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RE: Woodson and Indiana basketball

TwinDegrees2

TwinDegrees2

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Aug 8, 2009
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Talking to a good friend today...former banker...who has great connections to the IU basketball program.

Dane was let go because of his belief that punishments should be tougher than Woodson was giving and he hated the way players were allowed to go through the motions. More Knight in Fife than Izzo, and Dane confronted Woody about it. Woodson accused Fife of insubordination and trying to run the show. Woodson also takes no advice from his assistants and all they do is work during practices.

It seems that Matta didn't agree with Woodson's philosophy either, that he wouldn't listen to Thad, who would have pretty much taken any opportunity to get away from the current situation in Bloomington. I'm personally happy for Matta because he's always been a great guy.

According to my friend, it's total chaos right now in Trailer City trying to save Johnson's scholarship. I'm guessing there is a shortage of Old Milwaukee Light in Monroe County tonight.

Also, look for Woodson to rely on the portal for players and slow down recruiting. For what he wants to do to mimic the NBA, that suits him better.
 
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TwinDegrees2 said:
Talking to a good friend today...former banker...who has great connections to the IU basketball program.

Dane was let go because of his belief that punishments should be tougher than Woodson was giving and he hated the way players were allowed to go through the motions. More Knight in Fife than Izzo, and Dane confronted Woody about it. Woodson accused Fife of insubordination and trying to run the show. Woodson also takes no advice from his assistants and all they do is work during practices.

It seems that Matta didn't agree with Woodson's philosophy either, that he wouldn't listen to Thad, who would have pretty much taken any opportunity to get away from the current situation in Bloomington. I'm personally happy for Matta because he's always been a great guy.

According to my friend, it's total chaos right now in Trailer City trying to save Johnson's scholarship. I'm guessing there is a shortage of Old Milwaukee Light in Monroe County tonight.

Also, look for Woodson to rely on the portal for players and slow down recruiting. For what he wants to do to mimic the NBA, that suits him better.
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Considering that Fife was arrested when he played in Bloomington and not dismissed from the team, and Fife hung out with Izzo and his notable disregard for law enforcement incidents for 10 years, if this were even remotely true it would be the height of hypocrisy.

Which makes more sense, Fife being bothered that Woody suspended players for a big game given Fife’s history? Or Twindegrees telling a tale that Fife was offended there wasn't stronger punishment?

When there are two sides to the story, when no decision has been made yet, and when the facts are not public yet, I always expect Twindegrees to fall on the side of the 'whiter hat.' Always. So now it's a "Fife/Matta good, Woodson bad" example.
 
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HoosierfanJM said:
Considering that Fife was arrested when he played in Bloomington and not dismissed from the team, and Fife hung out with Izzo and his notable disregard for law enforcement incidents for 10 years, if this were even remotely true it would be the height of hypocrisy.

Which makes more sense, Fife being bothered that Woody suspended players for a big game given Fife’s history? Or Twindegrees telling a tale that Fife was offended there wasn't stronger punishment?

When there are two sides to the story, when no decision has been made yet, and when the facts are not public yet, I always expect Twindegrees to fall on the side of the 'whiter hat.' Always.
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May be fair to an extent, but, I have heard (if not the same), VERY similar things from people that would definitely have knowledge on the situation(s) regarding Fife and Matta...and, the mere fact that absolutely nothing has been done with respect to Johnson lends some credence to that piece as well.

Your point on Fife is fair with respect to his own transgression and being at MSU, but, he was not at MSU in the same capacity, and, he did not have the personal investment at MSU that he did at/with his alma mater.

Regardless, the mere fact that a plan was implemented a year ago that has completely blown up already does point to chaos...he/others are right on that point.
 
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DAG10 said:
May be fair to an extent, but, I have heard (if not the same), VERY similar things from people that would definitely have knowledge on the situation(s) regarding Fife and Matta...and, the mere fact that absolutely nothing has been done with respect to Johnson lends some credence to that piece as well.

Your point on Fife is fair with respect to his own transgression and being at MSU, but, he was not at MSU in the same capacity, and, he did not have the personal investment at MSU that he did at/with his alma mater.

Regardless, the mere fact that a plan was implemented a year ago that has completely blown up already does point to chaos...he/others are right on that point.
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It also points to Woodson starting with a staff of people that in large part he had not worked with before, promoting three of them (Kenya, Walsh, and Yas) and dismissing one (Fife).

Thad Matta wants to get back into coaching, and has a chance to at his hometown school that his daughter attends, for $2million/per, with his best friend Collier as AD. That's a no-brainer for Thad, and way, way better than an Assistant AD (basically consulting) job for $400k at IU.
 
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DAG10 said:
May be fair to an extent, but, I have heard (if not the same), VERY similar things from people that would definitely have knowledge on the situation(s) regarding Fife and Matta...and, the mere fact that absolutely nothing has been done with respect to Johnson lends some credence to that piece as well.

Your point on Fife is fair with respect to his own transgression and being at MSU, but, he was not at MSU in the same capacity, and, he did not have the personal investment at MSU that he did at/with his alma mater.

Regardless, the mere fact that a plan was implemented a year ago that has completely blown up already does point to chaos...he/others are right on that point
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Are you saying something should have been done with Johnson about the incident that just happened yesterday? If so I am sure the staff is still fact checking the situation and not rushing to judgement. Also, not sure what penalty everyone wants but in my opinion going fast in a car and trying to switch seats doesn't warrant losing a scholarship. Was it dumb and stupid yes but he wasn't drinking or anything like that so this may all be handled internally and we may never know the punishment short of suspending him a few games next year.
 
HoosierfanJM said:
It also points to Woodson starting with a staff of people that in large part he had not worked with before, promoting three of them (Kenya, Walsh, and Yas) and dismissing one (Fife).

Thad Matta wants to get back into coaching at his hometown school for $2million/per with his best friend Collier as AD. That's a no-brainer for Thad, and way, way better than an Assistant AD (basically consulting) job for $400k at IU.
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Also, if rumors are true he will step into the AD role once he and Barry decide the time is right and he has Assistant AD on his resume now.
 
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HoosierfanJM said:
Considering that Fife was arrested when he played in Bloomington and not dismissed from the team, and Fife hung out with Izzo and his notable disregard for law enforcement incidents for 10 years, if this were even remotely true it would be the height of hypocrisy.

Which makes more sense, Fife being bothered that Woody suspended players for a big game given Fife’s history? Or Twindegrees telling a tale that Fife was offended there wasn't stronger punishment?

When there are two sides to the story, when no decision has been made yet, and when the facts are not public yet, I always expect Twindegrees to fall on the side of the 'whiter hat.' Always. So now it's a "Fife/Matta good, Woodson bad" example.
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And when the truer side of the story is posted, here comes good ol' lU fan JM putting his IU is so good spin on it. I'll trust my friend who sits four rows behind the bench than someone who has to be compelled to constantly support a dirty program. Expect Johnson to get a two game suspension. After all, that's about right in Bloomington these days. Now, how about you tell us who is going to take Matta's place to "teach" Woodson how to coach the college boys.
 
peytonrules said:
Are you saying something should have been done with Johnson about the incident that just happened yesterday? If so I am sure the staff is still fact checking the situation and not rushing to judgement. Also, not sure what penalty everyone wants but in my opinion going fast in a car and trying to switch seats doesn't warrant losing a scholarship. Was it dumb and stupid yes but he wasn't drinking or anything like that so this may all be handled internally and we may never know the punishment short of suspending him a few games next year.
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Fleeing from a police pursuit. Nah, that's not a serious offense is it? And how do you know he wasn't drinking? Had he hit someone in his little innocent stunt and killed them, would it still not be serious?
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
Fleeing from a police pursuit. Nah, that's not a serious offense is it? And how do you know he wasn't drinking? Had he hit someone in his little innocent stunt and killed them, would it still not be serious?
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So Gillis should be gone from Purdue? No breathalyzer failed, and no breathalyzer refused by Johnson.

And can you be any more transparent? Mike Woodson, at age 63 with 30+ years of coaching, needs someone to "teach Woodson how to coach" the "boys?"

Hmmm, interesting that Matta and Fife can "teach" Woodson, yet on IU's staff a 30+ year coach with a Princeton degree - Armond Hill, and 20+ year college coach Kenya Hunter cannot?

Are Hill and Hunter too "in the dark" for you?
 
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Shhhh….everything is great in Bloomington. They just made the NCAAT for the first time in 6 years.

Woodson is awesome! They’ll be completing for the Top 20 next year.🤣
 
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Brad Logan said:
And anyone who disagrees is a racist!
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Oh heck no! I would assume that the rest of you simply disagree.

Twindegrees2 is a racist. I'm waiting for him to call Woodson and Armond Hill "thugs." Now stand by for his counter-move calling Anthony Leal a thug. Then down the road he gets cocky and just cannot help but blurt out transparently racist garbage.
 
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HoosierfanJM said:
So Gillis should be gone from Purdue? No breathalyzer failed, and no breathalyzer refused by Johnson.

And can you be any more transparent? Mike Woodson, at age 63 with 30+ years of coaching, needs someone to "teach" him? For the "boys?"

Hmmm, interesting that Matta and Fife can "teach" Woodson, yet 30+ year coach with the Princeton degree Armond Hill and 20+ year college coach Kenya Hunter cannot? Too dark a situation for yo
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Gillis' offense was his first. Sorry, but Matta was hired to "help Woody transition from the Pro's to the college game" by Dolson. And I don't care where his assistants got their degree from. He's the one running the show. Yep boys....you know like, Galloway, Leal, Shipp, Scott, Kopp, and the rest of the team.
 
peytonrules said:
Are you saying something should have been done with Johnson about the incident that just happened yesterday? If so I am sure the staff is still fact checking the situation and not rushing to judgement. Also, not sure what penalty everyone wants but in my opinion going fast in a car and trying to switch seats doesn't warrant losing a scholarship. Was it dumb and stupid yes but he wasn't drinking or anything like that so this may all be handled internally and we may never know the punishment short of suspending him a few games next year.
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Absolutely something should have been done...he should have been suspended immediately, pending further fact checking and what not. For sure he should have been suspended...there is no question about the details of what actually happened, and, it is not his first issue...and, he has already been suspended. Frankly, there is no need for further fact checking...and, at other places, there would not be...he would have known after his most recent suspension that if he were to have problems again, that he would be dismissed...but, in this case, in that apparently that was not something that was discussed or made clear, he absolutely should have been suspended indefinitely immediately, and, the fact that he was not reflects poorly on Woodson and the program.

It is a pattern of behavior with the kid...he has problems on the floor...he has bigger problems off the floor...he was not just "driving fast"...he was driving ridiculously fast in a place where he had no business doing so, and, he tried to hide the fact that he was (ANOTHER red flag and ANOTHER bad decision, and, a character flaw), and, he compounded all of it by being an a$$ (no surprise) to the police officer(s) and resisting arrest.

On its own...maybe you can make a case as to what it does or does not merit with respect to his scholarship...but, this is not a case of "on its own" in that he has a history, that he shows absolutely zero sign of progress on or off the floor with respect to being able to control his actions or make good decisions, and, bottom line...he does not only understand the importance of being on a full-ride scholarship and playing at/for the University...he does not care...THAT should be enough to dismiss a kid...the other actual issues are just details.

The ONLY reason that he has not been dismissed already is because he is talented, and, in the minds of some (including potentially Woodson), he is "needed."
 
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TwinDegrees2 said:
Talking to a good friend today...former banker...who has great connections to the IU basketball program.

Dane was let go because of his belief that punishments should be tougher than Woodson was giving and he hated the way players were allowed to go through the motions. More Knight in Fife than Izzo, and Dane confronted Woody about it. Woodson accused Fife of insubordination and trying to run the show. Woodson also takes no advice from his assistants and all they do is work during practices.

It seems that Matta didn't agree with Woodson's philosophy either, that he wouldn't listen to Thad, who would have pretty much taken any opportunity to get away from the current situation in Bloomington. I'm personally happy for Matta because he's always been a great guy.

According to my friend, it's total chaos right now in Trailer City trying to save Johnson's scholarship. I'm guessing there is a shortage of Old Milwaukee Light in Monroe County tonight.

Also, look for Woodson to rely on the portal for players and slow down recruiting. For what he wants to do to mimic the NBA, that suits him better.
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My 2 cents..... Woody want to run the show while IU wanted him to groom Fife into the next coach. Woody doesn't want a "coach in waiting" & is planning on being there longer than Fife would want. The problem for Woody is that father time will hurt his recruiting more than he thinks.
 
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DAG10 said:
Absolutely something should have been done...he should have been suspended immediately, pending further fact checking and what not. For sure he should have been suspended...there is no question about the details of what actually happened, and, it is not his first issue...and, he has already been suspended. Frankly, there is no need for further fact checking...and, at other places, there would not be...he would have known after his most recent suspension that if he were to have problems again, that he would be dismissed...but, in this case, in that apparently that was not something that was discussed or made clear, he absolutely should have been suspended indefinitely immediately, and, the fact that he was not reflects poorly on Woodson and the program.

It is a pattern of behavior with the kid...he has problems on the floor...he has bigger problems off the floor...he was not just "driving fast"...he was driving ridiculously fast in a place where he had no business doing so, and, he tried to hide the fact that he was (ANOTHER red flag and ANOTHER bad decision, and, a character flaw), and, he compounded all of it by being an a$$ (no surprise) to the police officer(s) and resisting arrest.

On its own...maybe you can make a case as to what it does or does not merit with respect to his scholarship...but, this is not a case of "on its own" in that he has a history, that he shows absolutely zero sign of progress on or off the floor with respect to being able to control his actions or make good decisions, and, bottom line...he does not only understand the importance of being on a full-ride scholarship and playing at/for the University...he does not care...THAT should be enough to dismiss a kid...the other actual issues are just details.

The ONLY reason that he has not been dismissed already is because he is talented, and, in the minds of some (including potentially Woodson), he is "needed."
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I guess I missed the part where he was an ass to the police officer. I don't see that anywhere in the report. I guess if Cline gets three games from Painter from being so stoned he passed out with his vehicle running and his foot on the gas pedal I guess going to fast warrants some stadium steps.
 
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*4purdue* said:
My 2 cents..... Woody want to run the show while IU wanted him to groom Fife into the next coach. Woody doesn't want a "coach in waiting" & is planning on being there longer than Fife would want. The problem for Woody is that father time will hurt his recruiting more than he thinks.
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Makes sense. Asst Coach Yas Rosemond and B Walsh are a big deal with day to day recruiting, but Woody still has to close on recruits and their families, especially on campus.
 
peytonrules said:
I guess I missed the part where he was an ass to the police officer. I don't see that anywhere in the report. I guess if Cline gets three games from Painter from being so stoned he passed out with his vehicle running and his foot on the gas pedal I guess going to fast warrants some stadium steps.
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Not about Painter, or Purdue, never mind Cline...Painter has twice dismissed guys after a second chance....a starter in one case, 6th man in the other...there was no consideration at all to their ability or alleged importance to the team. I know this...IF Cline had done ANYTHING after his suspension, he would have been dismissed...immediately.

All irrelevant to the matter at hand though...and, the failure of Woodson to do anything all remains a bad look, and, only shows more how desperate he is there. Personally, I am good with nothing happened, as, that guy will absolutely mess things up even more while he is there...I have said it many times already...I hope that he returns and hope as well that he remains the starting PG, as, that guy can't be trusted on the floor or off, and, I know that they will continue to be a mess if THAT guy is the "floor leader." Like say, he is just the latest in a long line of clowns that don't care about what it is supposed to mean to play there...and, the longer he stays and the more he is allowed to get away with on the floor and off, the lower that standard becomes...I get that it does not matter to him...I just thought it mattered to others, including Woodson...it mattered to Fife and is in part why he is not there, this is just further evidence of how little it matters to Woodson and how desperate he is.

An immediate indefinite suspension was the absolute least that should have been done (and, in that the season is over, it really would have amounted to nothing...but, it at least beat doing literally NOTHING).

If he does "run steps"...they should keep him away from the goose sh!t...if that is even possible.
 
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DAG10 said:
Not about Painter, or Purdue, never mind Cline...Painter has twice dismissed guys after a second chance....a starter in one case, 6th man in the other...there was no consideration at all to their ability or alleged importance to the team. I know this...IF Cline had done ANYTHING after his suspension, he would have been dismissed...immediately.

All irrelevant to the matter at hand though...and, the failure of Woodson to do anything all remains a bad look, and, only shows more how desperate he is there. Personally, I am good with nothing happened, as, that guy will absolutely mess things up even more while he is there...I have said it many times already...I hope that he returns and hope as well that he remains the starting PG, as, that guy can't be trusted on the floor or off, and, I know that they will continue to be a mess if THAT guy is the "floor leader." Like say, he is just the latest in a long line of clowns that don't care about what it is supposed to mean to play there...and, the longer he stays and the more he is allowed to get away with on the floor and off, the lower that standard becomes...I get that it does not matter to him...I just thought it mattered to others, including Woodson...it mattered to Fife and is in part why he is not there, this is just further evidence of how little it matters to Woodson and how desperate he is.

An immediate indefinite suspension was the absolute least that should have been done (and, in that the season is over, it really would have amounted to nothing...but, it at least beat doing literally NOTHING).

If he does "run steps"...they should keep him away from the goose sh!t...if that is even possible.
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Woodson probably doesn't want to do anyting until after TJD decides. I'm guessing he has concerns if he were to dump Johnson before TJD announces, then TJD will either declare for the draft or hit the portal.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
And when the truer side of the story is posted, here comes good ol' lU fan JM putting his IU is so good spin on it. I'll trust my friend who sits four rows behind the bench than someone who has to be compelled to constantly support a dirty program. Expect Johnson to get a two game suspension. After all, that's about right in Bloomington these days. Now, how about you tell us who is going to take Matta's place to "teach" Woodson how to coach the college boys.
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Gillis was so drunk he couldn't stop at a red light without running up on the curve, was suspended four games. I don't think either program has a leg to stand on here.
 
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titaniumbolt said:
Gillis was so drunk he couldn't stop at a red light without running up on the curve, was suspended four games. I don't think either program has a leg to stand on here.
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Let's set this straight. Gillis one infraction. Johnson a room full and the fact you're not mentioning is Johnson had another traffic infraction last fall. I'll say this as a former IU guy, he needs to be gone because he's had enough chances and if Woody doesn't boot his ass to the curb now, Woody should never mention changing the culture at IU again.

I'm actually surprised that you'd support Johnson being in an IU uniform.
 
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TwinDegrees2 said:
Let's set this straight. Gillis one infraction. Johnson a room full and the fact you're not mentioning is Johnson had another traffic infraction last fall. I'll say this as a former IU guy, he needs to be gone because he's had enough chances and if Woody doesn't boot his ass to the curb now, Woody should never mention changing the culture at IU again.

I'm actually surprised that you'd support Johnson being in an IU uniform.
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Not a good look to make various 18-22 year old stupidities into a "which is worse" contest. There are gonna be some empty rosters at many may schools, including IU and Purdue if that's the case.
 
HoosierfanJM said:
Not a good look to make various 18-22 year old stupidities into a "which is worse" contest. There are gonna be some empty rosters at many may schools, including IU and Purdue if that's the case.
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So let me get this right....you as an IU fan support what X has done and support Woody keeping on the roster? Simple question.
 
HoosierfanJM said:
Considering that Fife was arrested when he played in Bloomington and not dismissed from the team, and Fife hung out with Izzo and his notable disregard for law enforcement incidents for 10 years, if this were even remotely true it would be the height of hypocrisy.

Which makes more sense, Fife being bothered that Woody suspended players for a big game given Fife’s history? Or Twindegrees telling a tale that Fife was offended there wasn't stronger punishment?

When there are two sides to the story, when no decision has been made yet, and when the facts are not public yet, I always expect Twindegrees to fall on the side of the 'whiter hat.' Always. So now it's a "Fife/Matta good, Woodson bad" example.
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Sorry, there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth.
 
HoosierfanJM said:
Not a good look to make various 18-22 year old stupidities into a "which is worse" contest. There are gonna be some empty rosters at many may schools, including IU and Purdue if that's the case.
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Agree to disagree...there are exceptions certainly, but, they are indeed exceptions...not the norm...definitely at Purdue, and, for the majority of cases there as well (other than when Sampson was there).

I don't worry about either program being able to avoid any empty roster, and, form one with talented individuals that are also good people...and, that appreciate what they are doing and where they are doing it.

Will Gillis have another off-court issue? My guess is no...I won't say that with the same conviction for Johnson, nor, to me, did it come as any great surprise that Barlow had a subsequent issue/matter at Purdue. I know this...if he did...he would be dismissed, and, as much as it would disappoint me in some ways, it is absolutely what should happen.
 
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HoosierfanJM said:
Oh heck no! I would assume that the rest of you simply disagree.

Twindegrees2 is a racist. I'm waiting for him to call Woodson and Armond Hill "thugs." Now stand by for his counter-move calling Anthony Leal a thug. Then down the road he gets cocky and just cannot help but blurt out transparently
Click to expand...

DAG10 said:
Not about Painter, or Purdue, never mind Cline...Painter has twice dismissed guys after a second chance....a starter in one case, 6th man in the other...there was no consideration at all to their ability or alleged importance to the team. I know this...IF Cline had done ANYTHING after his suspension, he would have been dismissed...immediately.

All irrelevant to the matter at hand though...and, the failure of Woodson to do anything all remains a bad look, and, only shows more how desperate he is there. Personally, I am good with nothing happened, as, that guy will absolutely mess things up even more while he is there...I have said it many times already...I hope that he returns and hope as well that he remains the starting PG, as, that guy can't be trusted on the floor or off, and, I know that they will continue to be a mess if THAT guy is the "floor leader." Like say, he is just the latest in a long line of clowns that don't care about what it is supposed to mean to play there...and, the longer he stays and the more he is allowed to get away with on the floor and off, the lower that standard becomes...I get that it does not matter to him...I just thought it mattered to others, including Woodson...it mattered to Fife and is in part why he is not there, this is just further evidence of how little it matters to Woodson and how desperate he is.

An immediate indefinite suspension was the absolute least that should have been done (and, in that the season is over, it really would have amounted to nothing...but, it at least beat doing literally NOTHING).

If he does "run steps"...they should keep him away from the goose sh!t...if that is even possible.
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Oh yes, the old "suspension during the off-season maneuver" like Coach LEO deployed for Hendershot!
 
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TwinDegrees2 said:
So let me get this right....1) you as an IU fan support what X has done and 2)support Woody keeping on the roster? Simple question.
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You asked two Questions:

1) No.
2) Not a "yes or no" answer for me, because I don't have much of the relevant info. If X was not under any "one screw up and you're done" status? Sure.

I'd take Gillis on IU too. And that's not a back-handed knock on Gillis. I assume he's a good kid who was worth sticking behind during his worst moment. Cline too. BTW, Cline's incident was not the first time the Purdue staff knew he had an issue.

Kids can be productive members of society if their mentors do not kick them to the curb when things are at their worst. Geez. What do you think should happen to Xavier Johnson re basketball? Banned from the game? Banned from the Big 10? Banned from D1? Banned from D1 in the State of Indiana?

Will Xavier Johnson have a better chance to be a productive member of society if that happens? So my simple question for you regarding Xavier Johnson: He screwed up. Where do you want him to be?
 
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HoosierfanJM said:
Oh heck no! I would assume that the rest of you simply disagree.

Twindegrees2 is a racist. I'm waiting for him to call Woodson and Armond Hill "thugs." Now stand by for his counter-move calling Anthony Leal a thug. Then down the road he gets cocky and just cannot help but blurt out transparently racist garbage.
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Cool story. If you don't like an individual poster, why don't you put him on ignore rather than badmouth him on a non-IU board?
 
HoosierfanJM said:
So Gillis should be gone from Purdue? No breathalyzer failed, and no breathalyzer refused by Johnson.

And can you be any more transparent? Mike Woodson, at age 63 with 30+ years of coaching, needs someone to "teach Woodson how to coach" the "boys?"

Hmmm, interesting that Matta and Fife can "teach" Woodson, yet on IU's staff a 30+ year coach with a Princeton degree - Armond Hill, and 20+ year college coach Kenya Hunter cannot?

Are Hill and Hunter too "in the dark" for you?
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An Ivy League degree doesn't mean squat when it comes to athletes. He didn't have to compete academically to get in, just demonstrate he can do the work and he gets the coach's sponsorship. There are plenty of easy, no - math, degrees. He likely wasn't studying STEM stuff, his BA (not BS, I might add) was in psychology.
 
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