a recent 60 minutes expose on an NBA ref got me to thinking about Big Ten refs.They are not always right but they are always sure. 1) Am I the only one that thinks flagrant fouls should be eliminated? 2) Is it possible to eliminate home-team and superstar bias?
Ref Questions
- Thread starter Tucsonboiler2
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What would we use to to penalize excessive, deliberate, and intentional conduct the if we didn't have flagrant fouls? I agree that some of the calls made on Haas last your were rediculous but They have their place.
With regards to the second part, refs are human and a human being's emotions and subsequent logic can always be influenced so unless we have robot refs, there will always be a chance for bias.
Probably my biggest beef with Big Ten BB officiating has been consistency.....or lack of it.....from season to season.....game-to-game.....half-to-half.....location-to-location.....even possession-to-possession. This goes back a ways even when I was attending Purdue. I know plenty of folks affiliated with other Big Ten schools feel similarly. I don't think there's the same level of frustration with any other conference.
Flagrant Fouls? I think you have to have a rule for that, and I don't mind the "letter/spirit" of the rule. No doubt, I Haas is difficult to officiate at times because of his size. I think as he plays more, he's going to get more benefit of the doubt. He does have to continue to watch the elbows.....it's just a risk that's on him, whether you think it's fair or not. Another thing I don't like is going back retroactively in a game.....to a point where play has progressed several minutes......then there's a play stoppage, and the officials are looking at pixels or frame-by-frame analysis of a play they just flat-out missed or didn't see.
Ok, I guess I've "bitched" enough for a Friday. TGIF.
Flagrant Fouls? I think you have to have a rule for that, and I don't mind the "letter/spirit" of the rule. No doubt, I Haas is difficult to officiate at times because of his size. I think as he plays more, he's going to get more benefit of the doubt. He does have to continue to watch the elbows.....it's just a risk that's on him, whether you think it's fair or not. Another thing I don't like is going back retroactively in a game.....to a point where play has progressed several minutes......then there's a play stoppage, and the officials are looking at pixels or frame-by-frame analysis of a play they just flat-out missed or didn't see.
Ok, I guess I've "bitched" enough for a Friday. TGIF.
This. And there needs to be an age limit. I am sorry but there come an age where you not even remotely can keep up with fast paced 18 year olds flying up the court let alone have the perfect vision to see things clearly and get a call right all the time.
Hell, I'm 45 .... play racquetball for 2 hours 2 times a week and I couldn't do that now. I get that is why there are multiple refs, but still.
The big problem IMHO is that due to media and fan noise they have become arbitrators rather than refs. Instead of calling all the fouls, they try to decide on the fly what is pertinent to the game and only make calls that they believe influence the play itself. I realize that to revert to calling all the fouls (taking the game back 50+ years) would be painful to watch for awhile I strongly believe the players would adjust and go back to playing non contact basketball rather than the current football on hardwood. I think flagrant fouls have their place and in fact every contact that is not a play for the ball should be shots plus possession. I also don't like the end of game foul-a-thon and again believe that a semi intentional foul should be shots plus possession.
Get rid of flagrant fouls?
If they did that, what would happen in this scenario?
-Haas goes up for an easy lay-up. A defender, who has no chance to make a play on the ball, pushes him in the back while he's jumping for the layup. The unexpected push causes Haas to land awkwardly and stay on the floor in pain for several minutes.
Would we just call this a regular foul in your proposed scenario?
Superstar bias is an absolute reality and it drives me crazy. What about the integrity of the game?
I understand why superstar bias exists: Sell tickets and money, over integrity, always wins out. But I abhor it.
Whenever someone states that Michael Jordan is the "greatest ever" or "the greatest to ever lace up a pair of basketball shoes. No question about it!" I just roll my eyes. There's a lot of questions about it, and the first question for me is always superstar treatment from the league (and by proxy) the officials.
No player ever, ever, ever has or ever, ever will benefit from the superstar bias that Michael Jordan received.
I understand why superstar bias exists: Sell tickets and money, over integrity, always wins out. But I abhor it.
Whenever someone states that Michael Jordan is the "greatest ever" or "the greatest to ever lace up a pair of basketball shoes. No question about it!" I just roll my eyes. There's a lot of questions about it, and the first question for me is always superstar treatment from the league (and by proxy) the officials.
No player ever, ever, ever has or ever, ever will benefit from the superstar bias that Michael Jordan received.
It was NC State.
The announcers showed a graphic describing a flagrant 1, both agreed that it was a clear case of flagrant 1 because "pushing in the back" was listed clearly, and then after reviewing the monitor for several minutes, the refs decided it was just a regular foul.
You have to have flagrant fouls, unless you want likewise retaliation, fights & suspensions. There are occasional suspensions [& even fights] still yet, but far fewer than there used to be. You'll find players testing the limits & bounds in any aspect of life, but the constant dirty/flagrant, rule breakers must be thinned from the herd, one way or anouther, for the greater good of all/the majority.
I agree that flagrant foulers should be punished. Why do we have to watch two refs watching tv to resolve the issue.The 30 sec rule might speed up the game, but ridding ourselves from fagrant 1&2 surely will.
Good one. I think we all know the answer even with a flagrant foul rule. Evenetually Haas will be penalized for causing the player to be out of position and pushing him from behind.
My question is since Haas is so much taller then most guards grabbing for the ball on double teams. Will he be able to raise the ball above his head without being called for an elbow that happens to hit a 6'2" guy in the head as his arms to up? I mean, is it even possible to bring the ball up from waist height to above your head without your arms bending?
I like the rule. I do think it needs to have some intentional nature to it for it to be called a flagrant however. If not then the little guy gets the advantage over a player a foot taller just by default of where the elbows naturally are in this scenario.
You know I remember this being brought up while watching a game last season. Haas' elbows are pretty much at head level of the majority of people he plays against. The refs have got to learn how to call games against people his size because he won't be the last person this happens to.
If he gets called for a flagrant just for going up for a rebound, I can see frustration setting in and him getting a "why bother?" attitude about it. And who could blame him?
