Must Read: Gregg Doyel article on Painter/Purdue Program

[rasrar]

I think the below article is a great read and a great perspective from an outsider. Let me know what you all think.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nter-made-mistakes-but-stop-bashing/81972156/

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Cj isn't walking through the door? I'm not sure he's even better than Carsen.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

What a stupid article. After 11 years and top tier money, Purdue fans should be ok with a coach not having the knowledge that every armchair coach in America has and can't seem to ever recruit an entire team. It would be different if this was Matt's 3rd year....it's not. You don't get 20 years in this day and age to learn how to be a coach. I guess....unless you're at Purdue.

 

[TC4THREE]

I think the below article is a great read and a great perspective from an outsider. Let me know what you all think.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nter-made-mistakes-but-stop-bashing/81972156/

Spot on.

 

[Boilermagi]

What a great and spot on article. What is funny is all the armchair coaches that think they know better, who in reality know nothing, were whining and crying because Painter never took any blame in their eyes. Well, he did just that in this article.

The coach all the negative nitwits want to come here does not exist. There is no perfect coach. Oh you want Martin? He runs the same type of offense/defense Painter does and guess what? He's out of the tourney too. Like the article said, how do you think all of the bitching you dumbasses makes looks to the current players and to players Painter is trying to recruit? You morons don't think that in this day and age recruits don't see the garbage you spew? Why would any top player come here when the most clueless of our fans whine on social media about their coach and present doubt in a recruits mind as to if a coach will even be there or not? You dumbasses are a big part of the problem.

Painter clearly recruited for a different set of rules where a team can be defensive minded. Well with the new rules this season that clearly had an impact. And if you negative dweebs actually watch other schools, you will see that we are not alone.

All of you dorks calling for Painter to get fired need a reality check. There is no perfect coach and every effin coach makes mistakes. You whining like little girls only makes you look like a moron and mocked on other sites. Because of you dumbasses this forum is used as a punchline on other sites. Why? Specifically because you armchair coaches think you know what is what in terms of coaching and basketball, when every single one of you is nothing more than a clueless twattwaffle.

 

[LUV4PU]

Wow... I think Boilermagi just came up with a new name for this board. Let's call it "TWATTWAFFLE" Central . Knucklehead Central is so lame!

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Calling people names for saying what they think of Painter, doesn't do much good . Basically they are letting out their frustrations on what they felt should have happened, and saying a lot of truth. When you coach a Div 1 program and constantly choke, get beat, fail or whatever you call it in the NCAA tournament, with a team that has potential to go a long ways, you are gonna hear about it. Painter can apologize or give excuses all he wants, but talk means nothing, it's what you do that matters!

 

[Boilermagi]

Calling people names for saying what they think of Painter, doesn't do much good . Basically they are letting out their frustrations on what they felt should have happened, and saying a lot of truth. When you coach a Div 1 program and constantly choke, get beat, fail or whatever you call it in the NCAA tournament, with a team that has potential to go a long ways, you are gonna hear about it. Painter can apologize or give excuses all he wants, but talk means nothing, it's what you do that matters!

Blah blah blah. Don't like how I call people out? Tough. I don't care. It's one thing to be pissed about the loss as we all are but it is another thing to come on here and spew how you and the other negative nitwits think you are some sort of expert on it all and know better. Here is a clue for you, you haven't the first clue on what it takes to be successful coaching anywhere. Not Purdue, not division 2, not even a grade school girls team.

 

[Boilermagi]

Wow... I think Boilermagi just came up with a new name for this board. Let's call it "TWATTWAFFLE" Central . Knucklehead Central is so lame!

It certainly fits all the negative posters here.

 

[LUV4PU]

Painter can apologize or give excuses all he wants, but talk means nothing, it's what you do that matters!

That's what I've been saying for years. Talk is cheap. How you play on game day is the only thing that matters. I think we have some really good leaders coming up the ranks (Vince & Dakota) and they can lead this team in next couple years.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

My reply to Coach Painter and what this article stated is NO SHIT, you have to get better and ALOT better! You are not some first or second year Head Coach learning the game. Get your body and mind in tip top shape AND hire the best experienced old coach to get you through the crunch times of Big games! Boiler Up!

 

[mathboy]

What a stupid article. After 11 years and top tier money, Purdue fans should be ok with a coach not having the knowledge that every armchair coach in America has and can't seem to ever recruit an entire team. It would be different if this was Matt's 3rd year....it's not. You don't get 20 years in this day and age to learn how to be a coach. I guess....unless you're at Purdue.

You read the article, and you know about the budget constraints that almost drove recruiting to a standstill, and you still post this crap about "top tier money". WTF buddy?

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

Well it's official, you're retarded.

I love how you negative nitwits discount an article from someone that clearly knows more than you ever will and even in a response show how moronic you are. Can't recruit an entire team? He has done that now especially with Edwards coming on board. And doesn't know what every armchair coach in America knows? You dweebs don't even know what you're talking about.

The game is changing constantly, or did you forget all the rules that changed before this season started? You know the ones that are impacting pretty much everyone as you can see with all the upsets in the tourney. But I get it you're slow, so it takes you longer to figure these things out. Coaching is an always evolving state because the game is always evolving.

Now shut your clueless pie hole up. All you do now is embarrass yourself and Purdue the school you supposedly root for.

Please

You read the article, and you know about the budget constraints that almost drove recruiting to a standstill, and you still post this crap about "top tier money". WTF buddy?

Brother...that's ancient history. I took Purdue to the FF in my bracket this year (against my #1 rule of sports gambling). I did that because I saw Painter coach his team in the B1G finally like a good coach. I finally liked our draw and thought we might finally put it together. Then...he collapsed...he folded under the big lights. Like always. He is what he is.

By the way...recruiting different players doesn't matter unless you CHANGE THE WAY YOU COACH. Don't whine about rule changes. Adopt and adapt. Ever wonder why top point guards won't come here?

 

[BBG]

Please

Brother...that's ancient history. I took Purdue to the FF in my bracket this year (against my #1 rule of sports gambling). I did that because I saw Painter coach his team in the B1G finally like a good coach. I finally liked our draw and thought we might finally put it together. Then...he collapsed...he folded under the big lights. Like always. He is what he is.

By the way...recruiting different players doesn't matter unless you CHANGE THE WAY YOU COACH. Don't whine about rule changes. Adopt and adapt. Ever wonder why top point guards won't come here?

So, does your post apply to every single coach that was upset? The rule changes are new this year and changing won't happen overnight because you have to change the players you recruit TO adapt and adopt. And Carson Edwards is proof of that concept IMO.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

So, does your post apply to every single coach that was upset? The rule changes are new this year and changing won't happen overnight because you have to change the players you recruit TO adapt and adopt. And Carson Edwards is proof of that concept IMO.

Did the rule changes apply to fouling when you're up by 3?

 

[BoilerGal74]

I think the below article is a great read and a great perspective from an outsider. Let me know what you all think.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nter-made-mistakes-but-stop-bashing/81972156/

Pretty much nails it all the way around....

 

[plaxico80]

Painter is doing a GREAT JOB.

I can't understand why everybody can't see that!

 

[Inspector100]

I am not impressed with the article in the Star. The writer seems like he went to the fan forum, such as this one, to find a few or several points to ask or discuss with the coach and came back with answers that he either contrived himself or actually got from the coach. I wouldn't put it past him to fudge a little on the answer quoted from the coach. Notice he only quotes a few words and not an entire statement. CMP always puts many more words into the answer than shown. The message is the same as that from the Athletic Department with a few quoted comments to support it. The writer hasn't done anything creative or unique here to give the fans more perspective than they already have. This article leaves me struggling with the truth that there is nothing here we didn't already know. So much for implied inside information. Just my opinion.

 

[Bigohh]

Painter is doing a GREAT JOB.

I can't understand why everybody can't see that!

Right on. We are THE SETTLERS. We settle for mediocrity and under performance because we might fire our current coach and hire a guy who cannot win anything. Kind of like firing a 500 coach so we can go to the very bottom of the conference with zero or one conference win. Oh wait, we already have done that in football and wbb why not men's basketball.

 

[BoilerBiker]

You read the article, and you know about the budget constraints that almost drove recruiting to a standstill, and you still post this crap about "top tier money". WTF buddy?

I guess my reply to bbg's thread could be posted here too.


But What exactly is the argument about budget, facilities, recruiting, etc?
On the grand scheme /the whole NCAA, how do mid majors not just succeed, but do better year after year despite the power five spending more and more money compared to them?

Money obviously does not hurt, id take Kentucky Ohio St Michigan Oregon $.
But it's far from a simple guarantee of winning. Even Kentucky does not win close to every year.

We continue to see the importance of team play, senior experience, great game plans, and ultimately coaching.
Id argue Gonzaga has stuck around for decades now because of their head coach more than their budget.
Wichita St appears to be another if he stays.
The coach precedes the money.
(Obviously more money will then come in with success to then help sustain it further, but pales in comparison to resources of power five football schools. I'd even throw in big East teams like villanova).

 

[boilerpt]

"It's only a matter of time, now. Tom Crean cannot coach the Indiana basketball team much longer. When would be too long? The Hoosiers' first exhibition is Thursday night. That would be too long."

That is from Doyel, November 2014. I'm glad he's reminding us to relax. Genius.

 

[FirstDownB]

Agree with the bottom line that Painter is here for awhile and the best thing is for Purdue fans to get behind him and program. However, I don't think a few angry/frustrated comments that follow a crushing loss are unique to Purdue nor should they be surprising to anyone. I guess I'm sort of in the middle ground here.. Definitely not in the fire Painter camp. I've said all along you don't fire on the upswing, and I want to see how the important 2017 recruiting class pans out.

But there is one thing that stunts my optimism. It's this notion now that all we need is a playmaker at PG and everything will be fine. I don't think its that simple. Remember when all we needed was some quality big guys? Or some outside shooters? I mean, if it were as simple as getting a skilled PG, technically we had one in RJ and he was a bad fit. Maybe Bryson, too. He was limited skill-wise but you could probably put him in the same camp. At the very least we're seeing Painter have mixed results recruiting and developing that type of player.

 

[threeeputtt]

I think the below article is a great read and a great perspective from an outsider. Let me know what you all think.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nter-made-mistakes-but-stop-bashing/81972156/

I am not ready to throw the towel in on Painter but......my patience is thin. One BT title and 2 S16 in 11 years (12 with coach in waiting) is only a mediocre job. Remember coach Ray Eddy of the 50's and 60's? Decent coach, ok teams, great players like Dischinger and Schellhase but, never turned the corner. I don't expect FF often, or BT titles often but............. I am not impressed with the body of work for 11 years. I expect improvement in the next 1-2 years.

 

[boilerpt]

I guess my reply to bbg's thread could be posted here too.


But What exactly is the argument about budget, facilities, recruiting, etc?
On the grand scheme /the whole NCAA, how do mid majors not just succeed, but do better year after year despite the power five spending more and more money compared to them?

Money obviously does not hurt, id take Kentucky Ohio St Michigan Oregon $.
But it's far from a simple guarantee of winning. Even Kentucky does not win close to every year.

We continue to see the importance of team play, senior experience, great game plans, and ultimately coaching.
Id argue Gonzaga has stuck around for decades now because of their head coach more than their budget.
Wichita St appears to be another if he stays.
The coach precedes the money.
(Obviously more money will then come in with success to then help sustain it further, but pales in comparison to resources of power five football schools. I'd even throw in big East teams like villanova).

I could buy the budget excuse if so many schools and coaches didn't do much much more with much much less. A mediocre recruiter with a bigger budget is still a mediocre recruiter. I could also buy the budget excuse if Painter was aiming for elite recruits year after year. He generally targets the second tier of recruits, most of which are from Indiana and neighboring states. Is money really an issue, or just his inability to close?

 

[tjreese]

My reply to Coach Painter and what this article stated is NO SHIT, you have to get better and ALOT better! You are not some first or second year Head Coach learning the game. Get your body and mind in tip top shape AND hire the best experienced old coach to get you through the crunch times of Big games! Boiler Up!

Wouldn't it be fun if basketball coaches could play a defensive team and and offensive team like football every possession? course that would last too long...

 

[BoilerNGold013]

The CJ comment was misguided imo. Carson looks to be a better shooter, driver, athlete, and facilitator. And no its not bias. I have tried to watch as much video as I can of each. CJ is probably the better ball handler but its not a huge gap.
Going back to the main issue of play maker. Would it be terrific to have someone like E'Twaun on the team? YES! But thats not why we lost on Thursday. Mental lock ups, questionable ball handling, and last but most important PLAYING NOT TO LOSE.
The third point was the biggest reason why lost. Twice when Rock was pressing, Hammons was basically wide-open at the basket for a lay-in but Mathias pulled it back out to try and bleed clock. Painter was so afraid of making a mistake that he pulled the troops back on offense like there was 30 seconds left and not 3:30 left. That was the worst part and biggest mistake. I honest to God think we win that game going away if we just keep attacking.
Also on a side note, I really don't get why Haas couldn't have spelled AJ a little bit more than he did. His defense has been decent all year and he could have come in and beaten down the Rock players even more in the post while AJ was resting.

 

[TJBoiler]

I think the below article is a great read and a great perspective from an outsider. Let me know what you all think.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nter-made-mistakes-but-stop-bashing/81972156/

I read it and he is right. If you want Painter gone I GET it. But this bashing is just hurting the Program when the team for the next 2 years will be good. But needs more talent at playmaker.

BTW here is something I posted in comments at star comparing Painter and Keady after 11 years at Purdue: Painters NCAA record after 11 years coaching Purdue is: 8-8. (excluding 1 loss with N Illinois). With 1 Big 10 tournament 09 win & 2 sweet 16's. 2 losses in 1st rd

Keady NCAA record after 11 years at Purdue: 8 out of 11 years in NCAA. 3 Big 10 championships. 1 outright. 5-8 in NCAA tourney with 1 sweet 16. 3 losses in 1st rd.

GEE and Gene Keady has Purdue's court named after him. Compared to Keady Painters resume is BETTER at least in the tournament.

Big Dog Glenn Robinson saved Gene's butt because Keady missed the tournament in 92 and then Glenn came along for 93.

 

[TJBoiler]

The CJ comment was misguided imo. Carson looks to be a better shooter, driver, athlete, and facilitator. And no its not bias. I have tried to watch as much video as I can of each. CJ is probably the better ball handler but its not a huge gap.
Going back to the main issue of play maker. Would it be terrific to have someone like E'Twaun on the team? YES! But thats not why we lost on Thursday. Mental lock ups, questionable ball handling, and last but most important PLAYING NOT TO LOSE.
The third point was the biggest reason why lost. Twice when Rock was pressing, Hammons was basically wide-open at the basket for a lay-in but Mathias pulled it back out to try and bleed clock. Painter was so afraid of making a mistake that he pulled the troops back on offense like there was 30 seconds left and not 3:30 left. That was the worst part and biggest mistake. I honest to God think we win that game going away if we just keep attacking.
Also on a side note, I really don't get why Haas couldn't have spelled AJ a little bit more than he did. His defense has been decent all year and he could have come in and beaten down the Rock players even more in the post while AJ was resting.

Hass said the team got passive. It was an issue all year when they got a decent lead. The players seemed to let up instead of putting a team away. The outside shooting was there in that game. Purdue should have shot way better then 9-28. If they do they win easily. Case in point: PJ: 1-5, He has to shoot 2-5. Cause they were open shots. Edwards 3-7. Have no issue there. Mathias 3-8. He had many good looks. Should have been at leas 4-8. Davis 2-6. With the shots he had open he has to hit 4-6. Cline 0-2. He has to go 1-2. 9-28 vs should be: 14 for 28 in the biggest game of season. Purdue gets another 15 points off 3's. This is where they lost a game with a lower seed team basically taking away the inside game and daring Purdue to shoot well from 3pt range. It did not happen and Purdue lost. Plus the 18 turnovers.

As Doyle stated when Purdue shot well from 3 and managed turnovers they were very very good. When you saw these issues pop up in this game. You knew Purdue was in trouble.

 

[TC4THREE]

"It's only a matter of time, now. Tom Crean cannot coach the Indiana basketball team much longer. When would be too long? The Hoosiers' first exhibition is Thursday night. That would be too long."

That is from Doyel, November 2014. I'm glad he's reminding us to relax. Genius.

Pretty sure the context of this was due to the off-the-court issues his team was having rather than due to wins/losses.

 

[rjmpu82]

I liked the article for the most part and can provide no major arguments to it. I do think fans are entitled to vent their frustrations, but I also think that too much of that for too long can affect the program and recruiting. Try to stay positive when at all possible( right now it's difficult).

As for Painter, he has some decent upside. Players graduate and stay out of trouble. He played at Purdue so he knows what he is up against. He is knowledgeable about the game but not always willing to adapt or evolve with it.

I think he has a stubborn streak. He needs to change his philosophy a bit when it comes to point guards and offense in general. Whether he likes it or not, kids today want to run. I think they are willing to play defense IF they can play offense too. Painter is very conservative offensively. You can see players hesitate at times when shooting or appear afraid to miss.

Finally, Painter as a person is not naturally emotional. That's fine, but he has to find a better way to lead and inspire. Watch other good coaches....they are passionate and involved every minute of the game. They kneel in front of their players on the bench and chastise or praise, whatever is merited at the time. You never see that from CMP. They get a quick handshake as they come off the court and that is about it. AND HE HAS TO GO TO BAT FOR HAAS with the officials or they will continue to screw IH.

Overall, CMP is not bad and could eventually be very good if he is willing to adapt and evolve by looking in the mirror and at his program.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Painter is doing a GREAT JOB.

I can't understand why everybody can't see that!

Well....at least a heck of a lot better than Clappy ole Tan Boy over the years.....lol! Doesn't grope himself on TV, pick his nose, or chew gum he picks up off the floor....Guess that's a start....

 

[SYoumans]

Blah blah blah. Don't like how I call people out? Tough. I don't care. It's one thing to be pissed about the loss as we all are but it is another thing to come on here and spew how you and the other negative nitwits think you are some sort of expert on it all and know better. Here is a clue for you, you haven't the first clue on what it takes to be successful coaching anywhere. Not Purdue, not division 2, not even a grade school girls team.

Boilermagi, you can't handle anyone critiquing this coach (unless it's a positive critique) so you call them names like a whiny little girl. Grow up and gain some objectivity. People who question other's people's fanship just because they offer a negative review of certain parts of a program -- like the head coach (who, in this case, has won one NCAA tournament game in the last five years -- are complete and total douchebags.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Boilermagi, you can't handle anyone critiquing this coach (unless it's a positive critique) so you call them names like a whiny little girl. Grow up and gain some objectivity. People who question other's people's fanship just because they offer a negative review of certain parts of a program -- like the head coach (who, in this case, has won one NCAA tournament game in the last five years -- are complete and total douchebags.

+100

 

[gelesen]

I think this article was written before all the upsets Friday. Was UWV and MSU imperfectly constructed. Did their coaches make mistakes? Izzo said "in my wildest dreams I didn't think they'd hit some of the shots they hit". You could say the same about our game. Honestly the 3 threes they hit at the need of regulation were pretty tough shots. And in all the games so far with the same situation I have not seen one coach foul with a three point lead. This second guessing is just like in baseball, why didn't the manager pull the starter or why didn't he leave him in. It's pointless. The issue here is it's the NCAA tourney and it's competitive. Sometimes shots just go in , like the halfcourt shot for Northern Iowa and and sometimes they don't. I think one big issue for us is we played with mostly freshman and sophs, a relatively young team yet.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Boilermagi, you can't handle anyone critiquing this coach (unless it's a positive critique) so you call them names like a whiny little girl. Grow up and gain some objectivity. People who question other's people's fanship just because they offer a negative review of certain parts of a program -- like the head coach (who, in this case, has won one NCAA tournament game in the last five years -- are complete and total douchebags.

Boilerfagi isn't a Purdue fan, he's a loser troll with no life.

 

[GemstateBoiler]

Blah blah blah. Don't like how I call people out? Tough. I don't care. It's one thing to be pissed about the loss as we all are but it is another thing to come on here and spew how you and the other negative nitwits think you are some sort of expert on it all and know better. Here is a clue for you, you haven't the first clue on what it takes to be successful coaching anywhere. Not Purdue, not division 2, not even a grade school girls team.

Okay I can get the over-the-top loyalty stuff but I also get the criticisms of performances from fans who want better. That's our free world and that's sports. We all want a perfect storm but yes some of us have been fans and alumni for 30-40 years or more, and it does make these people some sort of experts if you really think about it. Some comments may be extreme and out of line but you are way too sensitive to the average rant of wanting a better result or product.

 

[lbodel]

What a stupid article. After 11 years and top tier money, Purdue fans should be ok with a coach not having the knowledge that every armchair coach in America has and can't seem to ever recruit an entire team. It would be different if this was Matt's 3rd year....it's not. You don't get 20 years in this day and age to learn how to be a coach. I guess....unless you're at Purdue.

Think what you want, but we're not paying "top tier" money. Painter's not in the top 20 highest paid.

Also, can you give me a couple teams that fit your criteria of having an "entire team" this year?

 

[BoilerDeac]

Blah blah blah. Don't like how I call people out? Tough. I don't care. It's one thing to be pissed about the loss as we all are but it is another thing to come on here and spew how you and the other negative nitwits think you are some sort of expert on it all and know better. Here is a clue for you, you haven't the first clue on what it takes to be successful coaching anywhere. Not Purdue, not division 2, not even a grade school girls team.

Clearly, Painter doesn't either, especially with the talent he had.

 

[BoilerDeac]

So, does your post apply to every single coach that was upset? The rule changes are new this year and changing won't happen overnight because you have to change the players you recruit TO adapt and adopt. And Carson Edwards is proof of that concept IMO.

No, because not every coach is to blame for yet ANOTHER meltdown.

Just like DJ Khaled says: "Another one!"

 

[lbodel]

I am not ready to throw the towel in on Painter but......my patience is thin. One BT title and 2 S16 in 11 years (12 with coach in waiting) is only a mediocre job. Remember coach Ray Eddy of the 50's and 60's? Decent coach, ok teams, great players like Dischinger and Schellhase but, never turned the corner. I don't expect FF often, or BT titles often but............. I am not impressed with the body of work for 11 years. I expect improvement in the next 1-2 years.

To be fair, he's won 1 regular season and 1 conference tournament title (not in the same year). I know there's the whole traditional regular season championship mantra in the Big Ten.

Also, Gene Keady didn't go to his first Sweet 16 until his 8th year and didn't go past the second round again until he made his first Elite 8 appearance 14 years in.