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O/T: Ben Simmons admits he didn't go to class at LSU (link)

This is one of the reasons I didn't/don't like the "one-and-done" flexibility. Simmons isn't the first, and he won't be the last......but it sure makes a mockery out of the term "student-athlete." Even though, I don't think hardly any players would be ready for the NBA immediately after HS, I would rather have someone like Simmons (who had little desire (apparently) for scholastic life at LSU) go early, than make a charade of his short-lived collegiate academic career.

I know there are plenty of differences between the NFL and NBA for how ready prospective players are for their respective leagues, etc., but I do think the NFL rule (aren't eligible until three years after HS and must have used up eligibility before the start of the next season) would be better for the NBA. I also know "that ship has sailed," "the genie is out of the bottle," "the cork has been popped......yada.....yada.....yada"

and another thing............get off my lawn!

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That's not too surprising of a story, but it still aggravates me. It would be interesting to see the class load and grades of all the 1 year college players from any given year. I would be willing to bet they aren't all treated like he was at LSU. I could be wrong though and that's why I would like to see how different schools handle 1 and dones.

I'm encouraged by what Do Dah Day said above. I like the fact that players are held accountable for their academics. Decades ago I did tutoring for the football team. I was instructed to fill out a report on any player that wasn't prepared for our session. I can only speak for my experience but at that time the players I worked with were prepared and attended classes.

Fast forward 30 years and it would be interesting to see how much that has changed and would the same standards be applied to a 5* that was only staying 1 year.
 
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Dryfly88 said:
That's not too surprising of a story, but it still aggravates me. It would be interesting to see the class load and grades of all the 1 year college players from any given year. I would be willing to bet they aren't all treated like he was at LSU. I could be wrong though and that's why I would like to see how different schools handle 1 and dones.

I'm encouraged by what Do Dah Day said above. I like the fact that players are held accountable for their academics. Decades ago I did tutoring for the football team. I was instructed to fill out a report on any player that wasn't prepared for our session. I can only speak for my experience but at that time the players I worked with were prepared and attended classes.

Fast forward 30 years and it would be interesting to see how much that has changed and would the same standards be applied to a 5* that was only staying 1 year.
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Todd Foster has great integrity. Painter prioritizes academic accountability - as well as other accountability. Unlimited resources are available within the NCAA rules. Parents and guardians are made aware of the academic responsibilities of Purdue student athletes. There are players here because of this. How a true 5-star Pro-Ready student would be handled is unknown. I do not see Foster or Painter allowing a team member to be treated differently from everyone else. Please note several games in the past in which pretty good players have sat out. Take care of business does have a meaning at PU.
 
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Do Dah Day said:
Todd Foster has great integrity. Painter prioritizes academic accountability - as well as other accountability. Unlimited resources are available within the NCAA rules. Parents and guardians are made aware of the academic responsibilities of Purdue student athletes. There are players here because of this. How a true 5-star Pro-Ready student would be handled is unknown. I do not see Foster or Painter allowing a team member to be treated differently from everyone else. Please note several games in the past in which pretty good players have sat out. Take care of business does have a meaning at PU.
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Even if this had the effect of "chasing" off some recruits (and I'm not stating or implying that it has or does), I appreciate that CMP and the athletic staff take this seriously. It's the perception I had; good to hear from those closer to reaffirm it.
 
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When you look at the big picture, the college education that scholarship athletes receives is a bargain. He gets it in exchange for playing on the university team. It is too bad when the athlete and the school allow it to be a meaningless fake of an education. This cheats the kids, and it cheats on the intention of the NCAA student athlete idea.

These athletes have a once in a lifetime chance for a free education, and schools like LSU cheat them. Don't talk about the professional return, because only a fraction of college athletes are able to get that advantage. Looking at it this way, why would any kid consider going to an OSU, LSU or UNC type college and get cheated?
 
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Purdue Grad in Texas said:
Even if this had the effect of "chasing" off some recruits (and I'm not stating or implying that it has or does), I appreciate that CMP and the athletic staff take this seriously. It's the perception I had; good to hear from those closer to reaffirm it.
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I really try to bite my tongue when Painter is attacked. I have watched him develop boys struggling with life into men who I will always be proud to say are Purdue graduates. Great athletes often live lives of entitlement. There is a dramatic shift in many athletes (not specifically basketball) after the fall of their sophomore year. This is when many realize they aren't going pro. They see how deep the holes they have dug are. Foster and Painter do their very best to make sure the basketball holes are not too deep.
 
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mathboy said:
When you look at the big picture, the college education that scholarship athletes receives is a bargain. He gets it in exchange for playing on the university team. It is too bad when the athlete and the school allow it to be a meaningless fake of an education. This cheats the kids, and it cheats on the intention of the NCAA student athlete idea.

These athletes have a once in a lifetime chance for a free education, and schools like LSU cheat them. Don't talk about the professional return, because only a fraction of college athletes are able to get that advantage. Looking at it this way, why would any kid consider going to an OSU, LSU or UNC type college and get cheated?
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Because they have never seen ANY need to be smart .... Nearly every one has said the words "I wish someone had made me study in HS." There is an hour of conversation here, but you get the picture. It isn't even in their realm of thought that getting a degree is important for their future. Most don't have a clue what getting a degree even means from the perspective of work or of future benefit. The ones who do are obvious ... I don't mean to lump them all together. The great ones tend to be lumpable. Unfortunately.
 
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mathboy said:
When you look at the big picture, the college education that scholarship athletes receives is a bargain. He gets it in exchange for playing on the university team. It is too bad when the athlete and the school allow it to be a meaningless fake of an education. This cheats the kids, and it cheats on the intention of the NCAA student athlete idea.

These athletes have a once in a lifetime chance for a free education, and schools like LSU cheat them. Don't talk about the professional return, because only a fraction of college athletes are able to get that advantage. Looking at it this way, why would any kid consider going to an OSU, LSU or UNC type college and get cheated?
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If I had a son that was D-1 material but had minimal-to-no professional prospects I'd probably try to sell him on using basketball to get into an Ivy League school. I'm not even sure if they have scholarships but I think you can get into an Ivy League school a little bit easier as a basketball player than a regular student.
 
TC4THREE said:
If I had a son that was D-1 material but had minimal-to-no professional prospects I'd probably try to sell him on using basketball to get into an Ivy League school. I'm not even sure if they have scholarships but I think you can get into an Ivy League school a little bit easier as a basketball player than a regular student.
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Or PU Av-Tech, or Northwestern, or Stanford (and many others), ... and yes, all D1 schools have at least 1/2 scholarships, moving to full when you're a top 7 player (more or less). If Ivy League only has Fin_Aid, I am surprised, but not an expert.
 
Not sure what's been said, don't have time to read every valid point above but my bottom line is this...if you go to school for one year, you only go to class for one semester....no one cares what your grades were second semester...or what classes you took while you were there...make it a minimum of two years or you're not eligible for a scholarship...and if you chose the college route, regardless of what happens, you're not eligible for the NBA draft for two years...quit letting the NBA ruin the college game and experience...2 cents.
 
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Who cares....
Some 'student-athletes' have no interest in being a student at all. And let's be honest, coaches aren't fired for not graduating athletes, they're fired for not winning.
 
bonefish1 said:
Who cares....
Some 'student-athletes' have no interest in being a student at all. And let's be honest, coaches aren't fired for not graduating athletes, they're fired for not winning.
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I care.... At least to the extent I would be interested in seeing how different schools handle players like this.

To the coaches comment: Not all schools judge their coaches the same. I promise you Kentucky has a different criteria for judging their basketball coach vs Northwestern. Are wins important, absolutely. But they are not the only criteria schools use for keeping or firing coaches.

Lastly, I think the current rules for requiring a kid to be 1 year out of high school before declaring is hurting college basketball. If nothing else it's an interesting discussion/debate to have and it's a college basketball message board.....
 
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bonefish1 said:
Who cares....
Some 'student-athletes' have no interest in being a student at all. And let's be honest, coaches aren't fired for not graduating athletes, they're fired for not winning.
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That's the point......then they shouldn't be students......don't "force" them into the charade of playing the part of a student (and quite poorly in some cases like Mr. Simmons) and most of us know that $$$$$$$ is king, and winning absolves almost all wounds.

I'd love to see Purdue do well in athletic competition, and they can, but first and foremost, I care that it's a well-respected institution of higher learning that places academics in its proper perspective and with the right priority......and for ALL students.

You can do both......and excel at both......but not at the expense of either. However, academics should always be the highest priority, IMO.

So......get off my lawn, Lenny!

TGIF
 
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bonefish1 said:
Who cares....
Some 'student-athletes' have no interest in being a student at all. And let's be honest, coaches aren't fired for not graduating athletes, they're fired for not winning.
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This makes it appear 1. that a coach can't do both (graduate and win), 2. that coaches have not been fired for reasons pertaining to academics/graduation, 3. that there are not great players who do choose a coach/school for academic reasons. I will give you that your first word was "Some," I don't want to get into a debate as it is not worth it. But Painter puts a lot of emphasis on winning while still putting a lot of effort into developing his players into people who stand a good chance at future success in life. If that doesn't play into whether he should be fired or not ... well .. in my opinion it should. This board certainly spends a lot of time pointing out MSU grads in their future unsuccessful lives.
 
If he just would have gone to IU he could have gotten a degree in that one year (tic).

In all seriousness, I wish the NCAA would get rid of the 1 year rule. Or modify it so that you have to play at least 3 years if you decide to go to school, and if you leave early you have to wait that 3 year period to enter the draft. That way a player has time to get a degree (three years is tough but doable) and has to think long and hard if he should go to the NBA right out of high school or do the college thing.
 
punaj said:
If he just would have gone to IU he could have gotten a degree in that one year (tic).

In all seriousness, I wish the NCAA would get rid of the 1 year rule. Or modify it so that you have to play at least 3 years if you decide to go to school, and if you leave early you have to wait that 3 year period to enter the draft. That way a player has time to get a degree (three years is tough but doable) and has to think long and hard if he should go to the NBA right out of high school or do the college thing.
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I don't think the NCAA has any control over it. I believe it's all on when the NBA allows them to be drafted.
 
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More surprising is that people think the projected top draft pick is going to classes. College classes are hard and a kid in such circumstances has probably let the academic success ship sail years before setting foot on college campus.

Take Derrick Rose as another example, decided to cheat the SAT system to get to college; is there a record of his attendance at memphis? He was declared inelegible after this was discovered. Was heavily recruited to the big ten by illinois and indiana.

I can't say I necessarily have a problem with it for 1 yr athletes though. As a student (student-athlete) it is their decision to go to class or not.

Plenty of college students aren't ready for their new responsibilities and want to party a semester or two away and skip classes and of course their grades go down the drain. Administrations tend give a semester which puts them on probation and then another chance to prove themselves, but still totally up to the student to correct their problems.

In other words it let's them effectively be a student lile any other student, +guaranteed scholarship, sports and benefits. Maybe it's a loophole that should be closed, but it seems unlikely to be meaningfully enforced (basket weaving 101).
 
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TC4THREE said:
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/10/20/13347848/ben-simmons-class-attendance-lsu-one-and-done-nba

Don't we hire people to check in and report back to the coaches if a player isn't in their class?
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Yes and No - We do hire people to check on attendance. However, there is no rule attendance should be taken. When I taught at Purdue I did have students come in to make sure athletes attend class. My answer was "I do not take attendance." Education is a choice. I would rather have someone not show up than be there sleeping or playing on their phone.
 
TC4THREE said:
I don't think the NCAA has any control over it. I believe it's all on when the NBA allows them to be drafted.
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It is on the NBA as TC points out. The players union won't ever give that back....and from a revenue and bargaining position, I wouldn't expect them to. I understand how this played out; I just don't like it. The one year requirement was a compromise; I would have rather it been at least two, and I think the NBA owners and the NCAA would have been wise to push for that. They probably could have gotten it through the union with the leverage the owners had last time. But hey, when the NCAA is essentially gonna let you use them for a "discount" farm system.....why not?

Like em or not, the owners are (for the most part) savvy business people.

Someone save me from this cynical response loop to this thread.......I can't help myself.
 
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The only real solution I can think of is eliminate the 1 and done rule and create a better NBA minor league system. Make it so it does not behoove the elite players to ever step foot on a college campus unless they want the education. Anything else is a duplicitous house of cards.
 
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FirstDownB said:
The only real solution I can think of is eliminate the 1 and done rule and create a better NBA minor league system. Make it so it does not behoove the elite players to ever step foot on a college campus unless they want the education. Anything else is a duplicitous house of cards.
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Here is what you won't hear from most of the people that cry about how these players are so poorly treated by the NCAA. They have it pretty damn good.

Benefits (aside from free tuition) of playing for a major college basketball team:

- Room and board
- Built-in fan base (far more fans than CBA or NBA D League)
- Exposure (again far superior to alternative minor league basketball)
- World class facilities
- Best coaching
- Travel all over the country/world

There are probably others I'm not even thinking of at the moment.

Now let's examine any type of minor league structure. If you were to move all of Purdue's players to a team in Fargo, North Dakota to play against other minor league teams, does anyone care? Does anyone watch it? Do they make any money? I think the answer to all of that, based on pretty much every minor league basketball system that has ever existed, is no. This same group of players representing a college/university makes a ton of money in the college system that is in place because people care about these players when they represent brands that we are loyal to or even brands that we dislike.

So since the money isn't going to be flowing in (no significant fan base and no tv revenue) to any minor league system, how much can you really afford to pay the players? The answer is very little. I did a quick Google search on NBA D-league salaries which likely far exceeds the revenues they draw. There appears to be 3 tiers with the top tier being 25k/year. The next tier is 19k and the lowest tier is 13k. It sounds like they do get some sort of housing covered for free and a small per diem as well. It appears that most of these teams are located in very minor cities as well so the matchups are something like Fort Wayne vs Canton or Grand Rapids vs Sioux Falls.

Now compare this minor league situation to the college scenario. Which would you rather be in? Playing in front of crowds of 10k a night or 10k a season? Playing your postseason in the NCAA tournament with the country watching or maybe your playoff series gets covered by the Sioux Falls 11 PM news if you're lucky? Incredible facilities. At some colleges, you stay in dorms where the accommodations reflect that of a luxury hotel. You are a locaI celebrity on your campus and if you're good you're most likely recognized by fans all over the country. I completely see why most players end up in college even though they have no interest in the free education portion of it. I really don't see how a minor league could even compete.

This is also why I have zero sympathy for the Nigel Haye's of the world crying about not getting paid a salary. Even without the free education, they are treated incredibly well and if they choose to take advantage of that education their degree can be worth millions in future benefit on top of that. They absolutely do not need to get a salary because as much as they don't like to hear it, they are not the show. Nigel Hayes at Wisconsin is a star. Nigel Hayes in the D League in Sioux Falls is someone that you or I wouldn't even know. People watch college basketball because they are loyal to the brands. I loved watching Robbie Hummel play for Purdue but if he had gone somewhere else instead, I'd still have been a Purdue fan and cheered for whoever was here. Conversely, had he gone to a brand I didn't have any interest in, I probably wouldn't have followed his career at all.

Sorry for all of this. My rant is over for now.
 
Mcluck said:
Yes and No - We do hire people to check on attendance. However, there is no rule attendance should be taken. When I taught at Purdue I did have students come in to make sure athletes attend class. My answer was "I do not take attendance." Education is a choice. I would rather have someone not show up than be there sleeping or playing on their phone.
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If attendance checkers are asking the instructor if an athlete is attending, then they are not doing their job. Their job is clearly defined as SEEING the athlete in his seat in class. They are to sit in the same seat so they are easily found. The attendance checkers are asked to vary the times they look into the classroom. How well each checker does their job or if they are bribable is always at question. Since this is a basketball board and there are only about 8 athletes who need to be checked, if that, this is pretty mute. Other sports are a bit more deserving.
 
Do Dah Day said:
If attendance checkers are asking the instructor if an athlete is attending, then they are not doing their job. Their job is clearly defined as SEEING the athlete in his seat in class. They are to sit in the same seat so they are easily found. The attendance checkers are asked to vary the times they look into the classroom. How well each checker does their job or if they are bribable is always at question. Since this is a basketball board and there are only about 8 athletes who need to be checked, if that, this is pretty mute. Other sports are a bit more deserving.
Click to expand...
Moot not mute.
 
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