So Who Do We Want to Be?

[MidyearVette]

OK - Purdue football is officially a joke. It will take a dynamic, well-known coach capable of big time recruiting right out of the box to turn things around. So, we'll do what we usually do - hire a big-name coach's assistant coach. The Bears have been doing this since Papa Bear retired and with the exception of Ditka, it never worked out well.

My advice to Mr. Burke is - either drop Purdue into the MAC conference or commit the funds necessary to put butts back into the seats and be competitive. Very few alumni (except those with kids on the swim team) care about our nationally ranked Tiddly Winks squad. Spend the money where the revenue gets generated!!!

 

[lbodel]

OK - Purdue football is officially a joke. It will take a dynamic, well-known coach capable of big time recruiting right out of the box to turn things around. So, we'll do what we usually do - hire a big-name coach's assistant coach. The Bears have been doing this since Papa Bear retired and with the exception of Ditka, it never worked out well.

My advice to Mr. Burke is - either drop Purdue into the MAC conference or commit the funds necessary to put butts back into the seats and be competitive. Very few alumni (except those with kids on the swim team) care about our nationally ranked Tiddly Winks squad. Spend the money where the revenue gets generated!!!

Purdue's last 3 hires have not been "big-name coach's assistant coaches" so I'm not sure why you're complaining about that.

 

[Foolmeoncefan]

Purdue's last 3 hires have not been "big-name coach's assistant coaches" so I'm not sure why you're complaining about that.

The problem with Purdue is that the swim team captain is our AD. He never even stepped on a football field to play the game in college so how in the hell can anyone think he is going to even begin to know how to solve football problems.

 

[IamBob]

I'm leaving now to go look for Mr. Tiller. Anyone know what river he's fishing on these days?

 

[pboiler18]

I wish people who say we should drop down to the MAC would kill themselves...or at least get a little perspective.

See the stupid shit I said above? That's how you sound when you say we should jump to the MAC. Stop being stupid. Our coach sucks...our AD just picked a bad one. That said, there are 1000 things (like idiot fans) that make it super hard to win at Purdue vs most other BIG schools.

It's obvious we don't have the coach to handle it, but actually fixing the issue is much easier than giving up. Burke is old as balls and won't be able to drag the AD down forever...but he will try his hardest to before he retires.

 

[MidyearVette]

"See the stupid shit I said above? That's how you sound when you say we should jump to the MAC. Stop being stupid."

I wasn't serious about jumping to the MAC. My point is that if we want to represent Purdue as a respectable football program we need to really commit the resources to do so. By the way, the way we have played against "lower tier" teams, I wouldn't get on a High Horse and act like we're "entitled" to be a top tier football program.

 

[Statey]

The problem with Purdue is that the swim team captain is our AD. He never even stepped on a football field to play the game in college so how in the hell can anyone think he is going to even begin to know how to solve football problems.

So you'd prefer to hire any old guy that played safety because that would be the requisite experience to know how to run an entire athletic department? You don't need to be a former player to be a good manager of people and sports programs...

 

[D Coordinator Firer]

Purdue should drop football like Chicago, and then try to close the light years gap between Purdue and Chicago that exists academically.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

"See the stupid shit I said above? That's how you sound when you say we should jump to the MAC. Stop being stupid."

I wasn't serious about jumping to the MAC. My point is that if we want to represent Purdue as a respectable football program we need to really commit the resources to do so. By the way, the way we have played against "lower tier" teams, I wouldn't get on a High Horse and act like we're "entitled" to be a top tier football program.

I think we are spending right at the appropriate level for this program. We were way underfunded for Hope, but that's honestly not the issue any more. We just hired the wrong guy. And everyone needs to realize the next guy we hire may not be the right one either.

 

[threeeputtt]

I think we are spending right at the appropriate level for this program. We were way underfunded for Hope, but that's honestly not the issue any more. We just hired the wrong guy. And everyone needs to realize the next guy we hire may not be the right one either.

Simply correct. MB does need to go however before our next hire.

 

[Inspector100]

The OP has identified the 3 headed monster, at least in my mind. Do we want to have this sport and participate at a level we currently are, or do we want to go warp speed and chase national championships. If we do the former, all the alumni and students (us) get upset as we have shown for the last 10 years. If we go for it and equal the power houses in college athletics, we will only be able to win half the games with the those power house teams. So what is the return on investment?

I started with the Griese tieam. I have seen plenty of poor seasons, beginning with deMoss and his top 10 recruited team. Alex Agassi had a nice record vs ND but that wasn't good enough. And on it went. Even the good years with Jim Young had their down times as it wasn't enough to be 3rd in the conference. So, where do we want to go with this. Is the ROI acceptable to put a lot of resourses in to it and end up 3rd or 5th all the time. And if the answer is yes, can we actually generate the needed revenue and be happy with that.

 

[Cleanface]

Ala Jim Harbaugh, It's time for Kevin Sumlin to come home.

Yeah right.


I'd still like to see Bo Pelini chopping heads off on the RA sidelines. Hard-nosed, tough as sh*t, PURDUE football. That's who we are (at least in BBall), and what we are known for. PLAY HARD. That's how I want us to be in FBall as well.

 

[pboiler18]

Ala Jim Harbaugh, It's time for Kevin Sumlin to come home.

Yeah right.


I'd still like to see Bo Pelini chopping heads off on the RA sidelines. Hard-nosed, tough as sh*t, PURDUE football. That's who we are (at least in BBall), and what we are known for. PLAY HARD. That's how I want us to be in FBall as well.

He is a good coach but doesn't recruit well at all. Neither of our last 2 coaches could recruit for shit and look where we are now.

I like Pelini but Purdue really needs a guy who can recruit first and surround himself with good coordinators 2nd.

 

[lbodel]

He is a good coach but doesn't recruit well at all. Neither of our last 2 coaches could recruit for shit and look where we are now.

I like Pelini but Purdue really needs a guy who can recruit first and surround himself with good coordinators 2nd.

I do wonder if there was ever communication with Sumlin (I believe he was hired at A&M after Danny Hope's 3rd year - not like we couldn't have cut ties then). Obviously A&M and Purdue are on two very different levels, but curious if we ever bothered putting out feelers.

As for Pelini, no thanks. Yes, he's tough - but he's also slightly abusive. You can be tough without all that drama that comes with him.

The problem right now for Purdue is what direction do you want to go. I agree, I think we need a head coach that is a manager and a recruiter. I think this is what Matt Painter developed that he didn't necessarily have. I think Painter came in, recruited well, had some great success and thought all the puzzle pieces of building a program would fall into place. It didn't, but now I'd say he's creating more of a "program" feel to Purdue than I've seen. Obviously, that will only mean so much if it can accomplish things, but I think he knows how to build a program now.

 

[pboiler18]

I do wonder if there was ever communication with Sumlin (I believe he was hired at A&M after Danny Hope's 3rd year - not like we couldn't have cut ties then). Obviously A&M and Purdue are on two very different levels, but curious if we ever bothered putting out feelers.

As for Pelini, no thanks. Yes, he's tough - but he's also slightly abusive. You can be tough without all that drama that comes with him.

The problem right now for Purdue is what direction do you want to go. I agree, I think we need a head coach that is a manager and a recruiter. I think this is what Matt Painter developed that he didn't necessarily have. I think Painter came in, recruited well, had some great success and thought all the puzzle pieces of building a program would fall into place. It didn't, but now I'd say he's creating more of a "program" feel to Purdue than I've seen. Obviously, that will only mean so much if it can accomplish things, but I think he knows how to build a program now.

I heard that there was communication during the search for Tiller's replacement but that Purdue's interest was never that serious. We wanted somebody with HC experience already.

It would have been tough IMO to drag Sumlin out of Texas even if Purdue had backed the brinks truck up AND been willing to dump Hope after year 3. Sumlin makes like $5million and there's no garuntee he'd be working wonders here either. Texas is a much easier place to recruit to than Indiana....that's just the facts.

 

[banshee90]

I heard that there was communication during the search for Tiller's replacement but that Purdue's interest was never that serious. We wanted somebody with HC experience already.

It would have been tough IMO to drag Sumlin out of Texas even if Purdue had backed the brinks truck up AND been willing to dump Hope after year 3. Sumlin makes like $5million and there's no garuntee he'd be working wonders here either. Texas is a much easier place to recruit to than Indiana....that's just the facts.

IDK sumlin offense made johnny football look Heisman good. Now he is circling the toilet for the browns.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I do wonder if there was ever communication with Sumlin (I believe he was hired at A&M after Danny Hope's 3rd year - not like we couldn't have cut ties then). Obviously A&M and Purdue are on two very different levels, but curious if we ever bothered putting out feelers.

As for Pelini, no thanks. Yes, he's tough - but he's also slightly abusive. You can be tough without all that drama that comes with him.

The problem right now for Purdue is what direction do you want to go. I agree, I think we need a head coach that is a manager and a recruiter. I think this is what Matt Painter developed that he didn't necessarily have. I think Painter came in, recruited well, had some great success and thought all the puzzle pieces of building a program would fall into place. It didn't, but now I'd say he's creating more of a "program" feel to Purdue than I've seen. Obviously, that will only mean so much if it can accomplish things, but I think he knows how to build a program now.

From what I have heard, a representative for Sumlin contacted Purdue and MB at some point and inquired about coaching at Purdue (whether it be while Tiller was here or Hope was here, I'm not sure). The story goes that MB essentially told Sumlin he needed more HC experience and Sumlin was really put off by that comment considering he had been a HC at Houston and had some success. He also helped install the spread at Purdue under Tiller, was a former player, and had spent time at both Texas A&M and as the OC and Associate HC at Oklahoma. To turn away a guy who WANTED to be here, had success here as a player AND coach, AND had success at Houston was probably the first decision that really led to Purdue football being where it is today.

 

[boilermaker75]

From what I have heard, a representative for Sumlin contacted Purdue and MB at some point and inquired about coaching at Purdue (whether it be while Tiller was here or Hope was here, I'm not sure). The story goes that MB essentially told Sumlin he needed more HC experience and Sumlin was really put off by that comment considering he had been a HC at Houston and had some success. He also helped install the spread at Purdue under Tiller, was a former player, and had spent time at both Texas A&M and as the OC and Associate HC at Oklahoma. To turn away a guy who WANTED to be here, had success here as a player AND coach, AND had success at Houston was probably the first decision that really led to Purdue football being where it is today.

The sad thing is MB does not know what he does not know. Reminds me of the line in Dirty Harry, You're a legend in your own mind, at the 1:50 point,

 

[Wheels Of Steel]

I think we are spending right at the appropriate level for this program. We were way underfunded for Hope, but that's honestly not the issue any more. We just hired the wrong guy. And everyone needs to realize the next guy we hire may not be the right one either.

Actually, BoilerBulldog, the people I talk to in the Athletics Department tell me that we are woefully, woefully underfunded and understaffed. One woman working in our Compliance Department told me two years ago that we had 3 people working in that Department, doing what Ohio State had a staff of 19 doing. This semester a person working in academic support said we have two full-time staff members while the standard around the conference is six.

I think that we are doing a pretty good job of paying our coaching staff competitive salaries, but there is a lot more to the overall financial picture of major college athletics than that. And, recruits see those things when they take their campus visits.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Actually, BoilerBulldog, the people I talk to in the Athletics Department tell me that we are woefully, woefully underfunded and understaffed. One woman working in our Compliance Department told me two years ago that we had 3 people working in that Department, doing what Ohio State had a staff of 19 doing. This semester a person working in academic support said we have two full-time staff members while the standard around the conference is six.

I think that we are doing a pretty good job of paying our coaching staff competitive salaries, but there is a lot more to the overall financial picture of major college athletics than that. And, recruits see those things when they take their campus visits.

Comparing our AD to OSU doesn't make sense though...they have close to twice as many varsity sports.

 

[Statey]

Comparing our AD to OSU doesn't make sense though...they have close to twice as many varsity sports.

Comparing Purdue's athletic department to OSU's is probably wrong for a boatload of reasons... but Purdue has 10 varsity sports compared to OSU's 14, for both men and women, which puts the tally at 20 vs. 28... so "twice as many" is stretching it a little bit.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Comparing Purdue's athletic department to OSU's is probably wrong for a boatload of reasons... but Purdue has 10 varsity sports compared to OSU's 14, for both men and women, which puts the tally at 20 vs. 28... so "twice as many" is stretching it a little bit.

I count 18 men and 19 women's sports for OSU. That's what their athletic website shows.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Comparing Purdue's athletic department to OSU's is probably wrong for a boatload of reasons... but Purdue has 10 varsity sports compared to OSU's 14, for both men and women, which puts the tally at 20 vs. 28... so "twice as many" is stretching it a little bit.

I think you only counted the B1G sports, OSU has a bunch of varsity status sports that play outside the B1G.

 

[lbodel]

Actually, BoilerBulldog, the people I talk to in the Athletics Department tell me that we are woefully, woefully underfunded and understaffed. One woman working in our Compliance Department told me two years ago that we had 3 people working in that Department, doing what Ohio State had a staff of 19 doing. This semester a person working in academic support said we have two full-time staff members while the standard around the conference is six.

I think that we are doing a pretty good job of paying our coaching staff competitive salaries, but there is a lot more to the overall financial picture of major college athletics than that. And, recruits see those things when they take their campus visits.

One thing I will point out is that comparing athletic departments is not comparing apples to apples. Ohio State has 36 sports and almost 1,000 student-athletes - of course they are going to have more staff. And again, is Ohio State REALLY the school to compare yourself to?

Does Purdue have as many staff members in every department that would be ideal? Probably not. But how many schools are in the same boat? Probably not Ohio State, but probably a lot of other schools.

Purdue has 3 people in compliance? OK, Michigan State has 5. And they have more sports than we do. Doesn't seem so bare bones anymore. Purdue has 8 employees in their business office, Michigan State has 5. Purdue has 7 employees in equipment, Michigan State has 6.

So yes, are there deficiencies at Purdue? I'm sure. But Ohio State is not the best comparison for a number of reasons, both financially and considering they have nearly double the number of sports that we do.

 

[Statey]

I think you only counted the B1G sports, OSU has a bunch of varsity status sports that play outside the B1G.

My mistake, yes I was counting only B1G conference. I wasn't including OSU's independent fencing and pistol programs, as an example. Perhaps I should have, I suppose they do require resources to run these, which was the basis of the earlier post I responded to.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

The OP has identified the 3 headed monster, at least in my mind. Do we want to have this sport and participate at a level we currently are, or do we want to go warp speed and chase national championships. If we do the former, all the alumni and students (us) get upset as we have shown for the last 10 years. If we go for it and equal the power houses in college athletics, we will only be able to win half the games with the those power house teams. So what is the return on investment?

I started with the Griese tieam. I have seen plenty of poor seasons, beginning with deMoss and his top 10 recruited team. Alex Agassi had a nice record vs ND but that wasn't good enough. And on it went. Even the good years with Jim Young had their down times as it wasn't enough to be 3rd in the conference. So, where do we want to go with this. Is the ROI acceptable to put a lot of resourses in to it and end up 3rd or 5th all the time. And if the answer is yes, can we actually generate the needed revenue and be happy with that.

My understanding was that Jim Young stepping down was his idea and to move into administration. At the time, Purdue was probably the third best program in the conference behind Michigan and Ohio State. Then came the First "Dark Age."

 

[Inspector100]

My understanding was that Jim Young stepping down was his idea and to move into administration. At the time, Purdue was probably the third best program in the conference behind Michigan and Ohio State. Then came the First "Dark Age."

And George King was AD, just getting ready to hire a one time HC for our basketball team that turned out pretty nice. Leon Burnette (sp) was next FF coach and he had one decent year ending at the Peach Bowl. But after that it was a disaster. I remember Leon and Jim Everette came to a Purdue party at the old Pizza Palace on the east side of Indy before the season started. I got a little turned off with Leon and actually said to him that "this isn't a country club." That is how I thought he ran the football team and it turned out to be somewhat true.

 

[boilerdug]

Ala Jim Harbaugh, It's time for Kevin Sumlin to come home.

Yeah right.


I'd still like to see Bo Pelini chopping heads off on the RA sidelines. Hard-nosed, tough as sh*t, PURDUE football. That's who we are (at least in BBall), and what we are known for. PLAY HARD. That's how I want us to be in FBall as well.

We tried the hard-nosed, tough guy before and it didn't work out at all! Every heard of a guy named Jim Colletto???

 

[Boiler8285]

My mistake, yes I was counting only B1G conference. I wasn't including OSU's independent fencing and pistol programs, as an example. Perhaps I should have, I suppose they do require resources to run these, which was the basis of the earlier post I responded to.

Purdue has the bare number of teams to even be considered D1 and we probably have more teams in the cellar than any other school. Some of the teams OSU sponsors that we don't do require lots of resources; hockey, mens soccer, mens and womens lacrosse, field hockey and I am sure there are more without even checking. Our Athletic Dept. is pathetic.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Purdue has the bare number of teams to even be considered D1 and we probably have more teams in the cellar than any other school. Some of the teams OSU sponsors that we don't do require lots of resources; hockey, mens soccer, mens and womens lacrosse, field hockey and I am sure there are more without even checking. Our Athletic Dept. is pathetic.

Not to mention in many cases a varsity sport that is unsanctioned by the B1G will have pretty significant travel costs to compete. Men's volleyball, for example, typically has to travel to CA, Canada, Puerto Rico, etc. to fill out the regular season schedule.

 

[MidyearVette]

From a practical standpoint, I never understood the policy of awarding scholarships to athletes participating in sports that don't produce revenue. I used to wonder why I was working my way through school while some kid who could jump over a pole 7 feet off the ground got to go to school for free. Were people lining up and paying $65/ticket to watch him jump every Saturday?