Student Debt Cancellation

Bethboilerfan

Senior
Sep 14, 2012
3,814
4,015
113
This is true. Two married individuals with degrees should be above middle class, IMO.

Using $67,521 as the base, the Pew definition of middle income would include households earning between $45,239 and $135,042.

Most people who call themselves middle class often don’t realize how good they have it (or understand where the median income level is for America)
Very interesting as $67,521 where I live would definitely not be middle class especially as “household income”. Is $136,000 considered “upper class”? Upper middle class? That sum ($136,000) would certainly not define “upper class” in my community. With that sum as the income for “middle class” I totally agree with you that two college graduates with Purdue degrees should be above middle class. I read a couple of weeks ago in some investor literature that upper class is defined as yearly income above $373,000 but I don’t remember the quoted source.
 

BNIBoiler

All-American
Jun 10, 2018
4,649
1,875
113
This is true. Two married individuals with degrees should be above middle class, IMO.

Using $67,521 as the base, the Pew definition of middle income would include households earning between $45,239 and $135,042.

Most people who call themselves middle class often don’t realize how good they have it (or understand where the median income level is for America)
That definition seems to be about right. Yeah, like I said most Americans fit in that range and pay the bulk of taxes. Unlike the rich, we don’t make enough to pay for college outright. Our kids don’t qualify for Pell Grants and other college grant like poor families do. Then the kids have take out student loans with high interest rates.
 

SKYDOG

All-American
May 29, 2001
10,538
6,675
113
Very interesting as $67,521 where I live would definitely not be middle class especially as “household income”. Is $136,000 considered “upper class”? Upper middle class? That sum ($136,000) would certainly not define “upper class” in my community. With that sum as the income for “middle class” I totally agree with you that two college graduates with Purdue degrees should be above middle class. I read a couple of weeks ago in some investor literature that upper class is defined as yearly income above $373,000 but I don’t remember the quoted source.
Curious to see where you live. All people would seem to have a different criteria based on the cost of living in ones area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Indy_Rider

TheGunner

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 30, 2001
12,102
11,656
113
Very interesting as $67,521 where I live would definitely not be middle class especially as “household income”. Is $136,000 considered “upper class”? Upper middle class? That sum ($136,000) would certainly not define “upper class” in my community. With that sum as the income for “middle class” I totally agree with you that two college graduates with Purdue degrees should be above middle class. I read a couple of weeks ago in some investor literature that upper class is defined as yearly income above $373,000 but I don’t remember the quoted source.
Yes, I am sure the limits listed above is for the average US city and doesn’t account for the cost of living difference for places like LA, Chicago, NY and SF
 

charlespig

All-American
Gold Member
Jun 20, 2014
5,532
6,322
113
Just wanna put it on record that I am AGAINST cancelling student debt.

First of all, I just don't think the President have the power to forgive something like half a trillion of debt with a signature. Even Pelosi said so. And just to think of it, I don't want any President, Biden or Trump or anyone, to have that kind of power.

Second, I don't agree with retroactively forgiving debt when the underlying issue isn't solved. If the issue is that the debt were predatory, then we should make them not so going forward. The real issue that needs to be addressed is why are American university so damn expensive in the first place. Tackling that would do much more than forgiving debt.

For one, it is absurd that the highest paid public employee is typically the football coach. Now if you say, but he brings in the money, so he deserves to be paid. Fine, I agree that if a coach generates $9M that the university otherwise wouldn't have, then paying him $10M is still worth it. But if that is the case, why are so many athletic department running in red? And don't forget, IU basketball or Nebraska football is still generating money with sh!tty coaches.


Third, I believe in personal responsibility. If you voluntarily take out a debt, you should be held liable for it, esp. if you are taking a gamble on yourself that the college degree will enhance your future income potential. Unlike Republican congressmen, I didn't take out any PPP loan, so I don't feel any hypocrisy in saying so.


If we truly care about student debt, look at the sources. Figure out why the cost is so damn high and work on that. Help the current and future generations.
 

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Ah. your simple response when somebody breaks down your sermon and forces you to justify your posts.

OK. Simple. What 3 things do you like about his handling of the Ukraine situation.
No, I just didn’t want to read that.

1) Didn’t get the US militarily involved.
2) Sanctioned the shit out of everyone.
3) Made it commercially suicidal to do business in and with Russia.
4) Stood by and strengthened NATO.
5) Providing arms to bog down Russia in a proxy war they can’t possibly win and will end in strategic failure even if they gain territory. This has all the same markings of Afghanistan which ultimately led to broad disillusionment and helped topple the USSR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BuilderBob6

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Just wanna put it on record that I am AGAINST cancelling student debt.

First of all, I just don't think the President have the power to forgive something like half a trillion of debt with a signature. Even Pelosi said so. And just to think of it, I don't want any President, Biden or Trump or anyone, to have that kind of power.

Second, I don't agree with retroactively forgiving debt when the underlying issue isn't solved. If the issue is that the debt were predatory, then we should make them not so going forward. The real issue that needs to be addressed is why are American university so damn expensive in the first place. Tackling that would do much more than forgiving debt.

For one, it is absurd that the highest paid public employee is typically the football coach. Now if you say, but he brings in the money, so he deserves to be paid. Fine, I agree that if a coach generates $9M that the university otherwise wouldn't have, then paying him $10M is still worth it. But if that is the case, why are so many athletic department running in red? And don't forget, IU basketball or Nebraska football is still generating money with sh!tty coaches.


Third, I believe in personal responsibility. If you voluntarily take out a debt, you should be held liable for it, esp. if you are taking a gamble on yourself that the college degree will enhance your future income potential. Unlike Republican congressmen, I didn't take out any PPP loan, so I don't feel any hypocrisy in saying so.


If we truly care about student debt, look at the sources. Figure out why the cost is so damn high and work on that. Help the current and future generations.
A formerly prominent Knucklehead posted on FB about having more than $200K in student loan debt. I read his story and thought to myself, “WTF were you thinking?”

People blindly pay for MBAs without thinking about what it’s going to earn them. I have little sympathy for the plight of people with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt other than a mortgage.

Sooooo many other ways to get college and advanced degrees paid for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGunner

Joetboiler

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 29, 2001
3,877
4,305
113
No, I just didn’t want to read that.

1) Didn’t get the US militarily involved.
2) Sanctioned the shit out of everyone.
3) Made it commercially suicidal to do business in and with Russia.
4) Stood by and strengthened NATO.
5) Providing arms to bog down Russia in a proxy war they can’t possibly win and will end in strategic failure even if they gain territory. This has all the same markings of Afghanistan which ultimately led to broad disillusionment and helped topple the USSR.
Yeah the sanctions did a great job to drive up energy prices and put more $ into Putin’s war machine. Reuters link lays this out. And our awesome NATO allies are still the recipients and will be in the future of Russian energy. Probably more Their other options is to freeze this winter. Our former strengthened ally India (which we need against Chinese aggression) is increasing partnership with Russia. We have no recourse against India. So great our allies fund his war machine and my children go bankrupt because as the Washington Post highly detailed article lays out Biden F’d this many times over and we knew this was coming.

As a military guy you should know the best war is the one that is never started. Competency would have prevented. Sorry but your list reads like White House talking points.

But a bet for you or anybody. $100 favorite charity. The end result is Zelensky is drawn closer to China.
 

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Yeah the sanctions did a great job to drive up energy prices and put more $ into Putin’s war machine. Reuters link lays this out. And our awesome NATO allies are still the recipients and will be in the future of Russian energy. Probably more Their other options is to freeze this winter. Our former strengthened ally India (which we need against Chinese aggression) is increasing partnership with Russia. We have no recourse against India. So great our allies fund his war machine and my children go bankrupt because as the Washington Post highly detailed article lays out Biden F’d this many times over and we knew this was coming.

As a military guy you should know the best war is the one that is never started. Competency would have prevented. Sorry but your list reads like White House talking points.

But a bet for you or anybody. $100 favorite charity. The end result is Zelensky is drawn closer to China.
OK. What would you have done that would have prevented Putin from war?

Give the list that would’ve worked.

You don’t just get to say shit in a vacuum and babble on nonsense about India (LOL!). Give your genius alternatives.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,454
13,475
113
OK. What would you have done that would have prevented Putin from war?

Give the list that would’ve worked.

You don’t just get to say shit in a vacuum and babble on nonsense about India (LOL!). Give your genius alternatives.
If Trump were POTUS, Putin would not have invaded the Ukraine. Period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BSIT

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
If Trump were POTUS, Putin would not have invaded the Ukraine. Period.
Ah yes. The unknowable and unprovable. So, we just make Trump POTUS for life then?

What policy should Biden have enacted to prevent Putin from invading?

And then what if you’re wrong and Putin did invade when Trump was in office? What would do you think Trump would have done differently?

Remove the person from it: let’s talk about actions. What actions would have prevented Putin from invading Ukraine?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BuilderBob6

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,454
13,475
113
Ah yes. The unknowable and unprovable. So, we just make Trump POTUS for life then?

What policy should Biden have enacted to prevent Putin from invading?

And then what if you’re wrong and Putin did invade when Trump was in office? What would do you think Trump would have done differently?

Remove the person from it: let’s talk about actions. What actions would have prevented Putin from invading Ukraine?
Putin respected Trump. Putin and other world leaders view Biden as weak. Putin respects power.
If Putin would have threatened Ukraine under Trump, Trump would have told him there would be severe military consequences. Go ahead, see if I’m bluffing.
It’s the same reason we had global stability under Trump. World leaders feared/respected Trump.
 

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Putin respected Trump. Putin and other world leaders view Biden as weak. Putin respects power.
If Putin would have threatened Ukraine under Trump, Trump would have told him there would be severe military consequences. Go ahead, see if I’m bluffing.
It’s the same reason we had global stability under Trump. World leaders feared/respected Trump.
Bullshit.

Do you think Trump would have taken direct military action against Russian forces?

Nobody respected Trump.
 

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,454
13,475
113
Bullshit.

Do you think Trump would have taken direct military action against Russian forces?

Nobody respected Trump.
Trump wouldn’t have needed to take military action. The threat of doing so was a deterrent enough for Putin.
Other world leaders may not have liked Trump, but that doesn’t matter. They feared him, which is a form of respect for power.

People “like” Biden because he’s a swell, aww-a schucks kind of guy. Nobody respects or fears him.
 

PurdueFan1

All-American
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
10,231
4,923
113
Putin respected Trump. Putin and other world leaders view Biden as weak. Putin respects power.
If Putin would have threatened Ukraine under Trump, Trump would have told him there would be severe military consequences. Go ahead, see if I’m bluffing.
It’s the same reason we had global stability under Trump. World leaders feared/respected Trump.
This right here, ladies and gents, is what TDS really is.
 

BuilderBob6

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 27, 2007
12,188
13,216
113
61
North Carolina
Trump wouldn’t have needed to take military action. The threat of doing so was a deterrent enough for Putin.
Other world leaders may not have liked Trump, but that doesn’t matter. They feared him, which is a form of respect for power.

People “like” Biden because he’s a swell, aww-a schucks kind of guy. Nobody respects or fears him.
Trump attacking NATO, threatening to pullout and creating divisions in the alliance never seen before

Trump attacking election integrity in the west, showing the world democracy is weak, corrupt, and unstable.

Trump undermining and creatings divisions in the traditional western alliances.

Why the hell would Putin invade Ukraine and threaten to stop trump from enacting the very policies Putin wanted? Jfc, this isn't rocket science.

Putin was getting exactly what he wanted by doing nothing. Trump would have withdrawn from NATO in his second term and Putin could walk into Ukraine.

No. The more accurate reason is Putin was afraid trump would actually start a war with him if he attacked Ukraine.......because trump is so fond of them and would be willing to go to war to protect them. Gtfo.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Crayfish57

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Trump wouldn’t have needed to take military action. The threat of doing so was a deterrent enough for Putin.
Other world leaders may not have liked Trump, but that doesn’t matter. They feared him, which is a form of respect for power.

People “like” Biden because he’s a swell, aww-a schucks kind of guy. Nobody respects or fears him.
Answer the question.
 

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Trump attacking NATO, threatening to pullout and creating divisions in the alliance never seen before

Trump attacking election integrity in the west, showing the world democracy is weak, corrupt, and unstable.

Trump undermining and creatings divisions in the traditional western alliances.

Why the hell would Putin invade Ukraine and threaten to stop trump from enacting the very policies Putin wanted? Jfc, this isn't rocket science.

Putin was getting exactly what he wanted by doing nothing. Trump would have withdrawn from NATO in his second term and Putin could walk into Ukraine.

No. The more accurate reason is Putin was afraid trump would actually start a war with him if he attacked Ukraine.......because trump is so fond of them and would be willing to go to war to protect them. Gtfo.
Exactly. Trump’s approach to NATO likely emboldened Putin.

The reason Putin “respected” Trump is that Trump acted in exactly the ways that undermined American strength: withdrawing from the world, undermining the foundations of democracy… Putin was very happy Trump was in power. It’s why the Russians were interested in him winning in the first place.

What’s interesting is that Trump people acknowledge that Russia interfered on behalf of Trump (not colluding with him) and somehow believe that Russia would want the US to be stronger and more prosperous. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Trump was a destabilizing force in the West. Exactly what Putin wanted. He invaded Ukraine when he did because he felt he had no other choice to prevent them from turning to NATO. It had little to do with the United States.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BuilderBob6

bonefish1

All-American
Oct 4, 2004
14,454
13,475
113
Exactly. Trump’s approach to NATO likely emboldened Putin.

The reason Putin “respected” Trump is that Trump acted in exactly the ways that undermined American strength: withdrawing from the world, undermining the foundations of democracy… Putin was very happy Trump was in power. It’s why the Russians were interested in him winning in the first place.

What’s interesting is that Trump people acknowledge that Russia interfered on behalf of Trump (not colluding with him) and somehow believe that Russia would want the US to be stronger and more prosperous. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Trump was a destabilizing force in the West. Exactly what Putin wanted. He invaded Ukraine when he did because he felt he had no other choice to prevent them from turning to NATO. It had little to do with the United States.
Do you and Bob even know why Trump wasn’t happy with NATO?
NATO could not function without the US. I’m surprised you Libs don’t understand this with your focus on “paying your fair share”.
But the fact remains, Putin invaded Ukraine because he knows Biden is a weak empty suit. All Biden has done is send American tax dollars to Ukraine to support a losing battle.
 

gr8indoorsman

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 4, 2004
58,755
40,683
113
San Diego, CA
Do you and Bob even know why Trump wasn’t happy with NATO?
NATO could not function without the US. I’m surprised you Libs don’t understand this with your focus on “paying your fair share”.
But the fact remains, Putin invaded Ukraine because he knows Biden is a weak empty suit. All Biden has done is send American tax dollars to Ukraine to support a losing battle.
I do understand that. I also disagree with his tactics for getting them to do their part. It’s what emboldened Putin thinking NATO would just crumble because the man he wanted in office to weaken the US had done exactly what Putin wanted him to do.

Not a “lib”, just despise Trump. Put a reasonable candidate up in 24 and I’ll vote Republican again as I have in every non-Trump election since 1996.
 

charlespig

All-American
Gold Member
Jun 20, 2014
5,532
6,322
113
Do you and Bob even know why Trump wasn’t happy with NATO?
NATO could not function without the US. I’m surprised you Libs don’t understand this with your focus on “paying your fair share”.

Trump misrepresented a lot of facts about NATO. If you are talking about spending 2% GDP on defense, then he had a point (majority of NATO countries do not spend that much). However, his other claims were at best imprecise, and at worst inaccurate.



But the fact remains, Putin invaded Ukraine because he knows Biden is a weak empty suit.

Sigh, even my son in fourth-grade knows the difference between "facts" and "opinions".
 

charlespig

All-American
Gold Member
Jun 20, 2014
5,532
6,322
113
Putin respected Trump. Putin and other world leaders view Biden as weak. Putin respects power.

I can agree that Putin respects power. Bullies usually would go after the weak, instead of messing with those who are strong enough to stand up to him.

Yet, the idea that Trump is strong against Putin is laughable. Members of the Trump cult seem to have no problem with Trump siding with Putin over our own intelligence, drawing even rebuke from some top Republicans.



If Putin would have threatened Ukraine under Trump, Trump would have told him there would be severe military consequences. Go ahead, see if I’m bluffing.
It’s the same reason we had global stability under Trump. World leaders feared/respected Trump.

Fear is not the same as respect. I fear a lunatic doing crazy sh!t, but I have zero respect for him. Taiwanese might be fearful what Xi might do because he has so much power and has publicly stated that reunification is his top priority, but it doesn't mean they respect him. Big difference.

Trump wouldn’t have needed to take military action. The threat of doing so was a deterrent enough for Putin.

Duh, Putin can call Trump's bluff too, especially if he alienates our traditional allies and pulls out of NATO. Without NATO, Putin will have no worry about bullying Ukraine to submission whatsoever.


Other world leaders may not have liked Trump, but that doesn’t matter. They feared him, which is a form of respect for power.

You might consider living in an authoritarian country. People there fear their government that has unlimited power, and those in power take it as a form of respect. That seems to align with your worldview.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Crayfish57