Nojel in the transfer portal

[*4purdue*]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The same can be said about players whose self image is far different than reality especially if a dominant voice is whispering bad advice. You can lead a poor shooter to a coach but you can't make him listen if he doesn't want to.

Come on... this is power 5 college basketball. If the kid doesn’t listen to the coaching staff, you put his a$& on the bench. Anyone can see watching him shoot a free throw that he has poor form. I’m not even talking about his jumper. If that goes on for 3 years, then yes, you can most certainly blame the coaching staff. We have an alum. that was one of the best shooters and teachers of shooting all time. If nothing else, have him work with him. If the kid is listening to mom or someone else, then he should have been gone after year 1, not year 3 and after he started for 62 games.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

No, but he can score so doesn't bog down the offensive end, so the point swing might be better than Nojel. That was always the biggest issue with Nojel, yeah, he could pretty much shut down the teams top player, but that player was still going to out score Nojel, plus Nojel would have a negative effect on everyone else's offense because you didn't have to guard him.

If you needed a stop, yes, you wanted Nojel in the game, but rest of the game, his contribution is very much debatable because of his often negative effect on the offensive end.

I agree he will lack the physicality that Nojel brought but Isaiah is always a very smart kid with high BBall IQ. He will learn how to force players into bad position etc. I see him like a Dakota - a kid who just knew his opponent inside and out.

 

[purduepat1969]

Sounds like the NBA feedback probably was...not good.

Shocking...

 

[Level 42]

, you can most certainly blame the coaching staff.

Well you can, but you're the only one. Truth is a player can't be forced to do anything and clearly the path forward was not what NE wanted so in reality, Painter is doing exactly what you are complaining he didn't do.

But yes, let's sit the best defender in the B1G or kick him off the team after the first season. That makes complete sense.

Look I am just as ticked at this as anyone else, but there is no reason to make a reach like you are and finding a way to blame the coaching staff. Your angst is 100% in the wrong direction.

 

[SKYDOG]

I don't know about we but I loved Kramer from day one.

Kramer was my favorite Purdue player to this day. When Eastern wore that Eastern Michigan tee shirt to the press conference after the game, I was done with him. That was no mistake on his part. That was intentional and showed no loyalty or respect to the university.

 

[PurduePete98]

Well you can, but you're the only one. Truth is a player can't be forced to do anything and clearly the path forward was not what NE wanted so in reality, Painter is doing exactly what you are complaining he didn't do.

But yes, let's sit the best defender in the B1G or kick him off the team after the first season. That makes complete sense.

Look I am just as ticked at this as anyone else, but there is no reason to make a reach like you are and finding a way to blame the coaching staff. Your angst is 100% in the wrong direction.

Just to be clear, you are saying you don’t think Painter has anything to do with how his players develop, correct? I don’t necessarily disagree, as I believe getting better from an individual perspective is all done outside of team practice.

 

[Purdue85]

Come on... this is power 5 college basketball. If the kid doesn’t listen to the coaching staff, you put his a$& on the bench. Anyone can see watching him shoot a free throw that he has poor form. I’m not even talking about his jumper. If that goes on for 3 years, then yes, you can most certainly blame the coaching staff. We have an alum. that was one of the best shooters and teachers of shooting all time. If nothing else, have him work with him. If the kid is listening to mom or someone else, then he should have been gone after year 1, not year 3 and after he started for 62 games.

I don't know what it means to "blame the coaching staff", but it was mentioned during previous seasons how much he was working on his shot during the season. Especially his free throws.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Come on... this is power 5 college basketball. If the kid doesn’t listen to the coaching staff, you put his a$& on the bench. Anyone can see watching him shoot a free throw that he has poor form. I’m not even talking about his jumper. If that goes on for 3 years, then yes, you can most certainly blame the coaching staff. We have an alum. that was one of the best shooters and teachers of shooting all time. If nothing else, have him work with him. If the kid is listening to mom or someone else, then he should have been gone after year 1, not year 3 and after he started for 62 games.

Seriously? He was the best perimeter defender I’ve ever seen at Purdue. Obviously CMP felt he was better than the alternative. And he did start on an Elite eight team.

His problem isn’t mechanics...

 

[IUhaterade]

https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...lers-eric-hunter-trevion-williams/5182043002/

 

[purduepat1969]

I don't know what it means to "blame the coaching staff", but it was mentioned during previous seasons how much he was working on his shot during the season. Especially his free throws.

I don't blame Painter for this particular case. Clearly there were some issues on Eastern's part. And I don't know this, but based on how "involved" his mother was, my guess is there was some bad advice and guidance going on there. He's clearly a good kid off the court. And I wish him the best wherever he goes.

 

[purduepat1969]

https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...lers-eric-hunter-trevion-williams/5182043002/

Best article I've seen that describes the situation...

 

[purduepat1969]

You make a great point about the mental health issue exposed by his mom. I was surprised and concerned that she even brought it up. I didn’t address it in response because I thought it inappropriate at best. He also deflected many things he should have taken personal responsibility for.

Add to those issues the fact that he was getting pulled at end of game situations and replaced by a freshman who could shoot free throws, I can understand his disenchantment.

I still think she expected Nojel to be able to bully his way to the basket each time just like he did in high school playing against 5’7” slow high school players. that is what he and she remembered about his early days, and expected to do the same in the BIG. It ain’t going to happen unless he goes down to a division 3 school, and maybe not even then.

Looks like you're gonna have to tell a lot of posters to "shut the f-ck up", including yourself.

Just giving it back to you a little bit. Couldn't resist.

 

[Purdue0034]

Seriously? He was the best perimeter defender I’ve ever seen at Purdue. Obviously CMP felt he was better than the alternative. And he did start on an Elite eight team.

His problem isn’t mechanics...

His mechanics aren't good most of the time. There was that time when he hit 18 or 19 free throws in a row as a sophomore, but then it was like he forgot what he learned and his free throw shooting went back to closer to 50%. I do think he had a mental block when shooting in games that messed with his confidence. I had sort of forgot about the Eastern Michigan t-shirt fiasco. I was pissed about that at the time and now that he is in fact transferring I find it even more disrespectful that he did that.

 

[Level 42]

Best article I've seen that describes the situation...

Chris Kramer's tweet sums this whole thing up nicely.

But yes, that article is excellent and puts it in to perspective by a large margin.

 

[purduepat1969]

The other thing that p!sses me off about this is the timing. it's almost like he waited until it was too late for Purdue to go after other high ranking transfers.

 

[Level 42]

The other thing that p!sses me off about this is the timing. it's almost like he waited until it was too late for Purdue to go after other high ranking transfers.

I hadn't even thought of that. I have this feeling that he knew he was transferring long before the season ended and the whole Western Michigan shirt thing just solidified it. If he doesn't end up there, I'll be shocked.

He's afraid to fight for his spot which he clearly was going to have to do. And if that is the case, we are better off for it. We don't need ronnie johnson part 2 and this isn't that far off.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I hate it whenever someone chooses to leave the team because there's always a tinge of failure. In this case I'm starting to think this may be a case of addition by subtraction.

 

[Level 42]

I hate it whenever someone chooses to leave the team because there's always a tinge of failure. In this case I'm starting to think this may be a case of addition by subtraction.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but the evidence here recently and over the course of the year adds some weight to your statement here.

 

[TC4THREE]

Come on... this is power 5 college basketball. If the kid doesn’t listen to the coaching staff, you put his a$& on the bench. Anyone can see watching him shoot a free throw that he has poor form. I’m not even talking about his jumper. If that goes on for 3 years, then yes, you can most certainly blame the coaching staff. We have an alum. that was one of the best shooters and teachers of shooting all time. If nothing else, have him work with him. If the kid is listening to mom or someone else, then he should have been gone after year 1, not year 3 and after he started for 62 games.

No offense but I think I'll go with CMP's way of doing things over yours.

 

[TX4GB]

The other thing that p!sses me off about this is the timing. it's almost like he waited until it was too late for Purdue to go after other high ranking transfers.

Transfers would have been tough to get with the freshmen coming in. It was bad timing. He should have said it when he declared for the NBA draft a couple weeks ago. Now the newcomers have a chance for major minutes if they work hard and grow into their roles. Feet to the fire next year.

 

[IUhaterade]

His mechanics aren't good most of the time. There was that time when he hit 18 or 19 free throws in a row as a sophomore, but then it was like he forgot what he learned and his free throw shooting went back to closer to 50%. I do think he had a mental block when shooting in games that messed with his confidence. I had sort of forgot about the Eastern Michigan t-shirt fiasco. I was pissed about that at the time and now that he is in fact transferring I find it even more disrespectful that he did that.

I thought at the time it was obvious that he was on his way out. He sure had a lot of people on here come to his defense tho

 

[JohnHoosierr]

The other thing that p!sses me off about this is the timing. it's almost like he waited until it was too late for Purdue to go after other high ranking transfers.

I honestly think he hadn't made up his mind yet. Him and his mom seem to be all over the place, and i don't think they even know for sure what their plan is next year. Im still not even convinced he plays for another college either. I have a feeling they might not be too happy with his options when they find out he isn't in as high demand as what they believe he is. Would not be surprised if he tries going over seas or g league.

 

[Boilerup60]

This is just an example why no one should have ever compared Nojel to Kramer.


4, When Kramer shot a basketball he looked like a D1 guard. When Nojel shot a basketball it looked like a HS wrestler shooting.
.

As an old high school wrestler..... I think I am offended!!!

 

[mathboy]

Looks like you're gonna have to tell a lot of posters to "shut the f-ck up", including yourself.

Just giving it back to you a little bit. Couldn't resist.

I probably deserve it! No problem.

Turns out I was defending someone who didn’t deserve my efforts.

 

[JRowdy20]

As an old high school wrestler..... I think I am offended!!!

Some of my best friends in HS and College were wrestlers. But man were they absolutely horrible with a basketball in their hands. LOL. And I’ll tell u I was smart enough to never get on the mat with them. LOL

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Some of my best friends in HS and College were wrestlers. But man were they absolutely horrible with a basketball in their hands. LOL. And I’ll tell u I was smart enough to never get on the mat with them. LOL

Good luck trying to post those little guys up though!

 

[SIBoiler2]

I thought at the time it was obvious that he was on his way out. He sure had a lot of people on here come to his defense tho

It's natural to defend what is ours until it isn't.

 

[IUhaterade]

It's natural to defend what is ours until it isn't.

imo he wasn’t ours anymore the moment he wore another schools gear to a press conference. Imagine a FedEx driver wearing a UPS jacket while on his route. Instant termination

 

[Chi-Boiler]

I thought then and I think now that people are making too much of the Western Michigan thing. If a fan favorite had worn a shirt or a hat of another school where his girlfriend or brother went to school, it wouldn't be looked at in the same vein. I'm sure we would all be more understanding. But Nojel has always been different, both for his overall talent level (coming in as a 4*) and shooting in-abilities, and because of his mom's presence here.

I wish Nojel well wherever he ends up, Western Michigan or wherever. I won't miss the incessant polarizing opinions of him on this board. I won't miss his mom at all. Based on her posts here, I think she was in his ear way too much, maybe even more than his coaches were. We will probably never know, but I wonder how relieved Painter is from that part of things alone. Have we heard from Painter yet regarding the transfer? We had immediate quotes when Haarms left. I realize that his mom just passed away.

 

[DAG10]

How is this not a good model for Purdue? If Ivey, Morton, Newman, Gillis, and Edey (if he can’t redshirt) all play 4 years they have a legit chance at being one of Purdue’s best classes ever. Especially when you consider they are adding Furst and best case scenario 2 years of Ingram. I think that would be Purdue’s best chance at a championship. At this point, I would gladly take a championship at the cost of 2-3 transitional/bad years.

The problem is, if they put all the eggs in that basket and it doesn’t work. That would be no fun, but I am going to be optimistic here.

How is this not a good model for Purdue? If Ivey, Morton, Newman, Gillis, and Edey (if he can’t redshirt) all play 4 years they have a legit chance at being one of Purdue’s best classes ever. Especially when you consider they are adding Furst and best case scenario 2 years of Ingram. I think that would be Purdue’s best chance at a championship. At this point, I would gladly take a championship at the cost of 2-3 transitional/bad years.

The problem is, if they put all the eggs in that basket and it doesn’t work. That would be no fun, but I am going to be optimistic here.

Which is in short my point...at some point when you continuously put all of the eggs in one basket, it is likely not going to work...it is too much pressure to continuously operate with that model and have it be successful every time...and it has happened three times now for Painter/Purdue...to his and their credit, they have made it work twice and are poised to do so a third time, but, I would much rather have more balanced classes with contributors in multiple classes opposed to the "all eggs in one basket" approach multiple times as has been the case.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

In

It's natural to defend what is ours until it isn't.

Unless you’re the Haze...

 

[New Pal Boiler]

His mechanics aren't good most of the time. There was that time when he hit 18 or 19 free throws in a row as a sophomore, but then it was like he forgot what he learned and his free throw shooting went back to closer to 50%. I do think he had a mental block when shooting in games that messed with his confidence. I had sort of forgot about the Eastern Michigan t-shirt fiasco. I was pissed about that at the time and now that he is in fact transferring I find it even more disrespectful that he did that.

Disagree. His shot looked better in the clips from last summer. But then when the popcorn started poppin, he got the yips again. Change of scenery might be the best thing for him. And us.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

In
Unless you’re the Haze...

I would just say football in general. Basketball criticism on the other hand, gets taken way too personal here.

 

[SIBoiler2]

With the constant Mama Drama I'm not overly surprised by the decision. I remember a couple of times late in the season where Painter took him out and clearly was having a teaching moment before Nojel sat down. He nodded but did not make eye contact. I've seen the same thing when my son's as teens "listened without listening" in the same manner. I think he was lost before the season ended.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I'm sad about it. He's a good kid and a great teammate. He never embarrassed Purdue and he played hard for 3 years.

It makes me sad because he's a Boiler. He's part of our team. The fact that he felt he had to leave to find something he wasn't getting here is disheartening.

I started to type "I'm sorry." ... but I'm not. He did not play hard for 3 years. He had excuse after excuse after excuse. At least his mom had excuses. Maybe he didn't. But listen to the interview. You'll get some deep insight. When there are at least four defined excuses for his poor play. Maybe playing hard was not one of them. On the other hand, we've had some not great players who played REALLY HARD and looked damned good.

"If you want to play here and don't want to embrace competition. The door swings both ways. (21:00)" - You've got to go out and do the work and you've gotta be productive." (27:40) Carsen Edwards wakes-up thinking about making more threes. We've seen that. We know what that looks like."

 

[PU pit bull]

If you didn't like him you are not a true Purdue fan.

Here's a good read.........
https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-v-illinois-game-thread.184657/page-8#post-2444978

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Nojel thanked Purdue on Twitter.

Painter commented on Haarms and Eastern leaving in the following article. It appears that he was blind-sighted by Nojel as it wasn't expected.

https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...es-transfers-dont-see-big-picture/5185213002/

 

[TC4THREE]

Which is in short my point...at some point when you continuously put all of the eggs in one basket, it is likely not going to work...it is too much pressure to continuously operate with that model and have it be successful every time...and it has happened three times now for Painter/Purdue...to his and their credit, they have made it work twice and are poised to do so a third time, but, I would much rather have more balanced classes with contributors in multiple classes opposed to the "all eggs in one basket" approach multiple times as has been the case.

I don't think it's so much an "approach" we're taking. You just fill the scholarships as attrition takes place. It's not predictable and not unique to us.

 

[DAG10]

I don't think it's so much an "approach" we're taking. You just fill the scholarships as attrition takes place. It's not predictable and not unique to us.

Purdue is not a program that will be able to recruit elite 4/5-man classes consistently...that is not unique to them either admittedly...but, it has had to do it three times and is going to do it a 4th...it worked out twice...which is a credit to Painter/Purdue...it definitely did not work out the third time...if it works the fourth time, we will all celebrate the 75% success rate, however, if it fails, we will all lament the 50% success rate.

You can't have sustained success replacing 4 or 5 guys in a class, especially if your premise is as you stated to "get old/stay old", as, three times that has not been the case already and there is going to be a fourth time...aside of programs where they are annually turning guys over (and don't subscribe to that philosophy of get old/stay old (much less proclaim it as Painter/Purdue has)), I don't know of another program, much less elite program, where every 4/5 years they are adding a 4/5 man class that HAS to be the foundation of the program for the following 4 years.

 

[Purdue85]

Purdue is not a program that will be able to recruit elite 4/5-man classes consistently...that is not unique to them either admittedly...but, it has had to do it three times and is going to do it a 4th...it worked out twice...which is a credit to Painter/Purdue...it definitely did not work out the third time...if it works the fourth time, we will all celebrate the 75% success rate, however, if it fails, we will all lament the 50% success rate.

You can't have sustained success replacing 4 or 5 guys in a class, especially if your premise is as you stated to "get old/stay old", as, three times that has not been the case already and there is going to be a fourth time...aside of programs where they are annually turning guys over (and don't subscribe to that philosophy of get old/stay old (much less proclaim it as Painter/Purdue has)), I don't know of another program, much less elite program, where every 4/5 years they are adding a 4/5 man class that HAS to be the foundation of the program for the following 4 years.

I would generally agree with your premise.

Purdue's 4/5 man classes generally have had a significant impact 2-3 years after recruitment. Our challenge ... generally ... is to continue to back-fill talent behind the most talented players.

I don't think we're a program who will consistently have a strong bench behind each position. At least, not in today's world.

I'm not sure where Painter is headed with this program, or where the CBB recruiting landscape is headed, but, for now, we're going to experience the ups and downs, no matter what people on this forum screech about.