and get some of there starters in foul trouble. Gonna be a hellava game if we come to hoop bcuz that it what they do they hoop
 
The good:
  1. REB. We took 43% of ORBs, when D1-avg is only 29%. Defensively, we took a whopping 87% of REBs. Individually, E-Bo has 5 ORBs (7 total), Nojel 4 ORBs (6 total), and Eifert 4 ORBs (5 total). Cline has 6 DRBs and Haarms 5. It's a collective effort. Now I know how it feels to be an MSU fan to just throw the ball up and still score b/c your team get 2nd and 3rd chances consistently.
  2. Carsen's scoring. 29 pts (5-10 from 2s, 6-11 from 3s, 1-1 FT). He is the only one who can finish reliably. Our offense goes as Carsen goes.
  3. Haarms' post-up. For a stretch, Haarms was unstoppable posting up his poor defender, who just doesn't have the height. I wonder why we stopped doing that entirely the rest of the game. Also, given Haarms' height, why aren't we lobbing him some alley-oop? He doesn't even need to jump much.
  4. Haarms' decision-making. I was surprised when I see Haarms have a 4:1 AST/TO ratio. One of those was a beautiful pass off double-team to a diving Nojel. He played 19 mins and had 10 pts, 5 REBs, 4 ASTs - if you double that it's 38 mins, 20 pts, 10 REBs, and 8 ASTs! Best of all, he didn't pick up one foul at all tonight.

The bad:
  1. Missing open 3s. While our 38.2% (13-of-34) is respectable, that number could easily be 50% if not for MULTIPLE open 3s that we missed. Eifert took 5 and 4 of them are wide open, but he made only 1. The same with everyone not named Carsen Edwards. We can have one possession where we got 3 ORBs and missed all three 3s. It's frustrating to come up empty. On the bright side, you just have to be drooling how dangerous this team can be if the guys can actually be calmed down and knock down those open 3s.
  2. Carsen's decision-making. Sometimes he seems to be forcing things, like the last possession of the first half (he was going 1-on-3 and fortunate that Nojel got the ORB putback). In addition, he has 4 TOs (only 3 ASTs).
  3. Setting picks. Maybe I am spoiled by the unmovable Haas' screens that we've had in the last 4 years, but it feels like this year our players aren't doing as good a job as setting screens. The first 3 from Cline was a set play where we had two players screening for him as he curled around the baseline, and still the defender was able to get reasonably close to him b/c those screens aren't solid enough.
  4. The court. Somehow it seems like the floor is very slippery, esp. in the first half, and multiple players slipped. And then the angle feels like it is from the ceiling.
  5. Officiating. I am not impressed at all. Seems like they are calling us too tight, and a lot of petty fouls that wouldn't be fouls in the B1G.

One good to add - the Purdue fans. They really packed most of the lower level last night.

I second the poor officiating. I really want to see a replay of the foul on the Davidson guy shooting a three in the second half. Seemed like a really weird call. But they didn’t have replays in the arena.

I don’t think we should fault Carsen’s decisions too much. The dude is almost solely responsible for how good we become this year. He’s the most exciting player in the country, so a couple TOs a game is acceptable in my opinion.

The time early on when he threw it in the stands, Nojel had already cut to the basket. Carsen yelled at him, but standing around the three point line waiting for kick out isn’t eastern’s game. He’s our best rebounder and need him crashing the boards.
 
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We are about to find out how good we really are at the guard position. VT has has some really good guards.
I haven’t seen them play, but it looks like they play 4 guards at a time. I agree that this will be a huge test. Purdue will match up a lot differently with this kind of team than a lot of Painter’s more front court focused teams would have. I am a little concerned about guard depth, but hopefully the Boilers can counter by dominating the boards.
 
Maybe we'll see that elusive small ball lineup out of CMP. I definitely think we have the guards to match up well with this team. I think it will be a good chance Eric Sasha,Wheeler will shine.
 
Don't complain about the refs! They are what they are. Learn their philosophy and and learn how to use it in your game plan. Big 10 refs won't be any better.
 
You are absolutely right. I watched them play there starting 5 all can make plays off the dribble and 2/3 of them can shoot the 3 ball well. There athletic and play an uptempo style. Bench not much of a threat from what I watched but they get after it on defense. They not a press virgins type team but they do pressure fulll court and try trapping sometimes. There not tall 6”6 to 6”7 is there starting 5 but they play bigger than there size they play hard fast and tough we gotta come with it Sunday. Gonna be a dog fight of a game and they wanna put the ACC on notice that they are legit. We take care of the ball and spread the offense around and get some others involved in the offense if they make it hard on our shooters bcuz they are fast and very athletic can guard the perimeter well we have to go inside to Haarms to utilize his size advantage which he will have like we did against Davidson we will make it hard on them and get some of there starters in foul trouble. Gonna be a hellava game if we come to hoop bcuz that it what they do they hoop

Purdue's guards can't get into foul trouble in this one as guard depth will be a key. Play solid honest D and resist reaching and picking up cheap fouls early.

I didn't realize Va Tech was such a small team. Evan, Grady, Nojel and Wheeler have all been great on offensive boards and should be a big advantage. Purdue also needs to attack rim, get points in paint, and shoota lot of free throws against a small team like this. The 3 will always be there, but look to take advantage of a team without size inside first.

I'm excited to see the fight the team brings. The tougher team on the court Sunday will win. Who wants it more?
 
The biggest glaring hole the entire year will be - how can we produce consistent and reliable scoring behind Carsen? Everyone feeds off Carsen. We need to develop Haarms post game and isolation. We need to have better X's and O's to free up Ryan's 3's. We need to get new guys more play time. Otherwise, we are just a one trick pony that can be easily shut downed. The scouting report against Purdue is to limit Carsen Edwards' game. If they succeed, I haven't seen others who can really step up. We need to take more risks now to develop Carsen's supporting cast so we can win in March, even if that means to lose some games early in the season. It's a detriment to ride Carsen to death early in the season and with little left in March. The goal needs to be March, not Nov/Dec/Jan.
 
Purdue has to have one of the best starting backcourts in the country with Carsen and Nojel. One dominates on offense and the other dominates on defense.

If it's between frontcourt and backcourt, I'd rather we match up against a team with good backcourts over good frontcourt. We are pretty thin up front and foul trouble to Haarms or E-Bo will be very bad. I have more confidence with our backcourts. As such, while I think VaTech will be a VERY tough match, it could be worse but I think their best players are their guards, which hopefully should fare better.

That said, I do notice that VaTech is VERY good at forcing TOs, which can be a very bad thing for us.
 
One good to add - the Purdue fans. They really packed most of the lower level last night.
Oh yeah, I wasn't there so I couldn't tell, but on TV, it certainly sounded like a home game with people booing calls against Purdue, and also the chant of "Luce."
 
If it's between frontcourt and backcourt, I'd rather we match up against a team with good backcourts over good frontcourt. We are pretty thin up front and foul trouble to Haarms or E-Bo will be very bad. I have more confidence with our backcourts. As such, while I think VaTech will be a VERY tough match, it could be worse but I think their best players are their guards, which hopefully should fare better.

That said, I do notice that VaTech is VERY good at forcing TOs, which can be a very bad thing for us.
I think that this will be a tougher team to turnover than recent Purdue teams. A lot of their turnovers, thus far, have come from trying to do to much.
 
The good:
  1. REB. We took 43% of ORBs, when D1-avg is only 29%. Defensively, we took a whopping 87% of REBs. Individually, E-Bo has 5 ORBs (7 total), Nojel 4 ORBs (6 total), and Eifert 4 ORBs (5 total). Cline has 6 DRBs and Haarms 5. It's a collective effort. Now I know how it feels to be an MSU fan to just throw the ball up and still score b/c your team get 2nd and 3rd chances consistently.
  2. Carsen's scoring. 29 pts (5-10 from 2s, 6-11 from 3s, 1-1 FT). He is the only one who can finish reliably. Our offense goes as Carsen goes.
  3. Haarms' post-up. For a stretch, Haarms was unstoppable posting up his poor defender, who just doesn't have the height. I wonder why we stopped doing that entirely the rest of the game. Also, given Haarms' height, why aren't we lobbing him some alley-oop? He doesn't even need to jump much.
  4. Haarms' decision-making. I was surprised when I see Haarms have a 4:1 AST/TO ratio. One of those was a beautiful pass off double-team to a diving Nojel. He played 19 mins and had 10 pts, 5 REBs, 4 ASTs - if you double that it's 38 mins, 20 pts, 10 REBs, and 8 ASTs! Best of all, he didn't pick up one foul at all tonight.

The bad:
  1. Missing open 3s. While our 38.2% (13-of-34) is respectable, that number could easily be 50% if not for MULTIPLE open 3s that we missed. Eifert took 5 and 4 of them are wide open, but he made only 1. The same with everyone not named Carsen Edwards. We can have one possession where we got 3 ORBs and missed all three 3s. It's frustrating to come up empty. On the bright side, you just have to be drooling how dangerous this team can be if the guys can actually be calmed down and knock down those open 3s.
  2. Carsen's decision-making. Sometimes he seems to be forcing things, like the last possession of the first half (he was going 1-on-3 and fortunate that Nojel got the ORB putback). In addition, he has 4 TOs (only 3 ASTs).
  3. Setting picks. Maybe I am spoiled by the unmovable Haas' screens that we've had in the last 4 years, but it feels like this year our players aren't doing as good a job as setting screens. The first 3 from Cline was a set play where we had two players screening for him as he curled around the baseline, and still the defender was able to get reasonably close to him b/c those screens aren't solid enough.
  4. The court. Somehow it seems like the floor is very slippery, esp. in the first half, and multiple players slipped. And then the angle feels like it is from the ceiling.
  5. Officiating. I am not impressed at all. Seems like they are calling us too tight, and a lot of petty fouls that wouldn't be fouls in the B1G.

We were told that GE really could shoot in preseason ...said he was draining threes.

Still waiting.......
 
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I think that this will be a tougher team to turnover than recent Purdue teams. A lot of their turnovers, thus far, have come from trying to do to much.

In the first few games, we gave up a lot of dribble drives. And it is still somewhat of a concern. However, last night Painter changed our help rotation to where we dropped a second guard to clog the lane and stop the drive, then rotated up from the corner to cover the kick out.

It was a nice adjustment and worked pretty well. As with any adjustments, though, there is a weakness, and that is when a good passing team kicks out to the wing on the drive, then dumps it into the corner before the rotating guard can swing out to defend.

Davidson has a very good coach and a reasonably good passing team, and they made us pay a couple of times when they read the rotation correctly.

I will be curious to see if VaTech can pass as well as they drive and shoot because they are definitely quicker and may force us to rotate to stop any drives. OTOH, CMP may simply let Haarms/Wheeler protect the rim and focus on stopping the 3.

Should be an interesting game!
 
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