Small ball lineup

[Mgkcbb]

When HAARMS is on the bench

Interested to see how this small ball lineup does:

Wheeler
Eastern

2 of
Sasha / Hunter / Cline

Carsen

If nothing else, it would be a really fun lineup watch get up and down in transition

Would probably drill a bunch of 3s on offense

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

When HAARMS is on the bench

Interested to see how this small ball lineup does:

Wheeler
Eastern

2 of
Sasha / Hunter / Cline

Carsen

If nothing else, it would be a really fun lineup watch get up and down in transition

Would probably drill a bunch of 3s on offense

If CMP decides to go ‘small ball’ (kind of mute since Haarms moves so well and could effectively guard most guards given his height and reach advantage):

Carsen
Nojel
Wheeler
Evan B.
Williams

I’d like to see this lineup as it provides a ton of athleticism along with still having 3 known shooters on the floor (Boogie, Wheeler, Evan B) with two others that should be respected at the arc (north of 30% would be great). That would be a hard lineup to defend on the offensive end but not sure I love on the defensive end as there isn’t a shot blocker in there.

Also, I don’t think CMP needs to go ‘small’ since his bigs are known athletic players who excel in shot blocking/rebounding (Dow) or are shot blockers who excel in the PNR (Haarms). Would you have considers MSU going ‘small’ last year if JJJ were playing the 5?

 

[Wolegib]

I'm wondering why the original poster didn't want to play Dow, Williams or Boudreaux in his line-up. these three players are jus t as talented both outside and inside as the small ball line-up he suggests.

rather than playing small ball to match our opponent's lack of height, maybe we should be trend setters and play tall ball, and force our opponents to play our style of basketball.

 

[Wolegib]

I'm looking forward to Dow grabbing a rebound, and then throwing an outlet pass for an easy two rather than handing it over to a guard to walk up the court.

 

[northside100]

Agree, we could play small if needed, but if Dow comes in ready to play 12 to 15 minutes a game, I think you'll see either Haarms or Dow on the floor most of the game.

 

[Mgkcbb]

I'm wondering why the original poster didn't want to play Dow, Williams or Boudreaux in his line-up. these three players are jus t as talented both outside and inside as the small ball line-up he suggests.

rather than playing small ball to match our opponent's lack of height, maybe we should be trend setters and play tall ball, and force our opponents to play our style of basketball.

I'm ok with that too. Just throwing put potential small ball lineups.

 

[cjf04]

I'm wondering why the original poster didn't want to play Dow, Williams or Boudreaux in his line-up. these three players are jus t as talented both outside and inside as the small ball line-up he suggests.

rather than playing small ball to match our opponent's lack of height, maybe we should be trend setters and play tall ball, and force our opponents to play our style of basketball.

I'm ok with that too. Just throwing put potential small ball lineups.

Better chance of Painter playing zone than “small ball”.....u don’t recruit the players he has to go small....just saying.

 

[tjreese]

Better chance of Painter playing zone than “small ball”.....u don’t recruit the players he has to go small....just saying.

Statistically there are a LOT of good small ball players and so seeing that play on the court is somewhat common with dribble drive and such. However, the big boys have good bigs...because they can get them..as uncommon as they are. Most schools fighting that battle have to develop them if possible.

 

[nagemj02]

Painter has gone to smaller lineups frequently throughout his tenure. He utilized a lineup of Keaton Grant, Chris Kramer, E'Twaun Moore, Robbie Hummel, and Scott Martin many times during the '07-'08 season. It's a fairly common tactic he uses.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Painter has gone to smaller lineups frequently throughout his tenure. He utilized a lineup of Keaton Grant, Chris Kramer, E'Twaun Moore, Robbie Hummel, and Scott Martin many times during the '07-'08 season. It's a fairly common tactic he uses.

Yep. And he went small when he had both AJ and Haas. More than he should have, but he did it.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Yep. And he went small when he had both AJ and Haas. More than he should have, but he did it.

When did CMP go ‘small’ when AJ and Haas plyed together?

14-15: AJ and Haas accounted for a combined average of 38.9 mpg. Taylor also averaged 7 mpg.
15-16: Both averaged the exact amount of mpg as the previous year with Taylor playing in 13 games for 4.6 mpg.

With that and the fact I watched, recorded, and rewatched most games over the last 7-8 years, I simply don’t remember a time when those two were off the floor at once. You may be thinking to Biggie’s second year when he started at the 5 and Haas only started 15 games. In that case, there were no other real options at the 5 with Taylor being injured. Basil played some mop-up 5 minutes but that is it.

 

[tjreese]

When did CMP go ‘small’ when AJ and Haas plyed together?

14-15: AJ and Haas accounted for a combined average of 38.9 mpg. Taylor also averaged 7 mpg.
15-16: Both averaged the exact amount of mpg as the previous year with Taylor playing in 13 games for 4.6 mpg.

With that and the fact I watched, recorded, and rewatched most games over the last 7-8 years, I simply don’t remember a time when those two were off the floor at once. You may be thinking to Biggie’s second year when he started at the 5 and Haas only started 15 games. In that case, there were no other real options at the 5 with Taylor being injured. Basil played some mop-up 5 minutes but that is it.

If he went to small players the last few years it was due to circumstances...not his desire. There were times in the last few years in the closing minutes he did in fact try to get players on the floor in many cases a less rounded skill set...

 

[Mgkcbb]

Regardless of whether he has or not before, surely most everyone is at least intrigued enough to want to see a lineup of

Wheeler
Eastern
Cline
Hunter
Carsen

I'm not advocating for it from the get go, just want to see it in small doses and of it appears like it can be successful then I'd love to see more of it.

If it's a complete disaster then abandon it and never try it again

 

[tjreese]

Regardless of whether he has or not before, surely most everyone is at least intrigued enough to want to see a lineup of

Wheeler
Eastern
Cline
Hunter
Carsen

I'm not advocating for it from the get go, just want to see it in small doses and of it appears like it can be successful then I'd love to see more of it.

If it's a complete disaster then abandon it and never try it again

Oh, I can see that in play some...especially in the last seconds of a close game "IF" Nojel gets his stroke down. Many of the potential combinations will be seen in practice and we may never see them...others we might in preseason..and then a slow deletion of the combinations into what Matt thinks is the best combo on D and O...

 

[*4purdue*]

When HAARMS is on the bench

Interested to see how this small ball lineup does:

Wheeler
Eastern

2 of
Sasha / Hunter / Cline

Carsen

If nothing else, it would be a really fun lineup watch get up and down in transition

Would probably drill a bunch of 3s on offense

I think you would see:

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
NE 3
AW 4
EB 5

 

[Mgkcbb]

I think you would see:

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
NE 3
AW 4
EB 5

That's possible, just leery of EB overall. If he has high bball IQ and doesn't take a lot of unnecessary shots, I agree he could make this work.

 

[tjreese]

possible

I think you would see:

Carsen 1
Hunter 2
NE 3
AW 4
EB 5

possible try as well. I'm not sure that NE at a 3 provides as much as NE at a 1 surrounded by shooters leaving him the lane...as opposed to people sagging off him and on focusing on the ball. Course we don't know what Purdue will get after a summer of shooting for Nojel. All this is wild speculation since none of us (at least me anyway) know what the status of each player will be in Oct/Nov

 

[*4purdue*]

possible

possible try as well. I'm not sure that NE at a 3 provides as much as NE at a 1 surrounded by shooters leaving him the lane...as opposed to people sagging off him and on focusing on the ball. Course we don't know what Purdue will get after a summer of shooting for Nojel. All this is wild speculation since none of us (at least me anyway) know what the status of each player will be in Oct/Nov

NE has the ability to get put backs. He had several nice ones this year. I like him at the 3 to get the garbage baskets when Hunter and Carsen miss. I also want the ball in the hands of my best player, which is why I put Carsen at the 1... He has very similar skill set as Brunson and that worked out pretty well for Nova.

 

[northside100]

Regardless of whether he has or not before, surely most everyone is at least intrigued enough to want to see a lineup of

Wheeler
Eastern
Cline
Hunter
Carsen

I'm not advocating for it from the get go, just want to see it in small doses and of it appears like it can be successful then I'd love to see more of it.

If it's a complete disaster then abandon it and never try it again

I’d challenge your ‘most everyone’ assertion, I have zero interest in seeing that lineup.

 

[tjreese]

NE has the ability to get put backs. He had several nice ones this year. I like him at the 3 to get the garbage baskets when Hunter and Carsen miss. I also want the ball in the hands of my best player, which is why I put Carsen at the 1... He has very similar skill set as Brunson and that worked out pretty well for Nova.

Carsen is the best player AND Nojel can rebound...both are true. Brunson has always been a 1 and Carsen has never been a 1. That is not to say Carsen couldn't be a 1. However, if you move Carsen to the the one does he lower his scoring ability to involve others or does he not involve the other four as much? Who guards Nojel when he doesn't have the ball other than to put a body on him to keep him away from the boards? IF not guarding Nojel away from the ball, what is the defender doing?

The difference is in the expectations with the priorities of the person that has the ball in his hands the most. Perhaps the difference is similar in football to an Antwaan Randle El running and passing versus a Drew Brees that almost always passed or handed off the ball to others...or maybe more like a Yogi getting his and being the main cog for offense as opposed to a previous Purdue guard that is more of a distributor. Then you have to wonder if your offensive approach hinders your defensive positioning for quick change of possessions since the offense has a bearing on more than the offense due to court balance and such.

Anyway, I understand why people would want Nojel as a three, I just think the potential is much greater as a 1...but could change that if he develops a deadly stroke enough to go to a three above and beyond playing the 1.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

When did CMP go ‘small’ when AJ and Haas plyed together?

14-15: AJ and Haas accounted for a combined average of 38.9 mpg. Taylor also averaged 7 mpg.
15-16: Both averaged the exact amount of mpg as the previous year with Taylor playing in 13 games for 4.6 mpg.

With that and the fact I watched, recorded, and rewatched most games over the last 7-8 years, I simply don’t remember a time when those two were off the floor at once. You may be thinking to Biggie’s second year when he started at the 5 and Haas only started 15 games. In that case, there were no other real options at the 5 with Taylor being injured. Basil played some mop-up 5 minutes but that is it.

There was a game at Ass Hall where he moved Biggie to the 5 and Vince to the 4 late in the game... but don’t remember which year that was.

 

[since1980]

I think a lineup we see a lot is:
Carsen
Nojel
Cline
Wheeler
Boudreaux

Boudreaux mentioned in the video on the front page that Painter has talked to him about playing the 5 and stretching the floor. That is probably your best offensive lineup in terms of floor spacing/shooting and opening up driving lanes (You can swap in Hunter for Cline as well if Hunter shows he can shoot well). Just a matter of matchups defensively.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Better chance of Painter playing zone than “small ball”.....u don’t recruit the players he has to go small....just saying.

Bourdreax mentioned that Painter has told him he will be playing small ball 5.

 

[BoilerIron]

When Haarms is on the bench, we will be in small ball mode. Wheeler, Evan, and Haarms will get most of the minutes at the 4/5 spot. Williams or Grady may get like 5 min/gm, but the former 3 will get the majority of the minutes.

If Dow redshirts (he probably will), any lineup without Haarms is a "small ball" lineup.

 

[Wolegib]

I could also see a mixture of small ball and big ball. I've seen teams - maybe even Purdue - play with 4 guards and a center. this would give you 4 perimeter players and a guy in the middle to grab the misses. A line-up like this could be implemented if you're behind and trying to score fast. it is also dependent on the big guy being able to throw an accurate and deep outlet pass and our guards being able to run for break away buckets. it also is great for implementing a full court press.

So you could have
Edwards
Eastern
Cline
Hunter
Haarms

 

[Wolegib]

Bourdreax mentioned that Painter has told him he will be playing small ball 5.

I believe that could mean Evan is going to definitely be a starter, and is also going to see additional time at center. Evan could end up as our #2 scoring option.

Didn't grady spend time at the 5 for a couple of minutes in a game or two?

 

[northside100]

When Haarms is on the bench, we will be in small ball mode. Wheeler, Evan, and Haarms will get most of the minutes at the 4/5 spot. Williams or Grady may get like 5 min/gm, but the former 3 will get the majority of the minutes.

If Dow redshirts (he probably will), any lineup without Haarms is a "small ball" lineup.

What leads you to think Dow redshirts and they play small? Just curious. You may be right but my guess is that is that he comes in more prepared than people him give him credit for and plays 10 to 15 min a game as the #2 center. Just a guess.

 

[BoilerIron]

What leads you to think Dow redshirts and they play small? Just curious. You may be right but my guess is that is that he comes in more prepared than people him give him credit for and plays 10 to 15 min a game as the #2 center. Just a guess.

Because everything we have ever heard is that he is not ready, and will likely need a year.

Haarms isn't going to play 40 min/gm.

When Haarms is out the next tallest players are Wheeler, Evan, and Williams (6,9", 6'8", 6'8"). That would be going small no matter which one is on the court.

 

[Wolegib]

I still believe Dow will play rather than redshirt. I think all this talk about him not being ready to play is hog wash. I doubt he's ready to start or be a key contributor, and he's probably not close to his ceiling. But at the same time, he's probably better than half of the other division 1 centers who are actually playing.

I remember when Joe Barry Carrol first came to Purdue. Sure, he had a lot of bad games that first year, but you could see the potential.
I doubt Dow will be an offensive weapon, but he should be good for a triple double of 5 rebounds, 3 blocks and 5 fouls a game. I think he could easily match the numbers Haarms put up last year. .

 

[Wolegib]

and we could have a new financial cheer ! the Dow's UP !

 

[Fansince72]

I'm with you Wole, I see no reason to red shirt Dow . We have to have him available in case someone gets hurt or sick.