Know both. Kurt was just taking over at Heights as I was retiring. I was in the HCC so never really crossed paths. Both are good men though.
So CMP says EASTERN is being influenced by relatives....
- Thread starter TwinDegrees2
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Know both. Kurt was just taking over at Heights as I was retiring. I was in the HCC so never really crossed paths. Both are good men though.
So then you know Phil Waddell? Didn't Scott Fernung also coach girls at Heights at one time?
Well, her not being here doesn't change this notion pat.
Well done!!
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if she's not still lurking here. I also wouldn't be surprised if she started posting again.
for your guys' sake, I hope not. Nothing good can come from that now.
NE seemed like a real good kid who was wound too tight inside because of unrealistic expectations piled on him by people hoping for a future payoff. If that is true, it's most unfortunate and completely not fair for the kid.
Not sure how this effects you guys next year. NE was an interesting case...can't remember the last time the B1G's best defender was also it's biggest offensive liability. For all of us who have played, hope you can agree- if you haven't 'found' your shooting form by the time you turn 21...you're not a shooter. Watching him shoot FTs was painful. But the kid sure could cover his man and rebound. Always have respect for someone who plays sticky D and goes after the boards. Those skills take heart and balls.
I hope he figures life out and his story ends well. I had some pleasant exchanges with his mom, we all know she loves her kid. Any parent can respect that. But hope she can see that NE needs her to give him a little space to breath and relax. And figure things out for himself...not for others with their hands out.
my 2 cents
Know Phil pretty well. Yes to Scott. Took over the year after they went to the state finals. Replaced Tod who eventually ended up at Carmel (now at Kokomo). Caught a really bad deal there in my opinion. But that's for another time.
exceedingly fair post alert
Who cares? Let Nojel live his life. He made his decision, it doesn't really matter why. He was a good representative of the school but it's time to move on.
Ow that would be fun! No longer a reason to be polite, so some of our worst will have a field day. Hopefully she stays away, and everybody parts as friends.
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I would bet she is reading. If history is any indication, she won’t be able to stay silent on here forever. I hope she resists the temptation. Would not be good or healthy for anyone (but I’ve thought that for over 2 years)
I'm behind on some things in my real job, but it pretty obvious you know some of the people I know from various capacities of which I might write you later. If you know Monica (Phil's daughter) then perhaps you have met Jay her husband and a VERY good high school player in the late 70s?
That is a word for it I guess...I can think of a number of others.
She was well-meaning I think for the most part but, it is not hard to understand why he is so out of touch with reality...still amazing to me that either could be so out of touch.
I had met her a handful of times, and, she is a genuinely nice person...and, Nojel is a very polite and nice young man...but, it was apparent VERY early in his time at Purdue that he was getting bad advice, inaccurate advice and that the disconnect that I have pointed to multiple times was already there...it just grew exponentially from that point on.
Ultimately, it was/is this simple...when a guy gets to the point in their career that Nojel and Haarms were at, and, instead of shining...and, more importantly, when they did not shine they were not bothered by it and committed to addressing or fixing it, choosing instead to quit/leave/seek an easier route...those are not guys that you are going to win with...more so if those guys are your alleged leaders...and, it is a big part of why last year was what it was.
I am bothered by the fact that Painter/Purdue did not see it coming or recognize that in those guys...more so in that with some of the things I have heard from several close to the situation, it should have been more apparent than it was...it says more about those guys certainly than it does Painter/Purdue, but, neither of those guys are/were a leader, and, neither should have been in that role by choice or designation.
While their skills and physical measurables were beneficial to Purdue and will be missed, and, while both were good guys and good representatives of Purdue and the basket all program...Purdue is absolutely better for their moving on.
The fact that both are willing to settle for something less than what they had, and, neither was willing to admit/own up to the fact that any problems/issues that they had with respect to development/playing time or whatever had WAY more to do with them individually than Painter/Purdue...never mind not committed or driven to addressing that...says everything that needs to be said about why they had the struggles that they did, why they will never reach those dreams that they both have shared, and, why Purdue is better actually with them no longer being there, much less serving as captains...in name only.
Jay Rich? Sure. Been years though. Played college ball out east if I recall. Haven't seen or heard from Phil in years either. Do you know what Matt is up to these days?
Well said. And I hate to quote Bobby Knight (at least, I think that's who said it)
"Everyone wants to win, but not everyone wants to put in the work to prepare to win"
I wonder if Haarms and NE just weren't going above and beyond in the work department to exceed what their natural talent had provided them with and that resulted in a lack of significant development?
Was never at HH. I was an asst AD at a Hamilton County school. HHC (conference), our schools did play though over the years, in multiple sports.
I like this post. It caused me to think further about the relationship between a coach and his players. (Ouch, that hurt!)
You have to work with the team that walks out of the locker room. You can’t easily “fire” the current kids and “hire” a new bunch. So what can a coach do when one of his best players turns out to be soft? What’s the “hardening” process? I suspect that Coach Painter expected these kids to grow and mature. He has mentored many a kid before that went through that growth.
What could Painter do with this situation? In hind sight, I guess the easy answer would be “Don’t recruit soft guys”, but I think that’s a cop out. This player was ranked at #68, and seemed to have all the tools to be successful. The work ethic that seemed to be there just wasn’t. Maybe things changed once at Purdue. Maybe the kid lost his way with all the expectations placed on him by both his coach and his helicopter mother.
I think we all hit those decision points in our lives where we decide to grow up, take responsibility for who we will be, and step ahead. Some kids fail to make that step. They fail to mature and take responsibility for their own development. The coach can’t change that. Hell, even the parent might not be able to redirect the kid. I wish Jelly the best, and I hope he can pull it together. Unfortunately, I think he is going to struggle for much of his life.
Time to move on folks....let's care about the one's who are still here and getting ready to be Boilermakers.
Boiler Up!
Boiler Up!
I feel like it's better than 50-50 that Nojel would have returned for his final year if he hadn't been forced to spend weeks at home where Mom could work full time on his "mental" issues without the interference of teammates and coaches.
Jack Nicklaus talked about the hardest part of his career wasn't winning his first major it was every major after because the expectations from fans/himself went up and the competition was going to increase. Some people rise to that occasion and some don't.
I assume that Matt is still with Lilly. I last saw Phil at a Purdue scrimmage a couple of years ago but I wasn't in a position to catch him. It has been years since I've talked with Phil. Jay was really good and last caught him as he was walking down my drive after handing out his brochures for county prosecutor. I always let him put out a large wooden sign if desired. Jane's brother Gene Milner played at Butler and is a cousin to my brother-in-law that played a couple of years before Gene at Butler. Jay went to Utica College in New York and also had a stint at another school, but can't recall...down south I think.
If you know Kenny Day, then I'll know you know a lot about Tipton. Kenny was one that would open up the gym so we could play on Sundays and as well as Kempton on Tuesday for so many years. FWIW, Brett practically lived at my house on weekends when his mother and father were going through a divorce...tough times for the kid. Curious about Kenny, but will try to PM you later since I've tied up enough bandwidth
The Mats Wilander effect. In the late 80s, he was #2 tennis player in the world and chased #1 Ivan Lendl for yrs. Several great, 4-5 hr grinding finals at the US Open. Finally after 3 yrs, Wilander busted through and defeated Lendl in the Open (maybe 89? can't remember now, too many yrs) and Mats finally rose to #1. After that, his career tanked. The entire battle was getting to the top. Once he finally got there, he was out of gas.
Spot on in many ways...
And, goes to show, or, really confirm, what has been discussed many times on here regarding how recruiting is not a science.
My only difference of opinion maybe stems from what could have been done once they were there ,and, once they failed to put in the work (and once they struggled largely because they failed to put in the work)...if I take exception with anything, and, I admittedly do, there is no way that those guys should have been the captains...that was not only a bad decision, but, it set a potential bad precedent as well.
You can't make someone a good leader...you can't make someone be leader, much less the leader, if they don't want that responsibility, and, it should not be imposed upon them if they have not earned it either.
Again, it is no longer a wonder why last year looked like it did.
I would say that you cut minutes ideally as well, but, that was not practical, and, it would have hurt the team as well...at least short-term. Much like the last time something like this happened (RJ), options really did not exist to help address the problem(s) unfortunately...Matt said he learned from that, and, I believe him, but, it is bothersome that he was in that situation again seemingly, and, for some of the same reasons unfortunately.
Leadership, or, lack thereof actually, was a HUGE issue this past year...more than we even knew we now see...that is definitely on some specific individuals, but, it also is at least in part on Painter/Purdue...they talk a lot about character, and, it is not just talk in that it is something that they absolutely value and believe in, but, they got themselves in a bad position in that regard once before (RJ), and, it resulted in a last place conference finish and the least enjoyable Senior day that I could remember in some time...they were in that same position this past year, and, it resulted in a 10th place conference finish and another less than enjoyable Senior day...I do think they learned from it the first time, but, not to the extent that they needed to in that it just happened again...but, we have to hope that they did not just learn from it more this time around, but, that they make sure that it does not happen again.
They not only have guys that can provide what they need and were not getting, but, they also are now rid of two guys that were going to hurt in that regard as well.
In many respects, I think that we did see coach react to that lack of leadership. Jelly’s time at PG was dropping, and the last few games IT ran the point at the end of the games. Think about what that said about the situation. Putting a freshman PG into the line up instead of your 3-year experienced PG says volumes about who had the leadership qualities needed to close the game.
IT has a major advantage in knowing what to do with PJ in his ear. Leadership "may" have been a factor, but probably not as great as the three ball and FT shooting or offense in general.
I tend to disagree somewhat with the "coach should have seen this coming...he should have recruited better" philosophy. It's not a foolproof proposition; not always gonna be 100%. You know what they say about the best laid plans..
The old adage says "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry..." for a reason; a good plan is nice and all, but when people don't perform or achieve what you had hoped for them, then said plan kinda goes out the window.
CMP isn't clairvoyant; he doesn't have a crystal ball to use to see how a player's career is gonna develop and grow.
He takes youngsters into the program who he thinks will be a good fit, have decent talent, and strong character traits, and then rolls the dice (as all coaches do), trying to make good players out of them, and more importantly: fine young men. But, he can't force them to mature, or become something that they can't, or don't want to be (a leader).
What he can do though, (to use the example of IT which was used here earlier), is put them in positions and situations to succeed, and hope like hell they grow from it. Bring them on slowly, if at all possible, and be there to help them with problems, questions, and suggestions to greater help them succeed.
But in the end, it's still up to the player to perform/grow.
Also: I don't know of anyone who could have seen the impact of this pandemic coming, and what it would mean to the players/teams/coaches. All that extra time sitting at home, with nothing to fill the time, I can see where that maybe influenced both guys in their respective decisions to seek opportunities elsewhere.
At least during a normal summer, they are (mostly) on campus more often, playing pick-up games with other players, and getting workouts in where they can. This summer, they haven't even been able to be on campus since March, much less being able to be around other players, coaches, academic advisors etc., who would be better equipped to help them keep their respective heads screwed on straight.
My wife says that that's when I am at my most dangerous, is when I've had too much time to sit and think (or as she calls it: "dwell on things"). Sometimes it's better to just keep moving, and try not to sweat the small stuff.
Again, just one fan's opinion and/or curiosity.
The old adage says "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry..." for a reason; a good plan is nice and all, but when people don't perform or achieve what you had hoped for them, then said plan kinda goes out the window.
CMP isn't clairvoyant; he doesn't have a crystal ball to use to see how a player's career is gonna develop and grow.
He takes youngsters into the program who he thinks will be a good fit, have decent talent, and strong character traits, and then rolls the dice (as all coaches do), trying to make good players out of them, and more importantly: fine young men. But, he can't force them to mature, or become something that they can't, or don't want to be (a leader).
What he can do though, (to use the example of IT which was used here earlier), is put them in positions and situations to succeed, and hope like hell they grow from it. Bring them on slowly, if at all possible, and be there to help them with problems, questions, and suggestions to greater help them succeed.
But in the end, it's still up to the player to perform/grow.
Also: I don't know of anyone who could have seen the impact of this pandemic coming, and what it would mean to the players/teams/coaches. All that extra time sitting at home, with nothing to fill the time, I can see where that maybe influenced both guys in their respective decisions to seek opportunities elsewhere.
At least during a normal summer, they are (mostly) on campus more often, playing pick-up games with other players, and getting workouts in where they can. This summer, they haven't even been able to be on campus since March, much less being able to be around other players, coaches, academic advisors etc., who would be better equipped to help them keep their respective heads screwed on straight.
My wife says that that's when I am at my most dangerous, is when I've had too much time to sit and think (or as she calls it: "dwell on things"). Sometimes it's better to just keep moving, and try not to sweat the small stuff.
Again, just one fan's opinion and/or curiosity.
Your wife needs less "extra time" available to focus on your "extra time".
Seriously, you make good point...and your wife is for you to best deal with...no doubt she knows or will tell you she knows you best ! Respectfully, as an IU fan, you have to be able to shoot the ball to play at the pro level. Nigel can’t shoot, so....,
Who is this Nigel person of whom you speak???
Blimey! He's NE's long-lost cockney British cousin.
Good post, she was the main reason I stayed mostly away from this board, especially the many NE threads. I just didn't want to read her inane posts and the arguments that ensued.
There is often a reason that special players are special players...and often it is attributable to a drive or passion that they have. The ultimate example is MJ...but, among many others, Caleb and Carsen are recent examples from a Purdue standpoint.
Those guys were relentless in their pursuit of reaching their dream to play in the NBA...they lived in the gym and weight/workout room...it obviously benefited them, but, it benefited the program and others around them as well...they set a tone and set an example...and, neither had to ever speak a word, their work ethic and commitment and determination was all that was necessary to make them effective leaders...it was no coincidence that they were as successful as they were and are, nor that Purdue was during their time in the program.
There are plenty of other examples...at Purdue and other places...guys there going back to when we were there all the way up to guys that are part of the program today, and, guys coming in (this year and next).
Those guys that have it or learn it find success...not just in a sport, but, in life.
Thinking more about Eastern leaving...
- Someone connected with Nojel has the ear of Howard.
- This move was discussed with Meetchicken long before Nojel made the announcement.
- I believe the staff and the AD were complicit in Nojel to Michigan.
- Mama knew about this three/four weeks ago based on re-reading her posts
- Nojel has been promised free reign of his offense....drive, dish, shoot when open.
