Look i hardly ever post but i feel i need to speak up. After last night's game my first thought was "fire painter". Then i snapped back to reality. With all the talent coming back next year, i dont want to mess that up. Painter isnt a BAD coach. Is he GREAT? No. But you know you can win and probably compete for the BIG championship. I think if the same crap happens next year then he is gone. With the takent coming back i think its elite 8 or bust next year. Swanigan is gonna be a beast, Haas is gonna be a beast, edwards a beast. MATHIAS is gonna be really good, and weatherford is gonna be oir defensive stopper like ray. next years team will be better than this years team. Maybe not as good defensively.
Painter
- Thread starter mich7777
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yeah freaking right!
Next year's team is not more talented than this year's team.
They will win less games. And def not making it to Elite 8
Once again it's "next year we're going to be great". We won't be. They'll be top 25, make the tournament and and win a game or two. Basically what Purdue has done for the last 35 years.
Purdue football and basketball have been more hype than results for quite a while now.
Purdue football and basketball have been more hype than results for quite a while now.
Haas has never been the focal point of a game. How many games has he played more than 25 minutes here at Purdue?
Mathias is a good role player and nothing more. He isn't a guy to put the ball in his hands and ask him to win a game. He is a SG/SF with limited athletic ability and high basketball IQ.
Swanigan, pending improved offensive skills and decision making, is an elite rebounder and average offensive/defensive player.
Edwards is a player who is a flow offensive player, that without proper movement of the ball has a hard time creating his own shot. When the team plays team ball, Edwards can easily put up 15-20 points. BUT he relies on others to make him a scorer.
Weatherford should not be expected to come in and simply play defense as a stopper next season because if he was able to do that this season, he would have been playing. If he could have provided anything at all, Painter would have used him. The fact is he is a project guy who could become that type of player later in his career.
I simply don't see how you lose two of the best defenders in the last 10 years of the B1G (probably the best paint defender in the B1G in the last 30 years) and get better when the program is said to be built on defense. You aren't adding any new high ability offensive weapons next season and the defense will arguably be worse....tell me again how that leads to an improved overall team?
Mathias is a good role player and nothing more. He isn't a guy to put the ball in his hands and ask him to win a game. He is a SG/SF with limited athletic ability and high basketball IQ.
Swanigan, pending improved offensive skills and decision making, is an elite rebounder and average offensive/defensive player.
Edwards is a player who is a flow offensive player, that without proper movement of the ball has a hard time creating his own shot. When the team plays team ball, Edwards can easily put up 15-20 points. BUT he relies on others to make him a scorer.
Weatherford should not be expected to come in and simply play defense as a stopper next season because if he was able to do that this season, he would have been playing. If he could have provided anything at all, Painter would have used him. The fact is he is a project guy who could become that type of player later in his career.
I simply don't see how you lose two of the best defenders in the last 10 years of the B1G (probably the best paint defender in the B1G in the last 30 years) and get better when the program is said to be built on defense. You aren't adding any new high ability offensive weapons next season and the defense will arguably be worse....tell me again how that leads to an improved overall team?
Without significant improvement from multiple players, we are a bubble team next year. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.
Our expectations have been officially lowered:
Painter: 11 years
8 NCAA tournaments
2 times to Sweet 16
At this point - it is a success to make the tournament and win a game.
To say we are a basketball "power" or top 20 program is no longer the case or expectation.
Painter: 11 years
8 NCAA tournaments
2 times to Sweet 16
At this point - it is a success to make the tournament and win a game.
To say we are a basketball "power" or top 20 program is no longer the case or expectation.
Without a great athlete/go-to guy, a playground eat-dirt-and-die guy, and a dramatic increase in warrior spirit ... you are totally on target. We don't have those right now and it will be tough for a freshman to be "the one." We lost yesterday's Battle ... and the game went with it.
lets see how some of the players improve and how good Purdue is next year before we make too many predictions, Cline will be better, Smotherman coming back , look for Taylor to be playing, Point guard should be as good if not better, just never know, sometimes all a player needs is a year or two and a chance to play.
Actually, you might be mistaken. I respect your opinion, but I chjoose to disagree. Hass not the focal point? He started a good number of games this year and last. He has some NCAA catagories he leads in per minute played. I think he will be pretty good, and maybe better than AJ. He won't have the off the bench backup AJ had in Haas, but he will do okay.
Mathias will probabaly start next year at the 2-guard spot. He is much more than a role player. He is our best passer, he has enough defensive moxy to stay with most guards, and he can handle the ball better than Ray. Furthermore, he is a deadly shot. IMHO Mathias >> Ray Day.
Edwards has improved every year, and I expect him to be a team leader next year. Edwards 2017>> Edwards2016.
Carson Edwards is likely to be one of the best PG's we have had. A far better scorer than Hill, LJ, and Kramer.
I will give you that AJ's shot blocking ability is not matched by Haas, but when I look across the tourney teams, very few have a shot blocker like AJ. So, my conclusion is that AJ's specific talent is nice to have but not required to be a winning team. SO next year, maybe our defense slides a littel, but our offense should improve, and our lack of offense is what lost the NCAA game for us last night.
I think we desperately need Cullen Neal and Carsen Edwards next year. I think if Painter figures out that guards need freedom and guards ultimately win you tournament games, we could be a better team next year.
Cullen Neal and Carsen Edwards are the type of guard we currently don't have...shooters, slashers, distributers, playmaking that keeps defenses honest.
I'm not confident that Painter will figure out how to best utilize Haas and Swanigan, but if he does and both Neal and Carsen Edwards actually come, I think we will be a much more well rounded team with a better shot at tournament success.
Cullen Neal and Carsen Edwards are the type of guard we currently don't have...shooters, slashers, distributers, playmaking that keeps defenses honest.
I'm not confident that Painter will figure out how to best utilize Haas and Swanigan, but if he does and both Neal and Carsen Edwards actually come, I think we will be a much more well rounded team with a better shot at tournament success.
I doubt he ever gives guards freedom, he tried that with Ronnie and it didn't work!
I agree with your thoughts on that we need to see some improvement for next year before truly making a judgement call. But, use some rational thought and level-headed expectations to how much improvement you are going to see.
Haas can't really become more agile and bend much better than he is now. He could improve his mid-range jumper but he isn't that type of player where a mid-range jumper suddenly makes him a better offensive player due to his quick-movement ability. He is a back to the basket-low block player.
Smotherman is a player who could provide some answers to the problems next season, but I don't see a player sitting out a year as a junior suddenly becoming something he has yet to show an ability to have. He is Troy Williams without the ability to his jump shots.
Cline will be better but history shows players that are shooting threats suffer a type of sophomore slump at some point. Remember it took Ryne Smith two full years before he was a truly serviceable player as his defense was severely lacking. That showed yesterday for Cline when the guards for UALR went directly at him any time he was in the game.
Taylor is an intriguing player but to think he will come in and provide an uptick to what was provided for the combo of Hammons and Haas isn't likely. Hammons and Haas versus Haas and Taylor. I'd take the Hammons and Haas combo every day.
I truly hope that players make the necessary improvements to push the program forward more but like I said..you are removing two of the best defenders in the B1G in the last ten years and not adding a known scoring threat to the team. You are removing a player who could give 25-30 minutes as a center on offense when the player filling his spot has never played much more than 20 ever.
I'm not saying the team will be awful and they could easily get to 20 wins but they won't be favored to win the regular season or conference tourney when MSU and IU will likely be just as good if not better at the top while Whisky and OSU will be vastly improved. That puts Purdue squarely in the 5th to 8th range for the conference.
It's a complete JOKE that you lump our basketball and football program into the same results. You lose all credibility pulling that.
Interesting...people were complaining yesterday that he lets players do what they want too much. Now he doesn't and is too controlling?
You can't be both....
I agree with lbodel and he and I certainly haven't agree all that much today. Mainly because there has been zero hype about Purdue football over the last 6-8 years. What is occurring with the football team is a monumental disaster the likes haven't been seen in the B1G in some 15-20 years (early 90's to mid-late 90's IU football). The basketball program isn't in that same discussion at all and have had success. The issue is that many feel Painter has found the ceiling for his coaching ability whereas Hazel has discovered there are multiple trap doors to the basement we initially thought that he had placed Purdue in.
I agree with everything you say ... but I stand fast to our need for a warrior/playground scrapper and a super athletic go-to-guy. Perhaps C. Edwards is at least one of those - we won't know until we know. We cannot predict how anyone will play at this level until they do. Just being better at each position does not give us those intangible things that make a team a winner.Actually, you might be mistaken. I respect your opinion, but I chjoose to disagree. Hass not the focal point? He started a good number of games this year and last. He has some NCAA catagories he leads in per minute played. I think he will be pretty good, and maybe better than AJ. He won't have the off the bench backup AJ had in Haas, but he will do okay.
Mathias will probabaly start next year at the 2-guard spot. He is much more than a role player. He is our best passer, he has enough defensive moxy to stay with most guards, and he can handle the ball better than Ray. Furthermore, he is a deadly shot. IMHO Mathias >> Ray Day.
Edwards has improved every year, and I expect him to be a team leader next year. Edwards 2017>> Edwards2016.
Carson Edwards is likely to be one of the best PG's we have had. A far better scorer than Hill, LJ, and Kramer.
I will give you that AJ's shot blocking ability is not matched by Haas, but when I look across the tourney teams, very few have a shot blocker like AJ. So, my conclusion is that AJ's specific talent is nice to have but not required to be a winning team. SO next year, maybe our defense slides a littel, but our offense should improve, and our lack of offense is what lost the NCAA game for us last night.
I believe we will be a better team next year primarily because of what Mathboy defines as the improvements. Haas will give us more of a threat on offense (I am sure this is contentious, but Haas will get the ball into his hands and hopefully not lose it), AJ often did not do what it took to get the ball. Defending a big is easy if you don't let him get the ball. Mathias will play more and is as good a post-entry passer as I have seen.
But he has clearly seen how it does work for the teams we have lost to. I'm not sure Ronnie is a good situation to base that decision on.
Neal would be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if Noodles tried to steer him toward West Lafayette given the deep respect he voiced for Painter following the New Mexico game in December.
I will add one more positive thought. Swanigan is very aggressive and a Take-No-Prisoners type player. If he cuts his turnovers, I expect him to be on the flour almost all minutes because he will not let his team lose.
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