More firepower

[proudopete]

We really need more firepower from the starters. Having Morton and Furst playing together is letting teams sag off of those two way too much.

Maybe start out by putting Gillis back in the starting lineup and if I had my way, Newman would replace Morton. I know Morton is our stopper on defense but I think we need offense more and we can live with Newmans defense to achieve a more powerful starting lineup.

Bottom line in my opinion is that we need as many shooters around Zach as possible and our current lineup leaves most of the weight to score on Loyer’s shoulders. Loyer is good but being a Frosh in this league is tough and he needs as much help as possible to get this team off to a good start.

I fully expect to see Morton stay as a starter but I can see Paint swapping Gillis for Furst. Furst needs more space to work with down low and the lineup that has him paired with TKR is more potent than when Gillis is playing there.

 

[msfboiler3]

We really need more firepower from the starters. Having Morton and Furst playing together is letting teams sag off of those two way too much.

Maybe start out by putting Gillis back in the starting lineup and if I had my way, Newman would replace Morton. I know Morton is our stopper on defense but I think we need offense more and we can live with Newmans defense to achieve a more powerful starting lineup.

Bottom line in my opinion is that we need as many shooters around Zach as possible and our current lineup leaves most of the weight to score on Loyer’s shoulders. Loyer is good but being a Frosh in this league is tough and he needs as much help as possible to get this team off to a good start.

I fully expect to see Morton stay as a starter but I can see Paint swapping Gillis for Furst. Furst needs more space to work with down low and the lineup that has him paired with TKR is more potent than when Gillis is playing there.

Newman needs to start. If not for morton then loyer or even go small ball and for furst.

 

[seminolesboilers]

OP is right...teams sag to defend Edey (teams have to play that way because Zach is not stoppable one-on-one). To counter that type of defense is to have 4 other players on the floor who are legitimate shooters. Sorry Morton...but his shot is not consistent and defenses will gladly let him shoot it.

 

[bonefish1]

I like Furst over Gillis. More size, comparable shooting/rebounding, better D on opposing 4.
I'd like to see Newman replace Morton. I don't think the trade off of Mortons D for Newmans O is worth it when the team is struggling to make shots.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I like Furst over Gillis. More size, comparable shooting/rebounding, better D on opposing 4.
I'd like to see Newman replace Morton. I don't think the trade off of Mortons D for Newmans O is worth it when the team is struggling to make shots.

Careful. People love Morton. He was going to be our point guard remember? Replace Thompson and Hunter! Put Morton at the point! How many times did we hear that last year? He played a few minutes at the point at the beginning of the year and saying it didn't go well is putting it mildly. Don't hear much of that anymore.

 

[Boiler Buck]

We really need more firepower from the starters. Having Morton and Furst playing together is letting teams sag off of those two way too much.

Maybe start out by putting Gillis back in the starting lineup and if I had my way, Newman would replace Morton. I know Morton is our stopper on defense but I think we need offense more and we can live with Newmans defense to achieve a more powerful starting lineup.

Bottom line in my opinion is that we need as many shooters around Zach as possible and our current lineup leaves most of the weight to score on Loyer’s shoulders. Loyer is good but being a Frosh in this league is tough and he needs as much help as possible to get this team off to a good start.

I fully expect to see Morton stay as a starter but I can see Paint swapping Gillis for Furst. Furst needs more space to work with down low and the lineup that has him paired with TKR is more potent than when Gillis is playing there.

Does Gillis really give more offense than Furst? Last I checked Furst was averaging 2 more ppg in less minutes.

 

[Poprudy]

Does Gillis really give more offense than Furst? Last I checked Furst was averaging 2 more ppg in less minutes.

Both are very dynamic, but a 6'10" player that can shoot, rebounds, cuts well and has a post up game. I like Furst starting for sure. Mason is a great compliment for Furst.

 

[Poprudy]

Careful. People love Morton. He was going to be our point guard remember? Replace Thompson and Hunter! Put Morton at the point! How many times did we hear that last year? He played a few minutes at the point at the beginning of the year and saying it didn't go well is putting it mildly. Don't hear much of that anymore.

I agree to a point. Where Morton has a little separation is his TO to Assist ratio and that's what cost us the Rutgers game. I'm assuming CMP would rather have a guard that plays pretty good defense and can make the right pass. Newman continually gets lost on defense and still has a high TO rate.

 

[northside100]

Both are very dynamic, but a 6'10" player that can shoot, rebounds, cuts well and has a post up game. I like Furst starting for sure. Mason is a great compliment for Furst.

Can Caleb shoot? At least Mason has proved it on decent volume in the past. I have no confidence that Caleb is going to figure out his three point shot this year.

 

[northside100]

Does Gillis really give more offense than Furst? Last I checked Furst was averaging 2 more ppg in less minutes.

No coaching staff above a JV level would use that measure.

 

[northside100]

Careful. People love Morton. He was going to be our point guard remember? Replace Thompson and Hunter! Put Morton at the point! How many times did we hear that last year? He played a few minutes at the point at the beginning of the year and saying it didn't go well is putting it mildly. Don't hear much of that anymore.

Fans are generally quite ignorant. Ethan does see the courts well, and is a gifted passer, but there is no way he was ever going to run the point.

His shooting this year is definitely open to criticism, but of course fans always see the simple things like shooting percentage and overvalue them versus defense and intangibles.

If we had two other guards, in addition to Braden, who were shooting it well I’d say sit Ethan. At this point, I don’t know who else II’d put in there in addition to Brandon and I’d sit Loyer before sitting Morton.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Fans are generally quite ignorant. Ethan does see the courts well, and is a gifted passer, but there is no way he was ever going to run the point.

His shooting this year is definitely open to criticism, but of course fans always see the simple things like shooting percentage and overvalue them versus defense and intangibles.

If we had two other guards, in addition to Braden, who were shooting it well I’d say sit Ethan. At this point, I don’t know who else II’d put in there in addition to Brandon and I’d sit Loyer before sitting Morton.

Morton has to play. We only have 4 serviceable guards at this point. He just has his limitations on offense. I'd like to see Morton get a few more minutes but a this point we just need to hope all of our guards can shoot a little better.

 

[Poprudy]

Can Caleb shoot? At least Mason has proved it on decent volume in the past. I have no confidence that Caleb is going to figure out his three point shot this year.

Did you do any research before responding???

Considering you were the person who thought Morton could shoot and defenses would need to drag out on him(when I compared his utilization to Nojel). Once again, you are completely off base with your Caleb comments and I love Mason, but he's not Caleb.

Consider doing some research on stats before responding to something you have zero clue on. Caleb is more efficient as a total.

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

Does Gillis really give more offense than Furst? Last I checked Furst was averaging 2 more ppg in less minutes.

Because Gillis plays more with Edey whose usage is very high.

 

[northside100]

Did you do any research before responding???

Considering you were the person who thought Morton could shoot and defenses would need to drag out on him(when I compared his utilization to Nojel). Once again, you are completely off base with your Caleb comments and I love Mason, but he's not Caleb.

Consider doing some research on stats before responding to something you have zero clue on. Caleb is more efficient as a total.

Wow, you've really been waiting on that one! I'm sincerely sorry that I've bothered you so much, I can be a real asshole at times.

Caleb is a fantastic player and will only continue to get better. His three point shot is broken right now and I don't know why. He's only taking wide open looks and hitting on less than 32% of his shots including 1 for 8 over the last three games. Many of those shots have not been close. This is after reports from fall camp had him shooting it really well. I believe the quote was 'to the point where it was surprising when he missed one'.

Mason isn't shooting the ball much better at 35% and has been very streaky, starting the season 1 for 6, then going 7 for 12 over the next four games and 2 for 11 after coming back from injury.

Caleb may be more efficient overall because he's a much better finisher at the rim, but he's really struggling to shoot right now (not just from deep, he's 5 of 12 from the line over the last four games) and Zach needs a shooter out there with him. Given Mason's overall body of work from three, his performance to date and the fact that his shooting just looks more on track right now, I feel much more comfortable banking on Mason being that shooter at this point.

PS - I’m a self admitted a hole and I’m not always right (I would have never predicted that this team would shoot so poorly), but I generally know my shit, as I did here.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Because Gillis plays more with Edey whose usage is very high.

Obviously, I like Gillis starting and love the way CMP is managing the lineups and PT this year which I have mentioned several times..

I was only replying about the offense abilities between the two mentioned by the OP and offering a counter argument which apparently is beyond the readability herein LOL

 

[proudopete]

Obviously, I like Gillis starting and love the way CMP is managing the lineups and PT this year which I have mentioned several times..

I was only replying about the offense abilities between the two mentioned by the OP and offering a counter argument which apparently is beyond the readability herein LOL

I get what you are saying but Gillis seems to complement Edey more than Furst. Furst gets his points in the paint and not having Edey in the game clogging it up seems to work better for him. I also feel Gillis is better from deep and that’s what we need to balance out the over help from the defense when Edey is in the game.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Wow, you've really been waiting on that one! I'm sincerely sorry that I've bothered you so much, I can be a real asshole at times.

Caleb is a fantastic player and will only continue to get better. His three point shot is broken right now and I don't know why. He's only taking wide open looks and hitting on less than 32% of his shots including 1 for 8 over the last three games. Many of those shots have not been close. This is after reports from fall camp had him shooting it really well. I believe the quote was 'to the point where it was surprising when he missed one'.

Mason isn't shooting the ball much better at 35% and has been very streaky, starting the season 1 for 6, then going 7 for 12 over the next four games and 2 for 11 after coming back from injury.

Caleb may be more efficient overall because he's a much better finisher at the rim, but he's really struggling to shoot right now (not just from deep, he's 5 of 12 from the line over the last four games) and Zach needs a shooter out there with him. Given Mason's overall body of work from three, his performance to date and the fact that his shooting just looks more on track right now, I feel much more comfortable banking on Mason being that shooter at this point.

Mason is definitely a better shooter than Furst.

Furst's ceiling is much higher, considering he's longer, more athletic, and more dynamic as a post player, but Mason's shooting is probably more beneficial in certain lineups.

 

[tjreese]

OP is right...teams sag to defend Edey (teams have to play that way because Zach is not stoppable one-on-one). To counter that type of defense is to have 4 other players on the floor who are legitimate shooters. Sorry Morton...but his shot is not consistent and defenses will gladly let him shoot it.

I think you can do it with 3. Three players capable of shooting well leaves two other defenders on the remaining two players for Purdue outside normal help. If you double Zach, one is wide open. If you don't double Zach he is going to have a great shot of scoring. Less than 3 you have problems unless you can drive the ball well, have a great pull up game or can just bloody the other team in teh lane.

 

[Poprudy]

Does Gillis really give more offense than Furst? Last I checked Furst was averaging 2 more ppg in less minutes.

Your thoughts on Furst are based on a small percentage, but overall correct. He's more efficient and plays the 4 very well.

The 4 should be able to do most of what Furst does. Mason is tough as nails and can shoot, but doesn't seem to post or has problems with taller...most 4's on the block.

That is my concern about having 4 shooter's on the perimeter when they're struggling at the moment. Could that change sure, but having a nice stretch vs an undersized small forward is what I like.

 

[Boiler8285]

I like Furst over Gillis. More size, comparable shooting/rebounding, better D on opposing 4.
I'd like to see Newman replace Morton. I don't think the trade off of Mortons D for Newmans O is worth it when the team is struggling to make shots.

Painter is not moving off Morty but at least needs to move Gillis back to starting. Furst is zero threat from 3 and just further gums up the offense. Furst and TKR seem to make a good 1-2 alternative to Edey. I don't think it is coincidence the offense began to struggle when Gillis went out.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Painter is not moving off Morty but at least needs to move Gillis back to starting. Furst is zero threat from 3 and just further gums up the offense. Furst and TKR seem to make a good 1-2 alternative to Edey. I don't think it is coincidence the offense began to struggle when Gillis went out.

Painter talked about Gillis when he was coming back from his injury that he thought it just takes a little while (a few games) to adjust and get back to getting used to the pace of starting....I wouldn't be totally surprised if he makes the change tomorrow night against Ohio State, especially with the team coming off the loss. We shall see. They need an all-hands-on-deck effort, regardless of who starts and who comes off the bench.

 

[tjreese]

Painter talked about Gillis when he was coming back from his injury that he thought it just takes a little while (a few games) to adjust and get back to getting used to the pace of starting....I wouldn't be totally surprised if he makes the change tomorrow night against Ohio State, especially with the team coming off the loss. We shall see. They need an all-hands-on-deck effort, regardless of who starts and who comes off the bench.

I caught a video of Matt (still need to see second half of Rutger game) mentioning that Purdue tooks some tough shots..."not a lot, but enough to cost a game" outside of clock winding down talking about the 3 ball. So, I'm really interested in seeing if Matt channels them down a path. Does Matt expect players to touch the ball a few times and get in the flow before shooting a 3? Does Matt channel some of the "more" lower percent shooters to be a threat in other ways? Does Matt not say anything and just sub players that take bad shots and catches them coming to the bench? Or...does Matt just think the kids are smart enough to play to their strengths understanding what they can and cannot do as efficient as needed?

Or does Matt just change the lineup some inserting an older, physical Mason on the road with Holtman usually being pretty good on D. Outside of winning...seeing some growth and changes for Purdue is usually interesting.

 

[proudopete]

I caught a video of Matt (still need to see second half of Rutger game) mentioning that Purdue tooks some tough shots..."not a lot, but enough to cost a game" outside of clock winding down talking about the 3 ball. So, I'm really interested in seeing if Matt channels them down a path. Does Matt expect players to touch the ball a few times and get in the flow before shooting a 3? Does Matt channel some of the "more" lower percent shooters to be a threat in other ways? Does Matt not say anything and just sub players that take bad shots and catches them coming to the bench? Or...does Matt just think the kids are smart enough to play to their strengths understanding what they can and cannot do as efficient as needed?

Or does Matt just change the lineup some inserting an older, physical Mason on the road with Holtman usually being pretty good on D. Outside of winning...seeing some growth and changes for Purdue is usually interesting.

What does he do with Morton? Does he tell him to shoot less or does he tell him he has to be a threat and should shoot the open shot?

I’m torn but if he cannot be a threat to score from deep then he needs to try attacking the rim more. Use his size against smaller defenders.

 

[tjreese]

What does he do with Morton? Does he tell him to shoot less or does he tell him he has to be a threat and should shoot the open shot?

I’m torn but if he cannot be a threat to score from deep then he needs to try attacking the rim more. Use his size against smaller defenders.

I menitoned just prior to the season I thought Brandon would be in the first group and Ethan in the second. Many of those reasons others have stated since. However, the other side that I mentioned was that I thought with Ethan's size and ball handling he would be a better fit with Trey and Caleb where he could drive the ball more. Personally, I like some balance between Gene and Matt on what is a good shot and how that differs between players. If that is a reality...different "good shots" for different players and you "wanted players to play to their strengtha" those two thoughts provide a direction...not a mandate, but a direction

Gotta have some offense with the next group as well....or really outstanding defense for a few minutes...

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Isn't it funny
how many question the coaching of a team thats been ranked #1 in the country both last year and this.
but you go on disagreeing with Coach Painter and let us know when you get that big coaching job you so deserve!

 

[bonefish1]

Isn't it funny
how many question the coaching of a team thats been ranked #1 in the country both last year and this.
but you go on disagreeing with Coach Painter and let us know when you get that big coaching job you so deserve!

we all love the high rankings, me included. But until Painter can carry that high ranking through the tourney.....

 

[northside100]

we all love the high rankings, me included. But until Painter can carry that high ranking through the tourney.....

Lol, that's bs, fans will always question, regardless of how many FF's or NC's a coach achieves.

I do agree that it's fine for fans to question coaches. I suspect that a lot of the better questions being asked here are things that MP and staff are asking as well. There are plenty of others (sit Morton!) that MP would rightfully find laughable.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Lol, that's bs, fans will always question, regardless of how many FF's or NC's a coach achieves.

I do agree that it's fine for fans to question coaches. I suspect that a lot of the better questions being asked here are things that MP and staff are asking as well. There are plenty of others (sit Morton!) that MP would rightfully find laughable.

I don't keep track, but I would guess that the same people saying "sit Morton" also wanted Painter to sit Eifert because Wheeler was obviously better.

 

[JerseyBoiler]

Couch potato observation but it eels like there's been a big drop off in offense recently vs early season games. It seems the issue is not whether to play Gillis over Furst or Morton over Newman. Rather it's that our offense now is too predictable. Early in the season, guys were making their own shots and driving the lane. Not sure why that has basically stopped but it has. Now it's either Edey takes a two or kicks out for a three. We need more drives, layups and mid-range jumpers. With the rebounding we have, we will get a ton of second chance opportunities.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

I think Newman starting only works if they 1) run some sets to get him good looks and get going early and 2) he can miss a shot or make a mistake on defense without getting the hook immediately.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Couch potato observation but it eels like there's been a big drop off in offense recently vs early season games. It seems the issue is not whether to play Gillis over Furst or Morton over Newman. Rather it's that our offense now is too predictable. Early in the season, guys were making their own shots and driving the lane. Not sure why that has basically stopped but it has. Now it's either Edey takes a two or kicks out for a three. We need more drives, layups and mid-range jumpers. With the rebounding we have, we will get a ton of second chance opportunities.

Teams have more tape on Loyer and Smith. They aren’t taking anybody by surprise now.

 

[tjreese]

Lol, that's bs, fans will always question, regardless of how many FF's or NC's a coach achieves.

I do agree that it's fine for fans to question coaches. I suspect that a lot of the better questions being asked here are things that MP and staff are asking as well. There are plenty of others (sit Morton!) that MP would rightfully find laughable.

I have no doubt that coaches have considered a LOT more than fans on this or any site...and the coaches have a better feel by seeing the players daily. That said, the coaches have probably made their best guesses based upon what stats they have tempered by what they see in each Purdue player and their assessment of the opponent as a team and individual players.

Are they 100% right...never, but they are in the best position to know and make those decisions and are right more times than wrong. Even within the fan population on any team at every level there will be different understandings and levels of understandings and the Internet allows all those different understandings to be expressed.

That said, there would be no need for a forum to exist if nobody expressed what it was they felt, believed and/or understood.

 

[Gman544]

Agree with BoilerMakerP, Loyer and Smith snuck up on teams early. Now they are on film, scouted and taken as serious threats. They will figure it out,

 

[northside100]

Agree with BoilerMakerP, Loyer and Smith snuck up on teams early. Now they are on film, scouted and taken as serious threats. They will figure it out,

Loyer is still getting great looks, he's just struggling to hit them. Hopefully the second half last night is the start of a new trend for him.

 

[tjreese]

Loyer is still getting great looks, he's just struggling to hit them. Hopefully the second half last night is the start of a new trend for him.

His last that he made was his best look and I consider look not just having space, but with feet and time. He passed to Zach and his defender went to dig on the ball and Fletcher just stepped sideways behind the arc so the digger didn't know exactly where he was. This reduced the footwork on the shot since there was no turning and such and he had a lot more time.

What I don't know is how the defender (freshman???) went to dig on the ball? You want them to dig sideways on the ball where they keep an eye on the person they left if at all possible, because if you turn your body to go dig at the ball, you lose sight of the person you are suppose to defend. Then that person like Fletcher can step into an opening and the digger now has to find him which may be just enough time to get a nice shot. It would be interesting to rewatch (which I will) and see how the digger went to dig...

 

[TX4GB]

His last that he made was his best look and I consider look not just having space, but with feet and time. He passed to Zach and his defender went to dig on the ball and Fletcher just stepped sideways behind the arc so the digger didn't know exactly where he was. This reduced the footwork on the shot since there was no turning and such and he had a lot more time.

What I don't know is how the defender (freshman???) went to dig on the ball? You want them to dig sideways on the ball where they keep an eye on the person they left if at all possible, because if you turn your body to go dig at the ball, you lose sight of the person you are suppose to defend. Then that person like Fletcher can step into an opening and the digger now has to find him which may be just enough time to get a nice shot. It would be interesting to rewatch (which I will) and see how the digger went to dig...

Are you talking about Digger Phelps 😀?

 

[tjreese]

Are you talking about Digger Phelps 😀?

No digger had nothing to do with Purdue. Purdue was way too scary to play back when Gene was pleading for ND to play Purdue in a home and home. It was a risk/reward type thing...like IU not playing Butler many years ago. I'll watch the game in a bit again, but bet the digger did in fact turn his body away from Fletcher and that is why Fletcher had a really good look.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Loyer is still getting great looks, he's just struggling to hit them. Hopefully the second half last night is the start of a new trend for him.

Two games in a row, he's made a huge shot in the final minute.....one of them won the game, the other one could have. He's option 1A in that situation right now. Good to have an inside-outside threat in a down-to-the last possession scenario......especially when ZE is fully capable of knocking down FT's. Last night won't be the last time Purdue is in that scenario this season, IMO.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Are you talking about Digger Phelps 😀?

There would have been no roads for him to get there....plus, he's back-ordered on highlighters.