The Core Problem

[New Pal Boiler]

Painter recruited 4 guards in the 2012 and 2013 classes, that should have made up a solid upperclassman backcourt.

2 of them are gone, another one is riding the pine, and the 4th one scored 8 points.

And our sophomore PG was a last minute offer with no other high major offers, though he is a scrappy, high character guy.

This was a flaw all season long, and after the Butler game I suspected it would be a fatal one, but just not this soon.

We need to sign a playmaking guard or wing this spring so we don't waste next season also.

 

[typeviic]

Painter recruited 4 guards in the 2012 and 2013 classes, that should have made up a solid upperclassman backcourt.

2 of them are gone, another one is riding the pine, and the 4th one scored 8 points.

And our sophomore PG was a last minute offer with no other high major offers, though he is a scrappy, high character guy.

This was a flaw all season long, and after the Butler game I suspected it would be a fatal one, but just not this soon.

We need to sign a playmaking guard or wing this spring so we don't waste next season also.

"We need to sign a playmaking guard or wing this spring so we don't waste next season also"

Truer words never have been spoken

 

[blockm2]

PG probably the most important position on the floor, especially in the tourney.

 

[jadeezra]

The real problem is painter cannot put a full roster together. I agree pg is the most important position. If we had a top tier pg this team would have been really really good

 

[jadeezra]

Painter recruited 4 guards in the 2012 and 2013 classes, that should have made up a solid upperclassman backcourt.

2 of them are gone, another one is riding the pine, and the 4th one scored 8 points.

And our sophomore PG was a last minute offer with no other high major offers, though he is a scrappy, high character guy.

This was a flaw all season long, and after the Butler game I suspected it would be a fatal one, but just not this soon.

We need to sign a playmaking guard or wing this spring so we don't waste next season also.

Pretty sure that's where Carson Edwards comes into play next year. From all accounts he's the real deal. Don't forget we got basil coming back as a wing and from what we've heard he's much much improved.


Call me crazy but I think next years team will be painters most balanced roster. We will see but I think we're all getting tired of hearing wait till next year

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

I thought Bane looked good when I saw him play, but what do I know

 

[banshee90]

The core problem fainter!

 

[cprh9u]

Pretty sure that's where Carson Edwards comes into play next year. From all accounts he's the real deal. Don't forget we got basil coming back as a wing and from what we've heard he's much much improved.


Call me crazy but I think next years team will be painters most balanced roster. We will see but I think we're all getting tired of hearing wait till next year

Yes we're all tired of that. We lose our 2 best defenders BY A MILE, including our best overall player in AJH. Hard to see us improving, but time will tell.

 

[BoilerStutz]

A few years ago, we had no frontline players. This year, we had depth on the frontline and no guards.

The core issue is consistent recruiting. Painter has not been able to keep strong Indiana high school players in the state.

 

[honey_badger]

Painter recruited 4 guards in the 2012 and 2013 classes, that should have made up a solid upperclassman backcourt.

2 of them are gone, another one is riding the pine, and the 4th one scored 8 points.

And our sophomore PG was a last minute offer with no other high major offers, though he is a scrappy, high character guy.

This was a flaw all season long, and after the Butler game I suspected it would be a fatal one, but just not this soon.

We need to sign a playmaking guard or wing this spring so we don't waste next season also.

wing

 

[spradecki]

The core problem never changes. Has been the same for years and probably won't change next year. The players are way more than adequate. They continue to pass up good shots early in the shot clock to take a hurried or contested one after passing it around the perimeter for 25 seconds.
The motion offense needs tweeked

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

I thought the offense got better late in the season, players were taking open shots earlier, instead of passing up shots that were as good or better than what happened later. Look for it to improve this coming year. Purdue has guys who can shoot, more experienced, it will be better.

 

[spradecki]

I hope so but have been hoping for a long time. 2 or 3 players come to mind especially that really bogged down the offense because they were not a threat

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

The core PG problem is that the book is out on Painter and ball handling PGs. None of them want to play for his offense. They recruit themselves away. No one wants to run the weave and pass around the key. There were great 5th year guys last year. We just ended up with Hill. All of the problems always point back to Painter. Gotta change brother.

 

[spradecki]

Change style a little, not coaches

Not all players are a fit at purdue can you imagine troy williams playing any minutes at purdue

 

[pharoutengineer]

Carson Edwards looks to be a legit player. Should be very interesting to see how he fares. He could make a world of difference if he pans out and buys in.

 

[tjreese]

The core PG problem is that the book is out on Painter and ball handling PGs. None of them want to play for his offense. They recruit themselves away. No one wants to run the weave and pass around the key. There were great 5th year guys last year. We just ended up with Hill. All of the problems always point back to Painter. Gotta change brother.

I'm not a fan of the weave per se. MSU runs it and MSU gets guards...

 

[mathboy]

I thought the offense got better late in the season, players were taking open shots earlier, instead of passing up shots that were as good or better than what happened later. Look for it to improve this coming year. Purdue has guys who can shoot, more experienced, it will be better.

We did get better as the year went along. We were starting 1 soph and 1 freshman. Sometimes during the year we started 2 sophs and a freshman. Our first two guys off the bench were sophs, and the third guy was often a freshman. That indicates a fairly young team. It took a little while for the youngsters to learn to play together.

At the end of the year, we were doing pretty well, but Swanigan was not well integrated into the flow of the game. We need better interior passing to make him more effective. We also need for our guards to be more aggressive when pressed, and quicker of foot when driving. Our outside shooting was good enough to win most game IMHO.

The difference between going home early and a sweet sixteen berth is extraordinarily thin. We hold the lead against A-LR, and then play Iowa State. Maybe..., maybe, we pose a better matchup problem to ISU than A-LR did. Who knows? Given the large number of seed-upsets this year, the tournament is turning into a random number generator with little respect for teams that looked good in the regular season.

My only hope is that North Carolina does not win the whole thing. You know that the kids playing right now benefitted from the academic fraud, and may still be benefitting from some form of the same continuing forward at that "prestigious academic institution". IMHO, UNC should have been barred from the tourney.

 

[honey_badger]

I'm not a fan of the weave per se. MSU runs it and MSU gets guards...

they haven't run it as much as they used to . with Valentine, they would spread, then let him get a back-pick, then "roll" into the center lane and find options either dish low, take intermediate shot, or fire a laser to corner 3 player. not a weave, usually go to weave when Valentine is out for a breather. I think Keady should have done a weave back in the day, instead of the comb-over.

 

[lbodel]

The real problem is painter cannot put a full roster together. I agree pg is the most important position. If we had a top tier pg this team would have been really really good

There are very few teams that have a "complete roster" - so what you're complaining bout can be said about a lot of teams.

While we could sure use some stability handling the ball, I don't think a motion offense needs a Kris Dunn to succeed.

That being said, while it's great to have a team of relatively balanced scoring, we did not have a "go to" guy. I've said it before, but our seniors were not "step up" when it mattered guys on offense. They are tremendously unselfish guys, but they aren't really step up guys. And I think in addition to that, a guy like Davis is NOT a skilled ball handler, so it's even harder for them to step up in some of the areas we struggled.

The good news going forward for the offensive minded - PJ is the only returning guard that's not a "shooter" (even though he's proven to be somewhat serviceable and will only get better). Weatherford is there - not sure how much time he'll get given Mathias/Cline both stepping up as the season went on. In addition, with Smotherman - it gives you another guy that's more of a create a shot kinda guy.

Obviously with AJ and Davis departing, it's a big defensive loss. I expect Swanigan to make big strides defensively and coupled with Haas continuing to improve, I think our interior defense can be as good (I've said before - Hammons had to cover a lot of Swanigan's mistakes). The perimeter defense - we've seen a guy like PJ make big strides, but it's hard to pick out a lock down defender from the remaining guys.

 

[bonefish1]

I think the problem is the Keady philosophy and his coaching tree.
Keady very rarely had great PGs. And when I say 'great', I mean good enough to get to the NBA or make thing happen in the tourney.
I think Keady and Painter are wiling to trade a great offensive point guard for someone who is a better defender and more willing to simply feed the post than to create their own shot.
This hurts his ability to recruit high level pgs.
Gotta lose the D first mentality. It hasn't worked.

 

[LousiBFree]

I think the problem is the Keady philosophy and his coaching tree. Keady very rarely had great PGs. And when I say 'great', I mean good enough to get to the NBA or make thing happen in the tourney. I think Keady and Painter are wiling to trade a great offensive point guard for someone who is a better defender and more willing to simply feed the post than to create their own shot. This hurts his ability to recruit high level pgs. Gotta lose the D first mentality. It hasn't worked.

Very well said. The current PG philosophy has to at least be tweaked if not abandoned altogether. We are taking a 1990's approach to a model year 2016 game. Purdue needs a PG who is a game manager/shot creator more than a post feeder/solid defender.

 

[djy2j]

I feel one of Painter's biggest mistakes is not adapting the offense to better fit the players he has. Throwing the ball down low is not an adaptation. It's still the same motion offense that gets bogged down when players stop moving which tends to happen a lot. Wish he would bring in an offensive coordinator in to change up the offense. I'm sure it'll be impossible citing budget reasons.

Also, if "defense lives here" then why don't we press or steal or deflect the ball?

 

[pb1941]

I feel one of Painter's biggest mistakes is not adapting the offense to better fit the players he has. Throwing the ball down low is not an adaptation. It's still the same motion offense that gets bogged down when players stop moving which tends to happen a lot. Wish he would bring in an offensive coordinator in to change up the offense. I'm sure it'll be impossible citing budget reasons.

Also, if "defense lives here" then why don't we press or steal or deflect the ball?

We haven`t had a good guard that could steal the ball since Kramer.Watching the mid-majors play against big ten schools you can see they go for quick guards and the six seven and six eight forward-centers.Screw the motion offense it`s yesterday.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Yes we're all tired of that. We lose our 2 best defenders BY A MILE, including our best overall player in AJH. Hard to see us improving, but time will tell.

The potential for team improvement lies in the collective improvement of the other players. Basil may be key. We know he can defend, rebound, and slash. Can he shoot the three? If yes this team improves assuming normal growth of others based on age and experience. If Carsen can take the starting 1 spot then they will definitely be better. Can Swanigan become more agile defensively and more reliable as a ball handler? If yes the team moves toward elite status.

 

[mathboy]

We haven`t had a good guard that could steal the ball since Kramer.Watching the mid-majors play against big ten schools you can see they go for quick guards and the six seven and six eight forward-centers.Screw the motion offense it`s yesterday.

Interesting perspective. You know they showed the Purdue-Texas A&M game on the BIG channel just before the NCAAT. I watch Kramer, Etwaan and JJ. I noted a several things. First, Etwaan was not as good a shot as I recalled, and he struggled to make his own shot in that game. Second, JJ got shoved around and pushed out of the paint regularly. I have gotten used to seeing our centers as being the biggest guys on the court.

Third, and this applies to your comment about defense, Kramer would have fouled out after 15 minutes if today's rules were applied to his game back then. He played withijn the rules as they used to be, but I was winching each time he put his hands on the opposing guard. I don't know that we will ever see a defense like he did, given the rules changes. RayDay may be as good as it gets.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Interesting perspective. You know they showed the Purdue-Texas A&M game on the BIG channel just before the NCAAT. I watch Kramer, Etwaan and JJ. I noted a several things. First, Etwaan was not as good a shot as I recalled, and he struggled to make his own shot in that game. Second, JJ got shoved around and pushed out of the paint regularly. I have gotten used to seeing our centers as being the biggest guys on the court.

Third, and this applies to your comment about defense, Kramer would have fouled out after 15 minutes if today's rules were applied to his game back then. He played withijn the rules as they used to be, but I was winching each time he put his hands on the opposing guard. I don't know that we will ever see a defense like he did, given the rules changes. RayDay may be as good as it gets.

In-game adjustments have been a popular topic this year. Perhaps recruiting and game-plan adjustments may be a major topic for the future.

 

[lbodel]

Very well said. The current PG philosophy has to at least be tweaked if not abandoned altogether. We are taking a 1990's approach to a model year 2016 game. Purdue needs a PG who is a game manager/shot creator more than a post feeder/solid defender.

I think one problem with the team that we had was you had our PG, who wasn't a big offensive thread (between either of them) and then you had Davis, who was a guy who played spectacular defense, but sporadic offense. So it put a lot of pressure on the other 3 guys to get offense. Now, our PGs and Davis played some pretty awesome defense, which cannot be discounted. But next year, you don't really see (at least right now) 2 non-offensive oriented guys out there in our backcourt playing at one time, which I think will help.

Now, I'd also point out...people complaining about our offense and saying we put too much focus on defense...while it's no perfect, it also wasn't bad.

Purdue's conference only stats:

-#4 in the Big Ten in points per game
-#7 in the Big Ten in opponents points per game

-#3 in field goal percentage
-#6 in field goal percentage defense

-#3 in 3 point field goal percentage
-#6 in 3 point field goal percentage defense

And it's not like Hammons was scoring 25 ppg, he averaged 15.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

Your stats just mean we're not any good at what we're focusing on (defense). Might as well adopt offense.

 

[lbodel]

In-game adjustments have been a popular topic this year. Perhaps recruiting and game-plan adjustments may be a major topic for the future.

I think there's always a perception vs. reality problem on forums. It's like the "we never can in-bound the ball!" notion or "Kendall Stephens can't pass"...

When it comes to in-game adjustments, I'm not sure if we didn't see these (just because adjustments are made doesn't mean they're executed well or can solve the problem).

Obviously the notion is that Purdue can't hold leads. Well, we also tended to really come into games ready to play and build a lead in almost every one of our games. It's no secret that college basketball is a game full of runs. There are times that Purdue did get too relaxed and I think their shot selection was poor, which allowed some runs. It's also no secret that teams "turn it up" when they are down late. Sometimes, it results in a win, sometimes it doesn't. We obviously came back from being down by a significant margin in the second half against MSU in the BTT championship. Obviously people still count the games we still won as "part of a problem" when listing out comebacks. We also had a pretty furious comeback against IU.

So do I think there are aspects of this that can improve? Absolutely. I think our shot selection got a little sloppy at times, but you also saw the team handle it like a champ vs. Michigan in the BTT. I'd also say, that with regards to our seniors, their shot selection wasn't always the greatest (and love him, but I think Davis set a career record for missed lay-ups).

I also think our shot selection improved in the year. We finished the conference #3 in three point FG Percentage. However, we finished 8th in made 3s. So we weren't taking a lot - but we were picking and choosing them at a very efficient rate. The next step is obviously to be #3 in % AND makes, but I think this shows that the players were coached well and took good shots for the most part in conference play.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I think there's always a perception vs. reality problem on forums. It's like the "we never can in-bound the ball!" notion or "Kendall Stephens can't pass"...

When it comes to in-game adjustments, I'm not sure if we didn't see these (just because adjustments are made doesn't mean they're executed well or can solve the problem).

Obviously the notion is that Purdue can't hold leads. Well, we also tended to really come into games ready to play and build a lead in almost every one of our games. It's no secret that college basketball is a game full of runs. There are times that Purdue did get too relaxed and I think their shot selection was poor, which allowed some runs. It's also no secret that teams "turn it up" when they are down late. Sometimes, it results in a win, sometimes it doesn't. We obviously came back from being down by a significant margin in the second half against MSU in the BTT championship. Obviously people still count the games we still won as "part of a problem" when listing out comebacks. We also had a pretty furious comeback against IU.

So do I think there are aspects of this that can improve? Absolutely. I think our shot selection got a little sloppy at times, but you also saw the team handle it like a champ vs. Michigan in the BTT. I'd also say, that with regards to our seniors, their shot selection wasn't always the greatest (and love him, but I think Davis set a career record for missed lay-ups).

I also think our shot selection improved in the year. We finished the conference #3 in three point FG Percentage. However, we finished 8th in made 3s. So we weren't taking a lot - but we were picking and choosing them at a very efficient rate. The next step is obviously to be #3 in % AND makes, but I think this shows that the players were coached well and took good shots for the most part in conference play.

Excellent assessment and very well-written. Kudos.

 

[asmith640]

I don't post a lot, mainly read comments and articles. I'm upset as any about Purdue's recent (this year and previous years) tournament outcomes (BTT and NCAA); however, I'm not the one playing or coaching in the games. My life goes on, this is nothing that will have any personal effect on my life. None of ours. We don't get the rings.

Additionally, we make up the smallest fraction of Purdue fans, when compiling all the data of alum and their families, it's a large number, but then think of the people who care about Purdue sports, it's dramatically reduced, and then those who take the time to read a forum about it, another significant reduction. All the boards are just a small fraction.

Personally, I don't think Purdue is a school of athletic champions. It's a school that athletes who are gifted and want a top-tier education go. I don't think a National Title in Men's Football or Men's Basketball will ever come to Purdue. There is nothing to attract those types of athletes to Purdue.

In terms of "core" problems, in my opinion, there is no 1-specific problem. I think a list for Top 5 issues and Top 10 issues can be created with each one of them having very similar effects.

Example: You can say this year's team had depth, and probably our go-to-guy was Hammons.........but in crucial situation, not Hammons or the team wanted to get him the ball. There wasn't a 2nd guy stepping up and saying give it to me, I want to score. Others just seemed lost, not knowing how to execute.

Example: Swagger. In wins, the charisma was there. In losses, the attitude throughout the whole game looked like many American office workers (just working hard enough not to get fired).

Regardless, blame this or blame that........we don't get the rings. Life goes on. Support or don't Support the program, it's a simple choice. And if you want to see how much the average cost for an athletics video, watch this video and then think how Purdue is 1 of a handful of schools that self-fund the athletics and how much donors matter.

 

[B-Westy]

A few years ago, we had no frontline players. This year, we had depth on the frontline and no guards.

The core issue is consistent recruiting. Painter has not been able to keep strong Indiana high school players in the state.

Well good thing we got the 1st & 2nd best players in the state of Indiana last year.

 

[tjreese]

I don't post a lot, mainly read comments and articles. I'm upset as any about Purdue's recent (this year and previous years) tournament outcomes (BTT and NCAA); however, I'm not the one playing or coaching in the games. My life goes on, this is nothing that will have any personal effect on my life. None of ours. We don't get the rings.

Additionally, we make up the smallest fraction of Purdue fans, when compiling all the data of alum and their families, it's a large number, but then think of the people who care about Purdue sports, it's dramatically reduced, and then those who take the time to read a forum about it, another significant reduction. All the boards are just a small fraction.

Personally, I don't think Purdue is a school of athletic champions. It's a school that athletes who are gifted and want a top-tier education go. I don't think a National Title in Men's Football or Men's Basketball will ever come to Purdue. There is nothing to attract those types of athletes to Purdue.

In terms of "core" problems, in my opinion, there is no 1-specific problem. I think a list for Top 5 issues and Top 10 issues can be created with each one of them having very similar effects.

Example: You can say this year's team had depth, and probably our go-to-guy was Hammons.........but in crucial situation, not Hammons or the team wanted to get him the ball. There wasn't a 2nd guy stepping up and saying give it to me, I want to score. Others just seemed lost, not knowing how to execute.

Example: Swagger. In wins, the charisma was there. In losses, the attitude throughout the whole game looked like many American office workers (just working hard enough not to get fired).

Regardless, blame this or blame that........we don't get the rings. Life goes on. Support or don't Support the program, it's a simple choice. And if you want to see how much the average cost for an athletics video, watch this video and then think how Purdue is 1 of a handful of schools that self-fund the athletics and how much donors matter.

View embedded media

reminds me of murray sperber...

 

[tjreese]

I don't post a lot, mainly read comments and articles. I'm upset as any about Purdue's recent (this year and previous years) tournament outcomes (BTT and NCAA); however, I'm not the one playing or coaching in the games. My life goes on, this is nothing that will have any personal effect on my life. None of ours. We don't get the rings.

Additionally, we make up the smallest fraction of Purdue fans, when compiling all the data of alum and their families, it's a large number, but then think of the people who care about Purdue sports, it's dramatically reduced, and then those who take the time to read a forum about it, another significant reduction. All the boards are just a small fraction.

Personally, I don't think Purdue is a school of athletic champions. It's a school that athletes who are gifted and want a top-tier education go. I don't think a National Title in Men's Football or Men's Basketball will ever come to Purdue. There is nothing to attract those types of athletes to Purdue.

In terms of "core" problems, in my opinion, there is no 1-specific problem. I think a list for Top 5 issues and Top 10 issues can be created with each one of them having very similar effects.

Example: You can say this year's team had depth, and probably our go-to-guy was Hammons.........but in crucial situation, not Hammons or the team wanted to get him the ball. There wasn't a 2nd guy stepping up and saying give it to me, I want to score. Others just seemed lost, not knowing how to execute.

Example: Swagger. In wins, the charisma was there. In losses, the attitude throughout the whole game looked like many American office workers (just working hard enough not to get fired).

Regardless, blame this or blame that........we don't get the rings. Life goes on. Support or don't Support the program, it's a simple choice. And if you want to see how much the average cost for an athletics video, watch this video and then think how Purdue is 1 of a handful of schools that self-fund the athletics and how much donors matter.

View embedded media

not sure I could find agreement on other things in upworthy, but there is no question that Purdue and Northwestern being self funded doesn't help the progress of athletics.