So uhhhhh......Session was let go.

[Purdue97]

Sounds like that article is factual, he used I or me nearly 100 times and Trump only 1/4 as much. AND? WHAT?!! Because Obama referred to himself a lot in some speeches means his narcissism equals that of Trump?

" The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies (e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment.
Individuals with NPD seek excessive admiration and attention in order to know that others think highly of them. Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder have difficulty tolerating criticism or defeat, and may be left feeling humiliated or empty when they experience an "injury" in the form of criticism or rejection.”

Lol. How much of that sounds like Trump?

Since you were kind enough to tell me my problem, let me tell you yours.......and all the other default defenders of Trump. False equivalence. All powerful people are narcissists to some degree......but that's the key word, degree. It doesn't mean all narcissists are created equal. Trump's crowds are bigger, his lines are longer, his brain is bigger. In the history of the world, his accomplishments are always the greatest. You know exactly what I'm talking about but for some reason you just can't admit it.

It's the same with the lies. The standard reply from Trumpers is "all politicians lie". Of course they do but Trump has taken it to a new level and you know it. Fact check sites are setting traffic records because of this guy. And since people like you refuse to call him out, he keeps lying to you. There is no equivalence here, not even close.

You are not going to teach me anything in the realm of psyche. Also, if one rereads my post you will see it posted that I, myself, me etc are more involved with depression and distress over narcassism.

Pretty safe to say all politicians are narcassistic. Have to be to think one has the answers and right solutions for everyone. As for powerful people, some yes, some no.

Narcissism displays itself in different ways. Use Trump as an example is fine. Using Obama with him not being able to leave the spotlight, along with the Clintons, is another. Obama trying to take credit for economy when he said this growth would not be achieved, not admitting he was wrong is another. Trying to deliberate who is more narcacisstic is about impossible. They hit all the qualifiers. Likely what would be done is more disorders would be added.

Again your projection shows up in regard to what you call Trumpers and Trump and false equivalence. The most ardent Trump supporters on here have said more than once they do not like his behavior. For some reason you keep harping on his behavior and refuse to acknowledge he has been called out on it.

 

[Purdue97]

Sounds like that article is factual, he used I or me nearly 100 times and Trump only 1/4 as much. AND? WHAT?!! Because Obama referred to himself a lot in some speeches means his narcissism equals that of Trump?

" The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies (e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment.
Individuals with NPD seek excessive admiration and attention in order to know that others think highly of them. Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder have difficulty tolerating criticism or defeat, and may be left feeling humiliated or empty when they experience an "injury" in the form of criticism or rejection.”

Lol. How much of that sounds like Trump?

Since you were kind enough to tell me my problem, let me tell you yours.......and all the other default defenders of Trump. False equivalence. All powerful people are narcissists to some degree......but that's the key word, degree. It doesn't mean all narcissists are created equal. Trump's crowds are bigger, his lines are longer, his brain is bigger. In the history of the world, his accomplishments are always the greatest. You know exactly what I'm talking about but for some reason you just can't admit it.

It's the same with the lies. The standard reply from Trumpers is "all politicians lie". Of course they do but Trump has taken it to a new level and you know it. Fact check sites are setting traffic records because of this guy. And since people like you refuse to call him out, he keeps lying to you. There is no equivalence here, not even close.

LOL. BuilberBob and Indy 35-

Do not bat an eye when Obama lied, sold shovel ready jobs, mocked people for believing it, as a reason to increase total debt by roughly 8-10% at the time. Could not care less that ACA which oversees healthcare, roughly 18% of economy, and is important to every person is sold with lies of one can see the doctor, insurance premiums will go down, and you can keep your plan. Simply could not care less.

Trump lies about size of crowd and lines to get in, talks grandiosity with how great some thing will be, and britches get all bunched up. I mean, never seen panties so wadded up.

Talking about a politician and political party owning one's mind and moral compass.

 

[indy35]

LOL. BuilberBob and Indy 35-

Do not bat an eye when Obama lied, sold shovel ready jobs, mocked people for believing it, as a reason to increase total debt by roughly 8-10% at the time. Could not care less that ACA which oversees healthcare, roughly 18% of economy, and is important to every person is sold with lies of one can see the doctor, insurance premiums will go down, and you can keep your plan. Simply could not care less.

Trump lies about size of crowd and lines to get in, talks grandiosity with how great some thing will be, and britches get all bunched up. I mean, never seen panties so wadded up.

Talking about a politician and political party owning one's mind and moral compass.

Hilarious to see a Republican talk about a moral compass, if you possessed one you wouldn’t be the way that you are.

 

[atmafola]

Trumpers won't care. Currently working through their potential talking points on /r/The_Donald. The most upvoted ones will make their way to Twitter, which will then feed over to Fox News hosts and conservative talk radio.

then SDBoiler and the likes will come and post on here like some intelligent original thought

 

[atmafola]

Session's time was up long ago when he recused himself from the Mueller witch hunt. Nice guy, but not qualified for the position. Hopefully Trump brings in Trey Gowdy to replace Jeff as the permanent AG.

The "probe" has cost everyone enough money and if they have any critical information to incriminate President Trump, show your cards.

The "probe" has brought in more money that it costs. Waste of money is not a strong argument.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The "probe" has brought in more money that it costs. Waste of money is not a strong argument.

Where has that money come from....and whom?

 

[Scheffler90]

Where has that money come from....and whom?

Manafort seizure. $46,000,000.

 

[Purdue97]

Hilarious to see a Republican talk about a moral compass, if you possessed one you wouldn’t be the way that you are.

The way I am? Elaborate.

 

[indy35]

FBI Is Investigating Florida Company Where Whitaker Was Advisory-Board Member
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-is...whitaker-was-advisory-board-member-1541799564

Being investigated for scamming people out of $26 million would seem to be a bad position for an acting attorney general to be in.

 

[indy35]

Whitaker abandoned taxpayer-funded project in Iowa in 2016

https://www.apnews.com/885a44ac27944976ab1b6738e0c5ba38

Did the administration do even basic vetting on this guy? Or is being a Trump yes man the only qualification needed?

 

[BuilderBob6]

LOL. BuilberBob and Indy 35-

Do not bat an eye when Obama lied, sold shovel ready jobs, mocked people for believing it, as a reason to increase total debt by roughly 8-10% at the time. Could not care less that ACA which oversees healthcare, roughly 18% of economy, and is important to every person is sold with lies of one can see the doctor, insurance premiums will go down, and you can keep your plan. Simply could not care less.

Trump lies about size of crowd and lines to get in, talks grandiosity with how great some thing will be, and britches get all bunched up. I mean, never seen panties so wadded up.

Talking about a politician and political party owning one's mind and moral compass.

To compare your so called "lies" about a major policy initiative by Obama to some of the most trivial Trump deficiencies is a bullshit tactic and fools nobody. Let's mention the "NK is no longer a nuclear threat" or his "10% tax cut for middle class people before the election." Or maybe his claim that his tax cut wouldn't raise the deficit. I've got hundreds of them.

I'll admit I didn't pay much attention to the entire Obamacare debate. He may have been lying. He also may have believed his plan would still allow people to see their doctor or keep their plan. I do believe when you're trying to institute universal healthcare for the first time ever and given the enormous complexities of the problem, I'm not surprised it didn't turn out like he planned.

lol, "panties wadded up". It's funny how easily you can jump in the gutter with the Trumpers. I guess 60% of Americans have their panties wadded up........even with the greatest economy in history. Try and dismiss their dissatisfaction by making fun of them, it doesn't matter. It isn't going to stop......cause this president isn't going to stop being the pitiful man he is. As a matter of fact, as he continues to double down on his policies to appease his base, his support will continue to dwindle.........there's going to be nobody left to pull to his side. It's a self defeating strategy.........but at least he will have his rallies to keep his ego fed.

 

[Bill4411]

View embedded media

What a great guy Whitaker is threatening criminal prosecution if you don’t pay up to his crappy company.

 

[Bill4411]

Interesting that you point out how the investigation has "morphed into something completely different."

I've been listening to the second season of the Slow Burn podcast, which dives deep on the Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal of the 90s. In one of the episodes, they talk about how Ken Starr's investigation was supposed to be about Whitewater, but he shifted directions to the Lewinsky thing because he was determined to "get" Clinton for something. It's a fascinating counterpoint to all the GOP hand wringing about Mueller. Many of the same people crying about Mueller were cheering Starr (and, to be fair, many of the same people who cried about Starr are now cheering on Mueller).

It's yet another symptom of how broken and hypocritical our entire political system has become. If you want a perfect example of this, go look up what Bill Bennett had to say about Clinton and honesty in the oval office and compare it to what Bennett has to say about Trump.

Why can't we just have people with the integrity to be consistent in their beliefs and actions?

The Smithsonian channel had a great recap of the Whitewater investigation a couple of weeks ago: 1. The probe was over 4 years in length, 2. It cost over 40 million dollars and they had to entrap Lewinsky via illegal wiretaps via Linda Tripp to be able to prove the relationship she had with Clinton. So what after all the investment in the investigation all they got was Clinton lying about his relationship with Lewinsky... Who does that sound like?

 

[indy35]

https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...torney-general-russia-probe-matthew-whitaker/

If you wait long enough, the president will tell you outright that he did the shady thing.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The Smithsonian channel had a great recap of the Whitewater investigation a couple of weeks ago: 1. The probe was over 4 years in length, 2. It cost over 40 million dollars and they had to entrap Lewinsky via illegal wiretaps via Linda Tripp to be able to prove the relationship she had with Clinton. So what after all the investment in the investigation all they got was Clinton lying about his relationship with Lewinsky... Who does that sound like?

Had Nixon listened and destroyed the tapes as "suggested" the investigation would never have happened. And he'd have gone down as one of the greatest President's ever.....and may still be classified as such.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...torney-general-russia-probe-matthew-whitaker/

If you wait long enough, the president will tell you outright that he did the shady thing.

So what's "shady" about putting someone you trust into a key situation. It's done all of the time. Obama did it, Clinton did it, Bush did it, Kennedy did it....but wait, it only counts when the guy has a "R" on his lapel...right?

 

[BoilerBiker]

its called 'selective' rule of law. : /

"In bypassing Rosenstein for Whitaker, Trump has added to the woes he will face when the Democrats take control of the House in early January. That's because of lingering and now public doubts about Whitaker's professional qualifications for office and clear statutory language that makes him legally ineligible to be acting attorney general."
...
"I'm very disappointed to see lawyers who work for Matthew Whitaker go back to 1866 and look for a precedent [to keep him in his job]."
"I don't care what happened in 1866. Congress changed the law in the 1960s."

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/...er-matt-whitaker-attorney-general-appointment

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jud...ill-the-real-attorney-general-please-stand-up

 

[Scheffler90]

Had Nixon listened and destroyed the tapes as "suggested" the investigation would never have happened. And he'd have gone down as one of the greatest President's ever.....and may still be classified as such.

You sound almost disappointed that Nixon didn't go ahead and obstruct justice by burning the tapes.

 

[atmafola]

LOL. BuilberBob and Indy 35-

Do not bat an eye when Obama lied, sold shovel ready jobs, mocked people for believing it, as a reason to increase total debt by roughly 8-10% at the time. Could not care less that ACA which oversees healthcare, roughly 18% of economy, and is important to every person is sold with lies of one can see the doctor, insurance premiums will go down, and you can keep your plan. Simply could not care less.

Trump lies about size of crowd and lines to get in, talks grandiosity with how great some thing will be, and britches get all bunched up. I mean, never seen panties so wadded up.

Talking about a politician and political party owning one's mind and moral compass.

that a future didn't happen as predicted or expected is not a lie. It is exactly that, a missed prediction.

A lie is purposely misrepresenting facts that are known (not predicted) e.g Trump claiming his innauguration crowd was bigger than Obama's. I'm tired of idiots conflating the two.

 

[Scheffler90]

To compare your so called "lies" about a major policy initiative by Obama to some of the most trivial Trump deficiencies is a bullshit tactic and fools nobody. Let's mention the "NK is no longer a nuclear threat" or his "10% tax cut for middle class people before the election." Or maybe his claim that his tax cut wouldn't raise the deficit. I've got hundreds of them.

I'll admit I didn't pay much attention to the entire Obamacare debate. He may have been lying. He also may have believed his plan would still allow people to see their doctor or keep their plan. I do believe when you're trying to institute universal healthcare for the first time ever and given the enormous complexities of the problem, I'm not surprised it didn't turn out like he planned.

lol, "panties wadded up". It's funny how easily you can jump in the gutter with the Trumpers. I guess 60% of Americans have their panties wadded up........even with the greatest economy in history. Try and dismiss their dissatisfaction by making fun of them, it doesn't matter. It isn't going to stop......cause this president isn't going to stop being the pitiful man he is. As a matter of fact, as he continues to double down on his policies to appease his base, his support will continue to dwindle.........there's going to be nobody left to pull to his side. It's a self defeating strategy.........but at least he will have his rallies to keep his ego fed.

I'm totally OK with people pointing out fibs by the "other side". Presidents lie...sometimes a little and sometimes a lot. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and on down the line...they all lied at some point. My problem with Trump is the sheer number of lies. It's constant. It's sometimes dozens of lies in a single day. That's not something you could claim with any predecessor.

It's like a guy who goes to a dinner party where there is light drinking and he just starts guzzling all the liquor in sight Bluto Blutarski style, then when is confronted for drinking too much, he angrily points at the guy in the corner who is holding a wine spritzer he's been nursing for 2 hours and shouts "BUT HE'S DRINKING TOO!!!!"

 

[TwinDegrees2]

that a future didn't happen as predicted or expected is not a lie. It is exactly that, a missed prediction.

A lie is purposely misrepresenting facts that are known (not predicted) e.g Trump claiming his innauguration crowd was bigger than Obama's. I'm tired of idiots conflating the two.

Dude, did Obama ever lie to the people? Hillary? Bill? Kennedy? Pelosi? How about other Democrats?

 

[BoilerJS]

Dude, did Obama ever lie to the people? Hillary? Bill? Kennedy? Pelosi? How about other Democrats?

Twin did any of the above ask for two scoops of ice cream.
I heard a reporter ask Trump what color his socks were. He said black when they were actually navy blue. The reporter called him a liar.
He was afraid to say black for fear of being called a racist.

 

[indy35]

Dude, did Obama ever lie to the people? Hillary? Bill? Kennedy? Pelosi? How about other Democrats?

Maybe you missed this part of the post?

"It's like a guy who goes to a dinner party where there is light drinking and he just starts guzzling all the liquor in sight Bluto Blutarski style, then when is confronted for drinking too much, he angrily points at the guy in the corner who is holding a wine spritzer he's been nursing for 2 hours and shouts "BUT HE'S DRINKING TOO!!!!"

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Maybe you missed this part of the post?

"It's like a guy who goes to a dinner party where there is light drinking and he just starts guzzling all the liquor in sight Bluto Blutarski style, then when is confronted for drinking too much, he angrily points at the guy in the corner who is holding a wine spritzer he's been nursing for 2 hours and shouts "BUT HE'S DRINKING TOO!!!!"

Didn't miss a thing. You hate Trump, you hate anyone that's conservative and disagrees with the Federal government providing everything for everyone.

 

[Purdue97]

that a future didn't happen as predicted or expected is not a lie. It is exactly that, a missed prediction.

A lie is purposely misrepresenting facts that are known (not predicted) e.g Trump claiming his innauguration crowd was bigger than Obama's. I'm tired of idiots conflating the two.

I will just leave these right here. And it is from NBC, Columbia journalism, and NYT of all places. You know, real right leaning crazies. They try to spin it to make it a non lie as possible. It is considered common knowledge at this point. This is no missed prediction, a future that did not work out, it was known.

Keep up with the name calling. Bravo!!! Me, I am just tired of people ignorant on certain topics calling others idiots.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ot-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11485678

https://archives.cjr.org/united_states_project/the_failure_to_factcheck_you_can_keep_it.php


Oh, and shovel ready, it did not quite mean shovel ready.

https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/obama-lesson-shovel-ready-not-so-ready/

 

[Purdue97]

To compare your so called "lies" about a major policy initiative by Obama to some of the most trivial Trump deficiencies is a bullshit tactic and fools nobody. Let's mention the "NK is no longer a nuclear threat" or his "10% tax cut for middle class people before the election." Or maybe his claim that his tax cut wouldn't raise the deficit. I've got hundreds of them.

I'll admit I didn't pay much attention to the entire Obamacare debate. He may have been lying. He also may have believed his plan would still allow people to see their doctor or keep their plan. I do believe when you're trying to institute universal healthcare for the first time ever and given the enormous complexities of the problem, I'm not surprised it didn't turn out like he planned.

lol, "panties wadded up". It's funny how easily you can jump in the gutter with the Trumpers. I guess 60% of Americans have their panties wadded up........even with the greatest economy in history. Try and dismiss their dissatisfaction by making fun of them, it doesn't matter. It isn't going to stop......cause this president isn't going to stop being the pitiful man he is. As a matter of fact, as he continues to double down on his policies to appease his base, his support will continue to dwindle.........there's going to be nobody left to pull to his side. It's a self defeating strategy.........but at least he will have his rallies to keep his ego fed.

Reread your first two paragraphs. Now realize that you spend a lot of time on here accusing people of rationalizing lying. That is called projection.

It is not bs-it is what you, Indy35, and others do here on almost a daily basis. Do not tell me it is a bs tactic when it is your own actions. Lies on major policy initiatives were glossed over/ignored, or one claims to know they did not happen, but heaven forbid there were more or less people at a rally.

Honestly, the most ironic thing about Trump, and people that do not like his behavior, demeanor, language etc, often have behavior that is very similar to him. Name calling, attacking, going off on tangents, etc.

 

[atmafola]

I will just leave these right here. And it is from NBC, Columbia journalism, and NYT of all places. You know, real right leaning crazies. They try to spin it to make it a non lie as possible. It is considered common knowledge at this point. This is no missed prediction, a future that did not work out, it was known.

Keep up with the name calling. Bravo!!! Me, I am just tired of people ignorant on certain topics calling others idiots.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ot-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11485678

https://archives.cjr.org/united_states_project/the_failure_to_factcheck_you_can_keep_it.php


Oh, and shovel ready, it did not quite mean shovel ready.

https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/obama-lesson-shovel-ready-not-so-ready/

"Shovel-ready" was just a selling slogan. Did you also call Redbull a liar too when you tried their crappy drink and it didn't literally "give you wings"? The idea was simple, the economy needed immediate fiscal jolt, in the face of a raging depression. Shovel ready was just a slogan to express a preference for projects that could get going relatively quickly. That much was obvious to any reasonably intelligent person.

The vast majority of people remained unaffected by ACA. Their group health insurance options were not significantly different from what it would have if ACA didn't exist. So Obama's statements held as predicted for the vast majority. I don't recall him saying ALL folks will get to keep their doctors. I would take the argument that perhaps he didn't publicly state all possible outcomes. And he probably deliberately left out negative effects to a minority ( who will be likely have to change their doctors) and focused on the majority who were largely unaffected by ACA

 

[BoilerJS]

majority who were largely unaffected by ACA
-------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong, everyone is affected by ACA. The majority now get subsidized health insurance. And because it's a majority it will never be rescinded.
Everyone is paying for the subsidies.
I'm not going to pretend to know the healthcare answers but government subsidies to insurance companies is not the answer.

 

[atmafola]

majority who were largely unaffected by ACA
-------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong, everyone is affected by ACA. The majority now get subsidized health insurance. And because it's a majority it will never be rescinded.
Everyone is paying for the subsidies.
I'm not going to pretend to know the healthcare answers but government subsidies to insurance companies is not the answer.

explain the part in bold? which majority?
Majority of non-elderly americans were always on and are still on employer based group-healthcare. ACA didn't change that. The elderly were always on publicly paid healthcare via Medicare. ACA didn't change that either. The lower income in some states were on public funded healthcare (medicaid). The near-poor/and the uninsurables in the past just went without. That's the only group that mostly got affected by ACA. More of them are now covered under insurance than in the past when they had nothing. And they do not constitute the majority. so please come again

 

[BoilerJS]

explain the part in bold? which majority?
Majority of non-elderly americans were always on and are still on employer based group-healthcare. ACA didn't change that. The elderly were always on publicly paid healthcare via Medicare. ACA didn't change that either. The lower income in some states were on public funded healthcare (medicaid). The near-poor/and the uninsurables in the past just went without. That's the only group that mostly got affected by ACA. More of them are now covered under insurance than in the past when they had nothing. And they do not constitute the majority. so please come again

Because everyone is paying for it. Those getting ACA insurance don't have an option of coverage and are paying for ex, maternity benefits they don't need. Those who had (medicaid, medicare) insurance before now have to pay for the increases for coverage they don't need. So the poor (on medicaid), as you state above, have to pay more for their coverage. Seniors premiums also went up. The employer covered individuals are paying higher taxes so persons making under the ACA maximum income get covered. Subsidized anything costs someone.
The ACA adds a layer of bureaucracy and administration costs through the insurance companies. So everyone is paying for this.
The insurance companies are making money.
The people the ACA helped were the small businesses. It didn't help the poor, before Trump took away the mandate they were $1500.00 in the hole, it didn't help Seniors, their premiums went up, it didn't help the individuals on group plans, they're paying for the subsidizes through higher taxes.
So that's my logic for stating the majority of Americans are paying for this.

 

[Purdue97]

"Shovel-ready" was just a selling slogan. Did you also call Redbull a liar too when you tried their crappy drink and it didn't literally "give you wings"? The idea was simple, the economy needed immediate fiscal jolt, in the face of a raging depression. Shovel ready was just a slogan to express a preference for projects that could get going relatively quickly. That much was obvious to any reasonably intelligent person.

The vast majority of people remained unaffected by ACA. Their group health insurance options were not significantly different from what it would have if ACA didn't exist. So Obama's statements held as predicted for the vast majority. I don't recall him saying ALL folks will get to keep their doctors. I would take the argument that perhaps he didn't publicly state all possible outcomes. And he probably deliberately left out negative effects to a minority ( who will be likely have to change their doctors) and focused on the majority who were largely unaffected by ACA

Wow, just wow. After posting articles from sites on the left that say he was lying through his teeth, the rationalization and making up bs continues. The use of hyperbole to excuse it is on display. Then you have nothing, and continue with personal insults. Lol-ok.

 

[atmafola]

Wow, just wow. After posting articles from sites on the left that say he was lying through his teeth, the rationalization and making up bs continues. The use of hyperbole to excuse it is on display. Then you have nothing, and continue with personal insults. Lol-ok.

you may be incapable of independent thought and analysis, I am not. Notice, how you didn't address any point I made, but just mentioned that some newspaper article supported your view, so it must be correct. What hogwash.

I was politically aware at the time of these events. I made sure I understood what the issues were, what the proposed legislations were and their ramifications, I do not need an opinion piece by some newspaper columnist to form my opinion. You may.

 

[atmafola]

Because everyone is paying for it. Those getting ACA insurance don't have an option of coverage and are paying for ex, maternity benefits they don't need. Those who had (medicaid, medicare) insurance before now have to pay for the increases for coverage they don't need. So the poor (on medicaid), as you state above, have to pay more for their coverage. Seniors premiums also went up. The employer covered individuals are paying higher taxes so persons making under the ACA maximum income get covered. Subsidized anything costs someone.
The ACA adds a layer of bureaucracy and administration costs through the insurance companies. So everyone is paying for this.
The insurance companies are making money.
The people the ACA helped were the small businesses. It didn't help the poor, before Trump took away the mandate they were $1500.00 in the hole, it didn't help Seniors, their premiums went up, it didn't help the individuals on group plans, they're paying for the subsidizes through higher taxes.
So that's my logic for stating the majority of Americans are paying for this.

what an idiotic reasoning. I am in my 30s with no medical issues, like none whatsoever currently. Yet everyday through work, I am paying for insurance I don't need. Another extreme example, I have never once needed police in my life in the US and frankly don't anticipate I ever personally will. The only time they have interjected themselves into my life was to make my life needlessly miserable (and I'm not talking traffic offences) I guess I should be able to opt out of publicly funded police services since I don't need or want them. Your line of argument only gets to only one logical conclusion, go find some isolated part of the world and self-sufficiently live by yourself, so that you are in no way bearing the costs of services others use but you don't want and shouldn't pay for.

Your other point about ACA mandating some basic level of coverage. Still not a great point. if the health insurance was a proper functioning competitive economic market (i.e multiple independent sellers, multiple independent buyers, no information assymetry, no barriers to entry, information readily available to buyers and sellers etc), regulations about minimum coverage will absolutely not be necessary. Unfortunately, health insurance market is not a pure competitive market and perhaps inherently can't be, it has so many distortions, regulations such as minimum mandated coverage becomes the best the imperfect but useful tool that it is.

 

[Purdue97]

you may be incapable of independent thought and analysis, I am not. Notice, how you didn't address any point I made, but just mentioned that some newspaper article supported your view, so it must be correct. What hogwash.

I was politically aware at the time of these events. I made sure I understood what the issues were, what the proposed legislations were and their ramifications, I do not need an opinion piece by some newspaper columnist to form my opinion. You may.

Lol. Says the poster that resorts to name calling insults in the thread. And then claims the vast majority are not impacted by ACA. Keep it up with your own individual opinions.

You may want to learn the difference between an op-ed and a news article

 

[ecouch]

Imagine Dragons.

Yes or No?

 

[BuilderBob6]

Reread your first two paragraphs. Now realize that you spend a lot of time on here accusing people of rationalizing lying. That is called projection.

It is not bs-it is what you, Indy35, and others do here on almost a daily basis. Do not tell me it is a bs tactic when it is your own actions. Lies on major policy initiatives were glossed over/ignored, or one claims to know they did not happen, but heaven forbid there were more or less people at a rally.

Honestly, the most ironic thing about Trump, and people that do not like his behavior, demeanor, language etc, often have behavior that is very similar to him. Name calling, attacking, going off on tangents, etc.

lol. Again, you compare what you call a lie from Obama on a major policy initiative to a Trump lie about crowd size. There is no comparison when you compare those two but you somehow think it makes your point.
You want to go there with policy lies, fine. Trump said the deficit and debt wouldn't go up with the tax cuts. Lie. Trump said there would be a new tax cut before the election. Lie. Trump said North Korea agreed to denuclearization. Lie. His tax bill was gonna cost him a lot of money. Lie. He cries voter fraud when republicans lose with zero proof. Trump said it was a democratic law that children be separated at the border. Lie. Trump said the IG report totally exonerated him. Lie. Veteran's choice. Lie. The democrats want to raid medicare to fund benefits for illegal immigrants. Lie. The wall is being built and Mexico will pay for it. Lie. China is paying us billions in tariffs. Lie. Not how it works. Voters are changing clothes in their cars and voting again. Lie. Prices are coming down for prescription drugs. Lie. You want more? Those are real policies, real issues that affect Americans. Make excuse for those, please.

Projection is when someone makes a point, but is actually against it. I have no idea what you're talking about.

What the Trumpers do......and you have shown you are now firmly with them, is called false equivalence. Politicians lie, so if trump lies he's just like all politicians. Bullshit. For one thing, as @Scheffler90 pointed out, the sheer volume of lies makes Trump unlike any politician we've seen in a long time. We also see Trump tell lies that don't even make sense, that can be debunked without a Google search. In addition, he doesn't stop telling the lie......he doubles down, exaggerating it even more the next time he tells it. Lastly, all his lies and unproven accusations and exaggerations are intended to do one of two things, make himself look better or his opponents look worse. Obama lives rent free in his head. Hell, at his last rally he actually said his lines outside the arena were longer than Obama's. WHO CARES? He does........ because he just has to better than Obama, in every possible way. How fvcked up do you have to be to care about comparing your line to your predecessor's?

Something that was mentioned earlier. You mentioned how some trump supporters have acknowledged that Trump has character issues or he says dumb things.......and that they should get credit for that. Sorry. When they actually criticize his policies or actions that are the result of his character flaws I'll give them credit. That's because what he does and says are direct reflections of his narcissism. Everything that he inherited is in terrible shape, it should have been fixed before, and he is the only one that can fix it, he's the only one that knows how to fix it. He says this about EVERYTHING. That's just one result of his narcissism. lol. He thinks he knows more about forest fires than the experts........as he stands in the middle of a burnt out town.

His character flaws apparently exist in a vacuum, they have no affect on what he does or says. That's the current position of the Trumpers, and you. I'll hand out gold stars when they acknowledge his policy mistakes........that are a direct result of his "issues".

 

[BoilerJS]

what an idiotic reasoning. I am in my 30s with no medical issues, like none whatsoever currently. Yet everyday through work, I am paying for insurance I don't need. Another extreme example, I have never once needed police in my life in the US and frankly don't anticipate I ever personally will. The only time they have interjected themselves into my life was to make my life needlessly miserable (and I'm not talking traffic offences) I guess I should be able to opt out of publicly funded police services since I don't need or want them. Your line of argument only gets to only one logical conclusion, go find some isolated part of the world and self-sufficiently live by yourself, so that you are in no way bearing the costs of services others use but you don't want and shouldn't pay for.

Your other point about ACA mandating some basic level of coverage. Still not a great point. if the health insurance was a proper functioning competitive economic market (i.e multiple independent sellers, multiple independent buyers, no information assymetry, no barriers to entry, information readily available to buyers and sellers etc), regulations about minimum coverage will absolutely not be necessary. Unfortunately, health insurance market is not a pure competitive market and perhaps inherently can't be, it has so many distortions, regulations such as minimum mandated coverage becomes the best the imperfect but useful tool that it is.

You WILL need it someday. And you should not be allowed to buy it, after you need it, for the same price as someone who has been paying for it for years.
Your police analogy is pretty lame. Maybe you haven't needed police because you already have them.
I disagree with Trump taking away the mandate. I know he did it to let the ACA die a slow death. The problem is once an entitlement is awarded it will never be taken away.
Health insurance subsidizes, for the middle class, are here to stay. The poor and elderly already had subsidized insurance, (Medicare and Medicaid).

 

[BoilerBiker]

Your police analogy is pretty lame. Maybe you haven't needed police because you already have them.
.

it is a good analogy.
police/fire/ems, schools, roads, abortion clinics, wars.... all programs we contribute $ to. it is not based on a voluntary choice to contribute.

 

[BoilerJS]

it is a good analogy.
police/fire/ems, schools, roads, abortion clinics, wars.... all programs we contribute $ to. it is not based on a voluntary choice to contribute.

I have no idea where you are trying to go with this but not needing police currently, because you already have police protection (they got the guy while at your neighbors before he could steal from you), or (how many people would go 90 mph if there was no one enforcing a speed limit?)is not the same as not having health insurance because you currently don't need it. Roads are primarily funded through gas/fuel tax, so if you drive to work you pay for it.
But on second thought you might have a point. Even those who don't have health insurance are covered for medical emergencies, life threatening ones. It states so on the door to the hospital. So if everyone is covered why would anyone bother getting covered. Oh wait that's because if you own your own home and get sick the doctors can take your home, car etc.
If you don't own $__t your bills are written off and the rest of us are paying for it.
I wasn't against the buy insurance mandate or get fined $1500.00. Even low income/snap recipients had their EITC check reduced by $1500.00 for their share of the ACA.
Health Care is a very complex problem and I won't pretend to know the answers. I just know where we are at currently and it isn't working or fair.

 

[Purdue97]

lol. Again, you compare what you call a lie from Obama on a major policy initiative to a Trump lie about crowd size. There is no comparison when you compare those two but you somehow think it makes your point.
You want to go there with policy lies, fine. Trump said the deficit and debt wouldn't go up with the tax cuts. Lie. Trump said there would be a new tax cut before the election. Lie. Trump said North Korea agreed to denuclearization. Lie. His tax bill was gonna cost him a lot of money. Lie. He cries voter fraud when republicans lose with zero proof. Trump said it was a democratic law that children be separated at the border. Lie. Trump said the IG report totally exonerated him. Lie. Veteran's choice. Lie. The democrats want to raid medicare to fund benefits for illegal immigrants. Lie. The wall is being built and Mexico will pay for it. Lie. China is paying us billions in tariffs. Lie. Not how it works. Voters are changing clothes in their cars and voting again. Lie. Prices are coming down for prescription drugs. Lie. You want more? Those are real policies, real issues that affect Americans. Make excuse for those, please.

Projection is when someone makes a point, but is actually against it. I have no idea what you're talking about.

What the Trumpers do......and you have shown you are now firmly with them, is called false equivalence. Politicians lie, so if trump lies he's just like all politicians. Bullshit. For one thing, as @Scheffler90 pointed out, the sheer volume of lies makes Trump unlike any politician we've seen in a long time. We also see Trump tell lies that don't even make sense, that can be debunked without a Google search. In addition, he doesn't stop telling the lie......he doubles down, exaggerating it even more the next time he tells it. Lastly, all his lies and unproven accusations and exaggerations are intended to do one of two things, make himself look better or his opponents look worse. Obama lives rent free in his head. Hell, at his last rally he actually said his lines outside the arena were longer than Obama's. WHO CARES? He does........ because he just has to better than Obama, in every possible way. How fvcked up do you have to be to care about comparing your line to your predecessor's?

Something that was mentioned earlier. You mentioned how some trump supporters have acknowledged that Trump has character issues or he says dumb things.......and that they should get credit for that. Sorry. When they actually criticize his policies or actions that are the result of his character flaws I'll give them credit. That's because what he does and says are direct reflections of his narcissism. Everything that he inherited is in terrible shape, it should have been fixed before, and he is the only one that can fix it, he's the only one that knows how to fix it. He says this about EVERYTHING. That's just one result of his narcissism. lol. He thinks he knows more about forest fires than the experts........as he stands in the middle of a burnt out town.

His character flaws apparently exist in a vacuum, they have no affect on what he does or says. That's the current position of the Trumpers, and you. I'll hand out gold stars when they acknowledge his policy mistakes........that are a direct result of his "issues".

Sorry man. I am not the one comparing them. I am just stating an observation that you and your ilk brushed off major policy lies under Obama, and again get your panties wadded up over Trump claiming his crowds are bigger than others. Do not be a hypocrite, if lying from the President bothers one, or one does not like it, it should be that way regardless of the party or the person. Much of your post just rationalized the lying. Not to mention, again, Obama told similar lies about debt/deficit/mortgaging future, etc. And to most of your post, I am just about certain posters on here that are "Trumpers' as you call them say they do not like his behavior. So not even sure what you are getting at.