Scrimmage.

PurdueDave

True Freshman
Jan 22, 2005
747
887
93
The issue is not that he recruited either...the issue was that they could not play together, so, one of Purdue's best players was always out of the game. In their case, it was because they played the same position ultimately. That, however, is not the case with Edey, Furst and Trey...Furst can play the 4...Trey can play the 3...there are ways to have them on the floor...neither should be sacrificing minutes just because Zach is getting the majority of them (and should be).

You don't generally recruit two guys to play the same position in a class, just in case one does not work out or in hopes that one will.

If Furst can't get on the floor because Zach is there...that does not bode well, for him, and, potentially for Purdue. If Trey can't either, it is even more of an issue, as, those two guys are two of the highest-rated recruits that Painter has had, and, both are very talented players...too good for that matter to not be playing, and, playing a lot.
You're right, you don't usually recruit 2 guys for the same position in the same class, but you do recruit them every other or every 3rd class. If they end up being your 2 best players in the overlap years, that's a good thing - not something to complain about.
 

FirstDownB

All-American
Oct 12, 2015
9,754
13,857
113
The position allocation question is reasonable, but if you follow Purdue recruiting you know that 1) Painter had just signed Morton and Ivey the class before, so it made sense that a combo guard was not a priority and 2) of the handful of players they recruited they missed out on the Christie kid to MSU and on Wesley, who ended up at Notre Dame, and both are out of CBB at this point anyway. Anyone they could have realistically signed by the time they realized Ivey might leave early likely wouldn't be better than Loyer at the point anyway.

It actually reinforces the point that you need to overstock at a position because you never know when a player will wash out or leave early.
The fact that he was recruiting Christie and Wesley supports the position that a combo guard was an important piece of that class. Not having a Plan C in 2021 and then losing both Thompson and Hunter a year later and then whiffing on top transfer targets was a very
poor succession of events.

I’m sure Loyer will be a fine player, but his skill set is more Newman than Smith. I doubt he will ever fit the point/combo guard mold. Morton is a point guard on offense, wing on defense.

This team will be fine, ok. Could have been special. Mu guess is 2023 might actually be special for this reason even with the loss of Zach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAG10

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
I know TKR did not come to Purdue with the idea of being "willing to wait" for anything, and, I have no idea how it plays out obviously, but, my guess is that if he is playing 15 mpg or less, that, he may not be thrilled about that...who knows whether that is truly the case or what it would even mean if it were, but, I am confident that he did not come to Purdue with the idea of not getting meaningful minutes or being impactful until year 3 (and, even then, if Zach returns...and I believe that he will (assuming Purdue at some point between now and then does actually figure out NIL), it won't be year 3 potentially even).

My guess is that Furst won't love the idea of being a backup for 2 more years either.

Even if both were ok, Purdue is not better as a result...Purdue is not better with those guys sitting on the bench..to your point, they are indeed wasting talent.

I have no idea what Trey will do this year, but, I know that coming in and out of HS, he was a better player with a better skill set than either Mason or Caleb...those guys have both had some success...no reason to think that Trey will not, but, if he is only playing 15 mpg, and, doing so simply because he happens to play the same position...that j ust does not make sense...for him, or, for Purdue.

Again, if Morton is playing more simply because he is a more traditional 3 arguably, despite not being an actual better player...it does not make sense...and, while it is not Trey's best or most natural position, if it means getting him on the floor rather than sitting next to the HC on the bench...that does make sense.
I'm not following you. How does playing someone at a position where they can't guard the guy in front of them or take advantage of their offensive strengths help the team? Ethan is better at guarding the 3 spot, is a better shooter and a better passer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldboiler52

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
The fact that he was recruiting Christie and Wesley supports the position that a combo guard was an important piece of that class. Not having a Plan C in 2021 and then losing both Thompson and Hunter a year later and then whiffing on top transfer targets was a very
poor succession of events.

I’m sure Loyer will be a fine player, but his skill set is more Newman than Smith. I doubt he will ever fit the point/combo guard mold. Morton is a point guard on offense, wing on defense.

This team will be fine, ok. Could have been special. Mu guess is 2023 might actually be special for this reason even with the loss of Zach.
Agree that not landing their top recruits and losing Ivy was not ideal.

Recruiting those two absolutely does not mean it was a priority. Look at the recruiting history and who they've offered. They recruit top players in every class and they backed off of Wesley as he was seen to be duplicative of Ivey. If you want Purdue to be a NC or Kansas that has a line of top 50 guys lined up when one guy falls through you're going to be disappointed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldboiler52

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,493
113
I'm not following you. How does playing someone at a position where they can't guard the guy in front of them or take advantage of their offensive strengths help the team? Ethan is better at guarding the 3 spot, is a better shooter and a better passer.
Morton provides nothing at the offensive end, and, is not near good enough defensively to hide that fact...he is better perhaps at guarding the 3 than Trey may be, but, Trey is far superior at the offensive end and from a rebounding standpoint as well.

I am not saying that Trey needs to play 25 minutes a game at the 3, or, that even most of his minutes should be at the 3, but, playing him at the 3 and having him on the floor beats him sitting on the bench and watching.

Edey is not going to be able to guard any number of guys...my guess is that won't matter.

Trey has the ability to score...from behind the arc, mid-range or in the post...he is better in the post just because he has always played in the post, but, he can score from anywhere.

Like say, I will just never buy into it is better for Purdue to have its best players sitting on the bench simply because it is not a guy's primary position vs it being a lesser player's one.

Purdue's strength is its front court...like say, Furst losing minutes because he switched positions does not make a ton of sense...Trey losing minutes because he shares a position with two other guys does not make a ton of sense.

Tre was limited, Zach more so....not a lot that could have been done (although there were some things that could have...gasp at the thought of maybe playing a zone so as to have them on the floor together if the concern was apparently defense for Tre)...not the case with the versatility that Furst and Trey have.

We will obviously see what happens...no doubt what Edey's role is/will be...interested to see what Furst's and Trey's ultimately are, and, do think it is a concern if those guys are not getting quality minutes given their talent. Last year, Ivey was a wild card and provided scoring...they don't have that luxury this year, and, they have two ultra-talented players in Furst and Kaufman-Renn that should have more time on the floor than off of it.
 

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
Like say, I will just never buy into it is better for Purdue to have its best players sitting on the bench simply because it is not a guy's primary position vs it being a lesser player's one.
I agree that the strength of the team is the front court. You're posting so many words, but the statement above is really the gist of your argument and you're just wrong. If that were true you'd probably have Zach, Caleb, Mason and Tre all out there at the same time because they're likely four of Purdue's 'best' players.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,493
113
I agree that the strength of the team is the front court. You're posting so many words, but the statement above is really the gist of your argument and you're just wrong. If that were true you'd probably have Zach, Caleb, Mason and Tre all out there at the same time because they're likely four of Purdue's 'best' players.
And, that they can't all be out there, 3 of the 4 should be out there the vast majority of the time...that is ultimately my point and thought.

And, you are right...I probably wasted way too many words on boiling it down to that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SCBoiler1

SCBoiler1

Redshirt Freshman
Feb 10, 2014
1,305
1,848
113
I agree that the strength of the team is the front court. You're posting so many words, but the statement above is really the gist of your argument and you're just wrong. If that were true you'd probably have Zach, Caleb, Mason and Tre all out there at the same time because they're likely four of Purdue's 'best' players.
Kind of "strawman" argument. I haven't seen anyone suggest they all play together at the same time. In fact I don't think anyone is suggesting these guys even consume all of the minutes at the 3. I think the idea is that if Gillis, Furst or TKR can play some minutes at the three we'll be able to get our best 4 players on the court 25 to 30 minutes.

If we have those 4 guys playing just the 4 and 5, we're going to end up with guys like Furst and TKR playing less minutes than Morton, Jenkins and/or Loyer. I just don't see how that is a good thing.
 

SCBoiler1

Redshirt Freshman
Feb 10, 2014
1,305
1,848
113
So our starting 5 is
Smith
Newman
Morton
Gillis (?)
Edey
Teams and coaches set goals at the beginning of the year. If you were Painter what would your realistic goal be for this team? That's different than what you predict will happen.

I'll start. I believe a realistic goal would be to win a B1G championship and be a top 4 seed in the tourney. I predict we'll be between 4-6 in the B1G and be 7 or 8 seed in the tourney.

You might be right on the lineup above but I don't see how this lineup competes for a B1G championship even if all 5 guys play to their upside potential. It might be good enough to be in the top 4 or 5 in B1G though.

Now take a lineup that looks like this:
Smith
Newman
Gillis
TKR
Edey

Furst backs up the 4 and 5. Loyer is primary backup at the 2 and 3, Morton backs up Smith and Jenkins and Heide fill in were needed.

There are a lot more unknowns with the lineup I threw out there but to me there is a lot more upside to this lineup. It may not work, but I'd like to see us try it at the beginning of the year and adjust if it doesn't, instead of settling on a lineup that we all know is unlikely to compete for a B1G championship.
 

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
And, that they can't all be out there, 3 of the 4 should be out there the vast majority of the time...that is ultimately my point and thought.

And, you are right...I probably wasted way too many words on boiling it down to that.
I share your concern and frustration that they can’t all be out there. I hope that the back court is better than expected.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Schnelk and DAG10

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
Kind of "strawman" argument. I haven't seen anyone suggest they all play together at the same time. In fact I don't think anyone is suggesting these guys even consume all of the minutes at the 3. I think the idea is that if Gillis, Furst or TKR can play some minutes at the three we'll be able to get our best 4 players on the court 25 to 30 minutes.

If we have those 4 guys playing just the 4 and 5, we're going to end up with guys like Furst and TKR playing less minutes than Morton, Jenkins and/or Loyer. I just don't see how that is a good thing.
Completely understand the idea and am sympathetic, I'd like to see those four get as many minutes as possible as well. The problem is that my statement about playing all four together isn't a strawman, it's an illustrative analogy. Meaning that you wouldn't play all four together because you need complimentary skills from the other positions and you'd struggle to defend. That's exactly the concern with playing any of those guys at the 3.

I love Mason's game and agree that out of the three (Mason, Tre, Caleb), he'd have the best chance of playing some 3 given that Caleb was pulled at times last year because he struggled to stay in front of more mobile 4's and Tre is reported to be at this point 'closer to being a 5 than a 3'. The problem I see is that Mason is not a primary ball handler, he's not going to break anyone down off the dribble and he's going to be in a tough spot defensively guarding most 3's. In other words, the things you need from that position just don't play to his strengths. I agree that if Ethan and Newman struggle at that spot you may be forced to give Mason a look, but listening to Painter interviews he thinks they'll both be very good and I tend to believe coach, he very rarely blows smoke.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FirstDownB

FirstDownB

All-American
Oct 12, 2015
9,754
13,857
113
Teams and coaches set goals at the beginning of the year. If you were Painter what would your realistic goal be for this team? That's different than what you predict will happen.

I'll start. I believe a realistic goal would be to win a B1G championship and be a top 4 seed in the tourney. I predict we'll be between 4-6 in the B1G and be 7 or 8 seed in the tourney.

You might be right on the lineup above but I don't see how this lineup competes for a B1G championship even if all 5 guys play to their upside potential. It might be good enough to be in the top 4 or 5 in B1G though.

Now take a lineup that looks like this:
Smith
Newman
Gillis
TKR
Edey

Furst backs up the 4 and 5. Loyer is primary backup at the 2 and 3, Morton backs up Smith and Jenkins and Heide fill in were needed.

There are a lot more unknowns with the lineup I threw out there but to me there is a lot more upside to this lineup. It may not work, but I'd like to see us try it at the beginning of the year and adjust if it doesn't, instead of settling on a lineup that we all know is unlikely to compete for a B1G championship.
Teams with quick guards would feast against that lineup. And teams that know how to press. When I see lineups like this proposed, I think people discount skills such as handling the basketball, stopping dribble penetration, and ability to switch defensively. It's not all just about making shots and finishing the play.
 

Wolegib

All-American
May 23, 2013
10,058
5,821
113
Some food for thought. When Haas played at Purdue, he could have been the center of our offense. He could have easily scored 20+ points a game if we had just fed him the ball. But he wasn’t our main man. He was a complementary player.

people here are suggesting Purdue’s offense will revolve around Edey and the other players will be complementary to him.

what if………

what if Edey became like Haas and every other Purdue center and became a complementary player?

what if TKR became the featured #1 offense option much like BIG Dog, Biggie, Ivey and Edwards? And Edey supported him?

what if Gillis became a. 6th man?

there are plenty of freshman and sophomores who are the stars of their team. Who is to say TKR cannot be the star this year?

Tre took a step backwards in minutes and role to allow Edey into our lineup. Who is to say Edey will not also take a step backwards? I can’t see Edey going to the NBA early. I also can’t really see Edey becoming Purdue’s main scoring option.

TKR is a scoring machine. That’s what he excels at. Maybe like with Ivey and Carsen, Purdue’s offense will not revolve around their center, and a perimeter player will emerge as the #1 player.

I will echo a previous comment. TKR didn’t come to Purdue to just sit on the bench and watch and be a backup to anybody for 3-4 years. If he spends another year as a backup, it will most likely be his last year at Purdue!
 

SCBoiler1

Redshirt Freshman
Feb 10, 2014
1,305
1,848
113
Teams with quick guards would feast against that lineup. And teams that know how to press. When I see lineups like this proposed, I think people discount skills such as handling the basketball, stopping dribble penetration, and ability to switch defensively. It's not all just about making shots and finishing the play.
Why do we always have to play to the other teams strength? If our strength is our front court make them adapt to us. Play three small guards against the lineup I suggested and see how they defend us and rebound, We aren't going to be the only team without three quick guards on the court. If Morton was playing the three for another team do you think he would be lighting us up if he were being guarded by Gillis or TKR?

We can adjust based on the opponent. If someone is killing us with their guard play, we can sub in someone who is a little quicker although with this team I don't know who that person would be, which is part of the problem
 

Roeder

Junior
Jun 21, 2007
2,186
3,048
113
YOu have your opinion and I have mine.

In your defense Loyer is a bucket. He's not the typical Purdue shooter in the Sasha/Cline mold and people are automatically throwing him in that box. He is a combo that can make plays off the dribble, and while not athletic, has craftiness to get his shot off the dribble. He was All Peach Jam in AAU which says something IMO. He is in no way shape or form Etwaun Moore, but he has that type of YMCA savvy as a scorer if that makes sense.

No he is a Freshman, so we'll see how he adjusts physically, but I think the opportunity for minutes and shots will be there for him on this team.
 

PurdueDave

True Freshman
Jan 22, 2005
747
887
93
Why do we always have to play to the other teams strength? If our strength is our front court make them adapt to us. Play three small guards against the lineup I suggested and see how they defend us and rebound, We aren't going to be the only team without three quick guards on the court. If Morton was playing the three for another team do you think he would be lighting us up if he were being guarded by Gillis or TKR?

We can adjust based on the opponent. If someone is killing us with their guard play, we can sub in someone who is a little quicker although with this team I don't know who that person would be, which is part of the problem
Painter will have plenty of opportunity to see if TKR or Gillis can guard the 3 by letting them try it against Newman and Morton in practice. If they show they can do it, we'll likely see it in games too. If not, they'll be playing the 4.
 

oldboiler52

True Freshman
Jan 5, 2012
568
2,415
93
Well, it would help if he recruited better guards. IMO our top four players are at the 4 and 5 position. So we're likely going to have two of our better players on the bench at all times.
Recruit better guards? Just had a lottery pick leave two years early and landed Indiana's two best guards Mr.BB and the runner up. Myles Colvin is the odds-on favorite for Mr.BB this year and Kanon Catching the year after him. If there is a better freshman point guard than Smith, I haven't seen him.
 

oldboiler52

True Freshman
Jan 5, 2012
568
2,415
93
Well you asked. Maybe it is unrealistic, but I have also been following some in depth stuff from guys who have been watching him. I can ALWAYS admit if I am wrong. I have no problem with that at all.
I agree 12-14 sounds about right because he can play 1-3 and is the backup PG as well.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
Recruit better guards? Just had a lottery pick leave two years early and landed Indiana's two best guards Mr.BB and the runner up. Myles Colvin is the odds-on favorite for Mr.BB this year and Kanon Catching the year after him. If there is a better freshman point guard than Smith, I haven't seen him.
You think Smith is the best freshman PG in the country?
 

oldboiler52

True Freshman
Jan 5, 2012
568
2,415
93
In your defense Loyer is a bucket. He's not the typical Purdue shooter in the Sasha/Cline mold and people are automatically throwing him in that box. He is a combo that can make plays off the dribble, and while not athletic, has craftiness to get his shot off the dribble. He was All Peach Jam in AAU which says something IMO. He is in no way shape or form Etwaun Moore, but he has that type of YMCA savvy as a scorer if that makes sense.

No he is a Freshman, so we'll see how he adjusts physically, but I think the opportunity for minutes and shots will be there for him on this team.
You do know his father is a veteran NBA coach ( Detroit Pistons HC) currently the director of scouting for the L.A Clippers. Kid has been coached up his entire life. Not your average freshman IMO.
 

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
Some food for thought. When Haas played at Purdue, he could have been the center of our offense. He could have easily scored 20+ points a game if we had just fed him the ball. But he wasn’t our main man. He was a complementary player.

people here are suggesting Purdue’s offense will revolve around Edey and the other players will be complementary to him.

what if………

what if Edey became like Haas and every other Purdue center and became a complementary player?

what if TKR became the featured #1 offense option much like BIG Dog, Biggie, Ivey and Edwards? And Edey supported him?

what if Gillis became a. 6th man?

there are plenty of freshman and sophomores who are the stars of their team. Who is to say TKR cannot be the star this year?

Tre took a step backwards in minutes and role to allow Edey into our lineup. Who is to say Edey will not also take a step backwards? I can’t see Edey going to the NBA early. I also can’t really see Edey becoming Purdue’s main scoring option.

TKR is a scoring machine. That’s what he excels at. Maybe like with Ivey and Carsen, Purdue’s offense will not revolve around their center, and a perimeter player will emerge as the #1 player.

I will echo a previous comment. TKR didn’t come to Purdue to just sit on the bench and watch and be a backup to anybody for 3-4 years. If he spends another year as a backup, it will most likely be his last year at Purdue!
I don't even know where to start with that post.

Zach was an honorable mention AA as a sophomore with very little experience and is a preseason AA. I liked Haas a lot, but he was was never even all conference. AJH was absolutely the focus of the offense as a center, as was Biggie, who was absolutely a center as a sophomore.

TKR may be great but he has never played a college game. Absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible to suggest that if he doesn't start he's likely to transfer.
 

boilerball2021

Redshirt Freshman
Jul 29, 2021
1,433
894
113
For this team yes. We need someone to get the ball to Zach not score 20 points per game. It's Zach's team and all the other players must accept that and adjust their games accordingly. IMO Loyer and Smith are made for the task.
You didn’t say for this team before. You just said there wasn’t a better freshman PG in the country.
 

oldboiler52

True Freshman
Jan 5, 2012
568
2,415
93
Some food for thought. When Haas played at Purdue, he could have been the center of our offense. He could have easily scored 20+ points a game if we had just fed him the ball. But he wasn’t our main man. He was a complementary player.

people here are suggesting Purdue’s offense will revolve around Edey and the other players will be complementary to him.

what if………

what if Edey became like Haas and every other Purdue center and became a complementary player?

what if TKR became the featured #1 offense option much like BIG Dog, Biggie, Ivey and Edwards? And Edey supported him?

what if Gillis became a. 6th man?

there are plenty of freshman and sophomores who are the stars of their team. Who is to say TKR cannot be the star this year?

Tre took a step backwards in minutes and role to allow Edey into our lineup. Who is to say Edey will not also take a step backwards? I can’t see Edey going to the NBA early. I also can’t really see Edey becoming Purdue’s main scoring option.

TKR is a scoring machine. That’s what he excels at. Maybe like with Ivey and Carsen, Purdue’s offense will not revolve around their center, and a perimeter player will emerge as the #1 player.

I will echo a previous comment. TKR didn’t come to Purdue to just sit on the bench and watch and be a backup to anybody for 3-4 years. If he spends another year as a backup, it will most likely be his last year at Purdue!
I disagree with basically everything you said. First of all Zach was slotted to be a late first round pick. He came back because he is convinced, he will go higher next year. Second Painter has built this year's team around Zach no way he throws away months of planning and practices mid-season because someone else steps up. If TKR doesn't get minutes, it will be that he hasn't earned them. As for him leaving unless the players in front of him are first round lottery picks why leave? Many on here called for Newman to leave because the #5 pick in the draft was getting the lion's share of minutes running from high level competition is not exactly a resume builder for the NBA IMO. As for the Haas comments not sure what's with them. Trevion didn't step back and give Edey his minutes Zach took them. Only a fool doesn't put his best players on the court and Painter is no fool! Anyone who thinks Zach will come back will be disappointed. Some of your post are spot on this one has me missing my nap and that is a bridge to far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schnelk and mathboy

johnboiler123

True Freshman
Jul 23, 2020
726
928
93
For this team yes. We need someone to get the ball to Zach not score 20 points per game. It's Zach's team and all the other players must accept that and adjust their games accordingly. IMO Loyer and Smith are made for the task.
This line of thinking is why we haven't been to a final four in over 40 years. Having a massive center as the main piece of our offense will give us a high floor during the regular season, but always gets us bounced early in the tournament. Would much rather have a dynamic point guard leading our offense in scoring than a back to the basket center.
 

Wolegib

All-American
May 23, 2013
10,058
5,821
113
I don't even know where to start with that post.

Zach was an honorable mention AA as a sophomore with very little experience and is a preseason AA. I liked Haas a lot, but he was was never even all conference. AJH was absolutely the focus of the offense as a center, as was Biggie, who was absolutely a center as a sophomore.

TKR may be great but he has never played a college game. Absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible to suggest that if he doesn't start he's likely to transfer.
Tre was all big 10 before his final year. He adapted his role! He could have been made the focal point of our offense, but he wasn’t. Haas proved many times he could score at will against anybody, but he was never the center of our offense either! JJ could score but was never the Center of our offense. The same goes for Hammond! Looking back at Painter’s history, he’s had a lot of quality big men, but other than Biggie, his #1 scoring option was never his big man.

I don’t want to hear about players who are preseason all Americans so they must be the focus . Tre was preseason everything too as were Haas, Hammond JJJ and all the rest! Preseason means didly. Purdue was a preseason final 4 prediction too !

and I’m being realistic about tKr! There are many top 50 players who started as freshmen and many who didn’t. And the reality is many of those players. That didn’t start left their respective teams via the portal. Purdue has both gained and lost players via the portal. Tkr is a very talented player and he was a hard fought recruiting battle. Either the knowledge that Furst would also be on our team, painter had to make some sort of promise to him. I’m just saying if he is sitting on our bench, he will looking elsewhere, because neither Furst or Edey is leaving early unless they transfer!
 

mathboy

All-American
Feb 4, 2004
10,704
10,665
113
Michigan
I'm not sure why I keep seeing this mantra of "If he doesn't start, he will transfer". Sorry, but really good teams are built with good players, really good players, coming off the bench. I want to see Purdue continue and improve its reputation of being a really good team. I think if you look across the bench at Kansas, North Carolina, or Kentucky, you will find a heck of a lot of very good players riding the bench, but ready to jump in if needed. You don't see them transferring elsewhere very often.
 

SCBoiler1

Redshirt Freshman
Feb 10, 2014
1,305
1,848
113
I agree 12-14 sounds about right because he can play 1-3 and is the backup PG as well.
The only freshmen to score over 12 points a game in Painter's tenure is Moore at 12.9 ppg. No other freshman has scored more than 12. Not Carsen, not Ivey, not Swanigan, not Edey, not Vince, not Hummel, not Hammons, not anybody.

Can you name another freshman not named Glenn Robinson or Russell Cross who scored 14 points per game as a freshmen for Purdue since let's say 1970?

.
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,493
113
The only freshmen to score over 12 points a game in Painter's tenure is Moore at 12.9 ppg. No other freshman has scored more than 12. Not Carsen, not Ivey, not Swanigan, not Edey, not Vince, not Hummel, not Hammons, not anybody.

Can you name another freshman not named Glenn Robinson or Russell Cross who scored 14 points per game as a freshmen for Purdue since let's say 1970?

.
There is some great degree of disillusion at times on here.

I like Loyer and I love Smith...for what they did in HS...the idea that somehow Purdue found two guys that everybody else in American missed on is simply crazy.

Both are talented...both may have tremendous careers at Purdue, but, neither is an All-American (nor was in HS...unlike virtually everyone else that you cited).
 

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,493
113
I disagree with basically everything you said. First of all Zach was slotted to be a late first round pick. He came back because he is convinced, he will go higher next year. Second Painter has built this year's team around Zach no way he throws away months of planning and practices mid-season because someone else steps up. If TKR doesn't get minutes, it will be that he hasn't earned them. As for him leaving unless the players in front of him are first round lottery picks why leave? Many on here called for Newman to leave because the #5 pick in the draft was getting the lion's share of minutes running from high level competition is not exactly a resume builder for the NBA IMO. As for the Haas comments not sure what's with them. Trevion didn't step back and give Edey his minutes Zach took them. Only a fool doesn't put his best players on the court and Painter is no fool! Anyone who thinks Zach will come back will be disappointed. Some of your post are spot on this one has me missing my nap and that is a bridge to far.
Cockburn is not even in the league...the idea that Zach will be a first-round pick is hard to reconcile as such...would not have been this past year, unlikely to be next year, and, probably more unlikely even to follow. A great and dominant College player...just don't see him ever being an impactful NBA guy, or, seen as such.

Your next point (about being a fool) runs contrary to what much of the thread has been about, as, it centered on genuinely getting the best players on the floor and seeing the most minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChoiceBeef

DAG10

All-American
Nov 2, 2018
5,709
8,493
113
The only freshmen to score over 12 points a game in Painter's tenure is Moore at 12.9 ppg. No other freshman has scored more than 12. Not Carsen, not Ivey, not Swanigan, not Edey, not Vince, not Hummel, not Hammons, not anybody.

Can you name another freshman not named Glenn Robinson or Russell Cross who scored 14 points per game as a freshmen for Purdue since let's say 1970?

.
Only candidates that come to mind quickly...Troy Lewis? Melvin McCants?
 

HoosierfanJM

Sophomore
Feb 7, 2013
1,582
1,263
113
Recruit better guards? Just had a lottery pick leave two years early and landed Indiana's two best guards Mr.BB and the runner up. Myles Colvin is the odds-on favorite for Mr.BB this year and Kanon Catching the year after him. If there is a better freshman point guard than Smith, I haven't seen him.
Have you seen Cason Wallace, Jalen Hood-Schifino, Arterio Morris, Skyy Clark, Anthony Black, Jaden Bailey, Tyrese Proctor, or Bruce Thornton (to start with)?
 

tjreese

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 27, 2008
21,095
18,254
113
I would agree if the had someone that was a great 3-point shooter, cutter and post-entry passer to put on the floor at the 4...but, they don't...and they did not a year ago either, and, it genuinely sucked to have one of the two/three best players ALWAYS sitting on the bench.

I agree in general that it may be more than just a case of having your 5 best players on the floor, but, it should not be a lot different than that barring something REALLY unique.

Edey will absolutely be the focal point of the offense, but, that Furst (one of the better players) will not start in that he will be backing Edey up largely, or Trey may play less...solely because Edey will be the focal point does not bode well for Purdue...those guys are too good to be sitting on the bench or for Purdue to not taking advantage of what they offer as well.

ivey's sheer ability allowed for Purdue to be able to survive still with one of its best players on the bench at all times...this team does not have a player of that regard to allow for that.

Purdue/Painter has to figure out a way to be able to have guys on the floor that he was not able to with Williams...Trey is more skilled and can do more things, so, it should not be the issue that it was with Tre.
I never saw the scrimmage and as long as we are guessing based upon that scrimmage or last year…or comments made about certain players, I think I like the following knowing that Matt will not play 10 players deep into the season. Therefore, there will be some that will be starters that also share a decent amount of minutes with those coming off the bench. We also know that Matt wants those coming off the bench to be productive with the players out on the court. That said, I “think” I like Zach/Mason together and Caleb/Trey paired even though I know all three of those will play with Zach some. Baden’s actual effect would possibly be amplified with Caleb/Trey, but he will also be needed with Zach and be more of a perimeter shooter when needed with Zach and maybe more of a driver with Caleb/Trey.

Braden - Jenkins
Fletcher - Morton
Brandon - Heide/Waddell
Mason - Caleb/Trey
Zach - Caleb/Trey

Jenkins and Morton share combo 1/2 minutes and Morton has a shot to drive with this unit and be a playmaker. Now we know none of this will be as clean as just listing the names as best guesses and we may be surprised with what we see, but again it is my “guess” in the dark. Got a low post surrounded by shooters and then have two fours opening up the court for some drives as well in the next group.
 

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
Cockburn is not even in the league...the idea that Zach will be a first-round pick is hard to reconcile as such...would not have been this past year, unlikely to be next year, and, probably more unlikely even to follow. A great and dominant College player...just don't see him ever being an impactful NBA guy, or, seen as such.

Your next point (about being a fool) runs contrary to what much of the thread has been about, as, it centered on genuinely getting the best players on the floor and seeing the most minutes.
I think Zach is a better pro prospect than Kofi, much longer, more skilled, but agree, I have a hard time seeing Zach as a first round draft pick. I suspect Purdue has a shot to get him back for his senior year if they put together a good NIL package.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zaphod_B and DAG10

northside100

All-American
Gold Member
Aug 11, 2001
5,017
4,126
113
I never saw the scrimmage and as long as we are guessing based upon that scrimmage or last year…or comments made about certain players, I think I like the following knowing that Matt will not play 10 players deep into the season. Therefore, there will be some that will be starters that also share a decent amount of minutes with those coming off the bench. We also know that Matt wants those coming off the bench to be productive with the players out on the court. That said, I “think” I like Zach/Mason together and Caleb/Trey paired even though I know all three of those will play with Zach some. Baden’s actual effect would possibly be amplified with Caleb/Trey, but he will also be needed with Zach and be more of a perimeter shooter when needed with Zach and maybe more of a driver with Caleb/Trey.

Braden - Jenkins
Fletcher - Morton
Brandon - Heide/Waddell
Mason - Caleb/Trey
Zach - Caleb/Trey

Jenkins and Morton share combo 1/2 minutes and Morton has a shot to drive with this unit and be a playmaker. Now we know none of this will be as clean as just listing the names as best guesses and we may be surprised with what we see, but again it is my “guess” in the dark. Got a low post surrounded by shooters and then have two fours opening up the court for some drives as well in the next group.
Morton will start. If Loyer starts it's in place of Brandon. Not sure it matters all that much though, they're all going to play (with the possible exceptions of Heide and Waddell).
 

PurdueDave

True Freshman
Jan 22, 2005
747
887
93
Morton will start. If Loyer starts it's in place of Brandon. Not sure it matters all that much though, they're all going to play (with the possible exceptions of Heide and Waddell).
I think you're correct, but if Fletcher comes in and averages in double figures, he'll probably get the starting job. That would be awesome!
 
  • Like
Reactions: northside100
Aug 14, 2008
3,138
3,715
113
I think Zach is a better pro prospect than Kofi, much longer, more skilled, but agree, I have a hard time seeing Zach as a first round draft pick. I suspect Purdue has a shot to get him back for his senior year if they put together a good NIL package.
I was looking at nbadraft.net. Edey is not listed on either the 2023 or 2024 mock drafts. He's going to have to develop a serviceable outside shot and be more of a defensive presence before he goes anywhere, imo. I hope he does improve these 2 aspects to his game as that's great for Purdue. He's got a lot of work to do based on what I saw at the end of last year.

The notion that this is absolutely his last year before going pro is borderline absurd at this point in time.
 
Last edited: