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Purdue +7

So now I think we're getting somewhere. I think it's easy to lock in on what players don't do well and define talent in narrow terms. Dependability is a talent. Understanding defensive concepts is a talent. In this example, Thienemen was more valuable than Grant to the coaching staff because he had certain talents that coaches desire. I get that you guys want players to have 4.3 40 yard dash talent. But if a player is running a 4.3 in the wrong direction, that's a talent that can be detrimental to winning. What if Douglas' talent as a Mike linebacker is properly communicating to teammates? You say that Douglas maximizes his talent as if it is meaningless. But playing with great effort is a talent that not everybody has. What if having a player with Douglas' talent on the field raises the effort level of the entire defense?

Physicality is a talent. Intelligence is a talent. From the coaching interviews it would appear that Douglas is the most talented linebacker in these areas. But that still doesn't explain the play he made on Saturday.
Thienemen was in the program longer and had much more experience play calling than Grant. I'm not saying intelligence doesn't matter, because it does. But top teams don't always play the most intellectual player. They generally play the most physically gifted athletes. And that's what Grant was vs Thienemen. And why Grant started taking away playing time from Thienemen as he learned more.

Douglas may very well be in the game because Brothers isn't ready. Or, he may just be better overall than Brothers. I don't have an opinion on that yet because I haven't really seen either play much. But the coaching staff has and they know better than me. But it was pretty clear last year why Thienemen started at the beginning of the season over Grant. Even the coaches stated that. And why Grant eventually gained playing time. If you watched any games last year, that was pretty evident.
 
looking at the Purdue/Oregon St stats, I see Douglas was 2nd in team tackles and had 3 solo tackles, guess I am not understanding what the guy is doing that is so bad.
 
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Thienemen was in the program longer and had much more experience play calling than Grant. I'm not saying intelligence doesn't matter, because it does. But top teams don't always play the most intellectual player. They generally play the most physically gifted athletes. And that's what Grant was vs Thienemen. And why Grant started taking away playing time from Thienemen as he learned more.

Douglas may very well be in the game because Brothers isn't ready. Or, he may just be better overall than Brothers. I don't have an opinion on that yet because I haven't really seen either play much. But the coaching staff has and they know better than me. But it was pretty clear last year why Thienemen started at the beginning of the season over Grant. Even the coaches stated that. And why Grant eventually gained playing time. If you watched any games last year, that was pretty evident.

that’s what the game is …

“hey our guy who understands the game is bigger and/or faster than your guy.”

some people “we better get that athletic younger player ready to play like the less athletic older player so our opponent doesn’t beat us with jimmys and joes.”

other people “hey.. they’re all nice guys.”
 
By the way.. all coaches think this way..

joe tiller “I can never be as big as you, so what I give up in size I’ll make up for twice in speed.”

a lot of casual fans don’t know this but the spread is actually a run offense. If you can get your opponent to get frustrated by a quick hitting pass game, and they go dime, now you’re winning blocking matchups in the run game
 
looking at the Purdue/Oregon St stats, I see Douglas was 2nd in team tackles and had 3 solo tackles, guess I am not understanding what the guy is doing that is so bad.
I know nothing about Douglas. He may be very good. I was just making a point about Grant not being ready to play immediately last year, which is why Thienemen started.
 
I’m speaking of god given talent …

so that if you can get brothers to do all the things that one can control at the same level as Douglas .. he will be better cause he runs faster …

I don’t have an issue with Douglas being out there if coaches think he is more dependable.

however, your world meets a cold reality when you begin talking about opposing coaches. I would love to see you sitting in their meetings when they yell “stop the tape! THAT guy.”

what you want is brothers able to be comfortable at WLB so that Alexander can be in the middle and have the range not to get beat by a pass over the middle to the TE on 2nd and 7.

Or you can hope for the Ohio state scenario where they absolutely exploited our corner for what should have been 2-3 big plays but Haskins missed the throws.

would be nice if coan floats a couple and Allen hawks it for a big play 😁
I might agree with you if I thought Alexander was a true Mike. I haven't seen him display that level of physicality over the course of his career though. And it definitely doesn't appear as if that will be a strength for Brothers until he fills out a little. I'm also not saying I want Douglas on the field simply because he might be a good guy. Would Brothers have made the play Douglas made early in the second half on Saturday? I'm not saying he wouldn't have because we're all sure he's fast enough. But none of us know yet if Brothers would have displayed the effort to make it.

I shy away from raging on our own players, but someone like Cornel Jones used to frustrate the heck out of me. I thought he was a great athlete, but I felt he routinely jogged around on the field with less than his best effort. If a player gives more effort, in a lot of ways that player is better. When someone sends a pulling guard into the middle of our defense, I would rather have Douglas attacking it than I would Alexander or Brothers. It's not 7 on 7. You still have to play with physicality on defense.

But that still doesn't explain the play on Saturday!
 
I might agree with you if I thought Alexander was a true Mike. I haven't seen him display that level of physicality over the course of his career though. And it definitely doesn't appear as if that will be a strength for Brothers until he fills out a little. I'm also not saying I want Douglas on the field simply because he might be a good guy. Would Brothers have made the play Douglas made early in the second half on Saturday? I'm not saying he wouldn't have because we're all sure he's fast enough. But none of us know yet if Brothers would have displayed the effort to make it.

I shy away from raging on our own players, but someone like Cornel Jones used to frustrate the heck out of me. I thought he was a great athlete, but I felt he routinely jogged around on the field with less than his best effort. If a player gives more effort, in a lot of ways that player is better. When someone sends a pulling guard into the middle of our defense, I would rather have Douglas attacking it than I would Alexander or Brothers. It's not 7 on 7. You still have to play with physicality on defense.

But that still doesn't explain the play on Saturday!
I think that.. the coaches would be wise to try to get him to work out there against teams that can test the middle with the pass .. against Wisconsin yeah it’s probably a fools errand …

Douglas is really physical and plays hard .. there’s no doubting that. It’s just becoming more of a passing game ..
 
I might agree with you if I thought Alexander was a true Mike. I haven't seen him display that level of physicality over the course of his career though. And it definitely doesn't appear as if that will be a strength for Brothers until he fills out a little. I'm also not saying I want Douglas on the field simply because he might be a good guy. Would Brothers have made the play Douglas made early in the second half on Saturday? I'm not saying he wouldn't have because we're all sure he's fast enough. But none of us know yet if Brothers would have displayed the effort to make it.

I shy away from raging on our own players, but someone like Cornel Jones used to frustrate the heck out of me. I thought he was a great athlete, but I felt he routinely jogged around on the field with less than his best effort. If a player gives more effort, in a lot of ways that player is better. When someone sends a pulling guard into the middle of our defense, I would rather have Douglas attacking it than I would Alexander or Brothers. It's not 7 on 7. You still have to play with physicality on defense.

But that still doesn't explain the play on Saturday!
Also there’s this.. I kind of relish a team thinking that the way to beat Purdue is running the football. It’s a non starter toward karlaftis. If anything gets by him it will take enough attention that it will easily be cleaned up. The other three DL are stout as well. Against a team attempting to play that way you go with Lewis next to Johnson and then Mitchell. If a run is coming at Alexander against that type of team, that’s when you will really see the value of Marvin grant.

I can’t wait to see Grant If that’s the attacking line if thought an opposing OC takes
 
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Yes - he was one of Colletto’s Mikes… maybe the first one.
If I was standing there drinking next to you at a cold weather tailgate after Douglas stuffed a Wisconsin back for a big stop .. I’d probably take a swig and say “a real katzenmoyer that Douglas…”
 
Also there’s this.. I kind of relish a team thinking that the way to beat Purdue is running the football. It’s a non starter toward karlaftis. If anything gets by him it will take enough attention that it will easily be cleaned up. The other three DL are stout as well. Against a team attempting to play that way you go with Lewis next to Johnson and then Mitchell. If a run is coming at Alexander against that type of team, that’s when you will really see the value of Marvin grant.

I can’t wait to see Grant If that’s the attacking line if thought an opposing OC takes
Small sample, but I really like our D line and its starting to look like a true strength of the team. Btw, really like the Washington move over there. He looks like he belongs there. Again small sample size.
 
It was directed at another person, wondering why they think Douglas is so bad at linebacker
Lol everyone is a pop Warner fan. He’s not particularly bad.. we are playing teams like ND. You have to be good in space to not get burned by their backs and tight ends.

put it like this.. Horvath will come back and make big plays receiving the football and I won’t look at the opposing linebacker and say “how terrible he is.”

If you act like everyone is really good, it kind of denigrates the achievements of players who are.. really good.. doesn’t it?

here, I’ll play. James dunnigan was as good as Cory trice. If you don’t think so, you’re a meanie.
 
Small sample, but I really like our D line and its starting to look like a true strength of the team. Btw, really like the Washington move over there. He looks like he belongs there. Again small sample size.
I like the move in that it shows, at a minimum, that the staff is trying to get the most of its available roster on every play, in every situation. DJ won't be an every down defensive player, but sub him in for Deen on the goal line or 3rd & 1? Sure. He obviously wasn't in the plans at OL, so why not squeeze 10 or 15 snaps out of him where he can contribute something.

Same thing with Marks. Prior staff had no use for him. Current staff can put him on the field on 3rd & 10 for LJ and tell him to go get the QB.
 
I like the move in that it shows, at a minimum, that the staff is trying to get the most of its available roster on every play, in every situation. DJ won't be an every down defensive player, but sub him in for Deen on the goal line or 3rd & 1? Sure. He obviously wasn't in the plans at OL, so why not squeeze 10 or 15 snaps out of him where he can contribute something.

Same thing with Marks. Prior staff had no use for him. Current staff can put him on the field on 3rd & 10 for LJ and tell him to go get the QB.
I actually really like the move too. Washington and Lewis look great and Johnson and Deen have come along very nicely as well

I can’t wait for Martinez to have karlaftis coming right at him and if he gets away he looks up and Marvin grant is right there
 
Lol everyone is a pop Warner fan. He’s not particularly bad.. we are playing teams like ND. You have to be good in space to not get burned by their backs and tight ends.

put it like this.. Horvath will come back and make big plays receiving the football and I won’t look at the opposing linebacker and say “how terrible he is.”

If you act like everyone is really good, it kind of denigrates the achievements of players who are.. really good.. doesn’t it?

here, I’ll play. James dunnigan was as good as Cory trice. If you don’t think so, you’re a meanie.
I guess I still don't know why you think Douglas is bad at linebacker, was wondering if it was something I wasn't seeing, after your answer I am sorry I said anything
 
I guess I still don't know why you think Douglas is bad at linebacker, was wondering if it was something I wasn't seeing, after your answer I am sorry I said anything
He’s not bad! There’s like this moral thing going on. It’s weird. I feel like I’m in a room with Kirk hinrich fans from early in his bulls career

I don’t think he’s got good range in coverage. We play competition where that matters. Notre dame’s tight ends and backs are supposedly every bit as good as Horvath and Durham as receiving threats.

Bad would be a guy who misses tackles, plays sloppy, gets penalties, is out of position, isn’t physical. Douglas is not any of those things.

but when you say “hey he doesn’t have a great coverage radius and we have other linebackers who cover more ground,” it’s very frustrating when the response you get is “oh, oh.. so you’re saying he’s bad.”

he doesn’t suck. But some of our competition is way beyond “doesn’t suck.”
 
He’s not bad! There’s like this moral thing going on. It’s weird. I feel like I’m in a room with Kirk hinrich fans from early in his bulls career

I don’t think he’s got good range in coverage. We play competition where that matters. Notre dame’s tight ends and backs are supposedly every bit as good as Horvath and Durham as receiving threats.

Bad would be a guy who misses tackles, plays sloppy, gets penalties, is out of position, isn’t physical. Douglas is not any of those things.

but when you say “hey he doesn’t have a great coverage radius and we have other linebackers who cover more ground,” it’s very frustrating when the response you get is “oh, oh.. so you’re saying he’s bad.”

he doesn’t suck. But some of our competition is way beyond “doesn’t suck.”
Ok got ya
 
I really don’t think he’s bad. I thought linebacking play ten some years ago got pretty bad .. league tougher than ever.

im very proud to watch this team. I’ve already had two fans of other big ten schools say how smart and fundamental Purdue is playing
So you weren't in the Sean Robinson/Garrett Hudson/Nick Holt fan clubs?
 
So you weren't in the Sean Robinson/Garrett Hudson/Nick Holt fan clubs?
Go look at the 2010 roster and tell me who you’d take on this team at LB. we had some LEAN days. A lot of LB groups who couldn’t cover the pass. I don’t include robinson in that though. I think he was decent

I think this group will have a chance to be like really really good next year.
 
Go look at the 2010 roster and tell me who you’d take on this team at LB. we had some LEAN days. A lot of LB groups who couldn’t cover the pass. I don’t include robinson in that though. I think he was decent

I think this group will have a chance to be like really really good next year.
Dwayne Beckford was kind of a badass. I’d take him for sure.
 
This game is a hard game to read. I think I'd take Notre Dame and give the points but I can't think of another season where its hard to get a sense of how good either team is after two games.

Purdue was projected to be a 5 win team. They were supposed to win the first two games and they did. They beat a team by 9 at home in a game with a spread of around 7. Then they clocked a team which is supposed to be the worst FBS program. Purdue has basically played a little better than expected over the first two games but when you see your team trounce anybody like Purdue did its hard not to be hopeful.

Notre Dame was ranked in the top 10 coming into the season but barely beat (a mediocre?) Florida State team on the road and then survived against one of the better teams from the MAC, Their ranking has fallen and the fact that they are only a 7 point home favorite against Purdue says that they have lost a lot of believers.

This game will tell us a lot about both teams. If Purdue could go in and win or hang in there with ND on the road we could be in store for a pretty good season. If ND comes out and beats us by more than a couple touchdowns then my expectations will fall back in line with the 5 or 6 wins I thought we'd get at the beginning of the year. Conversely, if ND beats Purdue by 2 or 3 TDs they might slide back into the top 10, but if they lose or eke out a close win it will confirm to the doubters that ND is going to have a rough year by their standards.
 
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Line has been wavering between 7.5 and 8. Currently 7.5. ML Purdue +234. It had been as low as +195 during the week.

1st half +4.5

Some fun props
Coan passing yards O/U 275.5
Plummer passing yards O/U 284.5
K. Williams rushing O/U 89.5
David Bell receiving 105.5
M. Mayer receiving 72.5
 
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