Scrimmage box score
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16 for 18, wow, pretty dominant. Hope the refs let him play this year. I noticed Zachen was a candidate for the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar award and Big Cat for the Karl Malone award (power forward) this week. Hmmm. Tre will definitely have it easier against any other big in the country.
I noticed Tre being much more comfortable shooting over (and around) Zack relative to last year. That should help him against all the big guys he's up against.
So I am starting to think that Zach and Trevion will play 5-10 minutes together a game. When you have a second team preseason All American who might be the second best player on the team at his position, it makes you want to try to find a way to play them together.
It is a tough combo to play defensively, but I think that Trevion’s passing ability might make it work offensively. I can’t see many college fours being able to handle Tre without a double team and Tre passes well enough to make him very hard to double. Surround them with Ivey and a couple shooters like IT and Sasha and most defenses should have no good answers, not to mention the advantage that Purdue should have on the boards. Of course, that line-up can be exploited on the other end of the court, but hopefully not enough to offset its offensive advantage.
It is a tough combo to play defensively, but I think that Trevion’s passing ability might make it work offensively. I can’t see many college fours being able to handle Tre without a double team and Tre passes well enough to make him very hard to double. Surround them with Ivey and a couple shooters like IT and Sasha and most defenses should have no good answers, not to mention the advantage that Purdue should have on the boards. Of course, that line-up can be exploited on the other end of the court, but hopefully not enough to offset its offensive advantage.
Tre has slimmed down a lot and that makes it possible to play him at the 4, but I still don't see it much. The problem is just the alternative pieces fit better, even if they are not better players than Tre. Just looking at the two scrimmage stats, Tre is 0-5 from 3s, Gillis 2-of-3, Furst 2-of-5, and TKR 3-of-10. Our 4 man has to be a 3-pt threat. HAS TO. Whenever we had a good team, be it Hummel, VEd, Biggie, or even Eifert at the 4, all of them can hit open 3s. That's what made us tough to defend. But when Wheeler was playing the 4 and he couldn't shoot consistently, our offense became stale. Defense will overload the paint at the expense of leaving Wheeler open. And we haven't even gotten to defense.
The problem is like having both Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on your team. The duo are clearly the best players on your team, but you simply can't play them both together. Basketball is a bit better, but you the idea.
Teams are going to fear our frontline and then they'll look at our backcourt and think.....start the bus.
Not every team. I mean Purdue may beat Illinois in a game but Kofi, Curbelo, Frazier, etc. will have no fear of Purdue.
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There is a reason (or multiple ones) that Kofi is still at Illinois and not playing professionally...and, he is going to miss Ayo and his presence more than anyone...Kofi can say hello, but, Purdue has no concerns about matching up with him and will have even less concerns about going after/attacking him.
We have 15 fouls to give at the 5. We might throw Kofi off and play Furst. Wear him down running the floor and guarding the perimeter.
What I like from scrimmage box scores so far....
1. TKR and Furst look like inside/outside threats to score from the 4. Gillis is a nice glue guy, but having other options putting pressure on D at the weakest position last year is a nice improvement. It is widely overlooked in preseason projections the impact these 2 top 50 freshman will add IMO.
2. Ivey is scoring on low volume. The first scrimmage he had 8 assists and 1 turnover. To me this is a sign that he is taking a jump in 2 big areas he needed to improve in to reach the potential everyone sees.
3. Newman clearly isn't affected by that ankle that held him out the first week of practice. Based on production he is edging out Sasha which makes the team have higher ceiling IMO.
4. Is Edey going to flat out beat Williams for minutes? It's the elephant in the room at the moment. Great problem to have. In picture recruit posted Tre and Zach looked to be playing on same team. Might be forced to do this some just to get them both minutes. Key will be having 3 other shooters out there with them. Maybe when IT is at point?
1. TKR and Furst look like inside/outside threats to score from the 4. Gillis is a nice glue guy, but having other options putting pressure on D at the weakest position last year is a nice improvement. It is widely overlooked in preseason projections the impact these 2 top 50 freshman will add IMO.
2. Ivey is scoring on low volume. The first scrimmage he had 8 assists and 1 turnover. To me this is a sign that he is taking a jump in 2 big areas he needed to improve in to reach the potential everyone sees.
3. Newman clearly isn't affected by that ankle that held him out the first week of practice. Based on production he is edging out Sasha which makes the team have higher ceiling IMO.
4. Is Edey going to flat out beat Williams for minutes? It's the elephant in the room at the moment. Great problem to have. In picture recruit posted Tre and Zach looked to be playing on same team. Might be forced to do this some just to get them both minutes. Key will be having 3 other shooters out there with them. Maybe when IT is at point?
29% from 3. Would be good to knock down 4 or 5 more with 48 attempts. TKR and Furst shooting a few. Newman 4 of 10 looking good.
Nobody here cares. Thanks for stopping by.
I expect Illinois to be tough again this year, Combes, and a lot will depend upon Curbelo and Williams, IMHO. Purdue matches up better this year without Dosunmu; regardless, Cockburn will get his share.....should be two good games this year in the regular season. Unfinished business for both squads after last year's NCAA tournament. We shall see.
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Normally I would agree with you, but I think the standard rules change when you have the right players. I argued that they are better off splitting the 40 minutes so that they could stay fresh and not worry about fouls, but I began to change my mind when Edey dominated in the U19 games. I am not advocating for huge minutes, but I think you have to look hard at playing them together some.
Spacing is always key, but that’s why I would want shooters at the 1-3. I definitely don’t want Trevion shooting threes. He does his best work from 10 feet in and defenses will not to be able to leave Zach to help on him without giving up easy buckets and put packs.
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I just don’t see much of them playing together. We have several better options at the four other than Trevion. I know they are forecast to be two of our better players but it also seems that having that one/two punch will be their role with Gillis, Furst and Kaufman holding down the four spot.
Great problems to have.
I also wonder about having Ivey, Newman and Sasha all on the floor together. Seems that could be another situation where do we want our best players all to be in the floor together and how does that look?
Great problems to have.
I also wonder about having Ivey, Newman and Sasha all on the floor together. Seems that could be another situation where do we want our best players all to be in the floor together and how does that look?
There is no standard 4 spot skill that you must have and you don't have to be hitting 3's at the four spot to be good. It is all about what skill sets you have and how they blend on O and D to be most effective. "IF" Trevion is playing with Zach, he doesn't have to shoot or hit a single 3 to be effective, but he better be effective within 12 and preferably 15 for the O to be good. If he can do that, then there are a lot of positives not only with the inside game, but you now have more spacing with only three behind the arc instead of 4 for the D to cover if someone goes to help on a Purdue big.
Those two or even four extra points by hitting 3's instead of 2's from the four spot can be made up in so many ways, but again this depends on being really dominant inside playing those two together. If just okay, then you probably lose more than you gain over the long haul on D and movement on O since you have the shot clock eliminating some options for inside play on O. Whether they play together or not as a constant, I do think there will be times that they do play together in certain situations and that will also depend on their FT shooting. There were times last year that Zach was better than Trevion and so no surprise in him improving even more. The times they don't play together...can you imagine a single post player on the other team defending the different skill sets of Caleb/Trevion/Zach or the reserve going against any of the three? I really liked this team early last year and I'm especially excited for this year. Matt appears to have at his disposal a LOT of variety in strengths in different players on this team and different ways of playing. It will be interesting to see how the new offensive coach structures the team...and would I love to read his scouting report on Purdue when at Ohio State and watch the facial reaction of a fw players. I expect many of our questions will start to come into focus by mid Dec and and have decent understandings by the start of the Big. Then again, players like Trey and Caleb could grow a lot in a couple of months and change things again a bit. Just remember, there is but one ball and in the low to mid 60 shots per game quite often. I suspect that whether Tre and Zach play together much you will still want to limit the 3 ball to around 20 shots a game and maybe 25 if the inside is dominating and pulling in a lot of help. Start getting over 25 and you probably aren't drawing many fouls and punishing the other team enough with too much perimeter play and not enough attack with the ball and/or players to the basket.
If Zach is gonna hit 70 percent from the floor, that's unstoppable. He will have to play. Whatever that means for Tre is up to CMP. I prefer creativity and making teams adjust to our strength. But if Zach is that locked, that's ridiculous. If done right, no can defend.
The drone beat of "our bigs MUST shoot 3's" is numbing.
I'm hoping us winning a few games where we barely shoot any 3's because we are pummeling the other team inside opens a few eyes.
Son in law is an Illinois grad, my daughter a Purdue grad.
I tried to get tickets for the game in Mackey.
$180 a pop. Good seats. It should be a very good game.
Understand that "some" see "some" of the Purdue teams that were good in their eyes that had a 4 man being a legitimate threat behind the arc and then assume that is what you must have. Instead, different team strengths may allow playing different than in the past. I'm open to seeing if it plays out or not. Right or wrong, Matt will try to play what he considers the best approach in general and a specific approach during a specific game and possible time.
Take something as simple as being down 1 or 2 with 10 seconds to go in the game and you have the ball at your end at the side (even different sides may change things). There is no concern for defense, only not turning the ball over, and getting a high percentage shot and IF FOULED hitting the Fts. Do you play two bigs if not shooting Fts well or do you open it up for maybe an effective Ft shooter that can drive the ball? Does that change if your bigs are shooting Fts well? If the game is tied, and you are in bonus or double bonus, does that change whether you have two bigs or not in there for that final 10 seconds when they may have two chances and only need to make one? Being in bonus or double bonus as well as who is on the floor for the other team also may dictate what Matt does. There are few hard rules in basketball, general statistics and gut feel for that game will drive what happens and that gut feel may be the eyeball test for "that" game...
It is all about effectiveness as a team...not an individual player who may struggle a bit with a different alignment than another.
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