Peggy Noonan to Republicans

[gr8indoorsman]

I hesitate to post anything here as I know what this will degrade into, but as a (former?) Republican, this opinion piece by Peggy Noonan of the WSJ pretty much exactly outlines what I hope happens with the party. Unfortunately, I believe the cult is running the show - it is well represented on this message board, hence why I do not participate here any longer. In my opinion, when "you guys" who think you represent what the Republican party needs figure this stuff out, you'll actually win: entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security aren't bad things, and many voters rely on them... they're not going away; continuing to place immigrants as "others" alienates a huge portion of the voting population; you need the center, you cannot win long-term behind Donald Trump and especially as he continues to focus on the past to save his own ego. You must move forward from that, and even welcome open criticism and exposure of the truth about the election: there was no widespread fraud, there was nothing Mike Pence or anyone else could legally do, the will of the people was heard just as it was when Trump was elected in 2016.

Turn your backs on the cult. Move forward. Be the party that stands against the extreme on both sides. Politics are a messy game; let the politicians play it as they have for 250 years. Mitch McConnell isn't the enemy because he disagrees with Donald Trump. Mike Pence is not the enemy because he denounced Donald Trump and said he is wrong. Liz Cheney is not the enemy because she is seeking the truth behind what happened on January 6th and what role Trump and his administration may have played in it.

Donald Trump has made himself an enemy of the Constitution because it suits his egotistical needs. If you truly believe in supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States, then you too must turn your back on Donald Trump.

Pointing out Joe Biden's failings isn't going to be enough so long as what I and most of the rest of the center believes is that what Republicans want is to return to Donald Trump. You won't win standing by Trump in 2024 saying, "At least I'm not Biden." You don't have the numbers. You have to find someone better, someone who actually has a vision for the future, not someone who continues living in the past.

Republicans, Stand Against Excess (may be paywalled)

 

[Riveting]

How is it that Trump has made himself an enemy of the Constitution (whatever that is supposed to mean)?

Easy to say something like that, but can you explain what you mean?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

How is it that Trump has made himself an enemy of the Constitution (whatever that is supposed to mean)?

Easy to say something like that, but can you explain what you mean?

By declaring people have powers they do not and continuing to attempt to undermine the democratic process, whether "just" rhetorically or not. I doubt his intent is to cause people to question the integrity of our democratic process for any other reason than to soothe his own ego. In the end, the effect is the same, and it's harming Republicans by eroding voter confidence in a mostly one-sided fashion. In short, Trump's continued focus alleging 2020 election "fraud" will likely do nothing but encourage Republican voters to stay home, which is the opposite of what Republicans should want.

 

[TheGunner]

Republicans and independents need to look at 2022 and realize that they need to seize the opportunity or suffer the fate of the far left communists that control the Democrat party. Free college, free healthcare, government mandates…35% of America wants these things and the educators are continuing to brainwash our kids to believe in their far left policies.

Republicans need to nominate a candidate that can govern from the middle…fight for the rights of all Americans, build an economy for all Americans and get all Americans back to work. Trump had a great economic plan and someone needs to be able to follow his economic plan and not alienate independents and moderate Democrats

(yes, we need moderate Democrats, because every year there is another brainwashed class of college and HS students getting the right to vote. In a decade, todays moderate Democrats will look like Republicans compared to the even farther left in 10 yrs)

 

[Riveting]

By declaring people have powers they do not and continuing to attempt to undermine the democratic process, whether "just" rhetorically or not. I doubt his intent is to cause people to question the integrity of our democratic process for any other reason than to soothe his own ego. In the end, the effect is the same, and it's harming Republicans by eroding voter confidence in a mostly one-sided fashion. In short, Trump's continued focus alleging 2020 election "fraud" will likely do nothing but encourage Republican voters to stay home, which is the opposite of what Republicans should want.

I think it far more likely that the vast and unending incompetence of the Brandon admin will work to strongly encourage repub and independent voters not to stay home, especially in the mid-terms.

Then, when HC runs in 2024, her lying claims of Russian collusion and all the rest of it will match if not exceed Trump's claims of fraud. That is, if she is not indicted by Durham in the meantime.

 

[Riveting]

Republicans and independents need to look at 2022 and realize that they need to seize the opportunity or suffer the fate of the far left communists that control the Democrat party. Free college, free healthcare, government mandates…35% of America wants these things and the educators are continuing to brainwash our kids to believe in their far left policies.

Republicans need to nominate a candidate that can govern from the middle…fight for the rights of all Americans, build an economy for all Americans and get all Americans back to work. Trump had a great economic plan and someone needs to be able to follow his economic plan and not alienate independents and moderate Democrats

(yes, we need moderate Democrats, because every year there is another brainwashed class of college and HS students getting the right to vote. In a decade, todays moderate Democrats will look like Republicans compared to the even farther left in 10 yrs)

But every year isn't there also a large group of people who, through life and work experience and increasing wisdom, become skeptical of big gov for many reasons including incompetent dem rule in big cities - and turn away from the dems?

(I am hoping bni will eventually grow in wisdom and do just that. No such hope for puf and some the other knee-jerks, however.)

 

[ecouch]

tl;dr

Don't look at the polls.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Then, when HC runs in 2024, her lying claims of Russian collusion and all the rest of it will match if not exceed Trump's claims of fraud. That is, if she is not indicted by Durham in the meantime.

I have a hard time believing the Democrats will be so stupid as to bring Hillary back, but I suppose anything is possible.

 

[guidelinesa2]

I hesitate to post anything here as I know what this will degrade into, but as a (former?) Republican, this opinion piece by Peggy Noonan of the WSJ pretty much exactly outlines what I hope happens with the party. Unfortunately, I believe the cult is running the show - it is well represented on this message board, hence why I do not participate here any longer. In my opinion, when "you guys" who think you represent what the Republican party needs figure this stuff out, you'll actually win: entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security aren't bad things, and many voters rely on them... they're not going away; continuing to place immigrants as "others" alienates a huge portion of the voting population; you need the center, you cannot win long-term behind Donald Trump and especially as he continues to focus on the past to save his own ego. You must move forward from that, and even welcome open criticism and exposure of the truth about the election: there was no widespread fraud, there was nothing Mike Pence or anyone else could legally do, the will of the people was heard just as it was when Trump was elected in 2016.

Turn your backs on the cult. Move forward. Be the party that stands against the extreme on both sides. Politics are a messy game; let the politicians play it as they have for 250 years. Mitch McConnell isn't the enemy because he disagrees with Donald Trump. Mike Pence is not the enemy because he denounced Donald Trump and said he is wrong. Liz Cheney is not the enemy because she is seeking the truth behind what happened on January 6th and what role Trump and his administration may have played in it.

Donald Trump has made himself an enemy of the Constitution because it suits his egotistical needs. If you truly believe in supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States, then you too must turn your back on Donald Trump.

Pointing out Joe Biden's failings isn't going to be enough so long as what I and most of the rest of the center believes is that what Republicans want is to return to Donald Trump. You won't win standing by Trump in 2024 saying, "At least I'm not Biden." You don't have the numbers. You have to find someone better, someone who actually has a vision for the future, not someone who continues living in the past.

Republicans, Stand Against Excess (may be paywalled)

This person believed that the Virus came from the seafood market not the Wuhan lab, despite being shown all the evidence that was available in Spring 2020. He also called China moderate and non expansionary.

Never forget that he is totally without common sense and critical thinking ability. Nothing he says on here is going to be in the neighborhood of insightful analysis.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I have a hard time believing the Democrats will be so stupid as to bring Hillary back, but I suppose anything is possible.

If the Rs pick Trump to run.....isnt that just as stupid?

The Ds already showed their stupidity by picking Biden. Plus the Ds thought defund the police, and BLM... for a time....was their slogans of choice. Not too wise there.

Thus...BOTH parties arent exactly known for bright, smart moves.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

If the Rs pick Trump to run.....isnt that just as stupid?

The Ds already showed their stupidity by picking Biden. Plus the Ds thought defund the police, and BLM... for a time....was their slogans of choice. Not too wise there.

Thus...BOTH parties arent exactly known for bright, smart moves.

Of course they would be. Biden was a candidate that wasn’t going to offend anyone and that’s all the D’s needed in 2020. Depending on who the Rs put up, that may not work again. Clinton would be disastrous. I can’t see them doing that.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I hesitate to post anything here as I know what this will degrade into, but as a (former?) Republican, this opinion piece by Peggy Noonan of the WSJ pretty much exactly outlines what I hope happens with the party. Unfortunately, I believe the cult is running the show - it is well represented on this message board, hence why I do not participate here any longer. In my opinion, when "you guys" who think you represent what the Republican party needs figure this stuff out, you'll actually win: entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security aren't bad things, and many voters rely on them... they're not going away; continuing to place immigrants as "others" alienates a huge portion of the voting population; you need the center, you cannot win long-term behind Donald Trump and especially as he continues to focus on the past to save his own ego. You must move forward from that, and even welcome open criticism and exposure of the truth about the election: there was no widespread fraud, there was nothing Mike Pence or anyone else could legally do, the will of the people was heard just as it was when Trump was elected in 2016.

Turn your backs on the cult. Move forward. Be the party that stands against the extreme on both sides. Politics are a messy game; let the politicians play it as they have for 250 years. Mitch McConnell isn't the enemy because he disagrees with Donald Trump. Mike Pence is not the enemy because he denounced Donald Trump and said he is wrong. Liz Cheney is not the enemy because she is seeking the truth behind what happened on January 6th and what role Trump and his administration may have played in it.

Donald Trump has made himself an enemy of the Constitution because it suits his egotistical needs. If you truly believe in supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States, then you too must turn your back on Donald Trump.

Pointing out Joe Biden's failings isn't going to be enough so long as what I and most of the rest of the center believes is that what Republicans want is to return to Donald Trump. You won't win standing by Trump in 2024 saying, "At least I'm not Biden." You don't have the numbers. You have to find someone better, someone who actually has a vision for the future, not someone who continues living in the past.

Republicans, Stand Against Excess (may be paywalled)

If the Rs run somebody who is not Trump (without his baggage), but somebody who runs on his policies and does it in a “kinder”, more stable way, that candidate will win in 2024. I think Trump is too damaged, too tarnished to win in 2024. Tired of the continual drama.

Hitllary has definitely been signaling she wants to run again. She’s damaged as much as Trump and the truth is she’s about the only R candidate who Trump would beat. I think he’d beat Kamala Harris, too.

 

[Crayfish57]

Of course they would be. Biden was a candidate that wasn’t going to offend anyone and that’s all the D’s needed in 2020. Depending on who the Rs put up, that may not work again. Clinton would be disastrous. I can’t see them doing that.

I don't know about that, Biden sure as hell offended me long before he was elected and I'm not the only one

 

[SKYDOG]

If the Rs run somebody who is not Trump (without his baggage), but somebody who runs on his policies and does it in a “kinder”, more stable way, that candidate will win in 2024. I think Trump is too damaged, too tarnished to win in 2024. Tired of the continual drama.

Hitllary has definitely been signaling she wants to run again. She’s damaged as much as Trump and the truth is she’s about the only R candidate who Trump would beat. I think he’d beat Kamala Harris, too.

Be careful with those predictions. The Democrats may promise voters money to secure votes. Remember they did it for senate seats in Georgia.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

If the Rs run somebody who is not Trump (without his baggage), but somebody who runs on his policies and does it in a “kinder”, more stable way, that candidate will win in 2024. I think Trump is too damaged, too tarnished to win in 2024. Tired of the continual drama.

Hitllary has definitely been signaling she wants to run again. She’s damaged as much as Trump and the truth is she’s about the only R candidate who Trump would beat. I think he’d beat Kamala Harris, too.

Agree with all of this. I just don’t think Bernie, Hillary, or Harris are starters in 2024. But we will see. As much as the Rs need to get clear of Trump, the Ds need to get clear of Bernie and the crazy ass progressive left IMO.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Agree with all of this. I just don’t think Bernie, Hillary, or Harris are starters in 2024. But we will see. As much as the Rs need to get clear of Trump, the Ds need to get clear of Bernie and the crazy ass progressive left IMO.

Trump will run away with the nomination in '24. It's hilarious that nevertrumpers still think he is the problem. He is the only one who has come out ahead in this entire mess.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Trump will run away with the nomination in '24. It's hilarious that nevertrumpers still think he is the problem. He is the only one who has come out ahead in this entire mess.

I’m anything but a NeverTrumper, but he lost big to Biden already (7M votes) and he has tons of baggage. Millions of people will not vote for him because of his style/demeanor. If he is the nominee, I question whether he can win.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I’m anything but a NeverTrumper, but he lost big to Biden already (7M votes) and he has tons of baggage. Millions of people will not vote for him because of his style/demeanor. If he is the nominee, I question whether he can win.

Hell, he already lost to Hillary once by 3M votes in the popular vote. (And no, I did not vote for her.)

 

[guidelinesa2]

I’m anything but a NeverTrumper, but he lost big to Biden already (7M votes) and he has tons of baggage. Millions of people will not vote for him because of his style/demeanor. If he is the nominee, I question whether he can win.

Lol

 

[guidelinesa2]

Hell, he already lost to Hillary once by 3M votes in the popular vote. (And no, I did not vote for her.)

Who won that election genius? Who won the popular vote outside CA?

 

[Droid12345]

Who won that election genius? Who won the popular vote outside CA?

This is actually a really good point because I heard somewhere that they're not going to count CA's votes in 2024.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Republicans haven't stood against excess for 20 years. Trump is probably a bad idea, but he's a symptom of incompetent political leadership, not the disease.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Trump will run away with the nomination in '24. It's hilarious that nevertrumpers still think he is the problem. He is the only one who has come out ahead in this entire mess.

Registered R, and I didn’t vote for Trump in 2020, and I won’t in 2024 either.

 

[Crayfish57]

This is actually a really good point because I heard somewhere that they're not going to count CA's votes in 2024.

I know you are kind of slow about stuff like this. The CA electorate is going dem regardless so whether they win in a shutout it can only have so much effect.

 

[guidelinesa2]

This is actually a really good point because I heard somewhere that they're not going to count CA's votes in 2024.

Popular vote is irrelevant when you lose the electoral college. Just because 65% of people in CA and NY voted for Clinton, doesn't mean shit when 52% of the rest of the country voted for Trump.

Trump will run again and Trump will win because once again he will be the only guy running who puts voter's interests in line with their actual interests.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Republicans haven't stood against excess for 20 years. Trump is probably a bad idea, but he's a symptom of incompetent political leadership, not the disease.

Trump was a response to the effort to run Jeb! in '16. He was also the only candidate who could credibly claim to care about the actual interests of voters, not the interests of the globalists packaged as their interests.

None of that has changed.

 

[SKYDOG]

Registered R, and I didn’t vote for Trump in 2020, and I won’t in 2024 either.

So you voted for Lieden or didn’t vote for either?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

So you voted for Lieden or didn’t vote for either?

Neither. Voting for Slow Joe is something I could never have lived with. Almost as bad as voting for Donald in 2016.

 

[SKYDOG]

Neither. Voting for Slow Joe is something I could never have lived with. Almost as bad as voting for Donald in 2016.

Me either, but you’re saying the Lieden presidency is better so far than the Trump presidency.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Neither. Voting for Slow Joe is something I could never have lived with. Almost as bad as voting for Donald in 2016.

So you wasted your votes on Gary Johnson and Jo Jorgensen in 2016 and 2020? Neither one of those candidates had a snowball’s chance in hell of winning.

 

[guidelinesa2]

I'd like to know what this so-called "middle" is people on here think they stand for. What issue defines the political middle?

It's really just the status quo, or in another sense, a vote for the failures of the past. Why would anyone want a generic candidate. Biden was supposedly that and he is anything but a moderate. Any Republican on the other hand will be treated like the devil incarnate by the media, and sell out on every difficult decision. So why would anyone vote for an establishment politician who they know cannot trust?

 

[Indy_Rider]

Agree with all of this. I just don’t think Bernie, Hillary, or Harris are starters in 2024. But we will see. As much as the Rs need to get clear of Trump, the Ds need to get clear of Bernie and the crazy ass progressive left IMO.

But you are overlooking one really important thing that has kind of led to the disaster. The people voting in primaries tend to be the extremes of the party. You don't have conservatives voting in the Democratic primary to help pick a more moderate candidate and vice versa. So you are going to get a candidate that is more likely to appeal to the extremes of the party. I think it took a lot of dirty politics and backroom deals to get Biden the nomination, he sure didn't excite anyone and do as well in the early primaries and I don't think there is anyway he wins with out the pandemic and ability to hide in his basement the entire time. The more a candidate is forced to actually go out and campaign the harder it is for the media to cover for them.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

But you are overlooking one really important thing that has kind of led to the disaster. The people voting in primaries tend to be the extremes of the party. You don't have conservatives voting in the Democratic primary to help pick a more moderate candidate and vice versa. So you are going to get a candidate that is more likely to appeal to the extremes of the party. I think it took a lot of dirty politics and backroom deals to get Biden the nomination, he sure didn't excite anyone and do as well in the early primaries and I don't think there is anyway he wins with out the pandemic and ability to hide in his basement the entire time. The more a candidate is forced to actually go out and campaign the harder it is for the media to cover for them.

I’m registered as an Independent here. I voted in both the 2016 and 2020 Democratic primaries (for Clinton and Biden) for exactly that reason - to try and keep Sanders off the ticket entirely. So your point is probably true overall, but there are some of us who try to make sure the middle is represented.

I would rather have a far right President than a far left one (to a point). But give me someone with character in the middle every time. The legislature is going to do what it does, and I only get to vote for one in each side.

 

[Droid12345]

Popular vote is irrelevant when you lose the electoral college. Just because 65% of people in CA and NY voted for Clinton, doesn't mean shit when 52% of the rest of the country voted for Trump.

Agreed, so you should’ve stopped with “who won the election“ to make the point that Trump won despite the popular vote. The second sentence only serves to imply you don’t think CA voters actually matter, which is just ridiculous. Who won the popular vote outside CA means even less than who won it overall. Who won the basketball game the other night outside of Michigan’s 3-pointers?

Of course, even that the fact that Trump won doesn’t change the fact that Clinton was the candidate that the VOTERS preferred in 2016, which was gr8’s original point. He won because of the way the rules are, not because he was the preferred candidate by the majority of voters.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I’m registered as an Independent here. I voted in both the 2016 and 2020 Democratic primaries (for Clinton and Biden) for exactly that reason - to try and keep Sanders off the ticket entirely. So your point is probably true overall, but there are some of us who try to make sure the middle is represented.

I would rather have a far right President than a far left one (to a point). But give me someone with character in the middle every time. The legislature is going to do what it does, and I only get to vote for one in each side.

I generally agree with what you’re saying. Biden was anything but a moderate D. Joe Manchin is a moderate D. They are a dying breed.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Agreed, so you should’ve stopped with “who won the election“ to make the point that Trump won despite the popular vote. The second sentence only serves to imply you don’t think CA voters actually matter, which is just ridiculous. Who won the popular vote outside CA means even less than who won it overall. Who won the basketball game the other night outside of Michigan’s 3-pointers?

Of course, even that the fact that Trump won doesn’t change the fact that Clinton was the candidate that the VOTERS preferred in 2016, which was gr8’s original point. He won because of the way the rules are, not because he was the preferred candidate by the majority of voters.

Trump won because we have a democratic republic form of government not a pure democracy where more total votes wins. This was done on purpose by the founding fathers. They wanted every state to have a say in National elections. They did not want states like NY and CA to decide every election. They were trying to avoid the so-called “tyranny of the masses” so it doesn’t matter that HRC ran up big totals in CA and NY in 2016. Those two states don’t get to decide every election by themselves. Thank God got that.

 

[Droid12345]

Trump won because we have a democratic republic form of government not a pure democracy where more total votes wins. This was done on purpose by the founding fathers. They wanted every state to have a say in National elections. They did not want states like NY and CA to decide every election. They were trying to avoid the so-called “tyranny of the masses” so it doesn’t matter that HRC ran up big totals in CA and NY in 2016. Those two states don’t get to decide every election by themselves. Thank God got that.

I don't need the electoral college explained to me, I understand how it works, thanks. The fact that we have a system that ignores a large percentage of voters doesn't change the fact that the voters preferred Clinton in 2016. You can legitimately say that Trump won the election according to the rules in place, but you cannot say that the body of individual voters preferred him.

Gr8 had pointed out that Trump already lost the popular vote to Clinton, presumably to suggest that maybe it wouldn't be a great idea for the Republicans to run Trump against Clinton again. Guidelines questioned the relevancy of Gr8's point because Trump won the election despite that fact. I had no problem with that part of Guidelines' post, though just because it happened that way the first time doesn't mean it would again -- as a sidebar, I'd suggest that continually running candidates that don't appeal to a majority of voters is not a good long-term strategy, despite the fact that it has worked a couple times in the recent past. Guidelines then also asked "who won the popular vote outside of CA?" I simply pointed out that, if indeed the popular vote is the topic of discussion (as in Gr8's original post), ignoring CA's contribution to it makes no sense.

I understand that CA's contribution to the popular vote has little to no relevance with respect to the election winner. But you can't just say that Trump won the popular vote outside of CA and have that mean anything with respect to the overall popular vote. It's akin, as I suggested, to ignoring Michigan's 3-pointers from Thursday night and suggesting that, outside of those, Purdue won the game (in this analogy, I'm using "game" in place of "popular vote," not "election").

All that said, I was really just making a little joke at Guidelines' expense regarding his apparent belief that CA's votes don't matter with respect to the popular vote. Clearly, it was a poorly conceived and/or executed joke, since at least some folks didn't get it as evidenced by the fact that I've had to explain it now twice. I'll bow out of the discussion now and sign up for an online comedy class so I can do better next time.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I don't need the electoral college explained to me, I understand how it works, thanks. The fact that we have a system that ignores a large percentage of voters doesn't change the fact that the voters preferred Clinton in 2016. You can legitimately say that Trump won the election according to the rules in place, but you cannot say that the body of individual voters preferred him.

Gr8 had pointed out that Trump already lost the popular vote to Clinton, presumably to suggest that maybe it wouldn't be a great idea for the Republicans to run Trump against Clinton again. Guidelines questioned the relevancy of Gr8's point because Trump won the election despite that fact. I had no problem with that part of Guidelines' post, though just because it happened that way the first time doesn't mean it would again -- as a sidebar, I'd suggest that continually running candidates that don't appeal to a majority of voters is not a good long-term strategy, despite the fact that it has worked a couple times in the recent past. Guidelines then also asked "who won the popular vote outside of CA?" I simply pointed out that, if indeed the popular vote is the topic of discussion (as in Gr8's original post), ignoring CA's contribution to it makes no sense.

I understand that CA's contribution to the popular vote has little to no relevance with respect to the election winner. But you can't just say that Trump won the popular vote outside of CA and have that mean anything with respect to the overall popular vote. It's akin, as I suggested, to ignoring Michigan's 3-pointers from Thursday night and suggesting that, outside of those, Purdue won the game (in this analogy, I'm using "game" in place of "popular vote," not "election").

All that said, I was really just making a little joke at Guidelines' expense regarding his apparent belief that CA's votes don't matter with respect to the popular vote. Clearly, it was a poorly conceived and/or executed joke, since at least some folks didn't get it as evidenced by the fact that I've had to explain it now twice. I'll bow out of the discussion now and sign up for an online comedy class so I can do better next time.

At the end of the day, WGAF that HRC won the vote count (largely because of running up rallies in NY and CA), because Trump won the election 304-227. That’s all that really matters.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I generally agree with what you’re saying. Biden was anything but a moderate D. Joe Manchin is a moderate D. They are a dying breed.

Joe Manchin would be called a DINO. Need more of him on BOTH sides of the aisle. I know Biden isn't Manchin-level moderate, but when you're presented with Biden/Clinton vs. Bernie Sanders, well, there you go.

I don't like Ted Cruz for the same reasons, but would prefer Cruz over Trump (barely). There were about seven people on the stage that I would've taken over Trump.

Point is, a lot of people on the right sit there and point at the left and call them all Communists. A lot of people on the left look at the right and call them all Nationalists. When you skew one way or the other, anyone left/right of center looks extreme to you... so the problem isn't necessarily the parties themselves.

The problem for a lot of people is binary political ideology. It plays out in this forum all the time. It plays out when Democrats criticize Manchin for having actual principles. It plays out when Republicans ridicule never Trumpers and "RINOs".

Binary partisan politics is the problem. If you can't get past cheering for your team, then I have no time for you. I have no respect for that kind of simpleton stupidity on either side. (Some are far, far worse than others).

 

[gr8indoorsman]

At the end of the day, WGAF that HRC won the vote count (largely because of running up rallies in NY and CA), because Trump won the election 304-227. That’s all that really matters.

Everyone knows that. Yes, I understand and appreciate the purpose of the electoral college. It would be idiotic to put up a candidate that's lost two popular elections by 10 million votes and just hope that the electoral math works out in your favor. I haven't looked at the history, but I can't imagine it's all that common for a popular vote loser to win the electoral college. Seems a dumb way to plan for a win to nominate Trump and hope that tide somehow turns.

There's plenty of latitude for a moderate Republican to appeal to people who held their nose and voted for Biden, willing to live with the short-term consequences given the status of SCOTUS, House and Senate. I've accepted the fact that the party will kneel to Trump for the short term, and whomever is nominated in '24 will probably have to say some things to curry favor with the idiot side of the Republican party, just like Democrats say some things to curry favor with the idiot progressives.