I'm not that upset with the loss. But that was just horrific clock management by Brohm. Sorry, but he lost the game tonight...
Piss Poor Clock Management
- Thread starter purduepat1969
- Start date
I agree with the poor clock management. But I don’t think he was the one on the field choosing not to tackle, carrying the ball in the wrong hand and dropping passes, penalties penalties penalties… not the best clock management by a long shot. But this was an all-around “1st game“
It’s all an elaborate plan to ambush Iowa on November 5th and sneak into a lower tier bowl game
Our DBs grab = penalty.
Their DBs grab = not a penalty.
I think bad calls hurt us more than they hurt penn state. I think we could’ve overcome them. Overall I think we played a good game and we can have a heck of a year
14 plays in last two possessions (before the final I believe), and, a single run...that is what happens when you don't have a quality RB, and, don't have a quality OL either.
I am more disappointed than upset, as, Purdue was its own worst enemy all the way around, be it plays, lack thereof, penalties or some really questionable play calls.
They could not generate any pressure at all (my how different things are when you don't have a genuine stud)...they still can't run the football when it matters...and, defense just makes too many mistakes/misses too many tackles.
I am not even sold that that was some sort of stellar PSU team either...but, they were the better team certainly...and unfortunately.
Purdue has some things to work with at least, and, clearly has progressed as a program...but, they still have things to fix, and, unfortunately, it is a lot of the same things.
Awesome weather...awesome atmosphere...missed (golden) opportunity unfortunately.
3 Purdue penalties came on 3rd down plays that PSU failed to convert, but, the drive was extended and I believe that they scored a TD on all 3...a critical penalty twice for Purdue on converted first downs that came back and resulted in Purdue punts.
There was a phantom PI on Purdue, and, several missed on PSU.
Don't forget about the wasted timeout...coming out of a PSU timeout...completely ridiculous.
I know that they had a delay of game late also...not sure that it was after a timeout thought.
Purdue could not manage a first down twice late...just one, and they win the game likely...PSU went 80-yards to win the game in a minute.
Purdue gave up 2 sacks...both on the final drive, and, the final one with only a 3-man rush and Purdue keeping a RB in even...6 guys failed to block 3 (and, it was not the only time...just the worst time).
Disagree. The mountain of missed tackles, penalties and sputtering in the 4th lost us the game. All of those things I mentioned led directly to points where "clock management" is a perception.
Carrying the ball in the wrong hand is just inexcusable at this level. Unfortunately we see it year after year. I think that Sheffield fumble might have been the single play to cost Purdue the win. That cost us at least 3 points minimum and Penn State scored 7 points just as the half ended.
2 things about that play.
1: Why are you running a jet sweep to the short side of the field when you only needed 1-2 yards. PSU's DBs arent' going to get beat to the corner.
2: Assuming Sheffield is right handed, he probably carries the ball in his right arm 95% of the time, it's just natural. But, running him to the left puts the ball right where the defender has a clear shot at it, which the PSU defender took advantage of.
Still, I know fumbles happen, but that one was avoidable.
It was not a great call seemingly, and, then just incredibly bad execution from there unfortunately.
There is no excuse as you said for the ball being in the wrong hand, and, you have to secure/protect it on top of it regardless...but, what was far, far more inexcusable is the missed tackle AND allowing a PSU TD as a result with :02 on the clock...tackle him, they may not even score...just tackle him along the way somewhere of his subsequent 50-yard jaunt and they get a FG...at best. Simply cannot give up 7 there, never mind how they did.
The defense, while solid against the run (which was admittedly a nice surprise) sucked more or less against the pass...like say, absolutely no pressure...poor coverage...and, tackling was just brutal...I have not been a fan of the safety position for some time, and, less so after last night.
Purdue collectively is better for certain from a talent standpoint, but, until they get to a point where they actually can land some genuine difference-makers with any consistency, they will continue to lose games like last night with regularity.
Know what Purdue missed more than anything last night? A guy like David Bell and a guy like George Karlaftis...they don't have them...and, Purdue is simply not good enough to win games against quality teams without them, and, again, I am not even sure that PSU is a really quality team of any sort.
That Charlie Jones could not even get on the field at Iowa and came to Purdue and not only is the best WR is concerning, but, that he is by such a wide margin is REALLY concerning. Props to him certainly, but, yikes...
He had a 7 yard gain for the first down. That was the objective and he made it easily so running to the short side of the field was fine.
You learn in Junior High Football to carry the ball in the outside arm no matter which one is your dominate arm and you saw why on that play.
Literally, it was a Hope-esque play call...there are a few head scratches pretty much every game (i.e., the speed option from the 7 later on...when you know that there is ZERO chance that Aidan is running, and, you have no speed (with either guy) running the play).
You nailed it...it was a poor call, with even more poor execution, but, the kid was put in a position to fail more than succeed on it.
Fair point that it "worked" per se with respect to getting a first down, which, indeed is the objective there, but, I just hate that Purdue STILL can't hand the ball off to a RB and get a first down in short yardage...they don't recruit the position well AT ALL, and, the OL STILL can't win the LOS.
Yes, I agree with the not being able to get a first down going strait ahead like other teams. Last night, we may have been able to as I thought we were getting a decent push from the OL.
It was misleading...there were not a lot of runs between the tackles, and, nothing that worked in true short yardage.
PSU did not seem to have a dominant presence up front as they so often have, and, for a school known as Linebacker U, there was not much to write home about there either...more so given the long, long lineage at that position.
Their strength is definitely in the secondary...especially if allowed to be physical as they were last night.
Purdue is at best, average in the running game...both from an OL standpoint, and, certainly RB...and, I am not even sure that they are average until I see them actually convert in some short yardage situations. Certainly seem to be good in general with respect to pass protection, but, even that broke down at the worst time last night, and, just a horrible, horrible penalty by Hartwig that was a killer with a chop block that took away a great play.
Nothing from last night changed my impression of the run game. 70 rush yards is below our average from last year, which was dead last in the Big Ten by a wide margin.
Brohm absolutely needed a better 4 minute offense plan last night. Maybe you don't want to pack it in and just run it, but how about some swing passes or screens. And where was Tracy? Wasn't that going to be his big role, versatility, catching passes out of the back field? Were were the old jet sweeps? Overall they just seemed totally unprepared for the position they found themselves in, a typically desirable position with the lead and the ball late in the game.
That was one of my big take-aways, too. Purdue still does not have a big boy running game. I'm not saying Brohm should have circled the wagons and gone completely to the run down the stretch. But, Purdue has to be able to make some yards on the ground in that situation.
Look, the kids are going to make mistakes. I can live with that for the most part. And a lot of those penalties were pretty borderline based on what I saw Penn St get away with. We had one turnover last night and turned a Penn State turnover into a TD. That's a pretty good mistake free night.
Clock management wasn't a perception last night. Brohm's been talking about having a running game all off season for just that scenario we saw at the end of the game. So why in the world do you not try to run the ball, at all, with about 6 minutes left on the clock? And then not run the ball with 4 minutes left? Instead, we throw high risk pass after high risk pass. It made absolutely ZERO sense.
We're paying this guy over $5MM annually to coach a kid's game. You don't expect the kids not to make mistakes. That's gonna happen. But for the kind of mind boggling decision making at the end of the game by the head coach, you have to shake your head.
That speed option was definitely a WTF call. Brohm out-thought himself on that one. AOC has no interest in running that play.
Great assessment on the last point...they indeed look to be totally unprepared unfortunately for being precisely in the position that they would have wanted to be seemingly.
And, same with respect to the first point...dead last in rushing a year ago, and, no signs at all of that changing...in part, because it is the same cast of characters in general, and, Purdue just lacks a legit RB...and, has really since Brohm arrived...they have found ways to overcome that, but, seriously...at some point...recognize (and acknowledge) that it matters and find a legit guy back there...I admire the effort with which Doerue plays, but, he is the only guy back there that is even ok, and, he simply is not a guy that would start anywhere else in the conference, and, not even play for the best teams...that he is THE guy is not just an issue, but, a big issue.
I don't want to bash a kid, and, especially after his first game, but, Tracy could not have been more disappointing...to the point that it was an insult that he donned David Bell's jersey. He had a huge impact...just not in the way that anyone (and likely he the most) would have hoped or wanted.
If you watch the old program about the Rose Bowl team, Chaney says that exact thing: How do you burn the clock when you essentially are always running a 2 minute offense (without a reliable running game).
But again, you always hear about teams using the short passing plays as basically running plays. But, throwing incompletions and stopping the clock because you're throwing at an NFL corner is making Diaz look like a genius.
I've seen Brohm try to run that play a few times. It absolutely NEVER works with O'Connell running the ball. He's not fooling anyone. So why try to run that on the 7 yard line?
We'll just agree to disagree as the mistakes that were made by the players are basic football things they should of learned in high school. In the first half alone there were two drives that PSU was stopped and bonehead penalties kept their drive alive and they scored on each of them.
Take those away and the rest of the game changes dramatically as does the play calling.
And one other funny thing, I remember this forum getting all up in arms last season because we ran instead of threw, now it's the reverse. And let's also be clear, the running game last night was not all that great either.
But as I said, we'll just agree to disagree. It was the first game and there is a lot of football left to be played.
It makes no sense...Purdue is NEVER going to beat a defense to the edge (with that personnel), and, to your point, O'Connell is indeed NEVER going to run...nor do I want him to for that matter (and neither should Purdue).
There are plays that are more or less wasted to set something up maybe...I can get that...I don't love it, but, I get it...to a point at least...but, there were 3 (including that one) that come to mind quickly from last night that never did indeed set anything up subsequently.
Not every play will succeed obviously for any number of potential reasons, but, THAT play...it is never going to work...not with that personnel...get rid of it.
Look.. I'm a big fan of Brohm and what he means to this program, bringing it out of the depths of the cesspool and to the point where we are even leading a game like that late in the 4th quarter. I want him here for a long time.
However...
This is exactly why I am not worried about him sniffing an NFL job. Not now, maybe not ever. These are the sort of tactical decisions you need from an NFL head coach to win those close games and turn a 8-9 record to 10-7. And he frankly hasn't really shown much progress in game management in 6 years.
Edit: I have to wonder if playcalling and game management are just too much for one person's shoulders in that situation. There is a reason a lot of head coaches, especially at the next level, are not calling plays.
However...
This is exactly why I am not worried about him sniffing an NFL job. Not now, maybe not ever. These are the sort of tactical decisions you need from an NFL head coach to win those close games and turn a 8-9 record to 10-7. And he frankly hasn't really shown much progress in game management in 6 years.
Edit: I have to wonder if playcalling and game management are just too much for one person's shoulders in that situation. There is a reason a lot of head coaches, especially at the next level, are not calling plays.
Check the 5m mark when PSU was trying to get something going. Our #1 came across to catch pass and your DB literally grabbed by shoulder and pulled him. He was livid. Pass incomplete, no flag and we punted. There were chippy hands and tight coverage..but egregious holds? I think that was a wash. We got some, you got some. It did not change outcome. It was coaching and penalties IMHO. Your coach decided to throw rather than run clock down. He challenged our best DBs and lost that battle. We had one great 2m drive but otherwise on our heels. You had it. You have a very good offense. I expect 9 wins from PU. We have good secondary, better than most you will see from here out.
Best of luck Boilers.
The run game wasn't as horrible as putting your team late in the game with 2nd and 3rd long situations. Penn State stayed true to the run game and it benefited as they came out with the W.
Brohm has to stay with run games to win tight games. He flat out abandoned it late in this game and I believe that's what cost us the victory.
Purdue actually showed somewhat of a run game last night. I think we averaged 4+ ypc (not including sacks). That's good enough to stick with late when trying to burn clock. And, even if they stack the box to stop the run, you can still run high % short passes (screens, bubbles, middles, etc) that are easy to complete, can pick up 3,4, 5 yards and keep the clock moving. They're basically running plays for a passing team.
Things always look different once the emotion settles. Now almost a day later, after feeling like Purdue blew this game, I've got a bit more balanced perspective.
For the majority of the game, Penn State was in the driver's seat. They were the favorite. They built the 11 point lead. And then... then they did the inexcusable, a pick-6 overthrow to the middle of the field to surrender the lead in the 4th quarter. If that had stood, it would have been considered a tremendous collapse on their part.
Purdue wasn't the only one who made mistakes or mismanaged the game situation. Penn State simply made one less mistake, which is what the better team typically does.
For the majority of the game, Penn State was in the driver's seat. They were the favorite. They built the 11 point lead. And then... then they did the inexcusable, a pick-6 overthrow to the middle of the field to surrender the lead in the 4th quarter. If that had stood, it would have been considered a tremendous collapse on their part.
Purdue wasn't the only one who made mistakes or mismanaged the game situation. Penn State simply made one less mistake, which is what the better team typically does.
Coaching clock management errors is a common Penn State theme as well. This game we were fortunate. Your guys played really well last night- both teams made mistakes, but that happens in all games. In this case, the timing of the mistakes happened to help Penn State. I do think Purdue can go on to a very successful season. I will be rooting for you to win the BT West.
when Andy Reid was in Philly this was the fans biggest gripe, bad clock management. Lots of passing not enough runs, taking strange TO's and taking some to the lockeroom.
Agree. Our running game isn’t great but was better than I expected last night. Been nice to see more runs late in game. However we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if we didn’t lay an egg late in first half
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