OU to Big Ten?
- Thread starter TheBoris
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maybe part of this would to restore the NU - OU rivalry, what about when psu joined , there was no rumors about Pitt which is a much better school academically than the BIG12 ones, but I know it's about the TV markets.
Also about the fact the Big 12 is a dying conference. My guess is that Kansas, Kansas St, Baylor, and Okie St jump to the Pac 12 while Texas and Texas Tech probably jump to the SEC. That would leave OU, Iowa State, TCU, and WVU. I am guessing WVU could easily join the ACC while TCU may be relegated back to a sub-P5 conference in the AAC. That would leave a double expansion to the B1G to the West which would push Purdue to the East which would make the divide of the conference the Indiana/Illinois border. Purdue would have an immense of a rebuild if they suddenly found themselves playing MSU, PSU, OSU, and Michigan every year.
I was on the faculty at Texas A&M at the time the Aggies left the B12 for the SEC. A&M was furious about the start-up of the Longhorn Network and the way it was done. Texas A&M will go balls to the wall to keep Texas out of the SEC and I do not believe that the SEC will ever be an option for UT.
Texas is one of the 5 best programs in the country and has a massive following. A&M can fight it all they want, but the SEC would take them if the terms were right. The TV deal would be the only stumbling block.
I fear UT thinks they are to big for the Big and will want a special deal like they have now, not an equal deal. I'd pass on them and take OU first as I don't think they will ruffle feathers, though worry about them academically fitting.
In some ways, I could see Texas being full enough of themselves to go Independent. You really can't under estimate the size of their ego.
Blue collar schools that fit the B1G --- Middle America Land Grant Institutions under the Morrill Act..... MSU, PURDUE, MN, WIS, NE, PSU, OSU, & IL. To a lesser extent MD and RUT as they are land grant U's, but so far away....but it is nice to bring in new TV markets there for sure.
Schools that I would like to kick the He## out of the B1G....iu, NW & MICH & Iowa. Never understood why iu.....a music & business school was in the B1G? Why snobby, expensive NW is in the B1G....I also have no idea??
The complete list of Land grants is @.... http://www.higher-ed.org/resources/land_grant_colleges.htm
Of those on the list there are several would be better in the B1G than iu, NW MICH & Iowa.....
1. MiZZou
2. Texas A&M
3. Okie State
4. Iowa State
5. West Virgina
6. Kentucky
7. TN
I think Mizzou fits perfectly and brings in St. Louis & KC TV markets, and Texas A&M although far away could bring in some new TV markets. Iowa State would be fun and fits the mold better than Iowa, and Okie State would be a better alternative than OK. WVU, KY and TN also fit the pattern.
Schools that I would like to kick the He## out of the B1G....iu, NW & MICH & Iowa. Never understood why iu.....a music & business school was in the B1G? Why snobby, expensive NW is in the B1G....I also have no idea??
The complete list of Land grants is @.... http://www.higher-ed.org/resources/land_grant_colleges.htm
Of those on the list there are several would be better in the B1G than iu, NW MICH & Iowa.....
1. MiZZou
2. Texas A&M
3. Okie State
4. Iowa State
5. West Virgina
6. Kentucky
7. TN
I think Mizzou fits perfectly and brings in St. Louis & KC TV markets, and Texas A&M although far away could bring in some new TV markets. Iowa State would be fun and fits the mold better than Iowa, and Okie State would be a better alternative than OK. WVU, KY and TN also fit the pattern.
There is a long-standing - like 50 years - Gentlemen's Agreement in the SEC that the presidents of UGA, Florida, USCe and KY will vote as a block to keep out a second school from any of those states. 75% is needed for new members. The specific intent is to keep out GT, FSU, Clemson or Louisville. A&M has now joined the club to block UT and I flat guarantee that the Horns will not be joining the SEC.
Money is a powerful motivator. UT would bring far more than those other schools you listed.
No, they won't. Texas is already within the footprint of the SEC Network and this goofy Longhorn Network overlaps the SECN. Both networks are owned by ESPN.
The SEC would be better off financially to pick up new TV markets, e.g. VA, NC, WV, OK, KS.
The existence of such an agreement has never been formally acknowledged by the schools, but I can tell you that Gamecock fans here in South Carolina take it for granted that it exists...and I have no doubt it does. However, the pact was only made about 10 years ago when the last round of expansions became a matter of serious discussion. Clay Travis wrote about it a couple of years ago:
http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/t...s-to-block-texas-from-ever-joining-sec-072915
The interesting thing is that the original "Gang of 4" still has ~28% of the votes (4 of 14) and can still exercise a veto without needing A&M's vote. It may be those schools look at what Texas brings to the table and decide they live with the Aggies being upset. I don't personally think that will happen because the addition of two schools would dilute the block of votes to the point (4 of 16) where they no longer exercise an automatic veto and they would need an additional vote going forward. A&M can provide that vote.
It appears you do not understand what is happening at Mizzou. Frosh enrollment has dropped from 6,000 in 2015 to 4,000 in 2017 and Black Lives Matter racists have overtaken the campus. Mizzou closed four dormatories this year due to lack of residents.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_b7417bf6-268e-58c4-b358-ac369c4481fc.html
You are ignoring three issues:
1. The Gentlemen's Agreement does exist and A&M is in it. I know this for a fact. It was a pre-condition for A&M joining the SEC.
2. There is no enhancement in TV revenue if Texas joins the SEC. All of those TV sets within the State of Texas are already captured by the SECN. This "huge revenue increase" with UT joining has no logical justification. If you can explain a logical increase if TV revenue, please do so.
3. UT is a bunch of academic snobs and they would thumb their noses at the SEC.
This is a joke, right? As dumb as your knock on IU is, wanting to kick out Michigan and Northwestern, two of the best universities in America, is completely asinine.
Don't get me wrong... I believe the pact exists. However...
You can't know this for a fact unless you have very close ties to the highest levels of these schools athletic administrations. The schools themselves have never acknowledged that one exists, so I'm not sure how you can state it as fact. You will always see it couched in terms such as, "Sources tell us..." or "it's reported that..." If you have a link showing it confirmed by one of the four schools, I'd love to see it.
it would be nice if marketing and $$$ were not the deciding factors of universities joining a conference. At one time the BIG 10 only included universities of academic excellence. and then we allowed our students to compete against each other is debates and rowing events. and conferences were formed by geological regions like the BIG East and PAC 10. and the Ohio Valley and the MVC. and mid America.
if we add anybody, I want it to be Iowa St. The BIG could become a powerhouse in wrestling. and our football team would have somebody we could beat.
If you want to use desire and history , the choice should be Notre Dame.
if you want to use logic and geographical preference, it would be Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee.
I can't see the BIG 10 taking in OK without also adding OK St. the same would apply to Kansas and K State.
My persona l preference would be UK, Tenn and Missouri. I believe our BIG 10 network market is BIG enough ! Adding OK isn't going to increase it any more than Missouri or Tenn would. A lot of those people in OK don't watch the BIG 10 network anyway !
if we add anybody, I want it to be Iowa St. The BIG could become a powerhouse in wrestling. and our football team would have somebody we could beat.
If you want to use desire and history , the choice should be Notre Dame.
if you want to use logic and geographical preference, it would be Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee.
I can't see the BIG 10 taking in OK without also adding OK St. the same would apply to Kansas and K State.
My persona l preference would be UK, Tenn and Missouri. I believe our BIG 10 network market is BIG enough ! Adding OK isn't going to increase it any more than Missouri or Tenn would. A lot of those people in OK don't watch the BIG 10 network anyway !
Yes, I know of the temporary ignorance that exists there....worse than some schools but pendulum will swing back quicker there than other institutions due to economic pressure.
Google it for yourself. There are dozens of links like this one:
http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/fsu-and-clemson-have-no-shot-at-the-sec-081311
I just can't see OU going anywhere without OSU...Kansas would bring some things to the table athletically and academically but not much in TV sets revenue....ship has sailed on Missouri they are in the SEC. Texas just like ND would bring a lot to the table but ND has made it clear on no and UT would need a travel partner. Look East to find new potential teams such as GT, West Virginia and others.
I moved from Indy to Moore, OK last fall. I am less than 10 miles from OU. Would love it if they joined the B1G!
admittedly, we lost out on Notre Dame and Mizzo!
and anything with OK or Kansas, we'd have to take their sister state colleges OK st and K st.
W Vir and GT are interesting. I believe the BIG 10 could offer them more than what they currently receive.
The BIG 10 Network deal is supposedly the best revenue producing contract in college sports. It's obviously big enough to lure OK. Would it be big enough to lure Kentucky and Tenn away from the SEC ? I believe adding UK and Tenn would improve the ratings even if they didn't increase the market size/coverage.
looking to add to the market size/coverage, Syracuse would bring in a greater market than OK would bring.
or just add the 3 military schools, the 4 railroads and the two utilities. and you'll create a monopoly.
and anything with OK or Kansas, we'd have to take their sister state colleges OK st and K st.
W Vir and GT are interesting. I believe the BIG 10 could offer them more than what they currently receive.
The BIG 10 Network deal is supposedly the best revenue producing contract in college sports. It's obviously big enough to lure OK. Would it be big enough to lure Kentucky and Tenn away from the SEC ? I believe adding UK and Tenn would improve the ratings even if they didn't increase the market size/coverage.
looking to add to the market size/coverage, Syracuse would bring in a greater market than OK would bring.
or just add the 3 military schools, the 4 railroads and the two utilities. and you'll create a monopoly.
Your link states, "Multiple sources have told me that Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina have a Survivor-style pact"
I live down here and read this stuff all the time. That's how I know you can't know it as fact. This is not a confirmation by any of the the schools, but nameless sources.
It is highly likely that A&M has in fact joined together with the other four, but you should present it as such... not as known fact.
As I said above, I was on the faculty at Texas A&M at the time the Aggies left the B12 for the SEC. My source of that information is not internet rumor, rather it is an administrator at A&M who was involved with the negotiatians at that time. Obviously there is not going to be any official announcement by the schools involved that this Gentlemen's Agreement exists.
Bottom line is that UT will not be joining the SEC. Period.
Georgia Tech would be highly desirable from my point of view. It fits the academic profile, and gets us a foothold in the Atlanta market, though admittedly Georgia dominates the area. It would certainly piss off the Bulldogs and the rest of the SEC if the Big10 started playing games on a regular basis in Atlanta. You think Harbaugh's camps upset them? Imagine 4-5 conference games each year being played in the heart of what they consider their turf. The problem is the ACC buyout is somewhere north of $50M.
I'm kinda lukewarm on WVa, but that just my personal feeling. If we're to look at more southern-based schools, I'd prefer Vanderbilt. Like Tech, they fit the academic profile, bring in a large TV market, though one dominated by another in-state school and wouldn't be another football factory.
I would think the chances of Kentucky and Tennessee joining are probably next to nil. Kentucky considers itself a southern state... is quite sensitive about it really... and would be loathe to do anything to change that perception. More importantly, they aren't about to move from the SEC and see their domination in basketball diminished in any way. They're a big fish in a little pond hoops-wise and they like it that way. Having lived in Knoxville for five years while my ex-wife went to grad school there, I believe Vol fans would burn the city down before they left the SEC =)
1. Unwritten agreements are violated all the time. They are essentially worthless and the more people that are included in them, the higher the likelihood they fall apart.
2. I didn't say anything about a "huge revenue increase" so I'm not sure why you're quoting it in a response to my post. What I will say, and it's a phrase I think you should learn too, is that I don't know all the financial ramifications it would have. I do know you're essentially valuing the Texas brand at zero with the way you talk which is wrong. It's exactly why the Big Ten chased Notre Dame for so long. It's not because the Big Ten needs the South Bend television market or because they aren't already on all over the state of Indiana. When a school has such a high profile, there's value beyond their immediate geographic territory. I don't know what that value is in this case but I don't think you do either.
3. Money aside, I agree that they might look at other options due to this factor and when everything was on the verge of collapsing a few years ago it is rumored they were very close to moving to the Pac 12.
I know they don't fit a lot of what the B1G looks for but look at the University of Central Florida. They would bring one heck of a TV market and a travel partner for Georgia Tech! Posted enrollment is around 64,000 but I must admit I don't know a thing about that school academically!
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If you troll over to the Oklahoma forum, possible Big Ten membership is getting a heck of a lot of chatter right now. They act like they're looking to get out of the Big 12.
http://www.scout.com/college/oklahoma/forums/2445-football-board?s=146
http://www.scout.com/college/oklahoma/forums/2445-football-board?s=146
historically the BIG 10 was created and composed of state universities with high academic standards. the University of Chicago was once a part of our conference. I'm not sure I like the philosophy of throwing standards and values out the window and targeting new schools based solely on $$$ and market share. At some point, we need to state values >>>>> $$$.
I wonder why Pitt was once considered highly, but was dropped. With the addition of Penn St, do we no longer need Pitt to secure that state's market coverage ? I also wonder why we are not pursuing Louisville and Cincy ? Not enough $$$ ?
I wonder why Pitt was once considered highly, but was dropped. With the addition of Penn St, do we no longer need Pitt to secure that state's market coverage ? I also wonder why we are not pursuing Louisville and Cincy ? Not enough $$$ ?
Just as I wouldn't mind OU joining the B1G as I moved near their campus last fall, for similarly selfish reasons I wouldn't mind Pitt also joining the B1G (my daughter is a student at Pitt).
So in one paragraph you talk about standards and values and then in the next you advocate for Louisville and Cincy? And previously say one of your top two is WVA? Weird.
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