Candid Coaches: Who is the best college basketball coach yet to make a Final Four?
There are plenty of great coaches who haven't made it to college basketball's final weekend
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Painter: Best Coach yet to Make a Final Four
- Thread starter Steve83
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Time to change that! Some slightly disappointing quotes. They call Purdue "a middle-of-the-pack Big Ten" job. Gotta change that narrative as well. Purdue needs to be seen as more than a middle of the pack job.
- "I've had the opportunity to coach against Matt for years and see it live. He's not getting these McDonald's All-Americans. He's taking these guys who fit his university, his program and every year they get better and better. He's an unbelievable offensive coach and an underrated defensive coach. I respect the way he does things."
- "The best active coach yet to make a Final Four is Matt Painter. He's had a brilliant run at a middle-of-the-pack Big Ten job with a blueprint that consistently has worked."
I mean middle of the pack could well refer to salaries. Painter was 6th best paid in the conference last year. On the football side Ryan walters is one of the cheapest in the conference. Hard to argue with the characterization if it’s related to those numbers.
No one denies Painter is a good Xs and Os coach.
The argument is that he's not a great recruiter, doesn't seem to make a lot of in game adjustments (or even adjustments to not focusing on running the offense through the post every year), and has a very spotty tourney record.
The whole "do more with less" tag on Purdue hurts the program.
The argument is that he's not a great recruiter, doesn't seem to make a lot of in game adjustments (or even adjustments to not focusing on running the offense through the post every year), and has a very spotty tourney record.
The whole "do more with less" tag on Purdue hurts the program.
Wishful thinking. I don't think they meant salaries. I think they meant job and program perception.
Purdue is middle of the pack in the big ten....Painter and Keady made this job look better than it is....msu, mich, osu, Wisconsin, Illinois, Maryland, iu would be considered better jobs....
Dang, that is such a losers mentality. This job is much better than you're giving it credit for, and it's that type of mentality that keeps Purdue from ascending to its true potential.
Raise your vibration and leve of consciousness. You're playing small with that type of mentality.
I believe some posters here need to step away from Purdue for a few years. Move to a place outside of Indiana and make friends with people who are not Purdue alumni. While you believe Purdue is an awesome school and the Purdue head coaching job is an awesome job, your views are not shared by anybody who lives outside of Indiana! I’ve lived in over 12 different states from Florida to California and from Texas to Wisconsin. If you take the time to ask anybody from any other state what their perception of Purdue is they will all tell you it’s a middle of the road university in the BIG 10. Even our famous engineering school is no longer considered among the top 5! Ask anybody in Carolina to name some top basketball programs! Purdue is not a name that comes up. Ask someone in Texas their opinion of Purdue and they will say it’s a good school, but they won’t say it’s awesome. Ask anybody outside Indiana who they believe the top coach in the BIG 10 is and the name Painter won’t be mentioned! Ask anybody outside of Indiana if they could even name a Purdue all American and I doubt they remember who Swanigan or ivey or Edey is. Purdue does a very bad job of marketing their players, coach, team and university! Everybody outside Indiana will say Izzo, msu, OSU, and Michigan regardless of year and regardless of record. And Purdue is 4th -6th best team. If you don’t believe me, next time you take a vacation outside of Indiana ask 5 people young and old what they think are the top 5 basketball schools in the Big 10 and if they can name one basketball player from Purdue . I believe you will be saddened by their replies! People remember Bobby Knight! Nobody outside Indiana remembers Gene Keady. It’s similar for Drew Brees. Ask anybody to name the top 5 QBs of all time. The replies will not include Breese
You know Lee rose and schaus left because of knight don't you?....tough to build a championship program when your coaches keep leaving....we're lucky keady came when he did or our program would've had a revolving door of coaches like our football team during that time....if cuonzo is such a good coach, why hasn't someone hired him by now?....maybe it's because he leaves programs in shambles after he's done with them....we're lucky that Painter has stuck around, nil is not something that Purdue embraces like other schools....we won't use it to buy players like iu or Kansas....
Purdue is currently the third most popular college in the state....we don't get the pick of the litter for top in state talent....you must not get out much because Purdue isn't thought of as a top program in any sport even though we've had a lot of success in basketball under keady and Painter....I love your enthusiasm for Purdue but you have to live in reality....we're not thought of as a top job in the big ten...the other schools I mentioned have much larger followings and more money from football to use for bball recruits....
Agree that the 'loser mentality' argument seems silly and that Purdue typically faces an uphill battle vs IU in basketball recruiting and typically has at least two and up to three legitimate in state competitors for talent in IU, ND and Butler before even worrying about the MSU's, UNC's and KU's of the world skimming the top in state talent.
Since missing on TJD to IU in 2019 in a recruitment where Purdue was never really considered, Painter has done pretty well with in state talent. He had no major in state recruiting losses in 2020 and 2021, landing Ivey, TKR and Furst in those years and missing on Pack to KSU (along with everyone else). 2022 and 2023 have been a little more of a mixed bag, losing Washington to UNC and Booker to MSU but signing high priority guys in Loyer, Smith and Colvin. 2024 looks like a win, losing Bidunga to KU but signing Catchings and Benter.
2019
- Losses - TJD to IU
- Wins - Gillis and Newman (no real competition for IT)
2020
- Losses - none (Lander to IU was a net win)
- Wins - Jaden Ivey
- Misses - Nijel Pack to KSU
2021
- Losses - none
- Wins - TKR and Furst
- Misses - ???
2022
- Losses - Jalen Washington to UNC
- Wins - Loyer (no real competition for Smith)
- Misses - Connor Essegian to Wisky
2023
- Losses - Booker to MSU
- Wins - Colvin
- Misses - ???
20242
- Losses - Bidunga to KU
- Wins - Catchings
- Misses - ???
Tell that to Baylor, who won a national title and has elevated its program to top-notch status.
Tell that to Gonzaga, who has built itself into a national power.
Tell that to Villanova, which, not that it wasn't a good program before, was taken to new heights with Jay Wright.
You gotta stop settling, and it starts in the mind. Purdue has the history, a basketball rich state, a stable foundation and coach, and a bigger following and brand than you're giving it credit for.
If you belive you aren't good enough, then you will act like you aren't good enough, and shortcomings will continue to be realized.
There's a whole country and world out there. Expand out a bit. Stop focusing on IU so much.
So why let others' perception dictate? Do you let the opinions of others dicate what you believe and how you live your life? Unfortunately, most do.
Before Gonzaga became a powerhouse, who/what was Gonzaga?
Before Baylor won a national title, what/who was Baylor?
Shall I go on?
Create the reality you want. Purdue absolutely can do that and take the program to another level.
Nobody is saying Purdue is God's gift to earth. There are other remarkable, more well-known institutions out there, but Purdue has plenty to work with.
The only thing holding it back is itself.
Preach it bro, manifest that shit!
Yes go on. You give two or three examples nationwide who have done this over the last 20 years. That sounds a lot more like luck than some realistic blueprint to follow. Were it as simple as “go do what gonzaga did” you might think more folks would be doing it.
I'm talking about Martin being the lead NIL fundraiser/recruiter for Purdue's
head coach. Schaus could flat out recruit. Helps when you were coaching
Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in the NBA Finals against the mighty Boston
Celtics beforehand. Had Kyle Macy not left for UK, Purdue would have
won a NC back then. Rose led such talent to the FF minus Macy.
Doesn't matter how great of a coach you are if you don't have
the horses to compete. Purdue can be this way again whenever it decides
to change. Either give Painter an NIL fundraiser/recruiter like Martin or
get a new head coach. It's that simple.
Yeah Purdue does spend that kind of money...but donate a ton and see what happens!... we're recruiting the best we've done in awhile...Painter has got this program rolling!....
Yeah there's a lot more programs that have fallen on their face recently....how many years did it take few, Wright, drew to break through?...few and drew are quite the cheaters btw...
When Purdue returns to the Final Four, then we will be rolling.
We need to get Harris this fall to improve guard depth and athleticism.
Continue to focus on the negative, and that will be the reality. Continue to find excuses, as they will always be there.
This is so true. I'm guessing if you're an engineer the brand of Purdue means something but outside of that Purdue is just another school. From a sports perspective think Virginia Tech, NC State, Kansas State or Texas Tech.
Mark Few finally made the Final Four in his 18th season. Prior to that, Gonzaga was a perennial high seed and was generally seen as the program that couldn’t get it done in the Big Dance. Mark Few was a great coach before his Final Four, as he is now, and the Gonzaga administration did well to recognize that and support him until the Final Four breakthrough. They still haven’t won a title, but I like their chances to do so before Few retires.
And I think you’re overstating how fixed a brand name is.
Look at Colorado with Deion Sanders. Its brand is completely changed.
Or, let’s look at a brand like New Balance. 10 years ago, New Balance was in the depths. Today, as a result of rebranded itself, it’s seen as a legitimate player and style brand.
Purdue is so rigid and strict that it prevents itself from its proper evolution.
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Until Purdue makes a Final Four or even makes a national title game, I'm afraid our brand will be pretty much be status quo. College Football is the bigger brand builder and I don't see Purdue's football program improving our status anytime soon.
My point wasn’t to use Colorado as an example of the pinnacle evolution; it was to point out that it IS a possible to change the perception of a brand. And, yes, I believe there are healthy ways to do that.
What is it about Colorado/what Colorado has done that you don’t like?
I'd argue that Purdue's brand for basketball has improved considerably over the past five years, starting with the Carsen run and continuing with Jaden and being ranked #1 for the first time and then Zach and a season where Purdue was ranked #1 for a significant portion of the season. They're also carrying the stink of being upset in the NCAAT the last three years but I think MP and Purdue are now considered to be one of the best programs in the country in a way that wasn't true since Robbie and company.
Finish second on top 20 recruits and you'll be fired before you know it....I know Purdue's place in college sports...you swing for the fences but miss you'll end up mediocre real quick...get guys in that fit your system and develop them...don't try to recruit the top players when that's not your program's MO....iu is about to find that out....Michigan is finding that out too with Howard...Illinois is too with underwood....Minnesota hired their coach because they thought he would keep all the local talent there...hasn't worked too well for them....
Purdue returns to Final Four in 2025 San Antonio.
That's my last Final Four prediction.
I see a Sweet 16 / Elite 8 in 2024, but I hope I'm wrong.
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86 new players on the team this year. Some soon-to-be seniors told to leave when they had one year left before graduating from CU. Yes, I'm old school and want to cheer for players who chose the school as much as the program and want to stay there. Yes, it was tough to watch the Purdue football game Saturday with all the new players. With the transfer portal now, I feel my time as a college football/basketball fan (my two favorite sports) is nearing the end. The basketball team is stable (for now) and therefore easy to cheer for.
Where did I say Purdue should be going after top 20 recruits?
You don't need top 20 recruits to not play a back-to-the-basket style that appears to struggle come NCAA tournament time.
You don't need top 20 recruits to play a more dynamic, less predictable free-flowing style of offense (see FDU and St. Peters).
Carsen Edwards and Jaden Ivey weren't top 20 recruits.
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So you're saying Zach Edey is holding us back?....he's a back to the basket guy, why didn't we encourage him to leave so we can play this new age type of basketball that you want?....maybe it's because we play the best players we can get?....iveys and carsens don't come around often...I'm sure painter would love to get great wings and mobile centers with great athleticism, but those guys are hard to come by....he goes after guys that he can develop that are under the radar....btw we didn't lose to st Pete's or fdu because of back to the basket players...edey had 25 and 15 and Trevion and edey both scored in double figures in the Sweet sixteen game....maybe it was the players around edey last year that turned the ball over and couldn't shoot and the fact that our superstar guard had more turnovers than points until the end against st peters....
Can’t be mad at Deion for his roster moves. It’s a problem with college sports and transfer rules. In effect, he has become a GM for a minor league franchise. Totally get your old school point. Wish it was how it was but it clearly isn’t anymore.
Rolling? Not sure we can be rolling when we've had massive tourney failures 3 of the last 4 years.
I think Purdue has a higher athletic profile than all those schools.
I could care less about who's on the team and how they got there as long as they win.
Counzo Martin, who just got fired from Mizzou cause he was awful there? Some of these takes are seriously scorching hot......
A sweet 16 isn't a tourney failure. 16 of 364 teams do that each year. We were upset in that round so it was a disappointment, but that same team upset UK in the first round (they also haven't gone looking for a new coach yet, and obviously are a more well regarded program).
Also if you go back the last 6 tourneys our record is one of the best in the nation consistency wise. There are like 5 teams in the nation that have gone S16 or better in 4 of the last 6 tourneys. We just need to figure out how to not choke to teams that dare the refs to make a call every possession, and the refs let the play go. I suppose the last choke job was just as much no one hitting a wide open shot, but the S16 the year before was 100% bully ball taking us out of the game.
TLDR: Stop exaggerating how bad things are. We got to fix a couple of things (better/more athletic guard play, and not letting bully ball get into our heads). Back to the basket will work fine, if the supporting cast can take advantage of double/triple team and Zach gets better at immediately tossing it back out to the open man when said double team happens.
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