The Day After - Pros and Cons

[StateStreet123]

So this is difficult as Purdue was stronger and faster at virtually every position. But what are your thoughts? Again, please dont turn this into a bash thread...

Pros
- Defensive Line was in backfield ALOT yesterday
- Anthony Brown played great. Is he underrated? Frankie seems to get more publicity but Brown was everywhere
- Long passes - we threw some and scored 21 of our 38 pts on long bombs. Nice touch of first one and Hail Mary was in air almost 70 yards
- Running game was fairly stout again

Cons
- ACCURACY. appleby continues to throw poor passes with exception of a couple long ones. and missed on a long one to yancy on the sideline.
- Pass protection. for as big and strong as the OL is - and run blocks very well - AA doesnt seem to have much time to pass. Of course, I think he holds the ball 1-2 seconds too long every time and that is part of his accuracy issue (throws it late)
-Special teams - take away the nice fake field goal (ugh, needed against ISU) and they were awful. Griggs needs to make 'em and punter needs to kick it out of his shadow. Can I say 'at least they dont get blocked everytime like days of old?'
- Ability to complete an important 3rd down pass (or stop one on defense). This gets to the term 'finish', but i never feel we are good at this. Havent looked at stats to justify it though.


For those that know football better than me (admittedly like to watch but dont always know the real x's and o's) what do you think? GhostofJack and others- what say you?

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Pros--- some guys got a little game experience, Jones is a really good rb. Cons-- Knox is not good at blocking, someone missing assignment in defensive backfield

 

[BBG]

So this is difficult as Purdue was stronger and faster at virtually every position. But what are your thoughts? Again, please dont turn this into a bash thread...

Pros
- Defensive Line was in backfield ALOT yesterday
- Anthony Brown played great. Is he underrated? Frankie seems to get more publicity but Brown was everywhere
- Long passes - we threw some and scored 21 of our 38 pts on long bombs. Nice touch of first one and Hail Mary was in air almost 70 yards
- Running game was fairly stout again

Cons
- ACCURACY. appleby continues to throw poor passes with exception of a couple long ones. and missed on a long one to yancy on the sideline.
- Pass protection. for as big and strong as the OL is - and run blocks very well - AA doesnt seem to have much time to pass. Of course, I think he holds the ball 1-2 seconds too long every time and that is part of his accuracy issue (throws it late)
-Special teams - take away the nice fake field goal (ugh, needed against ISU) and they were awful. Griggs needs to make 'em and punter needs to kick it out of his shadow. Can I say 'at least they dont get blocked everytime like days of old?'
- Ability to complete an important 3rd down pass (or stop one on defense). This gets to the term 'finish', but i never feel we are good at this. Havent looked at stats to justify it though.


For those that know football better than me (admittedly like to watch but dont always know the real x's and o's) what do you think? GhostofJack and others- what say you?

I like your points and agree. Also I think AA's accuracy is a direct result of the pass protection. If he has time and FEELS like he has time, he seems to be rather accurate. Case in point that long pass hail-mary.. you don't make that pass unless you have accuracy. Consistency might be more of AA"s issue rather than accuracy. But that too could come from the OL not giving him the time to throw .. or maybe it's as simple as he doesn't trust the OL

Also a lot of the 3rd down issues come down to play calling IMO ..

Just my two cents.

 

[OhioBoiler3]

Pros
-Got the Win
-AA with no turnovers
-Pretty solid effort on defense outside of the one blown coverage
-Mr. Jones had a great day out of the backfield.
- Patterson, played the whole game at LT where he hadn't had a ton of work coming in and played well, Stud going forward IMO.
-AB playing like a senior play maker.
-3 long TD plays, biggest to me was taking a shot at the half instead of running out the clock.

CONS
-GRIGGS....hasn't looked good at all, we need points out of him to be successful.
-Knox putting the ball on the ground. I do think he comes out pissed off next week and plays to prove a point that he can be the guy.
-TE, just a overall bad group almost can't play them.
-We do a poor job of converting on mistakes by the other team.

Boiler UP.

 

[boiler_pride]

I know this was against a largely overmatched opponent but it was good to see us take care of business. Two years ago, we had to sweat one out just to get a win. And this ISU team is better, IMO.

I was really happy to see Appleby have a good first half. After the disaster in the 4th quarter last week, I'm glad he started out strong. The second half was a bit puzzling. It seemed our guys weren't on the same page quite a bit. Not sure what was going on there, but we have to have better 2nd halves.

The defense showed up again. Very encouraging to see two weeks in a row (other than Marshall's final drive). #54 was in the backfield a lot. Brown and company did a great job limiting ISU's passing attack. I feel like we have a pretty physical secondary this year. We'll see how they match up with B1G talent but the games they had so far look good.

I think the coaching was OK. I think our coaches sometimes have good schemes and plays -- like the fake punt, the 50-yard TD pass, etc. But at times they seem to be indecisive and waste downs. When Appleby was hurting, it was a big mistake to call (I think) back to back zone reads. The defense knew Appleby wouldn't keep the ball -- pass or run, and they stuffed DJ (who is not a big guy to begin with) very easily. We left points on the field there.

More than playcalling or anything else, my biggest beef with the Hazell regime so far is leaving too many points off the board by simple mistakes. We stall a lot between 30 and 20. End of half management is almost always terrible. In that sense, the hail mary was a pleasant surprise.

I see encouraging signs from this team. It's too bad we're stuck with a very difficult schedule in the year when we need 6 wins. We just need to grow up very fast in the next 4 weeks. If we can steal two of the next four, I think we can have a decent season.

 

[BoilermakerD]

So this is difficult as Purdue was stronger and faster at virtually every position. But what are your thoughts? Again, please dont turn this into a bash thread...

Pros
- Defensive Line was in backfield ALOT yesterday
- Anthony Brown played great. Is he underrated? Frankie seems to get more publicity but Brown was everywhere
- Long passes - we threw some and scored 21 of our 38 pts on long bombs. Nice touch of first one and Hail Mary was in air almost 70 yards
- Running game was fairly stout again

Cons
- ACCURACY. appleby continues to throw poor passes with exception of a couple long ones. and missed on a long one to yancy on the sideline.
- Pass protection. for as big and strong as the OL is - and run blocks very well - AA doesnt seem to have much time to pass. Of course, I think he holds the ball 1-2 seconds too long every time and that is part of his accuracy issue (throws it late)
-Special teams - take away the nice fake field goal (ugh, needed against ISU) and they were awful. Griggs needs to make 'em and punter needs to kick it out of his shadow. Can I say 'at least they dont get blocked everytime like days of old?'
- Ability to complete an important 3rd down pass (or stop one on defense). This gets to the term 'finish', but i never feel we are good at this. Havent looked at stats to justify it though.


For those that know football better than me (admittedly like to watch but dont always know the real x's and o's) what do you think? GhostofJack and others- what say you?

So... Don't turn it into a bash thread, yet your top two negatives are critiques, at least in part, of a QB who was 20 of 34 for 289 yards and 4 TDs.

Your claims about appleby would have some credibility, except that nowhere in your negatives was the spacing of the offense, the motions that lead to nothing and leave an extra defender where we actually send the ball, and the fact that all of the bunching, misdirection and offensive players in the middle of the field on many plays actually hurts whoever our QB is because play in, play out, defenses don't have to respect the back corner area of the D.

Also, what's with the plays that seek to take advantage of space, but running them to the boundary NOT THE FIELD??

 

[StateStreet123]

So... Don't turn it into a bash thread, yet your top two negatives are critiques, at least in part, of a QB who was 20 of 34 for 289 yards and 4 TDs.

Your claims about appleby would have some credibility, except that nowhere in your negatives was the spacing of the offense, the motions that lead to nothing and leave an extra defender where we actually send the ball, and the fact that all of the bunching, misdirection and offensive players in the middle of the field on many plays actually hurts whoever our QB is because play in, play out, defenses don't have to respect the back corner area of the D.

Also, what's with the plays that seek to take advantage of space, but running them to the boundary NOT THE FIELD??

BoilerD - I hear you. Admittedly I dont know the x's and o's. And i like BBG's point too that 3rd down issues may be due to play calling. I do think AA missed and open Yancey deep down the sideline. Not sure there was anything more to that than simply a bad throw. I understand the CON you list isnt the QB as much as it is the offensive system the Weird Beard has implemented. And recent history has shown no QB has been successful in it since he arrived....

Lets beat Va Tech next week!

 

[BoilermakerD]

BoilerD - I hear you. Admittedly I dont know the x's and o's. And i like BBG's point too that 3rd down issues may be due to play calling. I do think AA missed and open Yancey deep down the sideline. Not sure there was anything more to that than simply a bad throw. I understand the CON you list isnt the QB as much as it is the offensive system the Weird Beard has implemented. And recent history has shown no QB has been successful in it since he arrived....

Lets beat Va Tech next week!

I don't think Appleby is great. What I like about him is the combination of the following

A). He's functional despite the fact that
B). Teams have film on him. It's not like AA just came in and nobody has seen him. He's functional even though teams know what he's about
C) He isn't tearing his ACL or getting hurt all the time

When was the last time we had that? Joey Elliott? And by the way, I'd love to have seen any of our last 6 teams (counting this one) with the 09 version of Joey

AA has his issues, but I think he CAN be pretty good going forward. Virginia Tech will let us know a lot. We are either going to shock everyone and have a chance to win or it's going to be UGLY. No in between

 

[StateStreet123]

I don't think Appleby is great. What I like about him is the combination of the following

A). He's functional despite the fact that
B). Teams have film on him. It's not like AA just came in and nobody has seen him. He's functional even though teams know what he's about
C) He isn't tearing his ACL or getting hurt all the time

When was the last time we had that? Joey Elliott? And by the way, I'd love to have seen any of our last 6 teams (counting this one) with the 09 version of Joey

AA has his issues, but I think he CAN be pretty good going forward. Virginia Tech will let us know a lot. We are either going to shock everyone and have a chance to win or it's going to be UGLY. No in between

Your C) made me laugh. Until I realized all too true. Agree on all accounts. Hey, I'm rooting for AA as much (maybe more!) than anyone. I won't make the Va Tech game so will have to DVR it. But will be in RA stadium to support our boilers against Bowling Green. Boiler Up!

 

[tigerchump]

I don't think Appleby is great. What I like about him is the combination of the following

A). He's functional despite the fact that
B). Teams have film on him. It's not like AA just came in and nobody has seen him. He's functional even though teams know what he's about
C) He isn't tearing his ACL or getting hurt all the time

When was the last time we had that? Joey Elliott? And by the way, I'd love to have seen any of our last 6 teams (counting this one) with the 09 version of Joey

AA has his issues, but I think he CAN be pretty good going forward. Virginia Tech will let us know a lot. We are either going to shock everyone and have a chance to win or it's going to be UGLY. No in between

AA is not doing too bad.He had about three drops yesterday,and how often do you see a Hail Mary completed for a score?I loved the call.

 

[BoilermakerD]

I loved that call too. Life is decisions. If shoop decides to just line up and play straight up 3 receiver passing without all the motion we might be ok. I don't think he will do that, but you never know

 

[Walt34]

Agree with the criticisms concerning AA and, especially, our OC (Shoop).

Griggs is awful. Maybe it's time for a campus tryout. LOL

Our best offensive player could very well be true freshman Markell Jones. I do think he's at least our best RB. Knox may have an "action figure physique" and be incredibly strong for his size, but he's just too small to push the pile and, apparently, his hands are too small to adequately hold on to the ball....or he's just being careless. IMHO, Jones has better vision and instincts....plus he's bigger and better for short yardage situations.

 

[SqueakyClean]

I notice that we run motion with the wide receiver coming over at least 3 or 4 times per drive. Do we actually ever use the jet sweep and give it to that receiver in motion? I don't think I've seen it yet with about 20 attempts.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Agree with the criticisms concerning AA and, especially, our OC (Shoop).

Griggs is awful. Maybe it's time for a campus tryout. LOL

Our best offensive player could very well be true freshman Markell Jones. I do think he's at least our best RB. Knox may have an "action figure physique" and be incredibly strong for his size, but he's just too small to push the pile and, apparently, his hands are too small to adequately hold on to the ball....or he's just being careless. IMHO, Jones has better vision and instincts....plus he's bigger and better for short yardage situations.

hey Walt, I agree w/ you in regards to Jones. How about this idea, using Knox like a Darren Sproles out in space and having Jones and Green as the 1 and 2 RB's. Amazing how OSU uses it's talent like the former QB as a wideout.

 

[Walt34]

hey Walt, I agree w/ you in regards to Jones. How about this idea, using Knox like a Darren Sproles out in space and having Jones and Green as the 1 and 2 RB's. Amazing how OSU uses it's talent like the former QB as a wideout.

Sounds good to me.

 

[BoilermakerD]

I notice that we run motion with the wide receiver coming over at least 3 or 4 times per drive. Do we actually ever use the jet sweep and give it to that receiver in motion? I don't think I've seen it yet with about 20 attempts.

No. The motion receiver is three feet outside the tackle running sideways which makes it easier for the secondary to cheat up and to the middle. They also don't motion with us. So the defense will end up moving a safety up to the motion side and we will end up running a play to the vacated side and losing a blocker. Additionally, we motion away from the boundary , then try to gain space with the sideline as an enemy. If we are going to motion and not give to the motion man, we need to let him finish his motion, get set and be a vertical threat. Any chess player rated over 1000 can see this. Shoop apparently cannot

 

[StateStreet123]

No. The motion receiver is three feet outside the tackle running sideways which makes it easier for the secondary to cheat up and to the middle. They also don't motion with us. So the defense will end up moving a safety up to the motion side and we will end up running a play to the vacated side and losing a blocker. Additionally, we motion away from the boundary , then try to gain space with the sideline as an enemy. If we are going to motion and not give to the motion man, we need to let him finish his motion, get set and be a vertical threat. Any chess player rated over 1000 can see this. Shoop apparently cannot

 

[StateStreet123]

BoilerD - nice post and makes sense. Question for you: I see lots of other teams put the WR in motion in similar fashion (but maybe not the same - I dont notice). Sometimes he gets a handoff for the jet sweep, but usually not. So question is...have you noticed if any other teams run this play the SAME way we do?

more i think about it, when I have seen it run the ball it typically snapped before the WR clears the QB so the threat of the jet sweep handoff exists. Maybe the threat in Weird Beard's scheme is to hit a quick pass the to jet sweeper (almost a quick 10 yard hard overhand pass/lateral). But never seen that done....would that work if nobody follows the motion man and secondary cheats into the box?

 

[BoilermakerD]

BoilerD - nice post and makes sense. Question for you: I see lots of other teams put the WR in motion in similar fashion (but maybe not the same - I dont notice). Sometimes he gets a handoff for the jet sweep, but usually not. So question is...have you noticed if any other teams run this play the SAME way we do?

more i think about it, when I have seen it run the ball it typically snapped before the WR clears the QB so the threat of the jet sweep handoff exists. Maybe the threat in Weird Beard's scheme is to hit a quick pass the to jet sweeper (almost a quick 10 yard hard overhand pass/lateral). But never seen that done....would that work if nobody follows the motion man and secondary cheats into the box?

I don't think it fits the personnel. The jet sweep stuff came to prominence when Arkansas had Felix Jones and Darren McFadden, with McFadden taking the snap. I think if our QB was Tony Rice or Jamel Holloway, then this whole method might work. Lining two receivers up behind the tackles might work if our QB was Vince Young.

But we have a guy that Joe Tiller could at the very LEAST turn into Curtis Painter. He has those physical tools, probably better. The problem I have even when the misdirection runs are successful is that you have a guy who can actually throw, and you're letting him take helmets to his ankles and elbows unnecessarily.

I have seen enough to fully believe this. There are coaches out there who are not geniuses or innovators, who could go with minimal motion, no WRs in weird alignments and no read/option, and run a competent offense out of 3 WR spread football.