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OT: Ryan Gosling is gonna play Neil Armstrong...

I like the quote from Nathan B Forrest. He was relatively uneducated soldier, but rose to general by sheer talent. After the Civil War, Forrest went on to found one of our nastiest institutions, the Klu Klux Klan. Anti catholic, anti black, and anti Semitic. That tempers my admiration of the man, but most of us are not without sin.

By the way, almost all the monuments erected on the national battlefields were paid for and built by private citizens or civic groups. Almost none were built by the federal government.
there are a few things I try to remember and no doubt with various degrees of success. The past..which many times is the result of a war or series of wars is told by the winner. I think it is important to remember that. Second, there are 60 thousand various denominations of Christianity and yet all claim to follow the much more limited bible. The reality is that people tend to look at history with the eyes AND understanding of today, rather than that of the time for clearer understanding. Consequently, many false views can be held. I fear that with the net and infomration available that the potential grows even more. I know there are not enough hours in the day for me to learn all I wish. Trying to stay somewhat in tune with technology, computers etc...grasping more history that I missed when younger, understanding what may be going on in "academia"...working and doing the daily tasks that need completed....topped with Boiler things, and it is so hard to be knowledgeable in many areas I should...
 
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https://www.wishtv.com/news/local-n...of-history-lafayette-residents-say/1063766588
Well said. I will say again however that I did in fact get emails from the preservation sites that stated that Gettysburg may be closed (first of July last year) as it was getting discussed for fear of desecration.

Sacred grounds where many "Americans on both sides" were lost in a war that many believe did not have to happen, but that has already been described. If it is more than Gettysburg and the Civil War in general is of interest...visit the others when you are so close...
I love near many civil war sites here in Tennessee. I visit two specific sites almost daily... Stones River and Beech Grove. Can you provide a link that shows people are actively trying to remove statues from civil war sites, as this is the first I am hearing of it.

Little known civil war history about Lafayette. At Greenbush Cemetary at N 9th St & Greenbush Av not far from Harrison St Bridge is a marker dedicated to (38) Confederate prisoners killed in a train accident in 1862. All were captured at Ft Donaldson by Gen Grant and were all volunteers from TN. Their individual headstones with names/regiments are also there and I can confirm all are well maintained.
Marker is next to the fence near northeast corner of cemetary. It is reported to be one of only a handful of historical markers erected to honor Confederate dead north of the Mason/Dixon Line. I cant imagine anyone ever wishing to desecrate or remove this memorial. I visit once in a while as my grandmother is buried in this cemetary.
 
https://www.wishtv.com/news/local-n...of-history-lafayette-residents-say/1063766588



Little known civil war history about Lafayette. At Greenbush Cemetary at N 9th St & Greenbush Av not far from Harrison St Bridge is a marker dedicated to (38) Confederate prisoners killed in a train accident in 1862. All were captured at Ft Donaldson by Gen Grant and were all volunteers from TN. Their individual headstones with names/regiments are also there and I can confirm all are well maintained.
Marker is next to the fence near northeast corner of cemetary. It is reported to be one of only a handful of historical markers erected to honor Confederate dead north of the Mason/Dixon Line. I cant imagine anyone ever wishing to desecrate or remove this memorial. I visit once in a while as my grandmother is buried in this cemetary.
Appreciate learning that history. Going to Manassas in a few days. Damn Kim...just got another book on the civil war from Kim on travel sites today...and I still have Picketts Charge and a few others in front of this... I think she is building a library for retirement... ;)
 
Appreciate learning that history. Going to Manassas in a few days. Damn Kim...just got another book on the civil war from Kim on travel sites today...and I still have Picketts Charge and a few others in front of this... I think she is building a library for retirement... ;)
I used to live/work in that area of VA. If you have some extra time, its worth touring the US Marine Corp History Museum in Quantico. Its about a 15 minute drive from Manassas on Dumphries Rd (VA 234) Its a large modern museum similar in size to Smithsoneum Air/Space. You could spend an entire day looking at everything it offers
 
I used to live/work in that area of VA. If you have some extra time, its worth touring the US Marine Corp History Museum in Quantico. Its about a 15 minute drive from Manassas on Dumphries Rd (VA 234) Its a large modern museum similar in size to Smithsoneum Air/Space. You could spend an entire day looking at everything it offers
thank you...appreciate the info. I'll have to see on this trip/ I'm going to see a daughter and husband that live in Frederick, MD. She used to live in Mclean and I have a cousin in Annadale and have very limited exposure to Virgina. My cousin spent time in Mt Vernon and had to correct their original uniforms..as "the buttons" were incorrect... ;) I would enjoy the Museum if not this trip...down the road. Looks like 38 minutes away and open 9 to 5...will see how things go, but appreciate learning this...
 
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Back to the movie... I think it’s sort of BS on the American flag omission, but I’m going to see it anyway because it looks really good.
 
Back to the movie... I think it’s sort of BS on the American flag omission, but I’m going to see it anyway because it looks really good.
I saw the trailer yesterday and it had a shot at the end which consisted of the lunar lander and the flag right next to it.
 
gos·ling
[ˈɡäzliNG]
NOUN
  1. a young goose.
I thought this might be interesting to know...…….
 
Fox News film critic gave the film 5 out of 5. Said he's watched it 3 times and the flag is shown throughout and there is plenty of patriotism. There is no shot of the planting of the flag but the flag is shown on the moon in one shot.
 
Let me know your thoughts. I’d really like to see it too.
It’s amazing. Best movie I’ve seen in a LOOONG time. You have to see it in the theater.

One thing that really stuck out to me was how “Purdue” Neil Armstrong was. Calm, practical, rational, analytical, plain-spoken and substantive. Which of course is why he was picked to be the “First Man”.

And in case you were wondering: The American flag is shown on the moon several times.
 
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It’s amazing. Best movie I’ve seen in a LOOONG time. You have to see it in the theater.

One thing that really stuck out to me was how “Purdue” Neil Armstrong was. Calm, practical, rational, analytical, plain-spoken and substantive. Which of course is why he was picked to be the “First Man”.

And in case you were wondering: The American flag is shown on the moon several times.
Thanks New Pal. Absolutely going to see it.
 
This is what happend. The original cut lacked the US flag. It was their choice to leave it out because “they” underestimated the fall out of doing so. The film makers were getting the shit kicked out of them before the movie was released. I believe they went back in and added the flag where they could. And they were right to do so.
 
This is what happend. The original cut lacked the US flag. It was their choice to leave it out because “they” underestimated the fall out of doing so. The film makers were getting the shit kicked out of them before the movie was released. I believe they went back in and added the flag where they could. And they were right to do so.
I thought maybe it was to appeal to the international market. Those that were not alive and actually lived it have only read about what someone wrote and that is all they know...and unfortunately many miss the importance to teh USA. I thought I read somewhere it never did very well in its opening week or so, but I could be wrong.
 
This is what happend. The original cut lacked the US flag. It was their choice to leave it out because “they” underestimated the fall out of doing so. The film makers were getting the shit kicked out of them before the movie was released. I believe they went back in and added the flag where they could. And they were right to do so.
Whatever.
 
I thought maybe it was to appeal to the international market. Those that were not alive and actually lived it have only read about what someone wrote and that is all they know...and unfortunately many miss the importance to teh USA. I thought I read somewhere it never did very well in its opening week or so, but I could be wrong.
This is true. It was expected to top "Venom", which the critics do not like. I believe it finished in 4th place opening week.
 
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This is what happend. The original cut lacked the US flag. It was their choice to leave it out because “they” underestimated the fall out of doing so. The film makers were getting the shit kicked out of them before the movie was released. I believe they went back in and added the flag where they could. And they were right to do so.

LOL this is complete BS.

When the "controversy" came up - the people who had actually seen the movie flat out said the US flag is seen in the film numerous times.

Nothing changed. It was manufactured outrage. Admit it and move on.
 
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People invent bullshit just to get pissed off at imaginary opponents all the time. On all sides of every issue. It's disheartening. Political discourse in this country has become so toxic because people care more about "winning" than being honest, giving the people they disagree with the benefit of the doubt, compromising, and working together to build something great.

Manufactured outrage gets eyeballs and votes. We need to diligently apply skepticism and critical thinking skills to the claims we come across, ESPECIALLY stories which conform to our biases. We are all vulnerable to it. Do your research and call out the bullshit when you see it. From both the left and the right.

Liberals and conservatives aren't enemies. We're all Americans with different ideas of how to make things better. This country works best when compromise allows both sides to hammer out the best way forward, not demonize each other.
 
LOL this is complete BS.

When the "controversy" came up - the people who had actually seen the movie flat out said the US flag is seen in the film numerous times.

Nothing changed. It was manufactured outrage. Admit it and move on.
Anyone who misses seeing this movie in the theater is only shortchanging themselves. ESPECIALLY Purdue grads!
 
People invent bullshit just to get pissed off at imaginary opponents all the time. On all sides of every issue. It's disheartening. Political discourse in this country has become so toxic because people care more about "winning" than being honest, giving the people they disagree with the benefit of the doubt, compromising, and working together to build something great.

Manufactured outrage gets eyeballs and votes. We need to diligently apply skepticism and critical thinking skills to the claims we come across, ESPECIALLY stories which conform to our biases. We are all vulnerable to it. Do your research and call out the bullshit when you see it. From both the left and the right.

Liberals and conservatives aren't enemies. We're all Americans with different ideas of how to make things better. This country works best when compromise allows both sides to hammer out the best way forward, not demonize each other.
lot of truth to this, but consider the threads on the MSU/Purdue football game. All are Purdue fans...all saw the same things...all wanted the same result and yet there are many different opinions.

Quite frankly part of the problem is that people really don't have the relevant knowledge in teh appropriate domain and always lean to emotion or assume that their view is correct...just because opinions are free.

FWIW, I haven't seen the political sides so divided as I have the last 10 years as the previous several...and not sure I see a change in the future. Lot of reasons besides what I mentioned above..one is the melting pot is no longer desired and is replaced by teh salad bowl concept...and so full assimulation into the USA culture doesn't take place...herd thought is promoted...education or lack of...so many things, but I'll leave it right here...you stated a lot of truth...
 
lot of truth to this, but consider the threads on the MSU/Purdue football game. All are Purdue fans...all saw the same things...all wanted the same result and yet there are many different opinions.

Quite frankly part of the problem is that people really don't have the relevant knowledge in teh appropriate domain and always lean to emotion or assume that their view is correct...just because opinions are free.

FWIW, I haven't seen the political sides so divided as I have the last 10 years as the previous several...and not sure I see a change in the future. Lot of reasons besides what I mentioned above..one is the melting pot is no longer desired and is replaced by teh salad bowl concept...and so full assimulation into the USA culture doesn't take place...herd thought is promoted...education or lack of...so many things, but I'll leave it right here...you stated a lot of truth...

The difference is those Purdue fans WATCHED the game. People were manufacturing outrage about this movie without even seeing it - nor believing the people who had seen it who said their concerns were not accurate.
 
LOL this is complete BS.

When the "controversy" came up - the people who had actually seen the movie flat out said the US flag is seen in the film numerous times.

Nothing changed. It was manufactured outrage. Admit it and move on.
I will take the high road here and say that it was not right for to make the claim I did without providing evidence. I took someone’s word for it.

Unfortunately it was my brother so I believed him. Most anyone would, but anyway, I will admit without evidence it’s just words.
 
So did they show the iconic "flag planting" scene or not?
I have no idea how old these posters are, but if they were not of age at that time...they just don't know what the real aroma was at that time. It is not their fault as they are the victim of only what a teacher taught at the time...IF taught. We also understand the Miracle on Ice with the Russians.

We can read about the Brown shirts and see the comparisons to ANTIFA and many groups, but none of us posting fully understand the Night of Broken of Glass. Sadly I see less potential for the transmission of knowledge in history as we go forward. Technology drowns us with information...some true and much presented as true and nobody has the time available to discern reality. The population generally becomes less informed and the country depends on an educated voter.

When the dinasours die out, the next generation of dinasours will be X minus 1 in historic knowledge and X+1 of technology. Not my problem... :)
 
The difference is those Purdue fans WATCHED the game. People were manufacturing outrage about this movie without even seeing it - nor believing the people who had seen it who said their concerns were not accurate.
So if I understand you it doesn't matter if people see it or not...there are different opinions for the same event...and that was my point. There doesn't have to be an informed opinion to have an opinion... ;)
 
Sorry to be so late to this game -- I’m still trying to forget Texas Tech with the new season finally upon us -- but it’s been fun to see so many who shoot moons and run in the buffs.

I watched Neil’s first step live as a high schooler, I met him once, and I saw “First Man” in its first weekend of release, all before reading this discussion. And Reese is right as rain that the Moon Landing was viewed at the time as an absolutely American triumph and provided a tremendous uplift in national pride and patriotism at a time when the country was even more divided than now -- by the war, by race riots, by protests -- going far beyond emotions, with lives actually being lost in each realm. Nothing contrived about that.

Man on the moon literally rose above all. Yet, Ryan Gosling and his movie-makers admittedly chose to emphasize it as “a world event” rather than what it was -- the ultimate come-from-behind victory by the United States over the Soviet Union in the space race. The Canadian actor who wasn’t close to being born has no more right to redefine that accomplishment than for another Canadian to say the “Miracle On Ice” was just a great hockey moment. We won, and that flag-planting was fully iconic, like Iwo Jima. Omitting it was a gross error. The flag shows only in a background view during the lunar exit. That’s like spiking the ball after a sudden-death touchdown in the Super Bowl but instead showing only an empty helmet to the side.

And not only did Gosling look less like Armstrong than the man in the moon, but he played him as an emotionless zombie. Despite movie-makers’ usual tendencies to play to emotions over fact, “First Man” dropped all the national acclaim and real fanfare and made it one long joyless ride. Instead of the aircraft carrier greetings or the later ticker-tape parades by a roaring nation, they show Neil entering a desolate room alone. The End. Get real. The real Neil played with my Purdue tie. He actually smiled. He was humble but human, not way out there in La La Land.

Worst, despite receiving university permissions to show Purdue diplomas and name names, Purdue is never mentioned. Characters talk about college, meeting on campus, being engineers, doing plays … they even present two other Boilermaker astronauts and their demise, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee, but the school that gave them all rise, where Neil’s lifetime papers still reside, is ignored.

So, we’ll never erect a statue to Gosling or his killjoy director, but if someone did, I’ll take it and bury it at some other places I’ve been, like Harpers Ferry, Fort Sumter, Bull Run, Antietam, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, Fort Donelson, Chickamauga, Chattanooga, Lookout Mountain, The Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, Fort McAllister, Savannah, Appomattox and Bennett’s Place. The North’s gonna do it again, and I don’t mean Canada.
 
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I used to live/work in that area of VA. If you have some extra time, its worth touring the US Marine Corp History Museum in Quantico. Its about a 15 minute drive from Manassas on Dumphries Rd (VA 234) Its a large modern museum similar in size to Smithsoneum Air/Space. You could spend an entire day looking at everything it offers
couldn't work it in with my time restraints...maybe next time. thanks!!
 
Sorry to be so late to this game -- I’m still trying to forget Texas Tech with the new season finally upon us -- but it’s been fun to see so many who shoot moons and run in the buffs.

I watched Neil’s first step live as a high schooler, I met him once, and I saw “First Man” in its first weekend of release, all before reading this discussion. And Reese is right as rain that the Moon Landing was viewed at the time as an absolutely American triumph and provided a tremendous uplift in national pride and patriotism at a time when the country was even more divided than now -- by the war, by race riots, by protests -- going far beyond emotions, with lives actually being lost in each realm. Nothing contrived about that.

Man on the moon literally rose above all. Yet, Ryan Gosling and his movie-makers admittedly chose to emphasize it as “a world event” rather than what it was -- the ultimate come-from-behind victory by the United States over the Soviet Union in the space race. The Canadian actor who wasn’t close to being born has no more right to redefine that accomplishment than for another Canadian to say the “Miracle On Ice” was just a great hockey moment. We won, and that flag-planting was fully iconic, like Iwo Jima. Omitting it was a gross error. The flag shows only in a background view during the lunar exit. That’s like spiking the ball after a sudden-death touchdown in the Super Bowl but instead showing only an empty helmet to the side.

And not only did Gosling look less like Armstrong than the man in the moon, but he played him as an emotionless zombie. Despite movie-makers’ usual tendencies to play to emotions over fact, “First Man” dropped all the national acclaim and real fanfare and made it one long joyless ride. Instead of the aircraft carrier greetings or the later ticker-tape parades by a roaring nation, they show Neil entering a desolate room alone. The End. Get real. The real Neil played with my Purdue tie. He actually smiled. He was humble but human, not way out there in La La Land.

Worst, despite receiving university permissions to show Purdue diplomas and name names, Purdue is never mentioned. Characters talk about college, meeting on campus, being engineers, doing plays … they even present two other Boilermaker astronauts and their demise, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee, but the school that gave them all rise, where Neil’s lifetime papers still reside, is ignored.

So, we’ll never erect a statue to Gosling or his killjoy director, but if someone did, I’ll take it and bury it at some other places I’ve been, like Harpers Ferry, Fort Sumter, Bull Run, Antietam, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, Fort Donelson, Chickamauga, Chattanooga, Lookout Mountain, The Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, Fort McAllister, Savannah, Appomattox and Bennett’s Place. The North’s gonna do it again, and I don’t mean Canada.
Ah the second raising of the flag on Iwo Jima. The iconic scene which the USA used to raise bond money. The scene where many think only four guys were raising the flag instead of six and in which three died on that island. Ira Hayes, one of the survivors of that island corrected the original picture by traveling 1000 miles to see Harlon Block’s mother and tell her it was Harlon in the picture in which she exclaimed that she knew it was since she had diapered his butt so much. I’ve been to the marine memorial a few times. Yes THAT was another iconic event!

BTW, you listed a few civil war sights I need to see since I have mostly been to the northern campaign area. Few in the white house ever really understand what has happened to history over the years or education in general…actually can expand that to politicians in general. Lynne Cheney was an exception. I was still young during the Cuban crisis, but can remember my father talking about it at the time and some shelters being built. Years ago psy &soc classes might cover the effect on society knowing it can all be over in a few minutes. Appreciate your comments and the personal information you supplied especially.

 
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Ah the second raising of the flag on Iwo Jima. The iconic scene which the USA used to raise bond money. The scene where many think only four guys were raising the flag instead of six and in which three died on that island. Ira Hayes, one of the survivors of that island corrected the original picture by traveling 1000 miles to see Harlon Block’s mother and tell her it was Harlon in the picture in which she exclaimed that she knew it was since she had diapered his butt so much. I’ve been to the marine memorial a few times. Yes THAT was another iconic event!

BTW, you listed a few civil war sights I need to see since I have mostly been to the northern campaign area. Few in the white house ever really understand what has happened to history over the years or education in general…actually can expand that to politicians in general. Lynne Cheney was an exception. I was still young during the Cuban crisis, but can remember my father talking about it at the time and some shelters being built. Years ago psy &soc classes might cover the effect on society knowing it can all be over in a few minutes. Appreciate your comments and the personal information you supplied especially.


Thanks, Reese. History is all about great true stories. As George Costanza once said of Keith Hernandez, “I’d love to be a Civil War buff. What do you have to do to be a buff?” Well, just read GBI.

Aside from Gettysburg and Antietam, I’d most recommend a visit to Appomattox. Gettysburg is awesome, with hundreds of preserved houses and buildings, monuments and beautiful countryside, but the small village at Appomattox Court House is isolated with no vehicles or commercialism, only horse-trail roads. It’s fully restored, well-maintained and like going back in time. I’d read the personal memoirs of Grant, Chamberlain and Gordon before visiting, which made it even better. You’ll want to prance a horse and have it bow in tribute to the soldiers’ salute. Should be a movie about that grand finale. With Wilmer McLean.

Purdue aeronautics would carry an epic, too … from engineer Clyde Turpin, joining the Wright Brothers, modifying their engine and flying their exhibitions, up to the first university airport, the first degree for pilots, “Amelia” and her Electra, “First Spaceman” Iven, “Right Stuff” Gus, “First Man” Neil and “Last Man” Gene all the way to “Sully.” Purdue at least rates its own “Aerial America.” From space to football, we own the airways.
 
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Thanks, Reese. History is all about great true stories. As George Costanza once said of Keith Hernandez, “I’d love to be a Civil War buff. What do you have to do to be a buff?” Well, just read GBI.

Aside from Gettysburg and Antietam, I’d most recommend a visit to Appomattox. Gettysburg is awesome, with hundreds of preserved houses and buildings, monuments and beautiful countryside, but the small village at Appomattox Court House is isolated with no vehicles or commercialism, only horse-trail roads. It’s fully restored, well-maintained and like going back in time. I’d read the personal memoirs of Grant, Chamberlain and Gordon before visiting, which made it even better. You’ll want to prance a horse and have it bow in tribute to the soldiers’ salute. Should be a movie about that grand finale. With Wilmer McLean.

Purdue aeronautics would carry an epic, too … from engineer Clyde Turpin, joining the Wright Brothers, modifying their engine and flying their exhibitions, up to the first university airport, the first degree for pilots, “Amelia” and her Electra, “First Spaceman” Iven, “Right Stuff” Gus, “First Man” Neil and “Last Man” Gene all the way to “Sully.” Purdue at least rates its own “Aerial America.” From space to football, we own the airways.
Appomattox is about 3 1/2 hours from my daughter and so it would have to be on my way or leaving her house to go home. She lives in Frederick, MD and so she is 30/40 minutes from Gettysburg, Antietam and Harpers Ferry and minutes away from Monocasy and an hour from Manassas. Sacred grounds...
 
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