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Newman vs. Franklin

Cheese, I believe that the discussion of total W/L record is because of the fact that IU fans like to throw up the IU tourney success. I will not say "their success" as many have not attended the university.

Tourney success is a combination of skill, luck and match-ups. Loyola was fun to watch in March but they were not one of the top 4 teams in the tournament. If they played a B1G schedule, they would have been mid-range at best. However, things went their way and good for them and God bless Sister Jean.

IU fans attribute the tourney success to only the first variable. But they do so in a logically inconsistent manner. Example: Davis was a bad coach, though he got IU to the Final Game. However, we were simultaneously told that Crean would be a great coach because he got Marquette to the Final Four. Crean's success was proof of coaching acumen. However, then he was declared a bad coach and everyone was glad that he was gone. It gets confusing and I do not do well when presented with cognitive dissonance.
 
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Cheese, I believe that the discussion of total W/L record is because of the fact that IU fans like to throw up the IU tourney success. I will not say "their success" as many have not attended the university.

Tourney success is a combination of skill, luck and match-ups. Loyola was fun to watch in March but they were not one of the top 4 teams in the tournament. If they played a B1G schedule, they would have been mid-range at best. However, things went their way and good for them and God bless Sister Jean.

IU fans attribute the tourney success to only the first variable. But they do so in a logically inconsistent manner. Example: Davis was a bad coach, though he got IU to the Final Game. However, we were simultaneously told that Crean would be a great coach because he got Marquette to the Final Four. Crean's success was proof of coaching acumen. However, then he was declared a bad coach and everyone was glad that he was gone. It gets confusing and I do not do well when presented with cognitive dissonance.

To be fair many IU fans were skeptical of Crean even when he was hired. And yes postseason success has a lot to do with luck.

But with good coaching, resource management and excellent recruiting you can increase your chances significantly.
 
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Cannon, let's not revise history. The overwhelming majority of IU fans celebrated Crean's hiring as many here can testify to that statement's accuracy. While it is true that the acclaim was not unanimous, it was very strongly in favor.

As the late Senator Daniel Moynihan pointed out: "You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."
 
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Indiana fan coming in peace.

I watched both players when playing the seniors this summer in preparation for the Ind/KY All Star game. Very different players with different skill sets. As an IU fan, I would have been pleased with either and could a see a role for either. Both seem like good kids that will help a team over four years.

I can see why the kids would prefer to attend different schools as they play the same spots on the floor, albeit different playing strengths. I can also see why the schools recruiting them would want either one, but not both. Mostly a function of available scholarships and team needs.

I look forward to having Franklin on the team, would have been just as happy with Newman. Purdue is probably the same.

By the way, my late father was a PU grad and didn't like IU either.:)
 
Cannon, let's not revise history. The overwhelming majority of IU fans celebrated Crean's hiring as many here can testify to that statement's accuracy. While it is true that the acclaim was not unanimous, it was very strongly in favor.

As the late Senator Daniel Moynihan pointed out: "You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."

Strange you don’t mention any facts to back up your claim. I was on the IU campus when it was announced the Crean was getting hired.

Now fan excitement and loyalty caused people to get on board and overlook some things but the initial reaction was meh.

The mood was generally pretty much “whatever” at least he’s clean and been to a final four.

The reaction to Archie was by far more positive and there was still a pretty strong contingent disappointed we got an up and comer.
 
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Strange you don’t mention any facts to back up your claim. I was on the IU campus when it was announced the Crean was getting hired.

Now fan excitement and loyalty caused people to get on board and overlook some things but the initial reaction was meh.

The mood was generally pretty much “whatever” at least he’s clean and been to a final four.

The reaction to Archie was by far more positive and there was still a pretty strong contingent disappointed we got an up and comer.
I don’t disagree with your recollection about the reception for Crean. Personally, I didn’t like the guy when he was at Marquette. That’s where the term ‘creaning’ was first used. However, when reading the Peegs board, you could not think IU was anything but sunshine and lollipops.

Most of the posters here can only judge the common IU fan by what gets posted here, often by posters who are trolling. At least 3 different IU guys came on here to declare that now IU would lock down Indiana and that Purdue was going to be in trouble. In addition, we had a couple ‘Purdue fans’ whose very first post on this board was some sort of hair pulling, hand wringing statement about how will we ever beat IU again. (Hence the high mistrust of low post count controversial posters).

I would have to say that Crean was highly regarded by most IU posters here and on the then Peegs board.
 
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I forgot about this. My favorite “relax” gif without question!
 
I agree. IU has had superior classes for about as long as I have known, and they really should have a positive margin in the head to head, even in just the last 40 years. When you get two teams that hate each other and have a rivalry, it doesn't matter a whole lot who's on teh court for each team, the games are generally competitive and intense. Even last year, when IU didn't have anyone who could hit the broad side of a barn, it was a 1 point game with a couple minutes left, purely due to the adrenaline of playing at home against your rival.
Doesn't matter if you are a Purdue fan or not. If you know anything about basketball. It is rare that Keady or Painter haven't done a good job, recruiting to their system.
 
You were conscious when you typed this? The insanity is strong with this one. lol.

I was. Do you have proof or just insults? There is debating back and forth about who is better, Armaan or Newman, Phinisee or IT, things like that. But I haven't seen any IU fans here that are blasting Painter's recruiting and parading what great classes IU has. I'm sure there are exceptions, every fanbase has them, but most IU fans understand that it doesn't matter how great your recruit looks if coach doesn't know how to develop and use him. Case in point, Hanner Perea.....my gosh, what a letdown.
 
Deron Davis, Perea, Rob Johnson, Bracey Wright, etc......
 
FWIW, I have "friends" in the AD and Franklin committed to IU because he knew after his visit to Purdue that Newman was coming to Purdue. Painter knows that too and told Franklin that if he couldn't play with Newman to commit elsewhere because he wanted Newman first and foremost.

If you follow the timeline the above info checks out. Franklin was a hard Purdue lean wanting to commit ASAP but ended up waiting a few days after his visit so he and his family could sort things out and do what was best for them/playing time. Right after Franklin committed to IU, Newman cancelled his IU visit.

At the end of the day IU fans are celebrating getting the lesser of the two players, so excited they got the 140th ranked kid only because they "beat out" Purdue. It's hilarious and shows you where that program is at.

On another note, it's pathetic how fickle and negative our fanbase is, led by the losers over at HammerandRails. Are we really upset that we missed out on the #140th player in the country in exchange for the #80th? LOL. I guarantee that when we land Newman the same ppl posting negative things about Painter last night will not send out a tweet praising him. Pathetic.
Sup?
 
FWIW, I have "friends" in the AD and Franklin committed to IU because he knew after his visit to Purdue that Newman was coming to Purdue. Painter knows that too and told Franklin that if he couldn't play with Newman to commit elsewhere because he wanted Newman first and foremost.

If you follow the timeline the above info checks out. Franklin was a hard Purdue lean wanting to commit ASAP but ended up waiting a few days after his visit so he and his family could sort things out and do what was best for them/playing time. Right after Franklin committed to IU, Newman cancelled his IU visit.

At the end of the day IU fans are celebrating getting the lesser of the two players, so excited they got the 140th ranked kid only because they "beat out" Purdue. It's hilarious and shows you where that program is at.

On another note, it's pathetic how fickle and negative our fanbase is, led by the losers over at HammerandRails. Are we really upset that we missed out on the #140th player in the country in exchange for the #80th? LOL. I guarantee that when we land Newman the same ppl posting negative things about Painter last night will not send out a tweet praising him. Pathetic.
What are your friends saying about Malik Hall?
 
Cannon, let's not revise history. The overwhelming majority of IU fans celebrated Crean's hiring as many here can testify to that statement's accuracy."
Really? I'd certainly like to see that(proof). I absolutely thought it was a terrible hire. Awful. As far as coaching goes. I do think he was a good hire in the sense he wasn't gonna get IU's ass in a sling(again). I couldn't stand Crean as a coach. I but do appreciate the fact that he took the job when no one else would, and in fairness, made the job respectable(again). Now I cannot speak for the majority of IU fans. And nor can you. But I can speak for those who I know, and not a single one of them liked the hire. It was a panic hire.
 
Really? I'd certainly like to see that(proof). I absolutely thought it was a terrible hire. Awful. As far as coaching goes. I do think he was a good hire in the sense he wasn't gonna get IU's ass in a sling(again). I couldn't stand Crean as a coach. I but do appreciate the fact that he took the job when no one else would, and in fairness, made the job respectable(again). Now I cannot speak for the majority of IU fans. And nor can you. But I can speak for those who I know, and not a single one of them liked the hire. It was a panic hire.
 
Dakota Mathias.
Newman is way more athletic than Dakota was as a high schooler. Dakota worked very hard on his body to become a great defender but he was never a player who could take someone off the dribble....where Newman is able to shoot and take players to the rim. He's also a very good defender already.
 
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Newman is way more athletic than Dakota was as a high schooler. Dakota worked very hard on his body to become a great defender but he was never a player who could take someone off the dribble....where Newman is able to shoot and take players to the rim. He's also a very good defender already.
Newman is not a guy that will put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim at the collegiate level. He could certainly develop that skill in time, but at this point he is a 3 and d guy. Newman is a more athletic DM in my opinion. Certainly closer to DM than Gary Harris.
 
Newman is not a guy that will put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim at the collegiate level. He could certainly develop that skill in time, but at this point he is a 3 and d guy. Newman is a more athletic DM in my opinion. Certainly closer to DM than Gary Harris.
Watch a little more video. He drives and dunks. I love Matthias, but I have NEVER seen him do that.
 
Umm, Pete. You do realize thats AFTER IU beat #1 UK, at the buzzer----Right? Not his presser when hired.

Seesh....o_O
Please. The fans did the same when he won his first home game against a pathetic Illinois team. Who could possibly forget how the fans rushed the court?
 
Watch a little more video. He drives and dunks. I love Matthias, but I have NEVER seen him do that.
Like I said, that's not his game at the college level. Instead of watching a couple highlight videos, maybe read up on him. Read the breakdowns of his game. They all agree he is a 3 and D guy. Ball handling is not one of his strengths at this point. Could certainly change in the future.

I'd be thrilled if he had the same production as jr/sr Mathias.
 
Please. The fans did the same when he won his first home game against a pathetic Illinois team. Who could possibly forget how the fans rushed the court?
Ummm----OK? You do realize fans were rushing the court because they WON a game---Not because they hired Tom Crean.

C'mon, fella's. Gotta step your troll game up...:D
 
Too easy.
To figure out.....;)

I'm sure there were a ton of IU fans that loved it when Crean was hired. Probably some that "bought" his horse and pony show. Hell some still want his ass at IU. But the majority? Naaah. The vibe I got was more of a "meh, whatever". Most liked the hire b/c they felt he would keep us out of trouble. And I say that mostly came from the older fan fans. Not sure. I've never felt comfortable speaking for thousands of people I do not know...:D

Irrelevant now. He's gone...Miller is here. We shall see how it works out. My thought? Terrific hire. Miller can flat out coach. Understands the game. But what I like most? He's not some "rah-rah-rah,. cheerleader, look at me" type of coach. Crean was. EVen some 8 years into his tenure he was still saying the old shit---"Look where we were.....................". Uggggh. He was still try to sell the rebuilding shit. Man am I so glad he is gone.
 
Not to dispute this current reality but we've seen Hoosiers of the past such as Vic Oladipo and Yogi Ferrell go from guys who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to formidable marksmen over the course of 2-3 seasons. I'm not sure how great of a shooting development program they have under Archie though.

Agree with Oladipo being like that, but Yogi has NEVER struggled. He became the guy that thought he had to do EVERYTHING at the end of a game though and cost Iu some wins later. Oladipo was the one that started as a 3 star and ended up being a phenomenol player. I am a Purdue fan and my hubby likes Iu and I try to be fair in my judgements with IU.
 
Strange you don’t mention any facts to back up your claim. I was on the IU campus when it was announced the Crean was getting hired.

Now fan excitement and loyalty caused people to get on board and overlook some things but the initial reaction was meh.

The mood was generally pretty much “whatever” at least he’s clean and been to a final four.

The reaction to Archie was by far more positive and there was still a pretty strong contingent disappointed we got an up and comer.


Cannon and Borden,

I did not conduct a quantitative study as to how many IU fans liked/disliked the Crean hiring. However, as has been pointed out by others, your team's rivals board was very much in favor of the hire.And also pointed out by others, IU posters were over here claiming Crean was a good coach because he got to a FF and was likely to return while at IU.

Now, while both of you were/may have been wary of the hire, you were in a distinct (and small) minority of posters on this board and the Peegs' board. Historic revisionism does not work.
 
You don't think eight years from now Archie will be saying the same thing. Crean got an extremely lucky draw in one tourney and lucked into Dwayne wade and made it to a final four. Archie lucked into the draw he got in one NCAA tourney and made an elite eight. Neither one has done anything in the tournament since
 
You don't think eight years from now Archie will be saying the same thing. Crean got an extremely lucky draw in one tourney and lucked into Dwayne wade and made it to a final four. Archie lucked into the draw he got in one NCAA tourney and made an elite eight. Neither one has done anything in the tournament since

You're talking out of your a$$.

That 2003 Marquette team didn't get an extremely lucky draw. They were a 3 seed that was ranked all year who had not only Wade, but Travis Diener and Steve Novak who also played in the NBA. As a 3 seed they beat the 14th seed, the 6th seed, and then upset #2 seed Pitt in the S16 and beat #1 seed Kentucky in the E8. They didn't get a lucky draw, they didn't play in a broken bracket, that was a damn good Marquette team that had 3 NBA players that were all recruited and developed by Crean.

That 2014 Dayton team was an 11 seed who beat 6th seed Ohio State and 3rd seed Syracuse en route to the Sweet 16 where they beat 10th seed Stanford. Again, that Dayton team created their own fortune by overachieving in the tournament, something Painter has YET to do here at Purdue. Hopefully that changes soon, and I believe it will at one point, but you're so off base in your assessment it is comical. Naturally I'd think you're MGK's alter posting ego with this take but alter ego's usually don't think alike.
 
You're talking out of your a$$.

That 2003 Marquette team didn't get an extremely lucky draw. They were a 3 seed that was ranked all year who had not only Wade, but Travis Diener and Steve Novak who also played in the NBA. As a 3 seed they beat the 14th seed, the 6th seed, and then upset #2 seed Pitt in the S16 and beat #1 seed Kentucky in the E8. They didn't get a lucky draw, they didn't play in a broken bracket, that was a damn good Marquette team that had 3 NBA players that were all recruited and developed by Crean.

That 2014 Dayton team was an 11 seed who beat 6th seed Ohio State and 3rd seed Syracuse en route to the Sweet 16 where they beat 10th seed Stanford. Again, that Dayton team created their own fortune by overachieving in the tournament, something Painter has YET to do here at Purdue. Hopefully that changes soon, and I believe it will at one point, but you're so off base in your assessment it is comical. Naturally I'd think you're MGK's alter posting ego with this take but alter ego's usually don't think alike.

Thanks for that correction BAB, all while backhanding CMP to boot. When it comes to all things IU, you da the man! BTW, how did you like that Newman commitment?
 
You're talking out of your a$$.

That 2003 Marquette team didn't get an extremely lucky draw. They were a 3 seed that was ranked all year who had not only Wade, but Travis Diener and Steve Novak who also played in the NBA. As a 3 seed they beat the 14th seed, the 6th seed, and then upset #2 seed Pitt in the S16 and beat #1 seed Kentucky in the E8. They didn't get a lucky draw, they didn't play in a broken bracket, that was a damn good Marquette team that had 3 NBA players that were all recruited and developed by Crean.

That 2014 Dayton team was an 11 seed who beat 6th seed Ohio State and 3rd seed Syracuse en route to the Sweet 16 where they beat 10th seed Stanford. Again, that Dayton team created their own fortune by overachieving in the tournament, something Painter has YET to do here at Purdue. Hopefully that changes soon, and I believe it will at one point, but you're so off base in your assessment it is comical. Naturally I'd think you're MGK's alter posting ego with this take but alter ego's usually don't think alike.
Bay Area Hoosier is obviously triggered.
 
Thanks for that correction BAB, all while backhanding CMP to boot. When it comes to all things IU, you da the man! BTW, how did you like that Newman commitment?

Was expecting him to commit shortly after Franklin committed elsewhere, but definitely a big pick up that should be able to step in right away and potentially help fill the void of losing Carsen.

What does Marquette and Dayton have to do with IU? As a fan of college basketball, and someone who really enjoyed watching that Marquette team play (that was my senior year of high school so remember them well) it's an insult to insinuate that they got to the F4 because of a lucky draw. It was a flat out ignorant and wrong statement at that. Just because this is a Purdue board doesn't excuse one from being ignorant.
 
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What does Marquette and Dayton have to do with IU? As a fan of college basketball, and someone who really enjoyed watching that Marquette team play (that was my senior year of high school so remember them well) it's an insult to insinuate that they got to the F4 because of a lucky draw. It was a flat out ignorant and wrong statement at that. Just because this is a Purdue board doesn't excuse one from being ignorant.
You felt insulted by a comment about Crean at Marquette? A very strange thing for a Purdue fan to say. I don't know any Purdue fans who get triggered by critiques of Crean at Marquette and Miller at Dayton.
 
You felt insulted by a comment about Crean at Marquette? A very strange thing for a Purdue fan to say. I don't know any Purdue fans who get triggered by critiques of Crean at Marquette and Miller at Dayton.

Uhh no. It's an insult to the game of college basketball to insinuate that Marquette team got a lucky draw. They were ranked all year and beat a 3,2, and 1 seed en route to a F4. Who they coach was is irrelevant. It's like saying Purdue's season last year was a fluke because they lost a NPOY candidate in Swanigam, it's an insult because any person making that claim doesn't understand or know what they are talking about. Anybody who can sit there and say a team who beat a 3, 2, and 1 got a lucky draw is an idiot, pure and simple.
 
Was expecting him to commit shortly after Franklin committed elsewhere, but definitely a big pick up that should be able to step in right away and potentially help fill the void of losing Carsen.

What does Marquette and Dayton have to do with IU? As a fan of college basketball, and someone who really enjoyed watching that Marquette team play (that was my senior year of high school so remember them well) it's an insult to insinuate that they got to the F4 because of a lucky draw. It was a flat out ignorant and wrong statement at that. Just because this is a Purdue board doesn't excuse one from being ignorant.

Being the basketball fan you are, have you corrected any IU fans on here, or other forums, when they are flat out ignorant? It certainly seems to be a PU thing with you. I may have missed it, of course.
 
Uhh no. It's an insult to the game of college basketball to insinuate that Marquette team got a lucky draw. They were ranked all year and beat a 3,2, and 1 seed en route to a F4. Who they coach was is irrelevant. It's like saying Purdue's season last year was a fluke because they lost a NPOY candidate in Swanigam, it's an insult because any person making that claim doesn't understand or know what they are talking about. Anybody who can sit there and say a team who beat a 3, 2, and 1 got a lucky draw is an idiot, pure and simple.
So you feel insulted for college basketball, not for IU, to the point where you throw personal insults at the person who stated the opinion about Crean and Archie. Hmmm...
 
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