So much for the IU "Athletes Bill of Rights"
- Thread starter New Pal Boiler
- Start date
So if he would have decided to stay at iu, he would have been using an athletic scholarship. Does that mean they would have only had 12 to use?
Unless I'm mistaken IU's Bill of Rights only guarantees athletes that their scholarship will be honored. Based on my understanding, the BoR does not guarantee the athlete a spot on the team. Gelon could have continued to attend IU for free, but he wouldn't have been apart of the basketball team.
His scholarship would not have counted towards the 13 scholarships as long as he was not apart of the team. Their Bill of Rights also allows former players (Example: Vonleh or Thomas Bryant) to come back to school whenever they want for free. Those scholarships also would not count towards the current 13 basketball scholarships. Hope this helps.
I'm not sure the situation is comparable when a player chooses to leave and then comes back rather than getting booted off the team because the new coach doesn't want to honor the scholarship. Also, why were they bullying him off the team if his scholarship didn't count towards basketball? They shouldn't care whether or not he stays at IU if they can just cut him without repercussions.
They were fine with Gelon staying at IU. He just wasnt going to be allowed to stay on the team. He chose instead to continue his basketball career. You might see differently, but I believe when a new coach comes in they have a right to get rid of the players they don't see helping their program.
So on May 12, he told Miller he planned on staying at Indiana.
"Everything changed after that," Gelon said. "It got ugly."
The next day Sandi got a text from a coach of the Indiana Elite AAU program, where Grant played, and it said:
"Hey! I'm sure you (k)now by now that Grant called and said he was staying, IU staff told us they may just push him off the team and let him keep his scholarship but he won't be playing or on the team.
"You can call me if you want and discuss, I don't want this overshadowing your Mother's Day weekend with him, but I just hope that like you said his grandpa can talk some sense into him!"
That's what I said, correct? He would have been allowed to go to school there for free, but he would not be in anyway affiliated with the team.
you have a link for this? I can't imagine the NCAA would allow that. SEC schools would all have 50 washed-out football players on full "academic" scholarships.
I can't link the IU premium board here. The site owner covered the athletic Bill of Rights this morning though, and that is how he explained it to us.
So what is to stop a team from "kicking him off the team", allowing him to stay in school on his athletic schollie, then letting him walk on later? All seems a little fishy to me, then again iu is a win at all cost university, so nothing really surprises me with them.
I'm sure there is a restriction in there against that. With as micromanaging as the NCAA is, I'm sure they have examined IU's Bill of Rights and deemed it legal. Personally I think every school should adopt the policy.
Why not...if it is simply a gimmick, absolutely...agree everyone should adopt it.
There is no way that he could have remained on scholarship and not be a part of the basketball program...his scholarship was a basketball scholarship...he was being asked to leave so that the scholarship was not taken and could be used elsewhere...precisely the sort of thing IU's joke of an Athlete's Bill of Rights was supposed to prevent actually.
Personally, I don't care one way or another...ultimately, the kid got screwed through no wrong doing of his own...spin it however you would like...in the end, he had his scholarship revoked essentially.
He had his team membership revoked. A new coach has every right to come in and make the roster his own.
If it didn't matter to IU whether or not he stayed there, why start doing sketchy, back-channels things via AAU coaches to try to get him to transfer. That's why I'm skeptical.
I don't see the big deal here. Athletic scholarships are year-to-year contracts for up to 4 or 5 years. Miller came in, assessed the roster, and was upfront with Gelon. Says their initial meeting was May 3, which is likely when Gelon finished his finals. Telling him he's not part of their plans any sooner than that would have caused undue stress for his academics. Telling him any later just gives him less time to figure out where he'll be in a few months.
The whole AAU coach texting mom is weird, but I'd be highly surprised if somebody from IU contacted him. Seems much more likely that word got out via all of the mutual contacts in the AAU world. It was made explicitly clear that Gelon would not be part of the IU basketball team if he chose to stay at IU, so the text message was probably a poorly worded attempt to encourage the kid. Like a "why wouldn't he transfer so that he can get a scholarship and play basketball?" sort of message. Who knows..
The whole AAU coach texting mom is weird, but I'd be highly surprised if somebody from IU contacted him. Seems much more likely that word got out via all of the mutual contacts in the AAU world. It was made explicitly clear that Gelon would not be part of the IU basketball team if he chose to stay at IU, so the text message was probably a poorly worded attempt to encourage the kid. Like a "why wouldn't he transfer so that he can get a scholarship and play basketball?" sort of message. Who knows..
The big deal is IUs "Athletes Bill of Rights" is a banquet o' BS.
Apparently one of the Rights is the Right to have IU lean on your AAU coach to text your Mom on Mothers Day wondering why you haven't transferred yet.
The answer to that one is so pathetically obvious that anyone who legitimately asked that has no place advising anyone.
He can stay at IU, on scholarship, and graduate with an IU degree which presumably is more valuable than the degree he'll end up with after first transferring to State Fair Community College.
Or he can transfer to State Fair Community College and try to advance his college basketball career after which he will still never earn a dime playing.
Yea, it seems odd to me that any responsible adult would encourage the latter without their own motives.
There is no such thing as a "team membership"...he had a basketball scholarship...Miller chose not to renew it...he absolutely has that right, as does every other coach in America...most simply do not invoke it...and it goes directly against the gimmick "Athlete Bill of Rights"...that was the point made by the original poster, and, it was valid.
Let's not ignore the part that this entire situation is due to Crean offering a scholarship to a D-3 caliber player he never saw play and was never going to use.
So hiring a creepy, clapping moron invalidates the IU Athletes Bill of Rights?
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...d-ineligible-iu-due-mistake-school/583049001/
Did Fitzgerald have his athlete rights violated by IU or does that also not apply when their athletic department screws up?
Did Fitzgerald have his athlete rights violated by IU or does that also not apply when their athletic department screws up?
It DEPENDS on whether or not he was offered and signed a 4 yr guaranteed LOI. The NCAA rules changed to allow this just a few short years ago. If that is the case then IU did have to "force" him to leave to have access to that scholarship since if he stayed and played or not he would count against their scholarship numbers.
If he did not receive the 4 yr deal, then yes it is a 1 yr renewable and a new coach could exercise that right not to renew it! My guess is if a lawsuit is filed against IU and Coach Miller or not we will know which type of agreement he had with them.
Per the gimmick, "IU Athletics is also making a Four Year Scholarship Commitment to every full head count scholarship student-athlete regardless of sport entering Indiana University"...and, it goes on further to state, "While four year scholarships were made permissible by the NCAA in 2011, most member schools have only selectively provided them."...which is ironic, as that is precisely what seemingly was done in THIS situation.
It seems to me that you guys pretty much have the gist of it:
- IU offers four year schollys to athletes regardless whether they keep playing in college for four years.
- The only way that offer does not apply is they are deemed academically ineligible or transfer.
- This type of policy is becoming common at D1 institutions.
- A scholarship offer does not guarantee playing time or even a seat on the team bus; it's been used innocuously with a couple of "injured-will never play again" football players already.
- Crean and Gelon were both delusional when Gelon was offered and accepted his scholly at iu (especially Crean-no surprise there).
- When Archie came in he informed Gelon that there was no path for Gelon to ever get playing time at IU, but he could stay on scholly (in other words, they told him the truth and inferred that he should look elsewhere if he wanted to play college ball).
- Gelon thought about it, and thereafter informed the IU coaching staff that he should have played more last year, and that he wanted to stay on the team roster. (eyeroll)
- The team then informed him that he would stay on scholly per policy, but that they might not (ie: wouldn't) be keeping him on the basketball roster.
- They did so with his AAU coach from Indiana Elite delivering a "don't you guys get it?" message to Gelon and his parents.
- The coach who delivered the message was not offended in the least, as evidenced by him also being the coach for Rob Phinisee.
- Gelon could not get a red-shirt transfer year arrangement at a D1 school; couldn't even get to a decent junior college - he will spend next year at State Fair Community College in west central Missouri. No expectation that he will crack their starting lineup (sorry-couldn't resist).
Here is my opinion. Since he was offered a 4 year quarantined scholarship and it was an athletic scholarship directly from the basketball program, should he have decided to stay in school, but not be allowed to play, then that scholarship should not be available to any other player until the time he would have exhausted his eligibility or finished his degree. Obviously iu is using this guarantee as a selling tool to recruits, but it looks more like a shady scheme to me. This is a case where the ncaa should grant a said player immediate eligibility at another D1 school if the player has that option.
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No kidding? If that isn't the Captain Obvious statement of the day. New coach at major state university contacts a nobody AAU coach to ask him to help a problem go away. You really think the AAU coach is going to burn that bridge when he knows the new coach is going to be in that position another 4-5 years at minimum. It appears as if he was more than happy to stab a former player in the back to get in good with Archie. After all, how many players would not consider that program if he had a conflict with the IU coach?
Is that why he went to State Fair Community College?
If your point is that the AAU coach had Archie's back because he wouldn't want to offend the IU coach...maybe so,
...but that would be a huge sea-change for IU because in-state coaches had NO problem steering their kids away from Tom Crean.
Archie told Gelon he wouldn't be playing in an IU uniform, but I'm quite sure that Archie didn't kidnap him and send him on a one way ticket to a community college in Sedalia, Missouri! lol
If your point is that the AAU coach had Archie's back because he wouldn't want to offend the IU coach...maybe so,
...but that would be a huge sea-change for IU because in-state coaches had NO problem steering their kids away from Tom Crean.
No doubt Crean's image among in-state coaches and AAU programs deteriorated over time. A fresh face in that job like Miller has a ton of influence within the state basketball scene.
I'm still trying to figure out why the family said things got ugly after he informed the staff he was staying at IU and then why the AAU coach would care and pressure him to transfer. If those things could be explained then I would believe this nothing-to-see-here act.
If things were as they are being explained here, Archie Miller shouldn't care one way or the other that he wanted to stay on scholarship at IU and neither should the AAU coach.
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