Purdue players and national anthem

[TC4THREE]

Since the recruiting discussion is just running in circles at this point, I thought I'd bring up a different topic.

How would you feel if some of our players decided to not stand for the national anthem next season?

What I don't want to debate is their RIGHT to do so. I don't think many people, if any, would deny they have the right.

I'm just curious to what your reaction to it would be and what you think the fan reaction would be to it in general. Would it matter how good the player was who chose to do it? Would someone like Swanigan elicit a different reaction than a player with lower expectations?

I'm sure this will happen in college somewhere. It wouldn't stun me at all if a player or players on Purdue decided to do this. I have some very specific thoughts on this but I'm curious what others think.

 

[BBG]

As someone that served I view it as a slant to veterans of all races and it ticks me off. If any of our players do it, I wouldn't "hate" them but be very disappointed.

 

[mryankee2397]

altho they have the right to do so , i disagree with that kind of protest . i think it is a slap in the face to everyone and especially to those who served in our armed forces. i dont care which player(s) did it , i would be disappointed if anyone on a purdue team protested in that manner.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

It sickening to see these self-entitled players spit on everyone that has ever served when they do this. Make no mistake, Kaepperdick only did it to draw attention to himself because he was about to get cut from the 49ers because he sucks. Now they can't cut him because of what he is doing or they will be viewed as racist/rights squasher/etc.

I got my undergrad at the point and am working on my masters at Purdue currently. But in between there I served active duty for several years and this has been a discussion between me and some of my brothers in arms and every single one of them would like to slap the crap out of Kaepperdick. And those comments come in all races and sizes.

The difference to me if someone on Purdue's team did it is that they bought in to the fake cause Kaepperdick is trying to associate to the anthem so while I would be highly disappointed, I wouldn't have nearly the angst I have for Kapperdick towards them.

 

[tjreese]

Since the recruiting discussion is just running in circles at this point, I thought I'd bring up a different topic.

How would you feel if some of our players decided to not stand for the national anthem next season?

What I don't want to debate is their RIGHT to do so. I don't think many people, if any, would deny they have the right.

I'm just curious to what your reaction to it would be and what you think the fan reaction would be to it in general. Would it matter how good the player was who chose to do it? Would someone like Swanigan elicit a different reaction than a player with lower expectations?

I'm sure this will happen in college somewhere. It wouldn't stun me at all if a player or players on Purdue decided to do this. I have some very specific thoughts on this but I'm curious what others think.

It would stun me! I expect the culture to be of higher character. The whole situation is based upon a false narrative and someone that holds erroneous information that denigrates hundreds of thousands that fought for freedom and opportunity from the revolutionary until now elicits a sign of stupidity and ineptness. The USA has warts, no doubt..but to dismiss the sacrifices of so many over so many years as a result of some false narrative, simply gives the overt appearance of someone too dumb to be at Purdue. Pick another cause that is supported by real evidence and battle that, not a blanket denigration of the USA on the whole...

 

[FirstDownB]

Honestly, I think this is another fad that dies out before it hits Purdue. Reminds me of the basketball players wearing the tee shirts. The glaring weakness of this particular movement, other than the fact it is centered around a backup QB going up against a time honored symbol of patriotism and respect, is the lack of a concrete set of demands. What exactly is the goal? No one seems to know because no one is being specific. Colin says he will stand up when he feels he has seen change. Translation: He wants to move the goal posts wherever and whenever he wants. Eventually people will lose interest, the media will move on to something else, and he and his fellow squatters will find a way to claim victory so they can resume standing while saving face. I predict it will carry into the NBA for a few weeks, maybe hit a few of the trendy college programs, and just after election time (no small coincidence) by the holidays it will fade into obscurity.

 

[sixpackpete]

altho they have the right to do so , i disagree with that kind of protest . i think it is a slap in the face to everyone and especially to those who served in our armed forces. i dont care which player(s) did it , i would be disappointed if anyone on a purdue team protested in that manner.

Mr Yank,
I agree to all but the first point.

It is their right to do it when they are on their own.

When they are in uniform, suited up to represent Purdue then they ONLY have that right if it falls within the coach's and the schools code of conduct.

As an employee I cannot go out and do something that will embarass my employer and not expect there to ber retrobution.

It is not a free speech issue, it is an ethics issue.

Disrespect anything you want on YOUR time if you feel you must, but don't do it while representing OUR school!!!

 

[Secrefreakintariat]

Your Constitutional rights don't go away when you clock into work...or suit up for a team. It would very interesting to see how Painter would handle it.

I'm not black so I don't feel qualified to judge someone for taking this stand, no matter how offensive I may personally find it to be.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Your Constitutional rights don't go away when you clock into work...or suit up for a team. It would very interesting to see how Painter would handle it.

I'm not black so I don't feel qualified to judge someone for taking this stand, no matter how offensive I may personally find it to be.

lol bro...yes they do. My 1st and 2nd amendment rights are absolutely suspended at work.

 

[djy2j]

I would be shocked if one of the players did it. I really doubt any of them would.

Also to say Kaepernick did it to draw attention to himself because he sucks and was about to get cut is about as laughable as anything I have read on this board. If you read the interviews with him he clearly states why he's doing it. Furthermore the dude asked for a trade in the offseason so to say he did it to stay on the team doesn't make the least bit of sense.

 

[Mandeville LA]

As far as I see it is totally up to Painter's stance. He decides. He could say I am fine with you not standing. Or he could say you stand or you don't play.

It would be very unwise to disrespect the country in West Lafayette. A bunch of Vets in the area that pay to be at the games.

 

[BBG]

lol bro...yes they do. Might 1st and 2nd amendment rights are absolutely suspended at work.

Yep. That is why there are cases where people have been fired for putting things on Facebook about a company.

For me it was clear as day in the agreement I signed to work where I do now.

 

[TC4THREE]

It would stun me! I expect the culture to be of higher character. The whole situation is based upon a false narrative and someone that holds erroneous information that denigrates hundreds of thousands that fought for freedom and opportunity from the revolutionary until now elicits a sign of stupidity and ineptness. The USA has warts, no doubt..but to dismiss the sacrifices of so many over so many years as a result of some false narrative, simply gives the overt appearance of someone too dumb to be at Purdue. Pick another cause that is supported by real evidence and battle that, not a blanket denigration of the USA on the whole...

This is pretty much how I feel about the "movement" but unfortunately it would not stun me at all. I'm almost expecting it.

Regarding the movement in general, if people were to do this for every issue that bothered someone we might as well do away with the national anthem altogether because everyone sees problems in this country that bother them. I have serious issues with the fiscal irresponsibility of our government that drive me up a wall. My time to protest that is at the ballot box, in political discussions, or through other efforts that are done on my own time.

I might also add that it is very ironic when athletes and entertainers are the ones to speak out against the oppression of minorities. These are people that are given a place so high in our society that it is actually news to millions of people that they don't stand for the national anthem. Some of these athletes are famous and making millions of dollars playing a game and they are the people to talk about oppression? In a way I think it is really counterproductive and somewhat selfish for these people to try to make this issue about themselves. It's like, "Hey look at me! I'm such a good person because I'm against bad stuff that other people experience so I'm going to do something that is offensive to many just to make sure everyone knows I'm against bad stuff that happens to others."

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

lol bro...yes they do. Might 1st and 2nd amendment rights are absolutely suspended at work.

"Your Constitutional rights don't go away when you clock into work...or suit up for a team. It would very interesting to see how Painter would handle it.

I'm not black so I don't feel qualified to judge someone for taking this stand, no matter how offensive I may personally find it to be."

What we have here I believe is a failure to communicate......among our posters.

From my understanding, the constitutionally protected right generally applies only to a "freedom" from "governmental" (or quasi-governmental) intervention or consequences (like a fine or imprisonment). So although one has a constitutionally protected right (sometimes as interpreted through the courts), that doesn't mean one may not have other consequences (such as from an employer, private citizens, or businesses, etc.). Keep in mind that none of these so-called freedoms are absolute. Reasonable restrictions or exceptions have been developed/handed down over the years based upon various circumstances.

I disagree with Kaepernick's choice of form of protest being the national anthem, but I do agree that he has the right to the protest. I wish he would/could have found another way to express his message.....I try to give him the benefit of the doubt in that this may have been the only way (in his mind/eyes) to be "effectively" heard; however, I struggle with that in two ways......if that were the case, he should have been clear up front about it the first time he spoke and made clear his support for the flag and the military.....JMO on that......second, it's hard to give him full credibility when you saw the "pig police socks" he wore in practice......that's just inflammatory to me. And although the San Francisco 49ers are stuck a little between a rock and a hard place for now.....he is their back-up (an expensive one at that)....Kaepernick has probably limited some of his opportunities if/when he is released, or if he wants to be traded.

I've pretty much not paid attention to this story lately.....and think it will dissipate even more.....but, I will take Kaepernick at his word that he will take further steps and make a contribution to work toward solutions and improvements.....we shall see.

I am Caucasian.....I am disappointed with the current state of race relations in America from all sides....I think there is so much more that can be accomplished for everyone.....but throwing gasoline on the fire is not going to help.....IMO......that's all I care to write at this point on this forum.

Thank you for all who have served in the military and for our country.....I cannot truly show my full appreciation enough. Thank you all who have served in local law enforcement.....it's becoming more and more a thankless job, and that is beyond sad.

I understand and respect that some/many may disagree.

Back to basic board matters......Boiler Up!

Better days ahead.......basketball season is just a couple of months away, and the Board can have a whole new set of "discussions."

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

"Your Constitutional rights don't go away when you clock into work...or suit up for a team. It would very interesting to see how Painter would handle it.

I'm not black so I don't feel qualified to judge someone for taking this stand, no matter how offensive I may personally find it to be."

What we have here I believe is a failure to communicate......among our posters.

From my understanding, the constitutionally protected right generally applies only to a "freedom" from "governmental" (or quasi-governmental) intervention or consequences (like a fine or imprisonment). So although one has a constitutionally protected right (sometimes as interpreted through the courts), that doesn't mean one may not have other consequences (such as from an employer, private citizens, or businesses, etc.). Keep in mind that none of these so-called freedoms are absolute. Reasonable restrictions or exceptions have been developed/handed down over the years based upon various circumstances.

I disagree with Kaepernick's choice of form of protest being the national anthem, but I do agree that he has the right to the protest. I wish he would/could have found another way to express his message.....I try to give him the benefit of the doubt in that this may have been the only way (in his mind/eyes) to be "effectively" heard; however, I struggle with that in two ways......if that were the case, he should have been clear up front about it the first time he spoke and made clear his support for the flag and the military.....JMO on that......second, it's hard to give him full credibility when you saw the "pig police socks" he wore in practice......that's just inflammatory to me. And although the San Francisco 49ers are stuck a little between a rock and a hard place for now.....he is their back-up (an expensive one at that)....Kaepernick has probably limited some of his opportunities if/when he is released, or if he wants to be traded.

I've pretty much not paid attention to this story lately.....and think it will dissipate even more.....but, I will take Kaepernick at his word that he will take further steps and make a contribution to work toward solutions and improvements.....we shall see.

I am Caucasian.....I am disappointed with the current state of race relations in America from all sides....I think there is so much more that can be accomplished for everyone.....but throwing gasoline on the fire is not going to help.....IMO......that's all I care to write at this point on this forum.

Thank you for all who have served in the military and for our country.....I cannot truly show my full appreciation enough. Thank you all who have served in local law enforcement.....it's becoming more and more a thankless job, and that is beyond sad.

I understand and respect that some/many may disagree.

Back to basic board matters......Boiler Up!

Better days ahead.......basketball season is just a couple of months away, and the Board can have a whole new set of "discussions."

no no. There are "governmental" rules and penalties. I am limited in the type of political speech I can show at work. There is this thing called the Hatch Act. I certainly can't keep my legal fire arm on my person or in my car at work. And I'm pretty sure they would fire me for being disrespectful to the country.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

no no. There are "governmental" rules and penalties. I am limited in the type of political speech I can show at work. There is this thing called the Hatch Act. I certainly can't keep my legal fire arm on my person or in my car at work. And I'm pretty sure they would fire me for being disrespectful to the country.

TSB,

Didn't realize you work in government.....Is that the case? If so, yes, the Hatch Act has additional limitations from what I know. Governmental employees have separate issues/concerns......again.....all based upon reasonable restrictions/limitations on 1st amendment rights.

What I probably should have said/written.....is that they don't go away entirely, but they can be limited further (especially for federal employees) (or subject to consequences if a private employer).....otherwise, I think we're on the same page......

You say "too-may-toe".......I say "too-mah-toe"

 

[Mandeville LA]

Check out how Buzz Williams's take on how he expects his players to respond to the anthem. You tube it. It worth watching. I would link it but can't figure out how to do from you tube.

 

[Secrefreakintariat]

Well yeah, I was referring to the pledge issue in particular...you're certainly correct in that there are reasonable limitations. To my knowledge, the pledge issue was decided by the Supreme Court in the 1940's.

 

[tjreese]

lol bro...yes they do. My 1st and 2nd amendment rights are absolutely suspended at work.

I can't bring a gun to work either.

 

[tjreese]

Check out how Buzz Williams's take on how he expects his players to respond to the anthem. You tube it. It worth watching. I would link it but can't figure out how to do from you tube.

 

[Mandeville LA]

You good!

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

TSB,

Didn't realize you work in government.....Is that the case? If so, yes, the Hatch Act has additional limitations from what I know. Governmental employees have separate issues/concerns......again.....all based upon reasonable restrictions/limitations on 1st amendment rights.

What I probably should have said/written.....is that they don't go away entirely, but they can be limited further (especially for federal employees) (or subject to consequences if a private employer).....otherwise, I think we're on the same page......

You say "too-may-toe".......I say "too-mah-toe"

I just think it's entirely misleading to say people can do whatever they want while on the job because it's a constitutional right. It is certainly not the case in most places. as far as this national anthem things goes, I think it's stupid and ultimately worthless to the cause, but I don't really care. I'm not gonna protest the protest. lol

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I just think it's entirely misleading to say people can do whatever they want while on the job because it's a constitutional right. It is certainly not the case in most places. as far as this national anthem things goes, I think it's stupid and ultimately worthless to the cause, but I don't really care. I'm not gonna protest the protest. lol

I hear you....I also think some of this is from the availability of the media resources and the "24 hours/day" "news" cycle.....but it's also the same technology/media that allows some of us to watch the Boilers more often than before (except for BTN2Go).

 

[BoilerDeac]

It sickening to see these self-entitled players spit on everyone that has ever served when they do this. Make no mistake, Kaepperdick only did it to draw attention to himself because he was about to get cut from the 49ers because he sucks. Now they can't cut him because of what he is doing or they will be viewed as racist/rights squasher/etc.

I got my undergrad at the point and am working on my masters at Purdue currently. But in between there I served active duty for several years and this has been a discussion between me and some of my brothers in arms and every single one of them would like to slap the crap out of Kaepperdick. And those comments come in all races and sizes.

The difference to me if someone on Purdue's team did it is that they bought in to the fake cause Kaepperdick is trying to associate to the anthem so while I would be highly disappointed, I wouldn't have nearly the angst I have for Kapperdick towards them.

No, he didn't do it to draw attention to himself. Have you listened to his explanation at all? Come on, man.

 

[Heller]

I fail to see all the hoopla about this. But then I could give a healthy dump what Kapernack, Tim Robbins, Sarandon, Clooney or any other celebrity does. When people realize that the proper response is fork Kapernack and the horse he rode in on, wake me up.

 

[mryankee2397]

Mr Yank,
I agree to all but the first point.

It is their right to do it when they are on their own.

When they are in uniform, suited up to represent Purdue then they ONLY have that right if it falls within the coach's and the schools code of conduct.

As an employee I cannot go out and do something that will embarass my employer and not expect there to ber retrobution.

It is not a free speech issue, it is an ethics issue.

Disrespect anything you want on YOUR time if you feel you must, but don't do it while representing OUR school!!!

there are always consequences to ones actions but they still have the right to object.

 

[boiler62]

Agree yank2397! But they should know the conseqequence going in and that would be if you sit during the NA then you sit during the game!

 

[Dakota Girl]

Your Constitutional rights don't go away when you clock into work...or suit up for a team. It would very interesting to see how Painter would handle it.

I'm not black so I don't feel qualified to judge someone for taking this stand, no matter how offensive I may personally find it to be.

They still have the right to make that choice. The employer or the school in this topic has the right to discipline them according to their standards. Your employment or scholarship are not rights. They are a privelage that must be continuously earned.

 

[Mcluck]

As someone that served I view it as a slant to veterans of all races and it ticks me off. If any of our players do it, I wouldn't "hate" them but be very disappointed.

As someone who served I feel as free speech was one of the reasons I served. I also think calling these kids employees is disingenuous since universities fight so hard not to pay them. Basically, I couldn't care less what they choose to do. I find it amusing that people think standing once a week for a song defines patriotism or respect in any case.

 

[choptalk]

I would be shocked if one of the players did it. I really doubt any of them would.

Also to say Kaepernick did it to draw attention to himself because he sucks and was about to get cut is about as laughable as anything I have read on this board. If you read the interviews with him he clearly states why he's doing it. Furthermore the dude asked for a trade in the offseason so to say he did it to stay on the team doesn't make the least bit of sense.

For him to talk oppression after being seen wearing a tshirt displaying Fidel Castro is extremely hypocritical.
I would be extremely disappointed in any player doing that.

 

[tjreese]

As someone who served I feel as free speech was one of the reasons I served. I also think calling these kids employees is disingenuous since universities fight so hard not to pay them. Basically, I couldn't care less what they choose to do. I find it amusing that people think standing once a week for a song defines patriotism or respect in any case.

I cannot recall anyone "thinking" rather than "feeling" that free speech should not be allowed. I think the question was the appropriate consequences for it from the public, and as you can tell there are different opinions. Personally, I respect those that stand on an edge and make a stand, but in this case there wasn't a lot of brain power put into this stand...not a lot of empirical evidence to support his "feelings" as legitimate thought. I'll sleep no matter what he does, but not a lot of brain activity going on between his and his supporters ears. Then again...average is not very bright and 50% are below average...

 

[TC4THREE]

Indiana Fever all decided they wanted to make a statement last night. Already talk that the Pacers might as well. I'm telling you, I won't be surprised whatsoever if a Purdue player does it.

 

[choptalk]

Indiana Fever all decided they wanted to make a statement last night. Already talk that the Pacers might as well. I'm telling you, I won't be surprised whatsoever if a Purdue player does it.

I wasn't much of a Fever fan to begin with. Now I'm glad they lost.

 

[FirstDownB]

NBA is taking some steps to plan for protests. Sounds like this plan will include mutually agreed upon alternatives to national anthem protest. NCAA might be wise to follow suit.

www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17608163/nba-players-union-eye-options-anthem-protests

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Indiana Fever all decided they wanted to make a statement last night. Already talk that the Pacers might as well. I'm telling you, I won't be surprised whatsoever if a Purdue player does it.

Another interesting piece of information on this is the Fever's coach is Stephanie White, former member of Purdue's Women's 1999 NCAA championship team and also College Player of the Year. She is in her last year with the Fever after having accepted the head coaching position for Vanderbilt's women's team earlier this year.

From a USA Today piece:

"Fever coach Stephanie White encouraged her team in the huddle after the anthem, according to ESPN’s Mechelle Voepel:

“I’m proud of y’all for doing that together, being in that together. That’s big. That’s big. It’s bigger than basketball, right? Bigger than basketball.”"

 

[TC4THREE]

Another interesting piece of information on this is the Fever's coach is Stephanie White, former member of Purdue's Women's 1999 NCAA championship team and also College Player of the Year. She is in her last year with the Fever after having accepted the head coaching position for Vanderbilt's women's team earlier this year.

From a USA Today piece:

"Fever coach Stephanie White encouraged her team in the huddle after the anthem, according to ESPN’s Mechelle Voepel:

“I’m proud of y’all for doing that together, being in that together. That’s big. That’s big. It’s bigger than basketball, right? Bigger than basketball.”"

Have to say I'm disappointed but not surprised about that.

 

[choptalk]

Have to say I'm disappointed but not surprised about that.

I'm really sorry to hear that. My opinion of her just went down.

 

[klmLB]

My 2 cents.

I think kneeling at the anthem is a very divisive and polarizing way to protest because of all the metaphorical and symbolic connotations that one can take from such a stand. Many of us have relatives who have served proudly in the military for our freedoms (including my family) and even lost their lives (I'm fortunate that this hasn't happened in my family). So, kneeling during the anthem can be offensive and hurtful to many.

There are many good law enforcement officers who are ethical and treat all our citizens equally and fairly. We should commend, respect and applaud those officers. Being a police officer is a difficult and stressful job that requires critical decision making at a split second.

However, I hope we can all see that there is a big problem with a small percentage of our officers that are supposed to protect our society and citizens that are not doing so. There are a disproportionate amount of black men who are being killed by officers when there doesn't appear to be the circumstances to justify it. I'm not black and 15 years ago, I probably wouldn't understand or believe it. However, with the video footage of these situations available for all to see, I cannot believe what I'm witnessing. I can't process it.

There may be a better way to protest it, but in a way maybe there isn't because it deserves more thought and discussion than it's getting and the protest in this manner is at least getting people to focus on it.

I agree with Steve Kerr in this article:

http://theundefeated.com/features/steve-kerr-kaepernick-warriors/
http://theundefeated.com/features/steve-kerr-kaepernick-warriors/
Some interesting thoughts from Shannon Sharpe with a military context here (first 2:10 of video):



We live in a great country, but it doesn't mean there aren't problems with our country and we can't be a better country. I hope we strive to be a better country and look at these serious issues, so that we can address them so they don't happen again.

 

[TC4THREE]

We live in a great country, but it doesn't mean there aren't problems with our country and we can't be a better country. I hope we strive to be a better country and look at these serious issues, so that we can address them so they don't happen again.

This is true but if the only time you want to show respect to the country is when it is completely devoid of problems..............good luck with that.

 

[klmLB]

This is true but if the only time you want to show respect to the country is when it is completely devoid of problems..............good luck with that.

I never said that. In fact, I said that there are probably better ways to protest such a stance.