QB's at Purdue

[Summy1]

Why has Purdue had so much trouble with the QB position lately? Last year it was Etling that was playing bad. We talked about how Appleby would do better. Now Appleby is the starting QB and he is having the same trouble. Now everyone wants to play Blough or Sindelar.

I am not sure what the answer is? Should we start looking at the coaching?

 

[banshee90]

Henry etling AA all seem to regress hmm should we blame the qb coach?

 

[lbodel]

Henry etling AA all seem to regress hmm should we blame the qb coach?

One thing I'd say is that 2 of those 3 were not exactly high-ranking QBs. Appleby chose Purdue over some MAC schools. So quite frankly - they're probably playing/have played at the level you'd expect. Etling was literally thrown into a lion's den holding a ribeye - his issues were mental and they should have never pulled his redshirt so late into a season.

Now, is this a defense of QB coach? No, not at all. There's not a lot of positives to say about that position over the last several years.

But part of the issue is talent too. You gotta remember - Kyle Orton wasn't always loved on this board - and he was one of the best recruits we've gotten in the last 20 years. He was a top 25 player nationally. The players we have currently - and have had the last several years - are nowhere near the talent/depth we've had further back.

Again, that certainly doesn't excuse a QB coach or head coach because they're also in charge of recruiting.

Overall, our expectations are a BMW and we're driving around with Hyundais. Not bad cars - but certainly not top of the line.

 

[Dandelion1972]

Appleby was a 3 star recruit, an elite 11 QB, and some major schools showed interest in him (do your research before you spout off). Plus this:

North Canton Hoover quarterback Austin Appleby earned the top spot in OhioVarsity.com's quarterback rankings. Who else made the list?​

He works his tail off, spends much time in the film room and in my opinion, will eventually be quite good for Purdue. I watched Jim Everette come in against ND (hate to even type that) and fumble 3 successive snaps.

For those of you that worship at the feet of Drew Brees:

All four were virtual unknowns coming out of high school. None of them showed up in national recruiting service rankings. Three of them carried no stars with them to Purdue (Brees), Bloomsburg (Evans) and Hofstra (Colston).​

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/02/saints_as_high_school_recruits.html

Plus, Drew Brees had an offensive line that had 3 eventual NFL lineman playing.


Cut AA some slack and cheer for the TEAM!

 

[gelesen]

Appleby was a 3 star recruit, an elite 11 QB, and some major schools showed interest in him (do your research before you spout off). Plus this:

North Canton Hoover quarterback Austin Appleby earned the top spot in OhioVarsity.com's quarterback rankings. Who else made the list?​

He works his tail off, spends much time in the film room and in my opinion, will eventually be quite good for Purdue. I watched Jim Everette come in against ND (hate to even type that) and fumble 3 successive snaps.

For those of you that worship at the feet of Drew Brees:

All four were virtual unknowns coming out of high school. None of them showed up in national recruiting service rankings. Three of them carried no stars with them to Purdue (Brees), Bloomsburg (Evans) and Hofstra (Colston).​

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/02/saints_as_high_school_recruits.html

Plus, Drew Brees had an offensive line that had 3 eventual NFL lineman playing.


Cut AA some slack and cheer for the TEAM!

Agree. I think it's funny how some always use the criticism that he's a MAC level talent QB, yet the MAC QB,s keep beating us. And there are a few MAC qb's in the NFL.

 

[Summy1]

One thing I'd say is that 2 of those 3 were not exactly high-ranking QBs. Appleby chose Purdue over some MAC schools. So quite frankly - they're probably playing/have played at the level you'd expect. Etling was literally thrown into a lion's den holding a ribeye - his issues were mental and they should have never pulled his redshirt so late into a season.

Now, is this a defense of QB coach? No, not at all. There's not a lot of positives to say about that position over the last several years.

But part of the issue is talent too. You gotta remember - Kyle Orton wasn't always loved on this board - and he was one of the best recruits we've gotten in the last 20 years. He was a top 25 player nationally. The players we have currently - and have had the last several years - are nowhere near the talent/depth we've had further back.

Again, that certainly doesn't excuse a QB coach or head coach because they're also in charge of recruiting.

Overall, our expectations are a BMW and we're driving around with Hyundais. Not bad cars - but certainly not top of the line.

I don't think our expectations are too high. Appleby throws 4 int. Sunday. My expectation for him is to be good, not great. If he takes what the defense gives him and be smart about things, I think he can be okay. Sometimes it seems that our QB is just lost out there. Too many over throws and not making their mind up.

Redshirting Sindelar is the best option I think. He has talent and maybe he can be the next best QB for Purdue?

 

[tigerchump]

I don't think our expectations are too high. Appleby throws 4 int. Sunday. My expectation for him is to be good, not great. If he takes what the defense gives him and be smart about things, I think he can be okay. Sometimes it seems that our QB is just lost out there. Too many over throws and not making their mind up.

Redshirting Sindelar is the best option I think. He has talent and maybe he can be the next best QB for Purdue?

I think playing Sindelar this year would be insane,unless AA and Blough get hurt.

 

[Travisty13]

Appleby was a 3 star recruit, an elite 11 QB, and some major schools showed interest in him (do your research before you spout off). Plus this:

North Canton Hoover quarterback Austin Appleby earned the top spot in OhioVarsity.com's quarterback rankings. Who else made the list?​

He works his tail off, spends much time in the film room and in my opinion, will eventually be quite good for Purdue. I watched Jim Everette come in against ND (hate to even type that) and fumble 3 successive snaps.

For those of you that worship at the feet of Drew Brees:

All four were virtual unknowns coming out of high school. None of them showed up in national recruiting service rankings. Three of them carried no stars with them to Purdue (Brees), Bloomsburg (Evans) and Hofstra (Colston).​

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/02/saints_as_high_school_recruits.html

Plus, Drew Brees had an offensive line that had 3 eventual NFL lineman playing.


Cut AA some slack and cheer for the TEAM!

And what were those OLineman's stars coming out of HS? I'm going to bet, they weren't any higher rated than the line we have now. Face it, it's about coaching these kids up. While Tiller's staff did just that, Hazell and his staff have not.

 

[lbodel]

Appleby was a 3 star recruit, an elite 11 QB, and some major schools showed interest in him (do your research before you spout off). Plus this:

North Canton Hoover quarterback Austin Appleby earned the top spot in OhioVarsity.com's quarterback rankings. Who else made the list?​

He works his tail off, spends much time in the film room and in my opinion, will eventually be quite good for Purdue. I watched Jim Everette come in against ND (hate to even type that) and fumble 3 successive snaps.

For those of you that worship at the feet of Drew Brees:

All four were virtual unknowns coming out of high school. None of them showed up in national recruiting service rankings. Three of them carried no stars with them to Purdue (Brees), Bloomsburg (Evans) and Hofstra (Colston).​

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/02/saints_as_high_school_recruits.html

Plus, Drew Brees had an offensive line that had 3 eventual NFL lineman playing.


Cut AA some slack and cheer for the TEAM!

First off, I'm not ripping Appleby. If you've read any of my posts - I am the one saying calling for a new QB right now is a bit silly.

Appleby is a decent QB. Was he highly recruited? Absolutely not. To pretend like he was some major get and all these other power 5 conference schools were after him is just not true. Nothing wrong with it - but he's not a Kyle Orton in terms of talent like we expect. Quite frankly, I think many fans have a view of Purdue that is not reality. Just because we had Drew Brees 15 years ago doesn't mean we will always have an amazing QB.

With Drew, he was a well known guy. It is well documented that he was a well known guy. But he had a major injury that caused schools to just lose interest and the Texas/Texas A&Ms didn't want to deal with it.

Also, yes you're exactly right about the offensive line. And Tiller's first true class was one of the highest rated in the Big Ten. Those were talented players and highly recruited players.

 

[nat100]

Appleby was a 3 star recruit, an elite 11 QB, and some major schools showed interest in him (do your research before you spout off). Plus this:

North Canton Hoover quarterback Austin Appleby earned the top spot in OhioVarsity.com's quarterback rankings. Who else made the list?​

Appleby did not end his senior year ranked at the top of Ohio QBs. Tyler OConnor and Maty Mauk were ahead of him.

As for hard work, it can only do so much. When under duress he regresses back to where he was last year. Poor accuracy and poor decision making.

 

[lbodel]

And what were those OLineman's stars coming out of HS? I'm going to bet, they weren't any higher rated than the line we have now. Face it, it's about coaching these kids up. While Tiller's staff did just that, Hazell and his staff have not.

Recruiting stars then weren't as they are today given the birth of the internet over the last 20 years. For example, Rivals rankings do not date back to the mid-1990s.

What I can tell you is that Purdue's recruiting during Tiller's first few years was VERY good. That's one fallacy about the success Purdue had in the late 90s - Purdue had very talented teams. Just because Drew Brees turned out to be a great catch - doesn't mean the rest of the team was a bunch of randos.

For example, the 1998 class was ranked 11th - in the NATION by Tom Lemming and second in the Big Ten. When's the last time we were in the top 40? Let alone just outside the top 10.

That being said - coaching absolutely plays a part. And I've said time and time again, Purdue's "starting 11" isn't necessarily the problem. It's the lack of depth. It's not uncommon for teams to switch out entire lines and sets of linebackers, etc. these days. We do not have anywhere near the depth to be able to do this. It's no wonder we see "4th quarter collapse" as a consistent issue.

There's not just 1 problem on this team.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I don't think anyone has stated the issues come from the offensive line...I would say what we saw from the offensive line is probably one of the better performances we have seen in the last 10 years, as an overall unit, for Purdue. There were zero false starts, holds, etc. from the line and they gave Appleby enough time in the pocket or ways to extend the play to make a good decision. The issue is that the decisions that need to be made aren't being made by the position that needs to make them.

As I stated in another thread, it appears to me AA is making decisions based upon what 'SHOULD' happen instead of what 'IS' happening...essentially to me it screams to much film study instead of just reacting what what is occurring on the field. I'm not saying that watching film is a negative or even too much film is bad but what I am saying is that AA seems to not use is instincts.

I kind of compare it to my first year of teaching: I was incredibly smart textbook wise and knowing how a classroom should operate and knowing how kids should learn, but when I actually got in the class....it was a totally different world. It is vastly different from the idealized world that teaching children is made out to be in textbooks and it probably one of the reasons why many young teachers leave the profession (along with the overall crummy pay).

 

[rgarlitz]

I don't think it's just about the quarterback.

Minnesota has put together back-to-back 8-win seasons with a qb who isn't any more talented than either Appleby or Etling. And, they're doing it with a similar offensive philosophy as Hazel/Shoop and similar talent.

But Jerry Kill is also a veteran coach surrounded by solid assistants who have worked with him for years.

The difference between Minnesota and Purdue these past few years, in my opinion, is the value of solid coaching.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I don't think it's just about the quarterback.

Minnesota has put together back-to-back 8-win seasons with a qb who isn't any more talented than either Appleby or Etling. And, they're doing it with a similar offensive philosophy as Hazel/Shoop and similar talent.

But Jerry Kill is also a veteran coach surrounded by solid assistants who have worked with him for years.

The difference between Minnesota and Purdue these past few years, in my opinion, is the value of solid coaching.

I think the difference is that Minnesota's QB doesn't make mistakes and isn't throwing multiple INT's in every game they play.

 

[rgarlitz]

Fair point, JohnnyDoe, that's certainly part of it. But I don't think interceptions alone accounts for the difference between 16-11 and 4-21.

Again, I think the Minnesota program has enjoyed quite a bit better leadership since Kill arrived.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Not to nit-pick your post Rgar, but off the top of my head I can think of multiple games that were clearly lost due to poor QB play and decision making:

2015: Marshall

2014: Minnesota (2 INT's and lose by 1 point), Indiana (3 INT's and lose by 7), and Iowa (2 INT's and combined 13-32 by both QB's)

2013: MSU (Etling throws a pick and has a fumble returned for TD)...I know that one is a stretch but really that was the only game Purdue was competitive in beyond the win against ISU and the game against ND that season.

If you give Purdue QB play similar to Mitch Leidner from Minny in those games and you win those...Hazel's record is looking much better at 9-16. Not by much but he would hold a win against a top ranked team and would have the Bucket in WL.

The main issue is that the place where improvement is needed the most over the last three seasons has continued to be an issue for the program. Strength and conditioning have clearly gotten better. Intelligence and discipline have gotten better. Skill positions and OL have gotten better. LB's and DL have continued to get better. The QB's not taking the necessary steps forward is what is still holding this program back and arguably putting the rebuild of the program further and further behind. Is it lack of talent or is it lack of coaching? I'm not there every day to say where exactly the issues really stand but I have a general idea that a coach at this level should be able to develop a player to the point of being able to be successful enough to NOT lose games if he doesn't have the ability to go out and win a game. I don't think most of us are expecting Drew Brees or Kyle Orton to walk back on the field...I would take Billy Dicken in a hearth beat though.

 

[Travisty13]

Recruiting stars then weren't as they are today given the birth of the internet over the last 20 years. For example, Rivals rankings do not date back to the mid-1990s.

What I can tell you is that Purdue's recruiting during Tiller's first few years was VERY good. That's one fallacy about the success Purdue had in the late 90s - Purdue had very talented teams. Just because Drew Brees turned out to be a great catch - doesn't mean the rest of the team was a bunch of randos.

For example, the 1998 class was ranked 11th - in the NATION by Tom Lemming and second in the Big Ten. When's the last time we were in the top 40? Let alone just outside the top 10.

That being said - coaching absolutely plays a part. And I've said time and time again, Purdue's "starting 11" isn't necessarily the problem. It's the lack of depth. It's not uncommon for teams to switch out entire lines and sets of linebackers, etc. these days. We do not have anywhere near the depth to be able to do this. It's no wonder we see "4th quarter collapse" as a consistent issue.

There's not just 1 problem on this team.

And what were we ranked by Lemming in Tiller's 1st year? 10th in the Big 10 and not ranked national.

And the 3 NFL offensive linemen Brees had were put into the NFL because of coaching. Matt Light (recruited by Colletto) came to Purdue as a TE and it was Tiller who saw him as an OT. Chukky Okobi (recruited by Colletto) had only 1 scholarship offer coming out of HS. Brandon Gorin (again, recruited by Colletto) was a DT when he came here til Tiller switched him to OL.

So again, this great OL we had was because if coaching. Regardless of ranking at another position, they were coached up to excel by Tiller. Same cannot be said for Hazell and what his staff has done.

Why is it Etling looks bad for us, but LSU gladly takes him? Why did Kevin Pamphile look like a turnstile for us, but the Bucs moved up to draft him in the 5th round? Why did Ricardo Allen seem to regress his years here, but is now a starter at S for Atlanta? Why does Raheem Mostert only get 26 carries after the first 4 games of last season, yet in the NFL preseason he leads everyone in yards? Coaching. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching.

Purdue players are clearly not getting coached up or put in a good position to succeed.

 

[since1980]

Not to nit-pick your post Rgar, but off the top of my head I can think of multiple games that were clearly lost due to poor QB play and decision making:
The main issue is that the place where improvement is needed the most over the last three seasons has continued to be an issue for the program. Strength and conditioning have clearly gotten better. Intelligence and discipline have gotten better. Skill positions and OL have gotten better. LB's and DL have continued to get better. The QB's not taking the necessary steps forward is what is still holding this program back and arguably putting the rebuild of the program further and further behind. Is it lack of talent or is it lack of coaching? I'm not there every day to say where exactly the issues really stand but I have a general idea that a coach at this level should be able to develop a player to the point of being able to be successful enough to NOT lose games if he doesn't have the ability to go out and win a game. I don't think most of us are expecting Drew Brees or Kyle Orton to walk back on the field...I would take Billy Dicken in a hearth beat though.

I very much agree with this...which is why I still am OK with Hazell as I think every other position seems to have become more BIG10 solid since year 1 of his tenure...except QB. If this team had an upper echelon QB, it would make all the difference in the world.

I also think when it comes to Quarterbacks, some guys are just gamers and some guys aren't...which is why I'd like to see what Blough can do for at least a few series against ISU. Some guys are good in practice, doing what they are supposed to do...but when the lights come on against another team in front of screaming fans, some guys rise to the occasion and some guys don't process it as well.

Elliot was a gamer. Dicken was a gamer. Marve was definitely a gamer.
Also, a QB needs to be accurate and needs to have touch. Not everything needs to be thrown 100%. I was shocked at how well our guys did catching those short screen passes that Appleby fired to him from 5 yards away.

I don't think you can say that Purdue players aren't being coached up to be successful. I think right now it's 1 position that is holding us back, and it's really difficult to say if thats on the player, the coach, or both.

 

[Summy1]

And what were we ranked by Lemming in Tiller's 1st year? 10th in the Big 10 and not ranked national.

And the 3 NFL offensive linemen Brees had were put into the NFL because of coaching. Matt Light (recruited by Colletto) came to Purdue as a TE and it was Tiller who saw him as an OT. Chukky Okobi (recruited by Colletto) had only 1 scholarship offer coming out of HS. Brandon Gorin (again, recruited by Colletto) was a DT when he came here til Tiller switched him to OL.

So again, this great OL we had was because if coaching. Regardless of ranking at another position, they were coached up to excel by Tiller. Same cannot be said for Hazell and what his staff has done.

Why is it Etling looks bad for us, but LSU gladly takes him? Why did Kevin Pamphile look like a turnstile for us, but the Bucs moved up to draft him in the 5th round? Why did Ricardo Allen seem to regress his years here, but is now a starter at S for Atlanta? Why does Raheem Mostert only get 26 carries after the first 4 games of last season, yet in the NFL preseason he leads everyone in yards? Coaching. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching.

Purdue players are clearly not getting coached up or put in a good position to succeed.

I have to agree with you that the QB position is not being coached correctly. I use to be like everyone else and think maybe it was Etling that wasn't getting the job done. Now it is Appleby that is in the same position and people are calling for Blough. At some point you have to stop looking at the QB and start looking at the coaching. I don't know a whole lot about Shoop but maybe he just isn't getting the job done.

 

[KentuckyBoiler]

QB was not a strength of his at Chicago. Of course, it is not a strength now and for several years at Chicago.

 

[Travisty13]

I have to agree with you that the QB position is not being coached correctly. I use to be like everyone else and think maybe it was Etling that wasn't getting the job done. Now it is Appleby that is in the same position and people are calling for Blough. At some point you have to stop looking at the QB and start looking at the coaching. I don't know a whole lot about Shoop but maybe he just isn't getting the job done.

I agree. At one point we thought we had an embarrassment of riches at the QB position, 2 Elite 11 QBs and Etling a 4* top 100 recruit. Thought we were set there, now Etling has been under-coached and left, Appleby hasn't looked great, and now people calling for Blough. It all points in 1 direction and that's coaching. Burke said he hired Hazell to bring back the "Cradle of Quarterbacks", when really he/Shoop have made our QB play a laughingstock.

 

[lbodel]

And what were we ranked by Lemming in Tiller's 1st year? 10th in the Big 10 and not ranked national.

And the 3 NFL offensive linemen Brees had were put into the NFL because of coaching. Matt Light (recruited by Colletto) came to Purdue as a TE and it was Tiller who saw him as an OT. Chukky Okobi (recruited by Colletto) had only 1 scholarship offer coming out of HS. Brandon Gorin (again, recruited by Colletto) was a DT when he came here til Tiller switched him to OL.

So again, this great OL we had was because if coaching. Regardless of ranking at another position, they were coached up to excel by Tiller. Same cannot be said for Hazell and what his staff has done.

Why is it Etling looks bad for us, but LSU gladly takes him? Why did Kevin Pamphile look like a turnstile for us, but the Bucs moved up to draft him in the 5th round? Why did Ricardo Allen seem to regress his years here, but is now a starter at S for Atlanta? Why does Raheem Mostert only get 26 carries after the first 4 games of last season, yet in the NFL preseason he leads everyone in yards? Coaching. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching.

Purdue players are clearly not getting coached up or put in a good position to succeed.

Do you follow any of my posts? Something you won't find:

1. Me saying we have great coaches.
2. Me saying we should switch QBs
3. Me saying our QBs have been coached well
4. Me saying the coaches handled Danny Etling well (I've been critical of pulling his redshirt since it has happened when many people were all for it - not after he regressed)
4. That players cannot develop

But we also do NOT have the talent level - AND depth - needed to sustain winning seasons. Tiller inherited some good players his first year - Colletto had some talented players. We have literally been at the bottom of the Big Ten year after year in recruiting - it's not a coincidence that our play has been pretty similar. Our offensive line was also successful for a number of years - not just because of 3 players. We had one of the best units - depth included - in the country. But you can't just turn your head at us having a top 15 recruiting class in the country and say it didn't matter - when we're hanging at #13…in the Big Ten. You can't just brush that off like it doesn't matter.

We're getting killed more-so by lack of depth - not our starting 11. When you don't have players pushing each other, it's not going to be good. Our back-ups just feel lucky to be at Purdue - and most don't have another P-5 offer. We'll probably celebrate beating Indiana State like we just made the college football playoff.