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Purdue Backcourt

BoilerDaddy

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Mar 26, 2009
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While the Purdue frontcourt is already receiving some much deserved recognition this off-season, the Purdue backcourt isn't getting a whole lot of respect. That said, I am very excited to see what the Purdue backcourt can do this season.

I'm a big fan of the way that Dakota Mathias played in the second half of last season and I think that he might be one of the most underrated players in the conference. I think that his defense is better than he gets credit for and on offense, he's a really good complimentary player. When Purdue needs a big shot, I trust Mathias more than any other player on the team. As much as I admired Ray Davis, his senior season was a struggle, perhaps because of injury. I think that the Purdue offense will flow much better with Mathias at the 2 than it did last season with Davis and the drop-off defensively will not be as great as many Purdue fans fear.

At point guard, I really think that PJ will prove to be solid. Like Mathias, he's a complimentary player, but like Mathias, he will bury the big shot when he is open. I think that he'll continue to take care of the ball and as he makes incremental improvements in his body, he'll prove to be a more reliable option in pressure situations, as well as an improved defender.

I think that PJ and Mathias will give Purdue its best starting backcourt since LewJack and Smith were seniors, but it is Carson Edwards who I look forward to seeing most. I think he'll be ready to contribute significantly this season, proving a great spark off of the bench. While Mathias and PJ are more complimentary players, Edwards is more of a playmaker who is capable of putting a lot of pressure on the D. I love his quick release and his ability to get to the rim.

Spike is a little hard to get a read on, but I think that he'll be a very valuable and steady option at point guard.

I think that Cline will spend a lot of time backing up the three, but I still think of him as a 2 and I think that he'll prove to be one of the better shooters in the country, as his all around game improves.

Overall, I think that Purdue guard play will be very respectable this season and I am excited to see it.
 
Post removed. I was commenting that I forgot about Octeus/Davis two years ago, but then I remembered that Davis played the 3 two years ago, so I stand by my statement that I think that PJ/Mathias will be Purdue's best starting backcourt since LewJack/Smith.
 
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While the Purdue frontcourt is already receiving some much deserved recognition this off-season, the Purdue backcourt isn't getting a whole lot of respect. That said, I am very excited to see what the Purdue backcourt can do this season.

I'm a big fan of the way that Dakota Mathias played in the second half of last season and I think that he might be one of the most underrated players in the conference. I think that his defense is better than he gets credit for and on offense, he's a really good complimentary player. When Purdue needs a big shot, I trust Mathias more than any other player on the team. As much as I admired Ray Davis, his senior season was a struggle, perhaps because of injury. I think that the Purdue offense will flow much better with Mathias at the 2 than it did last season with Davis and the drop-off defensively will not be as great as many Purdue fans fear.

At point guard, I really think that PJ will prove to be solid. Like Mathias, he's a complimentary player, but like Mathias, he will bury the big shot when he is open. I think that he'll continue to take care of the ball and as he makes incremental improvements in his body, he'll prove to be a more reliable option in pressure situations, as well as an improved defender.

I think that PJ and Mathias will give Purdue its best starting backcourt since LewJack and Smith were seniors, but it is Carson Edwards who I look forward to seeing most. I think he'll be ready to contribute significantly this season, proving a great spark off of the bench. While Mathias and PJ are more complimentary players, Edwards is more of a playmaker who is capable of putting a lot of pressure on the D. I love his quick release and his ability to get to the rim.

Spike is a little hard to get a read on, but I think that he'll be a very valuable and steady option at point guard.

I think that Cline will spend a lot of time backing up the three, but I still think of him as a 2 and I think that he'll prove to be one of the better shooters in the country, as his all around game improves.

Overall, I think that Purdue guard play will be very respectable this season and I am excited to see it.

I too think the guard play will be better than the recent past and "better" than the lewjack/smith backcourt. When I think of Dakota, it is his passing that really gets my attention. How he sets up the pass as THAT is on his mind along with his variety of ways in scoring. I expect this team to be better than last year...if dribble containment is as good, and preferably better than last year. Losing AJ was huge, but...
 
Unfortunately, PJ is probably in the bottom quarter of PGs in the B10. He's average at best. Sure, he'll knock down a 3 here and there and he plays pretty good D, but as far as a ballhandler, creator, and being able to get a shot late in the clock, he really struggles.
I know he had a ton of assists but that's because he's just dumping the ball into 7 footers.
 
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Unfortunately, PJ is probably in the bottom quarter of PGs in the B10. He's average at best. Sure, he'll knock down a 3 here and there and he plays pretty good D, but as far as a ballhandler, creator, and being able to get a shot late in the clock, he really struggles.
I know he had a ton of assists but that's because he's just dumping the ball into 7 footers.

In all honesty, beyond Trimble at Maryland and Tum Tum at MSU, what other PG would you take above PJ that has proven himself during the course of the B1G season? He won at least two games for Purdue last season when the shooting went dry and he picked up big buckets, didn't turn the ball over, and set up his teammates. Unless you are clamoring for the next Derrick Rose to come to Purdue and be ball dominate and play a one on one style..what more do you want from a PG who is running a motion offense that involves ALL 5 players? Seriously?

You do realize he rarely turned the ball over last year, correct? You do realize it isn't his job to create a shot late in the clock, right? You do realize the things you have an issue with aren't how he fits in to this team, correct?
 
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In all honesty, beyond Trimble at Maryland and Tum Tum at MSU, what other PG would you take above PJ that has proven himself during the course of the B1G season? He won at least two games for Purdue last season when the shooting went dry and he picked up big buckets, didn't turn the ball over, and set up his teammates. Unless you are clamoring for the next Derrick Rose to come to Purdue and be ball dominate and play a one on one style..what more do you want from a PG who is running a motion offense that involves ALL 5 players? Seriously?

You do realize he rarely turned the ball over last year, correct? You do realize it isn't his job to create a shot late in the clock, right? You do realize the things you have an issue with aren't how he fits in to this team, correct?
I think if people look at his stats, he isn't nearly as bad as he is perceived to be. I was guilty of that as well at one point.
 
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In all honesty, beyond Trimble at Maryland and Tum Tum at MSU, what other PG would you take above PJ that has proven himself during the course of the B1G season? He won at least two games for Purdue last season when the shooting went dry and he picked up big buckets, didn't turn the ball over, and set up his teammates. Unless you are clamoring for the next Derrick Rose to come to Purdue and be ball dominate and play a one on one style..what more do you want from a PG who is running a motion offense that involves ALL 5 players? Seriously?

You do realize he rarely turned the ball over last year, correct? You do realize it isn't his job to create a shot late in the clock, right? You do realize the things you have an issue with aren't how he fits in to this team, correct?

Koenig, Wisconsin, for one.

I think PJT sometimes gets overly criticized, although I do think the assist/turnover ration can be misleading. Nevertheless, PJT did take care of the ball for the most part. Is he all conference? no.....is he a key contributor? yes has he improved? yes does he have limitations? yes he has a great attitude in my book and fits the CMP team player concept. He'll pick his spots and surprise every now and then, but no, he's not probably going to be an all-conference selection.

overall, I think Purdue is better at PG this year, but there is still a question mark and lack of dynamic play-making (at least proven). CE is somewhat of a wildcard, but he's just a freshman, so maybe some tempered realistic expectations might be in order.....though I think he is going to be really good by the time he finishes up.
 
I think that Carsen is the key. I believe we already know what we have with Mathias, Spike, Cline and PJ. 4 steady guys that take care of the ball and are smart on the court. What they lack is the athletic ability to break down a defender and get their shot whenever it's needed. If Carsen proves to be as explosive as he appears to be, I'm very excited about the lineups CMP can put out there.

Worst case is he isn't ready for B1G competition yet and we have 4 good guys to put out there. Best case, he is ready and able and we have a dynamic combination out there most of the time.
 
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Don't worry. By the time the conference season rolls around people here will have realized that Carsen Edwards isn't perfect either and he'll have shortcomings in his game to overcome and some people will have already moved on to projecting the next player they haven't seen play as the greatest of all time when they get here.
 
In all honesty, beyond Trimble at Maryland and Tum Tum at MSU, what other PG would you take above PJ that has proven himself during the course of the B1G season? He won at least two games for Purdue last season when the shooting went dry and he picked up big buckets, didn't turn the ball over, and set up his teammates. Unless you are clamoring for the next Derrick Rose to come to Purdue and be ball dominate and play a one on one style..what more do you want from a PG who is running a motion offense that involves ALL 5 players? Seriously?

You do realize he rarely turned the ball over last year, correct? You do realize it isn't his job to create a shot late in the clock, right? You do realize the things you have an issue with aren't how he fits in to this team, correct?

If you want to play "how many games he won", we can also play "how many games he lost" by his inability to break a press and handle on-the-ball pressure D.
His TO's were low because he very rarely tries to create his own shot. He's a low risk/low reward type of PG.
And I would disagree that his job isn't to get/create a shot late in the shotclock. That should be every PGs job. They're the QB, they're the one who's supposed to have the ball in their hands at crunchtime. If you don't agree, just watch the last 2 tourney losses.
 
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Just no offensive difference makers @ guard. Good solid players for sure in Kline, Mathias & PJT, but a difference maker that can impose his will on the game offensively like Moore or Lewjack, we have not had in awhile. Hopefully, someone needed emerges out there. Will Carsen be that guy?....that is alot to ask of a frosh. Can the experience of PJT, Kline and Mathias help transform them into a player who makes an offensive difference out there at guard? We will see.
 
I too think the guard play will be better than the recent past and "better" than the lewjack/smith backcourt. When I think of Dakota, it is his passing that really gets my attention. How he sets up the pass as THAT is on his mind along with his variety of ways in scoring. I expect this team to be better than last year...if dribble containment is as good, and preferably better than last year. Losing AJ was huge, but...
You may be right, but I think that PJ has a ways to go before I view him being at LewJack's level, so I'm stopping short of declaring PJ/Mathias as better than LewJack/Smith, for now.

I do agree with you about Mathias. His anticipation and attention to detail is off the charts.
 
Unfortunately, PJ is probably in the bottom quarter of PGs in the B10. He's average at best. Sure, he'll knock down a 3 here and there and he plays pretty good D, but as far as a ballhandler, creator, and being able to get a shot late in the clock, he really struggles.
I know he had a ton of assists but that's because he's just dumping the ball into 7 footers.
I get what you are saying and I wouldn't say that he is a top 7 Big Ten point guard yet, either, but I don't take for granted what he does give the team. PJ will never be a highlight real player, but there is something to be said for being reliable. Basketball is about maximizing points per possession and PJ does not waste possessions. PJ makes the simple, high percentage play consistently, which sounds easy, but is an uncommon characteristic. He moves the ball and makes shots, which are very important in a continuity offense. The NBA player that he reminds me of is Derek Fisher (or maybe Steve Kerr), who knew his role and maximized his contribution, given his talent level.

PJ is not going to be that player who single handedly breaks down the defense. I'm ok with that. He's a highly efficient team player in a team structure and other guys need to be the ones to create shots, when needed.

He does need to get better in late game, high pressure situations, but he's not the only one who struggled in those situations. I expect him to do better in those situations as a junior than as a sophomore.
 
Don't worry. By the time the conference season rolls around people here will have realized that Carsen Edwards isn't perfect either and he'll have shortcomings in his game to overcome and some people will have already moved on to projecting the next player they haven't seen play as the greatest of all time when they get here.
I think that there's a lot of hope that he can add a dimension that Purdue doesn't have, but nobody here is projecting Carsen as "the greatest of all time" or anything like that.
 
I think your Lew Jack comments could be a bit premature, but . . in all honesty, I LOVED Lew Jack. When it came to defensive pressure, he was the shredder !

Best ?? I would think it would have to include Carsen. (ie Carsen/PJ. , Carsen/Spike, or Carsen/Dakota)
 
Spike is tough to get a read on for sure. I think we will see Spike at his best in a game where he can have a "one shining moment" type effect. When the Boilers need it most.
 
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I think your Lew Jack comments could be a bit premature, but . . in all honesty, I LOVED Lew Jack. When it came to defensive pressure, he was the shredder !

Best ?? I would think it would have to include Carsen. (ie Carsen/PJ. , Carsen/Spike, or Carsen/Dakota)
I'm not putting Carsen in the starting line-up yet, but it will not surprise me if he eventually starts opposite Mathias.
 
I get what you are saying and I wouldn't say that he is a top 7 Big Ten point guard yet, either, but I don't take for granted what he does give the team. PJ will never be a highlight real player, but there is something to be said for being reliable. Basketball is about maximizing points per possession and PJ does not waste possessions. PJ makes the simple, high percentage play consistently, which sounds easy, but is an uncommon characteristic. He moves the ball and makes shots, which are very important in a continuity offense. The NBA player that he reminds me of is Derek Fisher (or maybe Steve Kerr), who knew his role and maximized his contribution, given his talent level.

PJ is not going to be that player who single handedly breaks down the defense. I'm ok with that. He's a highly efficient team player in a team structure and other guys need to be the ones to create shots, when needed.

He does need to get better in late game, high pressure situations, but he's not the only one who struggled in those situations. I expect him to do better in those situations as a junior than as a sophomore.

I would agree with everything you said. I'm not trying to bag on him. PJ does what's asked of him and some of us just wish he were able to do more but he is limited athletically. I do think he's a really good on ball defender and I like the fight and moxey he shows. He's a much better shooter than LewJack but LJ was much faster, better ball handler and could finish.
 
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I think that there's a lot of hope that he can add a dimension that Purdue doesn't have, but nobody here is projecting Carsen as "the greatest of all time" or anything like that.

It was a hyperbole about how people view recruits/players on this board although I did see one guy predict that he leaves early for the NBA.

People here build players up before they get here then once they get here they spend time picking apart their game and highlighting the things they can't do rather than recognizing their value for the things they do bring to the table. I agree that Carsen looks to have a different skillset than our other guards and that it could prove to be helpful. That said, Carsen probably has his own liabilities that will become evident as we see him play more and our returning guards have their strengths and might even improve on some things over the summer. We've just spent a year or two picking apart the returning players and we have seen very little of Carsen to this point.

Like I said, I year from now we'll probably have a thread like this where people will be talking about how they can't wait for 2017-Recruit-XYZ to get here because he can do all these things that Carsen can't. Unfortunately, that's how the cycle goes for most of the players on this board. They are never better than before they start playing games.
 
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I would agree with everything you said. I'm not trying to bag on him. PJ does what's asked of him and some of us just wish he were able to do more but he is limited athletically. I do think he's a really good on ball defender and I like the fight and moxey he shows. He's a much better shooter than LewJack but LJ was much faster, better ball handler and could finish.

You are also remembering the senior LewJack and comparing him to the sophomore PJ. There was a time when LewJack was an underclassman that it was absolutely frustrating how he could get to the rim but not finish. By the time he was a senior he was very good at getting there and finishing. LewJack was a much better player as a senior than he was as a sophomore. We know that PJ was light years better as a sophomore than a freshman. It stands to reason he might improve some more before all is said and done.
 
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You may be right, but I think that PJ has a ways to go before I view him being at LewJack's level, so I'm stopping short of declaring PJ/Mathias as better than LewJack/Smith, for now.

I do agree with you about Mathias. His anticipation and attention to detail is off the charts.
PJ is NOT at lewjacks level. I think the sum of all is better. :)
 
It was a hyperbole about how people view recruits/players on this board although I did see one guy predict that he leaves early for the NBA.

People here build players up before they get here then once they get here they spend time picking apart their game and highlighting the things they can't do rather than recognizing their value for the things they do bring to the table. I agree that Carsen looks to have a different skillset than our other guards and that it could prove to be helpful. That said, Carsen probably has his own liabilities that will become evident as we see him play more and our returning guards have their strengths and might even improve on some things over the summer. We've just spent a year or two picking apart the returning players and we have seen very little of Carsen to this point.

Like I said, I year from now we'll probably have a thread like this where people will be talking about how they can't wait for 2017-Recruit-XYZ to get here because he can do all these things that Carsen can't. Unfortunately, that's how the cycle goes for most of the players on this board. They are never better than before they start playing games.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Particularly in Carsen's case, it was easy to get caught up in the hype if you watched him play in Spain. Biggie was also hyped because of his ranking. I am not sure that Cline or the 2014 class were over-hyped by most, but I'm sure they were by some.
 
I hope that you are correct.

so do I. ;) I do expect in the final 15 seconds in a close game for Carsen to be in there to help fill that void...don't want him to get the ball until the final 10 seconds since he is a freshman...but I know he can get a shot off and he has a decent chance of making it. I worry about not sliding close enough on hand off or fundamental mistake in coming off a screen to get the ball. I only want him as teh primary guy with the ball in a situation the other team can't get the ball...too early
 
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so do I. ;) I do expect in the final 15 seconds in a close game for Carsen to be in there to help fill that void...don't want him to get the ball until the final 10 seconds since he is a freshman...but I know he can get a shot off and he has a decent chance of making it. I worry about not sliding close enough on hand off or fundamental mistake in coming off a screen to get the ball. I only want him as teh primary guy with the ball in a situation the other team can't get the ball...too early
He also maybe used as a decoy. I still like the option of getting the ball to Swanigan in the post.
 
He also maybe used as a decoy. I still like the option of getting the ball to Swanigan in the post.
Wouldn't you cover swanigan pretty well? I expect all the bigs to be defended well in closing seconds.
 
You are also remembering the senior LewJack and comparing him to the sophomore PJ. There was a time when LewJack was an underclassman that it was absolutely frustrating how he could get to the rim but not finish. By the time he was a senior he was very good at getting there and finishing. LewJack was a much better player as a senior than he was as a sophomore. We know that PJ was light years better as a sophomore than a freshman. It stands to reason he might improve some more before all is said and done.
Your point is excellent and so often forgotten. Players generally get better with age. I should be freakin awesome.
 
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You may be right, but I think that PJ has a ways to go before I view him being at LewJack's level, so I'm stopping short of declaring PJ/Mathias as better than LewJack/Smith, for now.

I do agree with you about Mathias. His anticipation and attention to detail is off the charts.

Seems to me that the longer Lewis Jackson has been out of school, the better player he has become.
 
Definitely, but if I can run a play to get him the ball a favorable match-up down low, I like my chances.
I think you run some sets in the final 2 minutes, but in the final seconds it is all about creating conditions and then reading. With 10 to 15 seconds there are only a couple of rubs and such away from the ball and then probably a 1 and 5 ball screen and a split second read. Before that lots of time. What I intended to suggest all these times was that the bigs will be defended and the perimeter will be contended. The defense would prefer a freshman make a play...and Carsen is capable. Now if he has a great fresh year...he will be defended with much more interest. Teams will defend pudues inside game more than the perimeter and in the final 10 seconds or so a player generally must make a play off the dribble and that is why some are starstruck on getting a great pg...because in close games they can do things that players that must receive the ball can't
No question biggie gets more attention this whole year than Carsen and biggie will receive with haas concerns for the D inside with a smaller athlete taking
vince. Purdue has a lot of offensive weapons
 
I think you run some sets in the final 2 minutes, but in the final seconds it is all about creating conditions and then reading. With 10 to 15 seconds there are only a couple of rubs and such away from the ball and then probably a 1 and 5 ball screen and a split second read. Before that lots of time. What I intended to suggest all these times was that the bigs will be defended and the perimeter will be contended. The defense would prefer a freshman make a play...and Carsen is capable. Now if he has a great fresh year...he will be defended with much more interest. Teams will defend pudues inside game more than the perimeter and in the final 10 seconds or so a player generally must make a play off the dribble and that is why some are starstruck on getting a great pg...because in close games they can do things that players that must receive the ball can't
No question biggie gets more attention this whole year than Carsen and biggie will receive with haas concerns for the D inside with a smaller athlete taking
vince. Purdue has a lot of offensive weapons
I don't disagree. A 1 and 5 ball screen is a perfect example. As much as I like Haas, I would surround Biggie with four shooters instead and make Biggie's man decide how to defend when he screens. I agree that it often won't end with Biggie getting the shot, but I'd always want to force the D to take it away first.

I do agree that a dynamic guard gives the offense an advantage, but I am not certain that Carsen will be completely ready for that roll as a freshman. As you said, Purdue has a lot of guys who can take that last shot.
 
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Post removed. I was commenting that I forgot about Octeus/Davis two years ago, but then I remembered that Davis played the 3 two years ago, so I stand by my statement that I think that PJ/Mathias will be Purdue's best starting backcourt since LewJack/Smith.
I have never been sold on Mathias as a starter. He's a decent player, but Purdue's savior....he's not.
 
I have never been sold on Mathias as a starter. He's a decent player, but Purdue's savior....he's not.
A lot of people would agree with you. I'm not trying to hype him as Purdue's savior either, but I appreciate his contribution to the team. I think that he'll have a solid junior season.
 
While the Purdue frontcourt is already receiving some much deserved recognition this off-season, the Purdue backcourt isn't getting a whole lot of respect. That said, I am very excited to see what the Purdue backcourt can do this season.

I'm a big fan of the way that Dakota Mathias played in the second half of last season and I think that he might be one of the most underrated players in the conference. I think that his defense is better than he gets credit for and on offense, he's a really good complimentary player. When Purdue needs a big shot, I trust Mathias more than any other player on the team. As much as I admired Ray Davis, his senior season was a struggle, perhaps because of injury. I think that the Purdue offense will flow much better with Mathias at the 2 than it did last season with Davis and the drop-off defensively will not be as great as many Purdue fans fear.

At point guard, I really think that PJ will prove to be solid. Like Mathias, he's a complimentary player, but like Mathias, he will bury the big shot when he is open. I think that he'll continue to take care of the ball and as he makes incremental improvements in his body, he'll prove to be a more reliable option in pressure situations, as well as an improved defender.

I think that PJ and Mathias will give Purdue its best starting backcourt since LewJack and Smith were seniors, but it is Carson Edwards who I look forward to seeing most. I think he'll be ready to contribute significantly this season, proving a great spark off of the bench. While Mathias and PJ are more complimentary players, Edwards is more of a playmaker who is capable of putting a lot of pressure on the D. I love his quick release and his ability to get to the rim.

Spike is a little hard to get a read on, but I think that he'll be a very valuable and steady option at point guard.

I think that Cline will spend a lot of time backing up the three, but I still think of him as a 2 and I think that he'll prove to be one of the better shooters in the country, as his all around game improves.

Overall, I think that Purdue guard play will be very respectable this season and I am excited to see it.

Our backcourt will be much the same as last year, a little better, but our front court defense will be alot worse . Don't get your hopes up, we still don't have a go to scorer, and our defense is taking a hit.
 
Well somebody things were better this year than last starting off Rank 10 which I disagree with the ranking of 10 I thought maybe twenty-three or twenty-four
 
Our backcourt will be much the same as last year, a little better, but our front court defense will be alot worse . Don't get your hopes up, we still don't have a go to scorer, and our defense is taking a hit.
Thanks for the reminder that AJ Hammons is a big loss, which is not something to be taken for granted. Maybe I'll start a thread about the front-court sometime to discuss whether Haas, Swanigan, Vince Edwards, Taylor, and Smotherman can step up to the challenge.
 
Our backcourt will be much the same as last year, a little better, but our front court defense will be alot worse . Don't get your hopes up, we still don't have a go to scorer, and our defense is taking a hit.

These thoughts echo my concerns. Offensively we might be as good or better than last year depending on how the returning players can pick up the slack left by Hammons/Davis. We have the talent to make up for them on that end of the floor. I don't see any way to avoid the fact that we won't be as good defensively and the potential for the drop off there is pretty big in my opinion.
 
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