O/T: Trinidad and Tobago 2, USMNT 1
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Wholesale changes need to be made from the ground up. Soccer has become an “elite” sport in US where your family has to have money for a player to get the right coaching, training, and competition.
In most other countries is the “poor” sport where everyone has a fair chance and those who are truly great and love the sport have a shot too. In the US that just isn’t the case. So much talent being left behind because you have to pay to play now. A damn shame
If your unfamiliar with this a quick google search will tell it all. I was an intern for a MLS team and saw it first hand. There’s also a great article about how the MLS has soccer academies where teams don’t recruit or sign talent, they build it themselves. And Mark Cuban wants the AAU to dissolve and the NBA to have a similar system.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/21/16341796/nba-aau-fc-dallas-player-development
Long article but a great read.
Admitted our best athletes will go for the money and play football, baseball and basketball. but I am convinced looking at our dominance in golf, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, track and field and other sports, that the U.S can find enough soccer athletes to dominate most other countries. I can't believe we have not built a foundation for a world class soccer program.
Admittedly, soccer may be the #1 sport in many countries. But that is no excuse for the U.S. to continually lag behind. it's not a matter of firing and replacing the coach. U.S. Soccer needs an overhaul from top down.
Admittedly, soccer may be the #1 sport in many countries. But that is no excuse for the U.S. to continually lag behind. it's not a matter of firing and replacing the coach. U.S. Soccer needs an overhaul from top down.
I grew up poor. The only kids that played soccer were the preppy kids with money and most shouldn't have been on the field for anything other than their money. Probably made me like soccer even less than I already did. When the majority of the country doesn't really care about a sport, why would those parents push their kids into it when they have baseball, football and basketball as sports they played as children.
I'll say one more thing about soccer. The majority of it in the United States is little kids playing it. My guess is most people think all it is is people kicking a ball up and down the field. Easy for kids to feel like they are playing a sport, way easier than teaching a kid to hit a baseball or make a basket. But then you play a "real" sport when you get older if you stay in athletics. Just my opinion, biased sure, but I don't see soccer becoming a priority any time soon. I didn't even know the world cup was going on and I consider myself fairly well informed in sport.
First let me say its sad when the Men's team fails to qualify for the world cup. There were a lot of strange circumstances that could have led to their shortcoming. Own goals in two different games and what has been described as a phantom goal in another did not help.
I think you are selling the skills and athleticism of soccer players a little short. It is a highly skilled sport and that is why the best in the game are some of the highest paid athletes in the world.
There are more kids playing soccer in this country than any other sport, but we are still seeing high drop out rates as kids approach high school. There are a bunch of reasons. Soccer being a big sport here in the US soon? I tend to agree with you, its going to take some time. Because I have been living the soccer life for the last eight years (both of my kids play at the club level) I have seen some signs that we will get there at some point. Look at the woman's team. Arguably the best in the world. I used to think of soccer as a girls sport because I am pretty sure the game was much more popular at the high school level for the girls than it was for the boys 30 and 40 years ago.
Just in the last eight years I have started to see some kids that are great athletes staying in soccer even though they could have played the main stream sports as well. If that trend continues I think we will get there I just don't know how long it will take.
This is true. Soccer has turned into a rich kids game in the US. There are reasons for this but the biggest reason is it does not take much money to play basketball down at the playground. We have a lot of options and that hurts the game of soccer. I travel a lot for work and pretty much everywhere I go outside of the US the kids are in the playground playing pick up games. Soccer that is.
Go to Grand Park on a weekend sometime. TONS of very athletic teenagers playing soccer, and that is only going to increase with the concussion issues in football.
Also - tune into a Premier League game on a Saturday morning. Beautiful game.
I agree with this to a point. If you point me to a poor kid that is truly good or great for their age and I bet I could get them in at a club at no cost. Like I said in another post I am very much aware of the cost to play high level youth soccer in this country. Two years ago my sons team played in a league called RPL (regional premier league) TX, AR, OK, LA, MS, AL and FL were the stated involved. They played eight games. Two of them I had to fly with my son the rest were anywhere between 6 and 10 hours drive for the weekend. It was stupid to say the least.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be so negative on the sport. It should be a more popular sport, given all you need is a ball and an open field, but I just don't see it right now in the US. Good point about concussions. Along those lines, it has to be one of the top sports for being in good shape... you are constantly moving, way more so than something like baseball or even football when half the game you are on the sidelines. So that alone should be a reason to get kids involved given the rise in child obesity and such.
Amen to that. Sick and tired of the media trying to push soccer down our throats for close to 30 years. It will never be the NEXT BIG THING. EVER.
Fire them all
So some people don't like soccer, got it! Billions of people do and its the most watched sport in the world. Got to be something to it I would think.
Really surprised to hear that soccer it's considered a sport for rich people in the US because here (and I suspect in many other countries) it's the opposite, everybody can play it, you just need an open field and some jackets and you can play. Soccer has tons of negative things but one that is positive for sure: it's very democratic and everybody can become a champion if the talent is there, so many example of great players that grew up poor and found success. It's curious to hear it's so different there and soccer is considered a sport like tennis, golf or ski (traditional sports for rich people here).
My two cents on USMNT from an external point of view: you can see some improvements (well, at least before this World Cup campaign) but it's difficult to reach the top level without a real soccer culture (not easy to build one) and without a lot of players competing in the best leagues in the world (not sure about all the american players that came back to MLS).
My two cents on USMNT from an external point of view: you can see some improvements (well, at least before this World Cup campaign) but it's difficult to reach the top level without a real soccer culture (not easy to build one) and without a lot of players competing in the best leagues in the world (not sure about all the american players that came back to MLS).
I find MLS hard to watch but the Premier League, La Liga, and Bundesliga are incredible to watch. Watching MLS is like watching high school basketball vs. B1G for the Euro leagues.
This is my view on soccer and it being a rich or expensive sport here in the US. The main reason has to do with fact soccer is not played by the entire population, therefore, as players and teams get better and more competitive travel comes into play. From what I have seen having the best team (I am talking youth soccer 12-18 years) in your area, state or region is a curse. The only way to play other teams at the same competitive level to to travel. That's where the money comes in.
Same thing happens when you look at high school soccer vs club soccer. Most HS teams just don't have players that play at the club or very competitive level. Most U15 or 16 club teams would destroy the high schools in their area. There is that much of a difference in skill level.
Yeah, I bet that traveling is a huge problem but in the end I think you can kind of relate it to the lack of soccer culture/low number of people playing because that is not a problem for really popular sports like football/basketball/baseball. Am I wrong?
Interesting to know about school vs club soccer. We don't really have school soccer so I don't know how the situation is with these two different reality involved.
Another impression about US soccer. It looks to me like there's a little bit too much of a focus on the athletic/physical side of the game more than on skill/technique. Maybe if Pulisic will become a world class player that will change.
I don't post often, or ever really. But feel my 2 cents may be valuable here.
The number one problem is not the money necessary to play a higher level of competition. Yes, well-off families tend to be the norm on club soccer teams, but if a kid from a less wealthy family has the talent to contribute, a club WILL find a way to put him/her on a team. Admittedly money is a factor, but can be overcome, just like in every other club/AAU/travel sport.
The biggest problem is the constant need for youth soccer coaches to put winning over development. You see this in every American sport really; coaches would rather try to coach up the bigger, faster, more athletic kid than risk having a smaller, more skilled kid get beat physically. But soccer is much different than football and basketball, where even at the NBA/NFL levels athleticism can still win out.
Starting at the youth level and going all the way up to D1, coaches in America go with athleticism over skill. In nearly every other country this is the opposite. Scouts in Europe are able to identify the kids who have natural control over the ball, natural control of their body, and unteachable soccer IQ levels. They let them develop in an academy and worry about the physical nature of the game when they feel they are ready. They are not worried about winning youth tournaments or being competitive in huge regional leagues. In the (unfortunate) circumstance of American travel soccer, no one wants to drive 8 hours for a soccer tournament just to watch their kid's team get smoked. So the pressure is on the coach to do his best to win, without worrying about true development.
It's an institutional issue. At some point, if the US truly wants to compete with Europe and South America in soccer, they need to put development over winning some pointless trophy at age 10. And honestly, I really don't ever see that happening considering our culture. It's obviously not a bad culture to have, because of course we dominate nearly every other sport. But in America soccer will never be like it is in other places of the world, whether that's a bad thing or not.
The number one problem is not the money necessary to play a higher level of competition. Yes, well-off families tend to be the norm on club soccer teams, but if a kid from a less wealthy family has the talent to contribute, a club WILL find a way to put him/her on a team. Admittedly money is a factor, but can be overcome, just like in every other club/AAU/travel sport.
The biggest problem is the constant need for youth soccer coaches to put winning over development. You see this in every American sport really; coaches would rather try to coach up the bigger, faster, more athletic kid than risk having a smaller, more skilled kid get beat physically. But soccer is much different than football and basketball, where even at the NBA/NFL levels athleticism can still win out.
Starting at the youth level and going all the way up to D1, coaches in America go with athleticism over skill. In nearly every other country this is the opposite. Scouts in Europe are able to identify the kids who have natural control over the ball, natural control of their body, and unteachable soccer IQ levels. They let them develop in an academy and worry about the physical nature of the game when they feel they are ready. They are not worried about winning youth tournaments or being competitive in huge regional leagues. In the (unfortunate) circumstance of American travel soccer, no one wants to drive 8 hours for a soccer tournament just to watch their kid's team get smoked. So the pressure is on the coach to do his best to win, without worrying about true development.
It's an institutional issue. At some point, if the US truly wants to compete with Europe and South America in soccer, they need to put development over winning some pointless trophy at age 10. And honestly, I really don't ever see that happening considering our culture. It's obviously not a bad culture to have, because of course we dominate nearly every other sport. But in America soccer will never be like it is in other places of the world, whether that's a bad thing or not.
Don't over-complicate things. This country is the best in the world at several major sports (football, basketball, baseball, golf), and one of the best in a few others (hockey, track & field). That is a TON of athletic talent funneling away from soccer. Name a single country that is a world soccer power whose number 1 sport isn't soccer or even has half the competition for talent as does the US. This isn't rocket science. Soccer is an afterthought in the US. It is a MAC school competing against the Big Ten.
PS- If this means I don't hear about soccer for another 4 years, I'm totally OK with that.
PS- If this means I don't hear about soccer for another 4 years, I'm totally OK with that.
Well said. I will say there are clubs with specific focus on developing skill vs winning. The club my kids play for does just that. From 8-14 there is no effort to win. When they could field one very good team they would form two with equal talent and play both in the top division. There system works because at the U15 level they form only one top team and it does not take long before they are beating teams they had never beat in the past.
I think the biggest reason I believe we have we have success is that years ago the recreational district gave up on trying to run soccer. Not sure if they gave up or the club talked them into it. But ether way the club took over all soccer operations for the district and in return the club has access to the park that housed all of the fields. What this did is give the club control of how the kids were instructed in practice and how they played games. Coaches are still parents but the club chose the parts (think soccer background) My son played for the guy across the street because he has a son the same age. He happened to play D1 at the Naval academy. To this day one of the better coaches he has had.
before I go to long. My point is that in some places it is working. kids are learning the right skills early enough that when they are ready to compete at a higher level it shows. My son now attends a school here in Louisiana that s a soccer power house. The real reason this is the case is because it is a privet school and a bunch of the top players from our local club attend. I don't know how St. Pauls school located in Covington LA with the other top high schools in the country but out of the states that play their season in the winter (CA, TX, LA, MS, AL, FL) Max Preps has had them ranked number 1. Its a huge accomplishment but the skills these kids have compared to other schools is staggering at times.
I HATED soccer during high school but my hatred really came down to lack of education. I regularly tune into watching Premier and International matches now. The crowd enthusiasm and atmosphere abroad rivals our college sports teams. The lack of success is 100% culture related.
There was a time when I thought the popularity of soccer was ready to explode. Sadly, it hasn't happened. I would even say it fizzled.
IMO, kids play football because they love the physicality of it. Good or bad, the best kids won't shy away because of concussions. Great players should be drawn to soccer out of love for the sport, not because there are flaws (concussions) in another sport.
Soccer is hindered by the same thing that is causing a dropoff in baseball players and fans. ItalianBoiler referred to kids playing pickup soccer everywhere. Same thing used to be true of baseball in this country. If you could find a vacant lot you could put together a neighborhood game. If you could find a vacant diamond at a school you were really set up. Then lawyers happened and liability issues closed those venues and with them went informal baseball games. Few of those kids ever played at a high level but they understood and loved the game. Those guys are your aging fans of today and we aren't making any more.
I hate to take this stand. If you hate soccer you just don't understand the game.
It's a great game and that's why it's loved around the world. At any moment the game can be won in a split second. If it's not your thing that's fine. Don't knock it because that's not what you grew up with.
I spent some time living in the U.K. When England was playing in the World Cup and the electricity in the room hooked me. I got interested and started to pay attention to how hard it was to do what they do. If you think it's easy go kick the ball around. Some of the basic things you see during a game are not that easy to do.
I get it. Watching pros do it you come to expect what they are doing is normal. It's not. Tapping a ball that is going out of bounds on a flat out run, turning it in around the defender and sending a perfect cross is just not as easy as some make it it out to be.
I don't feel I am being to forward considering this is an OT post. BTW I still love basketball, Purdue basketball even more.
It's a great game and that's why it's loved around the world. At any moment the game can be won in a split second. If it's not your thing that's fine. Don't knock it because that's not what you grew up with.
I spent some time living in the U.K. When England was playing in the World Cup and the electricity in the room hooked me. I got interested and started to pay attention to how hard it was to do what they do. If you think it's easy go kick the ball around. Some of the basic things you see during a game are not that easy to do.
I get it. Watching pros do it you come to expect what they are doing is normal. It's not. Tapping a ball that is going out of bounds on a flat out run, turning it in around the defender and sending a perfect cross is just not as easy as some make it it out to be.
I don't feel I am being to forward considering this is an OT post. BTW I still love basketball, Purdue basketball even more.
Kids just don't play like they used to. I think baseball will die out because of the lack of interest. I know I was hell bent on my kid playing baseball but the game of soccer runined him. Once he started playing soccer he dint want anything to do with baseball. He told me that the game was to slow.
Yeah but you pushed him into organized baseball. We did it because we could not because somebody pushed us into it. Today there are no places to just have a pickup game. If it's not organized you're not playing.
This. Personally I totally understand how people that are used to watch football, basketball and baseball don't like soccer. I'm able to enjoy them all but soccer is so much different from the most popular american sports, so I get it. I mean, you are right, Wold Cup atmosphere is amazing and all (I bet in England is as electric as it is here) but if you don't like the game that doesn't really matter.
Playing the game is so much fun though
People who never played the game probably don’t appreciate how insanely skilled the very best players in the world are.This. Personally I totally understand how people that are used to watch football, basketball and baseball don't like soccer. I'm able to enjoy them all but soccer is so much different from the most popular american sports, so I get it. I mean, you are right, Wold Cup atmosphere is amazing and all (I bet in England is as electric as it is here) but if you don't like the game that doesn't really matter.
Playing the game is so much fun though
Wow, this thread is starting to feel like if you don't think soccer is the best sport around then you are just dumb and uneducated. Great way to sound elite and pull in the people that might be on the fence about the sport. No wonder it's not all that popular in the states.
Just be grateful they aren't spending every waking moment playing video games.
Why can't I understand and still dislike the sport?
Soccer is slow. They need to allow more subs, like in hockey. Too many times players are walking, or kicking the ball backwards, prodding the defense. It's like watching high school basketball without a shot clock.
I don't like watching games that have maybe a couple scores over the entire game. I don't like how many games end in ties.
I don't like how in Europe, the teams are best known by their sponsor. I hope that never comes to the US.
I dislike all the flopping. Can't watch an international soccer game without someone acting like a pansy.
I dislike the "extra time" thing. Nobody in the stadium besides the refs knows how much actual time is left in the game?
I dislike how the media says it's important to care about soccer. Why?
It's a fallacy to say that "because the rest of the world loves it, must be great!" There's a lot of things that the rest of the world does... I'm glad the US is different.
I hate the "Eurofication" of MLS teams. "Real Salt Lake"?? What does that even mean? "FC Dallas"? Why do they insist on being so much like Europe?
I dislike how suddenly everybody cares about it once every four years. Reeks of a lot of bandwagon fans.
Soccer has a simple problem. They don't get the best athletes. At my high school, the best played basketball. Followed closely by football. Track was run by all, but wasn't the primary sport. Then baseball. Then after a big gap, soccer.
It's OK if the US doesn't ever get into soccer. I like swimming, more than just during the olympics. But I don't try to get everyone else to like it. You can understand swimming and it just not be your thing.
I can understand the fact our best U.S. athletes don't play soccer. They play the money sports. However, we have many other sports that don't pay much either, and don't have the greatest athletes either, but we are still competitive and sometimes dominant.
look at gymnastics, skiing, swimming, volleyball, hockey, cycling, track, tennis and golf. that's nine different sports that do not have our nation's best athletes. yes, some of those sports pay their athletes a lot of money. However, they have thrived without our best athletes in their sport. Each of those sports has found their niche, and also found athletes interested in their sport and cultivated them into becoming dominant in their sport. Why hasn't soccer done the same? I refuse to believe the U.S. can't find and cultivate soccer players the same way they do other sports. I also refuse to believe countries like Trinidad and Tobago have better soccer players than what can be found in the U.S.
U.S. soccer does seem to have that NBA mentality of drafting players based on potential and athleticism verses drafting players with certain skillsets.
I can accept not winning the World Cup. But I can't accept not even making the field. Maybe like the WUG, we need to send our NCAA soccer champion to compete in the World Cup. We can't be any worse.
yes, I know football is more popular than soccer. But not all athletes play football! and just think if LeBron James wanted to play hockey! Wilt played professional volleyball, and was dominant at it. I refuse to believe the world's soccer players are that much better than ours. We have the talent. it's a matter of finding it and putting it together.
look at gymnastics, skiing, swimming, volleyball, hockey, cycling, track, tennis and golf. that's nine different sports that do not have our nation's best athletes. yes, some of those sports pay their athletes a lot of money. However, they have thrived without our best athletes in their sport. Each of those sports has found their niche, and also found athletes interested in their sport and cultivated them into becoming dominant in their sport. Why hasn't soccer done the same? I refuse to believe the U.S. can't find and cultivate soccer players the same way they do other sports. I also refuse to believe countries like Trinidad and Tobago have better soccer players than what can be found in the U.S.
U.S. soccer does seem to have that NBA mentality of drafting players based on potential and athleticism verses drafting players with certain skillsets.
I can accept not winning the World Cup. But I can't accept not even making the field. Maybe like the WUG, we need to send our NCAA soccer champion to compete in the World Cup. We can't be any worse.
yes, I know football is more popular than soccer. But not all athletes play football! and just think if LeBron James wanted to play hockey! Wilt played professional volleyball, and was dominant at it. I refuse to believe the world's soccer players are that much better than ours. We have the talent. it's a matter of finding it and putting it together.
They thrive because other nation's best don't play those sports either. In hockey, US doesn't win because hockey draws the best athletes in Canada, Russia, and the Scandinavian countries. Track draws Jamaica's best athletes. For most of the rest of the world, the best go into soccer. So it's Brazil's first string athletes against maybe our 4th string. No wonder we don't win.
The player's strike in '95 killed baseball for me much the way I'm losing interest with the NFL right now. Have all the free speech you want but don't make others pay for the stage you speak from.
As for soccer I loved playing it as a kid and my son played it until we decided he was old enough for football.
My problem with watching it is a team can live in front of the other team's goal for 90 minutes and lose it on one lucky kick in extra time, or worse on penalty kicks. When my son played they even forbade the kids from keeping score and everyone got a trophy at the end of the season. No thanks.
As for soccer I loved playing it as a kid and my son played it until we decided he was old enough for football.
My problem with watching it is a team can live in front of the other team's goal for 90 minutes and lose it on one lucky kick in extra time, or worse on penalty kicks. When my son played they even forbade the kids from keeping score and everyone got a trophy at the end of the season. No thanks.
my son tried to tell me the same thing. However, I still believe our 4th string is better than most country's first string. We may not be as good as Brazil, but we should at least be in the top 10 and able to qualify for the World Cup.
Athletes are not the problem. The problem is the lack of technical and tactical ability. Watch Germany play. Not exactly a track team.
"I hate the "Eurofication" of MLS teams. "Real Salt Lake"?? What does that even mean? "FC Dallas"? Why do they insist on being so much like Europe?"
While I am a big fan of the game, I definitely agree with njm on this point. Real Madrid is Real Madrid because "Real" in Spanish is Royal and the Spanish King gave them the title of Royal Madrid Football Club in the 1920s. I don't recall any Spanish King governing Utah recently. Similarly, the Football Club of Dallas is the Cowboys.
I also do not like the marriage of hipster and SJW culture with soccer in America. Part of what I think could turn off a casual American fan is being talked down to by a guy with a lumberjack beard in skinny jeans and a scarf explaining to them how sophisticated "football" fans are.
While I am a big fan of the game, I definitely agree with njm on this point. Real Madrid is Real Madrid because "Real" in Spanish is Royal and the Spanish King gave them the title of Royal Madrid Football Club in the 1920s. I don't recall any Spanish King governing Utah recently. Similarly, the Football Club of Dallas is the Cowboys.
I also do not like the marriage of hipster and SJW culture with soccer in America. Part of what I think could turn off a casual American fan is being talked down to by a guy with a lumberjack beard in skinny jeans and a scarf explaining to them how sophisticated "football" fans are.
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