So... Is Painter's seat not even warm anymore?

[vilehoopster]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

 

[Chuchumutha]

For a number of reasons

1) Buyout
2) incoming recruits
3) Purdue alum
4) MB

IMO, his seat was never really warm.

 

[proudopete]

For a number of reasons

1) Buyout
2) incoming recruits
3) Purdue alum
4) MB

IMO, his seat was never really warm.

I agree. Only delusional fans wanted him gone.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Good thing dumbass posters can get their licks in before the season starts and they have to disappear because of the team's success. Maybe we can get a Willie Deane siting before we get started!

 

[thenagemj02]

If you compare last season to the two previous before that, it was better than sub-par. I'm not a CMP apologist so I agree with you to a point. However, recruiting has picked up (IMO) in these last two classes and everything about the program seems to be trending up again. So, to me, that should ease any pressure that he might have felt last season (which was probably not much, considering Morgan Burke is the AD).

Also, I don't think they played terribly vs. Cincinnati. You can say they shot terribly from the perimeter (and should have made more FT's), but they rebounded well, defended well for the most part, did a good job sharing the ball, and guys like Hammons and Edwards played well.

 

[vilehoopster]

Good thing dumbass posters can get their licks in before the season starts and they have to disappear because of the team's success. Maybe we can get a Willie Deane siting before we get started!

When people are unwilling or UNABLE to counter or refute someone's remarks, they immediately go to insults. if you study intellectual debate or propaganda techniques, attacking the speaker personally and not his points or assertions is always the first act of the ignorant.

 

[HomelessHarvey97]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

You seem like a guy that is very fun to hang out with YEEESH......

 

[SIBoiler2]

When people are unwilling or UNABLE to counter or refute someone's remarks, they immediately go to insults. if you study intellectual debate or propaganda techniques, attacking the speaker personally and not his points or assertions is always the first act of the ignorant.

So what you're really saying is that you can't refute my post.

 

[mathboy]

I think Painter has had to suffer through a real "Down" period in Purdue sports. Recruiting in ALL major sports suddenly dropped off just after he brought in the Baby Boilers. Our football program could not bring in the size or speed needed to compete in the BIG, and out woman's basketball program just fell apart. We literally stopped getting the kids we needed to compete in all these sports. It was like hitting a wall.

Of course, that made warm seats for all the coaches, whether it was their fault or not. Painter was one of those whose seat was getting warm. Versyp, Hope/Hazell have the same issue. I contend that Tiller saw this coming and bailed. If just one of these sports had gone down hill, I can understand the focus on the coach. All three? I start looking for a common cause.

Interesting that recruiting has suddenly turned around for MBB, coincident with an administration change. WBB takes more time because recruiting WBB players is often built on longer term relationships, however, we are now getting some good kids. Because WBB has kids stay longer on the teams, upperclassmen have more impact, so good kids as freshmen may not make the same impact as MBB freshmen. Football takes the longest to turn around because of the large number of high skill kids you have to bring in to get better results.

Are seats warm? Probably still so. Is there evidence that Purdue sports are improving? I think yes, but then again, I am a glass-half-full guy.

 

[proudopete]

When people are unwilling or UNABLE to counter or refute someone's remarks, they immediately go to insults. if you study intellectual debate or propaganda techniques, attacking the speaker personally and not his points or assertions is always the first act of the ignorant.

But you didn't provide any factual data to back up your opinion.
We had two down years out of what, 11? We bounced back last year with a group of mostly newcomers and for most it was a successful year, not great but a nice trend and resin to be optimistic.
Your last line of we could replace him easily is my favorite.
Sure we could replace him easily. But it's doubtful we could find a better coach easily. We would most likely end up with worse seasons then the two you are complaining about and even then it would be a long rebuild. According to your agenda, we would be hiring a new coach every 3 years in a never ending cycle of mediocrity.

Hate on Painter all you like. He has taken full responsibility for the two down years and proven that he has the ability to learn from it and bounce back. Wanting him on the hot seat after what we saw last year is just crazy talk. Perhaps you can point to a time in our history when we had the type of years you want consistently. You can't so your whole premise is hogwash. Find a team outside of Duke or UK that has had the type of success you say we should have and maybe your points would make sense. But you didn't because you know you can't.

Was that what you were looking for when you asked for facts to refute your complaints that were not based on any facts at all?

 

[pboiler18]

When people are unwilling or UNABLE to counter or refute someone's remarks, they immediately go to insults. if you study intellectual debate or propaganda techniques, attacking the speaker personally and not his points or assertions is always the first act of the ignorant.

You're shitting on a guy who JUST made the NCAAs, just nabbed his first MCDAA and is ranked in the preseason top 25 and poised to finish much better than that.

Shoot, even our biggest rivals coach wishes he had our team!

Even though we had a terrible 2 years there, Painter was still building some of the foundation that has led to us being in the position we are right now...and it's a pretty good one !

So after refuting your arguments... I'll call you an idiot!

Should Painter have been on the hot seat? Sure. If you have a top 25 team though, should you still be on it? Hell no! Don't be a jackass. You're going to be miserable this year when we win a shit tin of games, I can tell.

 

[Sennsational1]

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM



So I dont understand this. It just stays warm and that's it? If he gets to a final four it's never warm again? How many years of warm seat that makes the tourney before it gets hot? I just don't understand how it should "always" be warm. No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone.

 

[lbodel]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

Your main points are to be a constant complainer. My goodness.

Look at our football program - and you're focused on that we haven't reached technicalities for recruiting in basketball, like a top 50 player from the state of Indiana.

Good for you, I bet you're a real blast to hang out with.

 

[Bob Sienicki]

I will only say this... that after going 73-59 at his former employer, then taking his new team to a first year record of 17-13, followed by two losing seasons, 10-17 and 11-17, I am guessing that Duke now looks back and is thankful they didn't pull the plug on what appeared to be a very questionable hire in bringing in Mike Krzyzewski.

And for those who tend to jump to conclusions, that is not to say Painter will ever rise to the level of Krzyzewski, but if a coach who is arguably the greatest of all time can trip up for a few seasons before transcending the sport, maybe we should be a little more patient in context.

Other Hall of Fame coaches who suffered two or more "down" seasons, either in a row or 2 out of 3, BEFORE going on to much greater success:

Phog Allen (Kansas, 746-264, 1 ncaa title, 2 ncaa runner-ups) - 9-9, 3-15
Frank McGuire (NC State, 549-237, 1 ncaa title) - 11-10, 10-11
Ray Meyer (DePaul, 724-354, ncaa Final Four) - 13-12, 14-11, 12-13, 8-17, 12-11, 14-11
Dean Smith (North Carolina, 879-254, 2 ncaa titles, 3 ncaa runner-ups, 6 other ncaa Final Fours, 1 NIT title, etc) - 8-9, 15-6, 12-12
Jack Gardner (Kansas State/Utah, 486-235, 1 ncaa runner-up, 3 other ncaa Final Fours) - 6-12, 6-12, 8-10, 14-10
Al McGuire (Belmont/Marquette, 404-143, 1 ncaa title, 1 ncaa runner-up, 1 NIT title) - 7-21, 6-18, 8-18, 14-12
Phil Woolpert (San Francisco, 243-168, 2 ncaa titles, 1 other ncaa Final Four) - 9-17, 11-13, 10-11
John Thompson (Georgetown, 596-239, 1 ncaa title, 2 ncaa runner-ups) - 12-14, 13-13
Guy Lewis (Houston, 592-279, 2 ncaa runner-ups, 1 other ncaa Final Four) - 10-16, 9-16, 12-14, 13-12; 16-15, 14-14
Gary Williams (Maryland, 668-380, 1 ncaa title, 1 other ncaa Final Four) - 16-12, 14-15, 12-16, 18-12
John Calipari (UMass/Kentucky, 593-176, 1 ncaa title, 2 ncaa runner-ups, 3 other ncaa Final Fours, 1 NIT title) - 10-18, 17-14

And there are numerous cases where these and other HOF coaches had losing records within 2 years of an ncaa title, runner up, or Final Four finish.

Just a thought.

 

[TC4THREE]

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years.

Why not? You seem to have placed greater emphasis on those two bad years than the previous 4-5.

I will tell you the reason why he is cut some slack. He put together a team that was playing better than any Purdue team I can remember that some of us felt had legitimate hopes of a national title until Hummel's injury. The guy knows what he is doing and he wants to be at Purdue. He is not nearly as replaceable as you seem to think.

Also, he has learned over time. Some of your criticisms are valid and he seems to have learned and improved over time. We will be the benefit of that experience as long as he is at Purdue.

 

[vilehoopster]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

I'm guessing you wanted Keady gone by year 3. Are you BoilerBulldog's alter ego. Nitpicking the argument the way it works for you. As I said originally, guys like you will fade into the background once the team runs off about 10 in a row at the beginning of the season so enjoy stirring while you still can.

 

[pboiler18]

We should expect that every year. We will very likely accomplish MORE than that this year.

So why shit down his throat AFTER a decent year and BEFORE he's allowed to coach a pretty good team he's built?

 

[tjreese]

For a number of reasons

1) Buyout
2) incoming recruits
3) Purdue alum
4) MB

IMO, his seat was never really warm.

I agree hardly ambient...

 

[tjreese]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

Tourney play is not the best measure of a coach...don't buy the garbage from those that write. Many OTHER things go into tourney play more than a coaches abilities. We have seen the improvement in Purdue since Matt got a recruiting budget...course that came with losing coaches like Tiller lost...

 

[purdue4sure]

When people are unwilling or UNABLE to counter or refute someone's remarks, they immediately go to insults. if you study intellectual debate or propaganda techniques, attacking the speaker personally and not his points or assertions is always the first act of the ignorant.

On the other hand, if your points are totally disconnected from reality, intelligent people will point it out for you.

 

[BoilerStutz]

Mens basketball is about the only bright spot for Purdue athletics right now. Burke's seat should be on fire. Then Hazell, with Versyp right behind. Women's basketball may actually be underperforming more than football - no small feat.

 

[CRBoiler]

I think the heated seat switch is turned off, but it can get switched on again if the team underperforms. I don't think it will happen, though.

As stated earlier in this thread, anybody can make a few mistakes or experience some bad luck. I think CMP suffered from both, but he turned things around (not that those down years weren't excruciating). Looking at this team now, I support him 100%.

 

[SnowLeopard]

If Burke, Shoop and Hazell still have their jobs, how can you say Painter is on the hot seat?

Painter is a young coach, and already performing at near-Keady levels. He has turned recruiting around in the last 2 years....beat Michigan for Vince, got Haas to make a late switch from Wake Forest, Swanigan from MSU, and underrated 3 star pickups in PJ, Dakota, Cline etc.

I expect the next 3 years to be great years, as Haas-Edwards-Dakota-PJ are only sophomores. Sweet 16s will be the floor.....if we don't make the F4, I will be very disappointed but even then, I don't think you can say Painter is on the hot seat if he doesn't make the F4 in the next 3 years.

 

[pboiler18]

Yeah, Vince and Dakota were huge gets last year.

Haas is an absolute beast and if he's good this year he's probably gone.

Hammons has been a great program guy and will make an impact in the NBA because of his D abilities at a minimum.

Painter gets his first MCDAA and he looks to be as good as a Sr year Carl Landry.

Painter also fills our biggest need by nabbing maybe the best shooter in the country coming out of HS.

His seat should be warm? Go get ****ed.

 

[vantalge]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

 

[slidde01]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

Troll

 

[pboiler18]

Troll

Basically. I'd trade 2 bad years for how good this year COULD be. UK ALMOST did the same thing minus a year.

 

[VulvHa]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

You are clearly a troll

 

[Schnelk]

I cringed when I saw this topic. I didn't read any of it until this morning. Now that I have I've got to wonder: Are you out of your freeking mind? Except for Hummel & Company's junior season campaign the buzz around here has never been louder, since CMP came on board. We are deep. We are talented. We are experienced. We are confident. We are motivated. This team's ceiling is extremely high.
Try this: take your meds, drink the kool-aid and enjoy the season. You may be surprised. And most of all, BTFU!

 

[thenagemj02]

"Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball"

no

1. 1907-1908: 0-8
2. 1915-1916: 2-10
3. 1949-1950: 3-9 (tied for last)
4. 1951-1952: 3-11
5. 1952-1953: 3-15 (tied for last)
6. 1953-1954: 3-11 (tied for last)
7. 1962-1963: 2-12
8. 1965-1966: 4-10 (tied for last)
9. 2005-2006: 3-13

Nearly every head coach in Purdue basketball history that coached the Boilers for 3 seasons or longer had seasons where they finished either last or near last place in the Big Ten. CMP isn't the only one ever to have bad seasons at Purdue.

 

[kevindub]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

You are full of it.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Only way he's on hot seat is if we miss the tourney this year or barely make it in.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

Duke had a great tradition prior to Coach K. It was a great job even when Coach K started.

Regarding Painter, I argued against you last year when this was a frequent topic on this board. Purdue is not an easy job and Painter has done well with it. He's a very well respected coach and it's unlikely that Purdue would be able to replace him with a better coach within its salary constraints. (He'd be much harder to replace than Danny Hope was.)

As far as making the Final Four, only four coaches do it a year. I thought that Painter had a great shot at it in 2010 before Hummel was hurt and he has a pretty good shot this season, but it will never be easy.

By the way, when did Fran McCaffery make it to a Final Four?

 

[TC4THREE]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

1. Purdue job is not quite the pearl you think it is. It's a decent job but it's probably not a top 20 job or perhaps a fringe top 20 job at best.

2. It's not 1980 anymore. The college basketball world is so vastly different from when Rose got Purdue to the FF that it's not a great comparison. Rose left Purdue partly because he didn't want to compete with IU for recruits. JUST IU! In 1980, recruiting was a more local activity and Purdue and IU pretty much battled for most of the Indiana kids. It's not 1980 anymore. When there is a Caleb Swanigan out there now, we are not just battling IU for him (who was not much of a factor for him anyway), we are battling teams like MSU, Kentucky, and California. In other instances we're battling Duke, Ohio State, Illinois, Butler, Louisville, Michigan, North Carolina, Northwestern, Wake Forest, etc. The list literally goes on and on.

We're all Purdue fans so it's easy to get tunnel vision and believe Purdue's place in the college basketball world is much bigger than it is. We are a solid program with a decent history but we don't have some huge advantage over many programs. We aren't the fan favorite in our state and our facilities are pretty good but not going to blow our competition out of the water in most instances. Painter is a good coach. He wants to be here and most importantly he has proven he can put together very good teams here. Your attitude is exactly the type that got us Hazell. The current coach isn't as great as some fans want so make the assumption that we can just go pick up anyone off the street to do a better job. It's not that way. It will take one hell of a hire to find a coach that can deliver what Painter hasn't to date (although that list would be much shorter if not for the Hummel injury) and then if he can do that will he want to stay here or will he be gone as soon as the first Duke/UNC/Kentucky job opens up?

Finally, it's odd that you choose to bring this up now as the momentum of the program appears to be headed in a very positive direction after the two bad years you harped so much on. Last December when things appeared headed for a third consecutive disappointing year, this was a major topic. To be stuck on it now might indicate that you set your position in stone and then when the turnaround last year proved you wrong, you might be trying to move the goalposts to try to salvage your original position.

Whatever the case, I don't think many/any people are in your corner. Barring a scandal or him deciding to leave on his own, Painter is going to be Purdue's coach for awhile and most of us are cheering for him to do well.

 

[purdue4sure]

Let me try to refute a couple arguments against my original post.

Some people have said that basically How can I question a coach who got Purdue to the tourney last year and has a great year in store this year?" My argument against that logic is that, yes, that's all great, but shouldn't we expect that pretty much every year, and certainly we should never, never bottom out like we did two years ago. Am I correct that two years ago is the only time in history that Purdue finished last in the Big Ten in basketball; I think that's correct. I know that Purdue was down when Keady left, but still, Painter inherited a job at the school that was the Big Ten's leader in basketball victories. I don't think we are any more, but I know relatively recently that Purdue was the Big Ten leader in wins.

To the guy who listed all those great coaches (does anyone think Guy Lewis was a great coach?), did they have those down years at a school that was their conference's all-time wins leader when they started coaching there. When Coach K started at Duke, it was hardly the job that Purdue was when Painter started here.

To the guy who says I'm only looking at those two years... well, those two years deserve some looking at... but let's look at Painter's overall record in his ten or eleven years at Purdue. Two Sweet Sixteens and three years not making the NCAA. I would say that that is pretty underwhelming, very average.

Now to the guy that said," No coach should always have a warm seat. It either gets better or gone." I agree !! If Painter doesn't get Purdue to a Final Four and relatively soon, say five to seven years, He should be "gone." Yes, I said that. I know that luck and injuries play a huge part of things but really, is it that impossible to get to a Final Four. Lee Rose got there in only two years at Purdue. Tom Crean, whom we all make fun of, has been to one. Mike Davis has been to one, Fran at Iowa has been to one, Bielien has been to one, and Izzo... well, you know.

By now I'm sure that you have seen so many of your false assertions refuted with facts that you will understand why you have no credibility.

 

[Dryfly88]

1. Purdue job is not quite the pearl you think it is. It's a decent job but it's probably not a top 20 job or perhaps a fringe top 20 job at best.

2. It's not 1980 anymore. The college basketball world is so vastly different from when Rose got Purdue to the FF that it's not a great comparison. Rose left Purdue partly because he didn't want to compete with IU for recruits. JUST IU! In 1980, recruiting was a more local activity and Purdue and IU pretty much battled for most of the Indiana kids. It's not 1980 anymore. When there is a Caleb Swanigan out there now, we are not just battling IU for him (who was not much of a factor for him anyway), we are battling teams like MSU, Kentucky, and California. In other instances we're battling Duke, Ohio State, Illinois, Butler, Louisville, Michigan, North Carolina, Northwestern, Wake Forest, etc. The list literally goes on and on.

We're all Purdue fans so it's easy to get tunnel vision and believe Purdue's place in the college basketball world is much bigger than it is. We are a solid program with a decent history but we don't have some huge advantage over many programs. We aren't the fan favorite in our state and our facilities are pretty good but not going to blow our competition out of the water in most instances. Painter is a good coach. He wants to be here and most importantly he has proven he can put together very good teams here. Your attitude is exactly the type that got us Hazell. The current coach isn't as great as some fans want so make the assumption that we can just go pick up anyone off the street to do a better job. It's not that way. It will take one hell of a hire to find a coach that can deliver what Painter hasn't to date (although that list would be much shorter if not for the Hummel injury) and then if he can do that will he want to stay here or will he be gone as soon as the first Duke/UNC/Kentucky job opens up?

Finally, it's odd that you choose to bring this up now as the momentum of the program appears to be headed in a very positive direction after the two bad years you harped so much on. Last December when things appeared headed for a third consecutive disappointing year, this was a major topic. To be stuck on it now might indicate that you set your position in stone and then when the turnaround last year proved you wrong, you might be trying to move the goalposts to try to salvage your original position.

Whatever the case, I don't think many/any people are in your corner. Barring a scandal or him deciding to leave on his own, Painter is going to be Purdue's coach for awhile and most of us are cheering for him to do well.

Excellent post.

I love Purdue, most on this board love them too. We have to be realistic about what our program is and isn't. We are not Duke, KY, Kansas or IU (hurts but it's true). We are a solid program that can contend for the B10 title routinely and be in the top 25. Coach Painter has done a solid job with the tools he has to work with. He wants to be here and we should be glad to have him. Don't make the mistake of thinking that we can get something better. That is a crap shoot game I don't want to play. Enjoy this team and season!

 

[Heller]

First off TC, the reason Lee Rose left is he couldn't recruit and USF was starting a program and threw wads of cash at him. He went there, still couldn't recruit and then became a professional assistant. (BTW, he did not recruit Cornbread Maxwell to NCCharlotte). Lee was a great X and O guy but he couldn't recruit to save his ass.

Now, as to Painter, he like all coaches, needs to recruit. Keady's best years was when he recruited solid kids. The three amigos, Glenn etc. Geno made no secret that there are a lot of good coaches and when it came down to it, players were more important than coaching. Everyone lauds Knight, but every one of his Championships had top notch kids on it who went on to long pro careers (unless they got hurt.)

So as long as Painter continues to recruit, Purdue will continue to be a top 25 program.

 

[TC4THREE]

First off TC, the reason Lee Rose left is he couldn't recruit and USF was starting a program and threw wads of cash at him.

I was barely alive at this time but I had this discussion on KHC before and Alan always explained it as myriad of reasons with having to compete with IU as recruits being one of them if I recall correctly.

In the context of this discussion, I'm just saying the chances that Rose would lead Purdue to a Final Four now if he were the coach are very slim. He wasn't comfortable going head to head with IU for recruits (and yes, USF also paid him big) so there is no way he would be more successful in today's recruiting world where the competition is coming from everywhere for the best players.

In light of what has come out recently about Louisville and their recruiting habits, people have to realize that there is a trade off involved. Unless you think we should start hiring escorts to up our recruiting game, and I don't think Louisville is the only place that it has probably happened at, then I can accept the fact that it's going to be harder to land some of the top kids at Purdue than it is at other places.

 

[nitrowars]

I posted a thread last year, about this time, that if Painter didn't make the NCAA tourney, he should be gone. A lot of people strongly disagreed, but some did agree with me. I pointed out the ...

12-13 season - losing record of 16 and 18 - and the lose to Santa Clara at home in whatever tournament that was
13-14 season - Last in the Big Ten and how we played Northwestern at home in the last game to avoid last place and how that game was over with 5 minutes to go. We couldn't even give Northwestern, at home, a tough game to stay out of the basement.

Painter's inability to beat Butler

How Painter hadn't recruited a top 50 player from the state of Indiana since E"Twaun Moore. ( I know that some people will point that Swanigan is a top 50 player from Indiana, but that makes it one, and only one since Moore, still not impressive or acceptable.)

By my measuring stick, Purdue achieved enough last season for Painter to keep his job. Purdue made the NCAA tournament, but really, as far as I'm concerned Purdue barely, barely achieved enough for Painter to deserve to keep his job. Yes, we made the tournament, but we played terribly and gave the game away in the end, gave it away. And (in my opinion) Painter's refusal to cut down on playing time for lesser players in the pre-Big Ten season: North Florida and Gardner Webb, cost us a higher seeding.

I believe that Purdue is coming off two terrible seasons 12-13 and 13-14, and one subpar season, last year. I would say that any season where Purdue can't win one NCAA game is a subpar season.

And now... because Hammons agreed to come back for his senior season and we signed Caleb Swaingan, the last three years are completely forgotten. Are our memories really that short?

First of all, I have very high standards for Purdue basketball. What we have to look forward to this season should be commonplace. The excitement that we feel now should happen 7 or 8 years in a 10-year span, not once every 5 or 6 years.

Here's my bottom line statement: UNTIL PAINTER REACHES A FINAL FOUR, HIS SEAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE WARM.

and after the last few years it should be hot.

Let's say that we make the Sweet 16 this year. That's good. But then let's say with A.J. and R. Davis graduate and Swanigan goes pro. If we should then the next year without those three not make the tournament or make it and not win a game, then I think Painter's seat, looking at the last five years should be red, read hot.

My main points are...

Don't let one great summer or even one "good" season make use forget the last three years. Now if we have a GREAT season, all is forgiven

But a GREAT season means a Final Four.

Until Painter achieves that, or some sort of REAL sustained success (20 wins and making the NCAA every other year ain't real success) he is an above-average coach, at best, and we can easily find a replacement.

I believe playing a deep bench never cost us victories. it definitely was AJ Hammons, when AJ decided to play defense and hustle our team made its run. Other players too improved like Mathias and you have to credit Painter on that and the other players development.